Log Mac Meeting 19 Jan 2007

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[22:01] paveljanik meeting starts?

[22:01] paveljanik ;-)

[22:01] ericb_ ok, let's go

[22:01] shaunmcdonald http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/MacOSXPortMeetings

[22:01] shaunmcdonald 1. Welcome new devs (if any)

[22:03] shaunmcdonald do we have any new developers or builders here? [22:03] audionuma well I'm a builder

[22:03] * mav_eric (n=mav_eric@xdsl-87-78-217-56.netcologne.de) has joined #ooo_macport

[22:04] audionuma for those who have not yet help me here

[22:04] shaunmcdonald audionuma: go ahead an give us a little introduction then :-)

[22:04] audionuma I've installed a PPC buildbot

[22:04] * mmeeks has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))

[22:04] audionuma it's available for those who need to do some builds

[22:04] audionuma i'll try to have it on line most of the time

[22:05] audionuma so don't hesitate to launch builds when it's idle

[22:05] ericb_ audionuma: who are you, where are you living ?

[22:05] * ericb_ curious :-)

[22:06] audionuma ericb_: remeber apple expo ?

[22:06] audionuma remember

[22:06] ericb_ audionuma: this is not for me

[22:06] audionuma i live in Paris suburb

[22:06] audionuma my job is in the sound recording/mixing for tv

[22:07] shaunmcdonald audionuma: you were at the Apple Expo?

[22:07] audionuma my knowledge in computer is purely self learning

[22:07] * shaunmcdonald was there for 2 half days

[22:07] * audionuma missed shaun at apple expo

[22:08] audionuma next step for me will be (I think) setting a bot for aqua builds

[22:09] ericb_ audionuma: great :-) bots are very important, thank you very much for your time, and your work

[22:09] audionuma I guess you that's the most significant I can tell

[22:09] shaunmcdonald audionuma: that is easy

[22:09] shaunmcdonald audionuma: my bot will build both

[22:09] audionuma one more thing : i some time run away from the chat cause I have two childs that need attention ;)

[22:10] * mav_eric needs to figure out why his Mac goes to sleep while the bot runs

[22:10] * shaunmcdonald has to remember to add --with-x to the config line for X11 builds

[22:10] shaunmcdonald mav_eric: what are your energy saver settings?

[22:10] * audionuma wonders why his mac never go to sleep since the bot is installed

[22:10] mav_eric shaunmcdonald: nothing changed since the last time the bot worked

[22:11] * shaunmcdonald often changes things, then finds that the change change actually affects the bot :-(

[22:13] * UweAlt (n=UweAlt@xdsl-87-78-249-20.netcologne.de) has joined #ooo_macport

[22:13] shaunmcdonald Hello UweAlt

[22:13] mav_eric shaunmcdonald: could be the case here too

[22:13] mav_eric I'll investigate on this

[22:13] ericb_ UweAlt: hello Uwe :-) [22:13] UweAlt Hi guys! Just listening.

[22:14] mav_eric Hi Uwe

[22:14] shaunmcdonald UweAlt: you have just missed audionuma introduce himself about the new PPC bot

[22:14] UweAlt That's ok. As you know, I'm not so conserned about buildung (just teh left thumbs on that):-/

[22:18] paveljanik next point?

[22:18] shaunmcdonald 2. Aqua News

[22:19] ericb_ no Aqua news ? :-)

[22:20] ericb_ ismael_: ? paveljanik ?

[22:20] mav_eric Moxed

[22:21] ericb_ Moxed: ?

[22:21] Moxed no news is good news ;)

[22:21] paveljanik nothing on my side.

[22:21] ismael_ i fixed the bug concerning transparency for images in contextual menus and toolbar

[22:21] paveljanik I'm buried with the release work

[22:21] paveljanik ismael_: good!

[22:21] ismael_ but there are still some issues in particular cases

[22:22] paveljanik ismael_: what was the problem?

[22:22] ismael_ paveljanik: there's still the bug with images that have an offset

[22:22] paveljanik ah

[22:22] ismael_ an X or Y position different from 0, like for new doc, or styles window

[22:23] ismael_ but i'm working on it

[22:23] Moxed ericb_: well actually one news, I had today the first successful launch of OOo Aqua. Pretty crashy, but at least I get to see it running.

[22:23] ericb_ Moxed: great. Using Carbon ?

[22:24] Moxed using aquavcl01 cws

[22:24] ericb_ Moxed: I got a workaround for some crashes

[22:24] ericb_ other news are :

[22:25] ericb_ Moxed did important cleanup in gdi part

[22:25] ericb_ I did some little changes in salframe too

[22:26] ericb_ and recently, I tried to fix libsalsystools issue

[22:27] Moxed ericb_: related to that, the implementation for parent/child windows is still very sketchy. We might have to emulate some parts of it, because Mac OS X does not fully support that X11/Win32 concept

[22:27] ericb_ now, locale works correctly, wizards work , no more crash with hyperlink wizard in some cases, you can save files (in writer), and open them again

[22:27] ericb_ Moxed: your knowledge is precious. Can you please give us more infos ?

[22:27] mav_eric ericb_: sounds quite "usable"

[22:28] Moxed ericb_: at least that's what native GTK and Mozilla has done on Mac OS X

[22:28] ericb_ mav_eric: sort of, but redraw/bit split and fonts are neded

[22:28] ericb_ Moxed: rewrite a complete binding ?

[22:28] Moxed ericb_: well that stuff is written on the wiki page: "Comparison of toolkits..." that I wrote

[22:28] mav_eric ericb_: yes sure that's why I used the quotation marks

[22:29] ericb_ mav_eric: but the work is well delimited now. Not unknown like before the Hamburger meeting

[22:29] ericb_ Moxed: thanks

[22:30] ericb_ Moxed: I'll have a deeper look, but I think this is your playground, isn't it ?

[22:30] Moxed ericb_: well, I'll only work on implementation if it's needed for canvas or avmedia... And no guarantees on the timeframe

[22:31] ericb_ Another intersting news : Moxed wrote a lot of infos about Native SpellChecking

[22:31] ericb_ Moxed: thanks

[22:32] ericb_ paveljanik: If I remember correctly, you fixed a lot of warnings in sal and other modules

[22:33] ericb_ this is hidden work, but very difficult and never obvious

[22:33] paveljanik yes, I'll add moer about WaE later today once we finish Aqua news ;-)

[22:33] ericb_ paveljanik: ok, sorry

[22:34] ericb_ other aqua news ?

[22:34] UweAlt Another news - although not technical: Erics interview "2007, lanne dOpenOffice ?" has been translated to german and published by macnews.de on http://www.macnews.de/index.php?_mcnpage=96817 within just one day. It seems people are very interested on this issue - at least in germany:).

[22:34] ericb_ The link for Moxed work : http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Porting_-_Native_Spellchecking

[22:36] UweAlt ...and in a very prominent place as "News of he day"

[22:37] ericb_ FYI, one designer (this is his job) contacted me and proposed to realize a complete iconset for the mac port. I'll meet him at Solutions Linux Expo next week

[22:37] ericb_ UweAlt: thanks

[22:38] shaunmcdonald UweAlt: I have to agree that people are interested in "openoffice aqua", as that is the single most search term that lands people on my blog

[22:39] UweAlt perhaps we need a marketing department (besides Ericb-) :))

[22:39] audionuma UweAlt: and openoffice aqua was a great concern of visitors to paris Apple Expo

[22:39] Moxed uwealt: I hope the designer is aware of how many icons there are in OOo. It's several hundreds... Very huge work [22:40] ericb_ Moxed: I forgot to mention 2 students will contribute too

[22:40] ericb_ Moxed: this is a professional, just willing to do something for free. Wait and see

[22:40] mav_eric Moxed

[22:40] Moxed uwealt: Of course, we can also borrow most of the icons from crystal or some other set, and then redo only the most important ones

[22:41] UweAlt moxed: it's ericb_ who knows the designer

[22:41] Moxed sorry ericb_

[22:41] Moxed not uwe...

[22:41] ericb_ I proposed him to start with Jim Mac ( alias Jakob Steiner ) icons, under LGPL

[22:42] ericb_ as starting point

[22:42] Moxed ericb_: yes, that's good.

[22:42] ericb_ Moxed: tango icons, if I remember correctly

[22:43] cloph s/Jakob/Jakub/

[22:43] ericb_ cloph: thank you, I was not sure :)

[22:44] audionuma you mean these : http://jimmac.musichall.cz/openoffice-icons.php

[22:44] cloph Thjis is the industrial theme.

[22:44] ericb_ audionuma: I have not exxactly the same link : http://jimmac.musichall.cz/i.php?i=Tango-OOo

[22:45] ericb_ Next point ?

[22:45] ericb_ paveljanik: ?

[22:46] paveljanik I can say something about WaE aka Warnings Are Errors builds.

[22:46] ericb_ paveljanik: +1

[22:46] paveljanik Last year the work on WaE began.

[22:47] paveljanik Sb did many patches/fixes in warnings% cwses.

[22:47] paveljanik I took his work and fixed all modules for unxmacxp and unxmacxi.

[22:47] paveljanik Starting from m200, we are on the same line as other major platforms.

[22:48] paveljanik I now have even patches for new modules that are not yet WaE clean even on these platforms.

[22:48] paveljanik the only problematic pieces are:

[22:48] paveljanik autodoc (#i70664#, wating for proper patch)

[22:48] paveljanik sal - #i73520# waiting for review

[22:48] IZBot porting DEFECT NEW sal/osl/unx/socket.c: prevent warnings on Mac OS X, clean socklen_t mess http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/ show_bug.cgi?id=73520

[22:49] paveljanik vcl is WaE clean in vcl72, it is still not clean in aquavcl01 and I won't invest my time into this work yet ;-)

[22:49] paveljanik And that is all - if you want to try it, just add --enable-werror to your configure line.

[22:49] paveljanik BTW - buildbots - I'd be interested in your results :-)

[22:50] ericb_ paveljanik: FYI, I fixed some warnings in vcl, and Moxed helped too

[22:50] ericb_ paveljanik: I know how this is difficult, and I want to say you a big thank you

[22:50] ericb_ paveljanik: you did a great work

[22:51] mav_eric paveljanik: first I see if I can finish an aquabuild with my buildbot

[22:51] mav_eric paveljanik: afterwards I see what I can do

[22:53] paveljanik mav_eric: ok, start with m200, not before.

[22:53] paveljanik Thanks.

[22:53] cloph ericb_: Did you have time to give panthertest_2 build a try already?

[22:53] mav_eric paveljanik: o.k.

[22:53] * audionuma couldn't build m20

[22:54] ericb_ cloph: not yes, sorry. Download is completed, but I stopped there. ASAP, I'll test

[22:55] ericb_ Questions about WaE ?

[22:55] audionuma http://buildbot.go-oo.org/MacPort3/builds/8

[22:55] ericb_ audionuma: good ;-)

[22:55] ericb_ Next point ?

[22:56] ericb_ Urgent tasks in native port : presentation of the Top 10 of bugs to be fixed, before a public release

[22:56] shaunmcdonald audionuma: m200 is not available yet

[22:58] ericb_ since some times, we did important progress with Aqua version, and people want to know where we are

[22:59] ericb_ it's not question to propose something immediately

[22:59] ericb_ but sionce we have a serious todo list, we can define objectives

[23:00] ericb_ and I propose to provide a public version once the 10 most important bugs/missing functions are fixed/implemented

[23:01] ericb_ to complete, I propose to communicate, and Eric Hoch and Shaun presents here will help me to prepare, in respectively german, english and french, a description of issues, in simple words

[23:01] ericb_ easely understandable

[23:01] shaunmcdonald ericb_: +1

[23:02] ericb_ in parallel, I have asked to create a keyword " aqua " , to identify those 10 most important bugs/mess

[23:02] ericb_ for every one issue will be created, and fixed the same way as we do for usual issues

[23:03] shaunmcdonald there are other options to using a keyword

[23:03] ericb_ once done, we could package an aqua version, as alpha, saying this is a techincal preview ( or something close), and explaining, it is not complete nor functionnal

[23:03] shaunmcdonald such as a new subcomponent to porting project

[23:04] shaunmcdonald or "[aqua]" in the subject line

[23:05] ericb_ shaunmcdonald: why not. the idea, is to provide a simple url, giving *all* concerned issues to the peopl who wants to have a look

[23:05] shaunmcdonald ericb_: either way we can provide the url

[23:06] shaunmcdonald ericb_: the problem with keywords is that they are meant to be project wide

[23:06] ismael_ and why not doing a wiki page?

[23:07] ismael_ with a link to the 10 issues

[23:07] ericb_ shaunmcdonald: yes, indeed. But Mac OS X port becomes a major port, and desserves it somewhere

[23:08] ericb_ For the record , I'll provide you the list of the Top 10 bugs/issues :

[23:08] cloph ismael_: A page need maintenance, an url does not...

[23:08] ericb_ 1) redrawing/refresh

[23:08] ericb_ this is the first thing you see when you start Aqua version

[23:08] ericb_ workaround : resize the main window

[23:08] ericb_ 2) missing fonts

[23:08] ericb_ IMHO the most important mess

[23:09] ericb_ multi line salllayout is not implemented, methods are missing, fonts paramters are not found ..etc

[23:09] ericb_ a lot of work has to be done here

[23:09] ericb_ 3) missing cursor

[23:10] ericb_ There is no cursor

[23:10] ericb_ and I'll do some tests

[23:11] ericb_ sorry : I found some infos in the API, and I'll do some tests

[23:11] ericb_ 4) Calc not working

[23:11] ericb_ some pending pointer, or something missing causes instant crashes when launching Calc

[23:12] ericb_ 5) Tips causing crashes

[23:12] ericb_ move the mouse over the main toolbar : tips will appear, but won't be deleted

[23:12] ericb_ after some times -> crash

[23:13] ericb_ very annoying issue, for dakr reasons

[23:13] ismael_ good night all

[23:13] ericb_ ismael_: good night

[23:13] ericb_ 6) bit split :

[23:14] ericb_ when you scroll a list with a scrollbar, they are two parts: one modified (what does appear), and one fixed

[23:14] * ismael_ has quit ()

[23:14] ericb_ the fixed part is not cached, and is not displayed => missing

[23:14] ericb_ Ismael is working on that part

[23:14] ericb_ 7) some instant crashes with new documents

[23:15] * Moxed has quit ("It's a wonderful world out there, I'll go exploring...")

[23:16] ericb_ 8) libsalsystools causing locale not correctly seen : this leads to several issues, like wizards not working, save document created not possible, wizard crashing ...etc

[23:17] ericb_ I think I have fixed that, and Oliver Braun will do a better change, more clean than mine, later

[23:17] ericb_ this is issue 69373

[23:17] IZBot porting PATCH NEW soffice.bin does not launch without script http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=69373

[23:17] ericb_ 9)

[23:17] ericb_ the tree must be modified, to repect Apple Bundle organization

[23:18] ericb_ Oliver told us this is ~ a 2 hours work , IMHO, mainly in scp2, but I can be wrong

[23:19] ericb_ 10 ) complete keyboard implementation : some keys, accented chars are missing

[23:19] * dave_largo has quit ("Client exiting")

[23:19] ericb_ That's all for top 10

[23:20] ericb_ Important points:

[23:20] cloph ericb_ With point 9) is meant to automate the stuff that is explained in the wiki?

[23:20] cloph (moving the stuff from program to the MacOS folder and stuff?)

[23:20] ericb_ cloph: no, I don't think so : just modify the tree in scp2/source/ooo/*.scp

[23:21] cloph ericb_: You got me wrong..

[23:21] ericb_ cloph: X11 version should not suffer from that change

[23:21] ericb_ cloph: sorry ?

[23:21] cloph I meant with the changes in the code you get the same as if you applied the steps to the build as it is now?

[23:21] cloph Or are there other things involved?

[23:22] ericb_ cloph: this is more complicated : two things are needed 1) correct tree in the bundle 2) fix libsalsystools.dylib, not working at all

[23:22] cloph But that's point 8), isn't it?

[23:23] ericb_ cloph: point 8 is one of the two conditions

[23:24] ericb_ cloph: point 8 caused wizard not working, macosxrc.txt not found, some instant crashes .. etc , even with correct tree (using Pavel script)

[23:24] ericb_ Last points :

[23:24] cloph So correct tree = that what you get when you manually apply the stuff from the wiki. That's what I wanted to know :-)

[23:25] ericb_ cloph: yes, it is :-)

[23:25] ericb_ cloph: to make short : workaround for point 8 was place libsalsystoools.dilyb in / dir

[23:25] ericb_ cloph: same for macosxrc.txt

[23:25] cloph / of the bundle?

[23:26] cloph or global / ?

[23:26] ericb_ I forgot to mention in Aqua news I have implemented UpdateSettings()

[23:26] ericb_ cloph: global

[23:26] ericb_ cloph: annoying, no ? :-)

[23:26] cloph Yeah - and kind of unexpected :-)

[23:26] ericb_ cloph: now it works

[23:27] ericb_ cloph: what is failing, is " ~ " in the path. Not figured out why it does not work yet

[23:27] ericb_ cloph: e.g. hardcoding macosxrc.txt path, UpdateSettings() works

[23:27] ericb_ cloph: and the config file can be read

[23:28] ericb_ I return to last points :

[23:28] ericb_ Native FilePicker works on Aqua (filters are still missing)

[23:28] ericb_ Florian wrote me the info today

[23:29] ericb_ I have found information on how extract global preferences

[23:29] ericb_ e.g. for scrollbars : arrows together or separated -> can be modified in System Preferences

[23:30] ericb_ I already consider that for native controls implementation

[23:30] ericb_ what could help, is define what exactly we could put in a dedicated preferences file, like , e.g. we already to for macosxrc.txt

[23:31] ericb_ Last but not least: Vijay is actively working on Drag and Drop

[23:31] ericb_ I hope I forgot nothing :-)

[23:32] <ericb_> questions ?

[23:32] <ericb_> objections ?

[23:33] <UweAlt> Just for fun: As you know I'm working on a modification of the readme-file delivered with OOo. Can/Shall we introduce there a new option in .dtd-file like < gui: aqua> (or whatever the build parameter is) and some text like "This is ALPHA!" to have a seperate Mac-Aqa-readme-section in the near future?

[23:33] <ericb_> UweAlt: good question ..

[23:33] <shaunmcdonald> UweAlt: that is a good idea

[23:34] <shaunmcdonald> UweAlt: paveljanik has said that there is no time to get it integrated for the next release due to the fact that it needs translation

[23:35] <UweAlt> so we have got some time :-/

[23:36] <ericb_> Misc infos ?

[23:37] <audionuma> ericb_: there's an opportunity to have a news on macbidouille from a friend of mine

[23:37] <ericb_> audionuma: good !

[23:37] <ericb_> audionuma: for some reasons :-)

[23:37] <audionuma> ericb_: the pretext would be the bots

[23:37] <ericb_> audionuma: ah

[23:38] <ericb_> audionuma: thank you in advance anyway

[23:38] <audionuma> ericb_: but I suggested that we put a call to devs

[23:38] <ericb_> audionuma: +1

[23:38] <ericb_> audionuma: with Carbon / Quartz /QuickTime knowledge

[23:38] <audionuma> ericb_: can you send me a brief description besides C++/Aqua knowledge ?

[23:39] <audionuma> ericb_: about 50000 potential readers

[23:39] <ericb_> audionuma: this is simple : Carbon API is enough

[23:39] <ericb_> audionuma: Quartz too

[23:40] <ericb_> audionuma: learn the API is not difficult for a good dev

[23:40] <mav_eric> ericb_: same here in germany - a journalist I helped with OOo offered me his help

[23:40] <ericb_> mav_eric: good !

[23:40] <ericb_> mav_eric: what about invite him for a meeting ?

[23:40] <mav_eric> ericb_: so we can "make a call for devs" simultaniously

[23:41] <mav_eric> ericb_: why not?

[23:41] <ericb_> mav_eric: +1

[23:41] <mav_eric> ericb_: I'll ask him.

[23:41] <ericb_> mav_eric: thanks !

[23:41] <ericb_> FYI, Christophe Laporte contacted me again today. I'll try to meet him at Solutions Linux Expo

[23:42] <ericb_> He's is macgeneration director (not sure of the word)

[23:44] <ericb_> Next important events where I'll be present are : Solution Linux Expo ( Paris) / FOSDEM ( Bruxelles ), and I'll blog about that soon

[23:45] <ericb_> other questions ?

[23:45] <ericb_> Next meeting : 26th January , same hour ?

[23:47] <ericb_> ok, time to stop

[23:47] <obr> good night

[23:47] <ericb_> see you soon

[23:47] * obr (n=olli@c132051.adsl.hansenet.de) has left #ooo_macport

[23:47] <ericb_> and good night

[23:47] <audionuma> bye to all

[23:47] <mav_eric> ericb_: I don't know if I can be there for sure now but I try to

[23:47] <audionuma> good night

[23:48] * audionuma has quit ()

[23:48] <ericb_> mav_eric: no problem

[23:48] <mav_eric> ericb_: if there would be something important about the top ten let me know otherwise the log is available

[23:48] <ericb_> mav_eric: shaunmcdonald I'll contact you two, to prepare the communication about "you want to test it .."

[23:48] <ericb_> mav_eric: sure

[23:48] <mav_eric> ericb_: O.K.

[23:48] <shaunmcdonald> ericb_: great

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