Community Council Log 20091217
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IRC Log of Community Council Meeting 2009-12-17
Attendees
- Christoph Noack (christoph_n)
- Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_)
- Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
- Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
- Louis Suarez-Potts (louis_to)
- Charles-H. Schulz (southerncross)
- John McCreesh (jpmcc)
- Stefan Taxhet (stx12) (present for latter half)
Absent
- Juergen Schmidt (jsc)
- Pavel Janik (paveljanik)
- Time recorded is Eastern Standard Time, -05:00 UTC
[14:43:58] louis_to Let's start [14:44:01] southerncross thanks [14:44:05] louis_to The agenda is at: [14:44:14] louis_to http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/The_OpenOffice.org_Community_Council_Agenda [14:44:31] louis_to Please look it over now and read your AIs, etc., if you have not done so already [14:44:39] louis_to meanwhile, I'll cringe in guilt for all those I have not done [14:45:24] louis_to if we are all familiar with the agenda, then let's get going [14:45:44] louis_to terminus time is set for 1.5 hours from 16:30 uTC [14:45:56] *** CorNouws has left the channel () [14:46:11] louis_to I assume we approve the AIs from last meeting as shown? [14:46:17] * southerncross nods [14:46:18] * stx12 thinks uTC is 3 hours before UTC ;-) [14:46:35] louis_to then .. 2: AI is Louis: prepare a wiki page with events for budget planning. [14:46:46] louis_to ah, right :-) [14:46:54] louis_to 18:30, I meant [14:47:08] jpmcc or even 19:30 UTC [14:47:17] *** CorNouws (n=cono@a80-101-151-17.adsl.xs4all.nl) has joined the channel [14:47:23] louis_to whoops :-/ [14:47:38] * louis_to notes he's been up a long, long time today [14:47:43] southerncross that's what stuck me in this strange time conundrum [14:47:48] louis_to so, I have not done my AI [14:48:10] louis_to however, I should be able to do it this weekend, as I finally have some free time and a stomach for it [14:48:22] jpmcc despite the octopus [14:48:32] stx12 i'm going to restart the introduction of the TM policy tomorrow - literally. [14:48:36] louis_to so, in process (btw, are we keen on using a wiki for AIs?) [14:48:42] christoph_n (John, at least he is back in the ocean.) [14:48:51] jpmcc :-) [14:49:03] louis_to stx12: :-) (my tomorrow's are mexican?: Mañana) [14:49:11] southerncross yes it's very practical [14:49:40] louis_to 3.0 ST indicates he'll start Friday discussions again [14:49:47] louis_to 4.0 [14:49:49] stx12 no, it means this friday; the picture becomes more concrete with all the necessary parts. [14:50:16] louis_to 4.1: done [14:50:22] louis_to 4.2: Done [14:50:42] louis_to 4.3: that was put on hold until after holidays, viz., post 6 jan [14:50:42] _Nesshof_ 5.1 open [14:51:10] louis_to 4.4: not doine. I suggest we do it for next meeting, when there should be more people around, too [14:51:41] louis_to 5.1, as _Nesshof_said, open [14:52:02] louis_to 5.2; Winter of code: Cor, who is workign with you on this? [14:52:13] CorNouws alas did not find time for that. But it is holiday soon.. [14:52:27] louis_to that's okay but I'd like to know who all is committed to this [14:52:33] CorNouws And if I have questions, Juergen for sure will help, and Stefan, and .. [14:52:35] louis_to eg, Juergen? Stefan? Martin [14:52:48] CorNouws ;-) [14:52:51] louis_to okay, thanks. I'd like to be inclued, too [14:53:01] CorNouws thanks, will do so [14:53:03] louis_to included, I mean, as my update with Seneca might include [14:53:06] louis_to this element [14:53:08] louis_to thanks [14:53:19] louis_to so, 5.2 Open [14:53:33] louis_to 6.0: Distribution infrastructure (Bouncer); Wait for results of testing (prepared by Florian) - MirrorBrain looks like a good replacement for Bouncer but MI needs sorting. AI: John to talk to Florian to see if we should hire someone to develop the MI [14:53:34] jpmcc 6. We are on target to use MB for 3.2 [14:53:46] louis_to great! [14:53:52] * mhu does not understand "MI" [14:53:57] louis_to that will allow us to track with more granularity [14:53:58] louis_to ? [14:54:06] jpmcc Management Information [14:54:20] mhu jpmcc: ah okay thanks [14:54:20] stx12 mirrorbrain = mb ; mi = stats [14:54:25] christoph_n (Thanks!) [14:54:40] jpmcc MI = http://marketing.openoffice.org/marketing_bouncer.html [14:54:49] louis_to thanks indeed! [14:55:22] louis_to btw, I'd like to propose that the CC publicly thank the volunteer mirrors on the release of 3.2 for 9 plus years of heroic work [14:55:47] christoph_n Good idea! [14:56:07] stx12 including and esp. osuosl [14:56:11] louis_to yes [14:56:22] mhu +1 [14:56:40] louis_to most people just don't realize that OOo is brought to them by volunteer mirror services.... not by Sun mirrors [14:56:43] mhu ...i.e. good idea, indeed [14:56:48] jpmcc Remind me to put something in the announce@ posting for 3.2 [14:56:52] louis_to thanks [14:56:53] christoph_n (A question for later: Is this something for the "improved communication effort"? E.g. blog?) [14:57:02] * southerncross nods in agreement [14:58:00] louis_to AiI: jpmcc: To place a loud thanks to the volunteer mirrors, esp. OSUOSL, for their long and heroic work over the last 9 plus years making OOo in all its many languages and versions available to the world's billions [14:58:27] louis_to this thanks to be in the announce@ for 3.2 [14:58:45] louis_to christoph_n: it could be, as there are no specific bounaries here [14:58:53] louis_to boundaries, that is [14:59:14] louis_to and the rule is: if it is of interest to you, with your OOO hat on, then it is likely to be of interest to others in OOo, too [14:59:38] louis_to so, moving on to 7.0 [14:59:41] CorNouws Pootle infra: I promised to hold contact with André Schnabel on that. So will contact him soon. [14:59:46] stx12 7. there is a new pootle version available; update is planned for beginning 2010 ; i have no concrete date [14:59:59] louis_to thanks [15:00:06] louis_to 8.0.... [15:00:11] louis_to not done [15:00:12] stx12 for the second part (tools evaluation) we found no owner in orvieto [15:00:13] louis_to open [15:00:22] louis_to I was going to wonder about that [15:00:32] louis_to cna I suggest someone then like sankarshan? [15:00:45] CorNouws Yes, André for the software wishes in area of l10n [15:00:47] louis_to has anyone asked? he used to be in charge of the indic localizations for Red hat [15:00:54] louis_to in India [15:01:18] louis_to or, possibly Dwayne Bailey? [15:01:28] stx12 it should be an active member of the localization teams using pootle today... [15:01:42] CorNouws Shall I ask André first, as agreed (afair) [15:01:44] louis_to I think both do but were not at Orvieto, though in times past they have been [15:01:51] stx12 CorNouws: yes [15:02:12] louis_to AI: CorNouws: to ask André about owning the pootle AI [15:02:44] louis_to Anyway, to return to historical failure: 8.0: not done, open [15:03:05] louis_to same with 9.0: open [15:03:18] louis_to that takes us to 10.0: [15:03:30] louis_to 1. Budget 2010: AI: all budget holders to submit their requests for a share of this 100k. See proposal from Matthias [1] [15:03:53] jpmcc Maybe we should agree that if an AI is not done within a certain time another CC member picks it up? [15:04:10] louis_to jpmcc: that sounds reasonable [15:04:17] louis_to but let's finish this agenda first, no? [15:04:26] jpmcc louis_to: of course [15:04:26] louis_to so, the message that 10 points to is: [15:04:27] louis_to http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2324 [15:04:31] stx12 that's not really a motiviation to get my items done ;-) [15:04:45] louis_to scots love shame? :-) [15:04:47] mhu has anyone recognized that I could only think of 95K, not the full 100K ? So, we should probably go over my proposal, and see if all fits [15:04:55] * stx12 sits back and waits... [15:04:59] christoph_n Still, there is point 11 :-) [15:04:59] christoph_n (To bother the AI owners) [15:05:31] louis_to please, let's go over the post by mhu and critique it, if need be [15:05:33] stx12 christoph_n qualified in this moment.... [15:05:51] * christoph_n shudders :-) [15:06:11] louis_to where are we with 10? [15:06:31] jpmcc I have not done anything for the MP Budget yet [15:06:44] louis_to nor I with my bucket [15:06:48] * mhu has not yet heard any complaints [15:06:53] CorNouws jpmcc: Should we ask reservattion of the 5k extra for marketing? We talk about some 2010 plans atm ... [15:07:11] southerncross I might have a question about the category "other marketing" [15:07:24] mhu yes ? [15:07:28] stx12 the first step is to agree on mhu's grouping.,, [15:07:36] southerncross I am not discussing the sum proposed, but I'm merely asking the question of control and oversight. [15:08:03] mhu go ahead charles [15:08:21] southerncross by this I mean, who makes the decisions and do we have guidelines for this. Specifically, I understand this "other marketing" concerns for a great part the NLC [15:08:36] southerncross we have seen a growth recently of budget requests [15:08:53] southerncross which is good on the one hand because it shows people are moving and doing things locally [15:08:56] mhu jpmcc ? do you want to answer ? [15:09:03] southerncross but controls might be necessary [15:09:12] southerncross without blocking every initiative of course [15:09:51] jpmcc All the MP funding has to be discussed on dev@marketing or marcon@ and then approved by me plus one of Cor, Italo, and Florian. It seems to work ok so far [15:10:14] mhu indeed, I also think it worked quite good [15:10:35] stx12 southerncross: the general workflow is descibed here: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Funding_And_Budgets [15:10:48] * southerncross nods [15:11:00] jpmcc We seem to be the only budget holders who are actively spending their funding ;-) [15:11:08] mhu yes :-) [15:11:10] southerncross I would like to be included in the group, as an advisor [15:11:21] * southerncross smiles [15:11:31] CorNouws southerncross: but since we are still learning to spend wisely, pls let'sll keep eyes and ears open [15:11:59] southerncross CorNouws: yes my point was that we should not fall into traps [15:12:02] jpmcc southerncross: are you a MarCon? [15:12:05] southerncross yes [15:12:11] southerncross a MarCon of France [15:12:15] southerncross :-) [15:12:18] jpmcc OK, then you qualify ;-) [15:12:31] southerncross oh, low barriers of entry I see :-) [15:13:20] jpmcc southerncross: you also have to respond to emails and turn up to meetings on the right day ;-) [15:13:33] southerncross okay I can try to do that [15:13:51] southerncross once I'll figure out why marcon emails never reach me these days :( [15:14:33] * stx12 thinks the first step is to decide for 1 address ;-) [15:14:49] southerncross oh but it is decided [15:14:59] southerncross the good old one at laposte [15:15:07] stx12 don't worry - just kidding... [15:15:12] louis_to jpmcc: regarding spending: I have simply forgotten to send t mhu the bill for all the costs incurred and approved [15:15:12] jpmcc louis_to: please call us to order... [15:15:16] louis_to order! [15:15:23] louis_to 11.0 [15:15:25] stx12 last order already? [15:15:28] louis_to yes [15:15:55] louis_to but then there is the new business we should discuss relating to education project and also a quick, if posisble, roundtable for next year agenda items [15:15:56] stx12 let's talk about 12. first? what are your plans for deb 4/4 2010? [15:16:05] * mhu still has louis expenses of 1800 euros on the radar, and hopes louis has so too [15:16:08] stx12 let's talk about 12. first? what are your plans for feb 4/5 2010? [15:16:18] louis_to mhu: I do [15:16:25] louis_to so does, more importantly, my wife [15:16:48] louis_to stx12: my plans are zero unless I get funded to go to wherever [15:16:53] mhu :-) [15:16:59] southerncross I still have to see what's going on with our budget [15:17:13] southerncross but if I can I will come [15:17:20] southerncross and perhaps bring Melissa with me [15:17:21] stx12 i don't have problems to spend your gengeral admin money for that. please ask your advisors. [15:17:27] louis_to proposal: that the CC fund a trip for members to go to morocco for f2f [15:17:27] * mhu has introduced a new budget to be used for f2f meetings ... [15:17:32] louis_to :-0 [15:17:56] southerncross oh... [15:18:01] christoph_n If we talk about 12 (f2f), then Hamburg is fine for me. More fish to come... :-) [15:18:29] mhu ...yes, I meant the Common/Admin budget [15:18:34] louis_to I note that the proposed date is just before fosdem [15:18:39] stx12 seriously; it would be great to see you all in hamburg and i think support for travelling would b ewell sepnt... [15:18:56] stx12 louis_to: yes, intentionally [15:18:59] * southerncross nods [15:19:15] louis_to in that case, it becomes more legitimate, I think [15:19:43] CorNouws stx12: prevented we have a well prepared agenda ... [15:19:57] jpmcc CorNouws: +1 [15:19:57] louis_to so, proposal: that funds be made available for a f2f in Hamburg prior to fosdem [15:20:03] * christoph_n thinks Cor is right [15:20:18] louis_to yes, that is required, else it's a waste of tiem [15:20:20] louis_to and money [15:20:30] louis_to so, let's work on that..... [15:20:36] stx12 CorNouws: do i hear a volunteer for the preparation of the agnda? [15:20:56] louis_to but are all agreed for a f2f, subsidized as needed by the CC, in Hamburg prior to fosdem? [15:21:14] mhu yes [15:21:15] CorNouws stx12: I thought abpout that, but would feel embarassed if I walk in front of our junior concil coordinator ;-) [15:21:32] * louis_to is rollilng on the ground laughing [15:21:40] stx12 CorNouws: no problem, it will encuorage my sucessor [15:22:02] louis_to please, are we agreed for the f2f? [15:22:05] southerncross yes [15:22:06] louis_to +1 [15:22:10] christoph_n louis_to: Is there any dependence wrt to fosdem? [15:22:12] stx12 louis_to: yes [15:22:15] mhu yes (again) [15:22:15] christoph_n yep [15:22:18] CorNouws hmm, maybe we can do a good job otgether ;-) [15:22:25] louis_to yes: if possible we can do fosdem [15:22:33] CorNouws of course [15:22:35] louis_to but fosdem big expense is the hotel [15:22:35] stx12 CorNouws: fine with me [15:22:47] jpmcc My wife will not allow me to accept any meetings in February unless we have successfully moved house in January :-( [15:23:00] christoph_n John: Go go go! :-) [15:23:04] CorNouws jpmcc: also looking for volunteers? [15:23:13] southerncross it seems spouses are now influencing this project more and more... [15:23:15] louis_to burn the house down? [15:23:16] stx12 jpmcc: what cna we do to move you abd your wife ;-) [15:23:26] louis_to southerncross: let this be a warning! [15:23:28] jpmcc CorNouws: No, just a house. [15:23:42] southerncross lol [15:24:10] louis_to so, we are agreed. [15:24:18] louis_to that means that we really must look to cheap flights as soon as possible [15:24:25] stx12 ok, at least we agree that we will start the planning and travel arrangements... [15:24:26] louis_to ST: will you arrange lodging? [15:24:53] louis_to or shall we act on our own? there are some rather good deals right now, in Hamburg--winter, you know--- [15:24:55] stx12 louis_to: hotel recommendations? yes [15:25:12] louis_to I'll send some recommendations courtesy of my spouse :-) [15:25:17] mhu junges hotel, as usual ? [15:25:26] stx12 louis_to: hm, you are better informed that me; i guess sabine will support us... [15:25:28] southerncross junges hotel? [15:25:31] louis_to No: I can do better than that [15:25:48] louis_to I'd like to propose a new item: [15:25:49] _Nesshof_ btw, at the same time we want to do ESC meeting as well [15:25:51] louis_to we discussed this last time [15:26:02] louis_to #13: Education Project [15:26:25] louis_to Juergen is not here, but I'd like for us to discuss, possible offlist, for privacy reasons and so we do not offend, the Education project's direction and leadership [15:26:29] mhu southerncross: "Junges Hotel" is nearby and not so expensive, Louis was there in the past iirc [15:26:31] louis_to and see what we can do [15:26:38] louis_to folks, this is serious [15:26:41] southerncross ok [15:26:41] stx12 louis_to: if you have something you prefer over junges hotel, then let us know (by email) [15:26:47] louis_to please, let's focus on agenda [15:26:53] louis_to and outside of agenda items [15:27:04] louis_to in this case, I propose the Education Project issue [15:27:22] louis_to we have discussed previously it has problems: OOo4kids linkage, for instance [15:27:41] louis_to and the fact that the lead seems to alienate a lot of develoopers, arccording to reports [15:28:12] louis_to for this reason, we chose mentoring @ooo not mentoring at education [15:28:34] louis_to I am to talk to Alexandro tomrrow and will also see about communicating with Eric [15:28:37] mhu shall we leave this topic for the f2f meeting ? we could talk more clear then [15:28:41] louis_to but I would like for us to evaluate the issue [15:28:51] CorNouws we'll simpley have to talk and ask and investigate to see what is goning on [15:28:58] CorNouws and talk about it later [15:29:02] louis_to mhu: We can discuss it then, too, but there are some things that need to discuss sooner [15:29:06] louis_to adn Cor is correct [15:29:16] southerncross there might be another problem related to this [15:29:17] mhu fine with me, go ahead [15:29:25] louis_to so, I'd like tp propose we dsicuss this seriously adn evaluate options and so do some necessary research [15:29:41] southerncross which, is, in a word, code. [15:29:42] louis_to now is not the time, but it is the time to raise it as an issue that is of real importance [15:29:50] southerncross yes [15:30:44] louis_to So, I'd like to ask that we investigate the state of that project, and determine a course of action; not an indictiment, not an accusation but an evaluation [15:31:49] southerncross okay [15:31:59] southerncross and we do that.. at the f2f meeting? [15:32:35] louis_to yes,. I'll update the members, too [15:32:40] jpmcc southerncross: we need a volunteer to do some research before then [15:32:40] louis_to so, if nothing else.... [15:32:59] stx12 a quick heads up: infrastructure [15:33:02] louis_to I'll engage in it, but my issue is that I do not want to come across the only one [15:33:02] southerncross I can do that, provided no one raises an objection of partiality [15:33:16] southerncross I can help you with that louis [15:33:20] * stx12 oops, too early [15:33:20] CorNouws Yes, we mentioned energy supply in Orvieto. Anyone able to find some info on that? [15:33:21] louis_to southerncross: I would suggest someone else, too; you have some history here, as well [15:33:36] louis_to and I would suggest then that we ask CorNouws to referree any issues [15:33:50] CorNouws Not too urgent, yet important, cuase we use a lott, I suppose .. [15:33:54] * christoph_n thinks that does not know anything. Might that help? [15:34:11] louis_to yes; let's discuss then offlist for final points. [15:34:17] christoph_n okay... [15:34:35] stx12 christoph_n: at least you are not biased - i guess [15:34:39] louis_to CorNouws: I think that an announcemnt about our stance on energy policy to coincide with the end of Copenhagen might be just [15:35:01] jpmcc louis_to: Have we got one? [15:35:20] southerncross "more servers" [15:35:31] southerncross but we promess we won't overclock them [15:35:39] louis_to *That whenever possible to use green energy and to encourage the sustainable use of energy as with all things affecting the social and natural world.* [15:35:51] * stx12 was going to say something serious if we are done with edu... [15:35:57] louis_to instead of sustainable use of energy... [15:36:04] louis_to resources [15:36:23] louis_to stx12: we are done with edu; this is a delicate point and needs to be treated as such [15:36:40] stx12 louis_to: agreed... [15:36:42] louis_to I have nothing to add for the moment: up to you., stx [15:37:06] CorNouws louis_to: thanks for the suggestions. We can work on this further on the mail list, I think. [15:37:32] louis_to CorNouws: yes, you mean energy? But we ought to coincide it with Copenhagen, no? [15:37:33] jpmcc Another Dr.Louis pronouncement allegedly in the English language which I find difficult to comprehend... [15:37:38] louis_to :-) [15:37:52] * louis_to notes that working in law wrecked his syntax, too [15:38:06] CorNouws louis_to: no, not so ent IMO [15:38:23] jpmcc (fyi, there has been a discussion on dev@marketing about holding Virtual OOoCons) [15:38:23] louis_to ent? [15:38:31] CorNouws louis_to: not so urgent, IMO [15:38:45] louis_to jpmcc: the brazilians did a rather good one last year [15:39:02] louis_to CorNouws: okay, but a statement can gain more weight if linked, I think [15:39:30] * christoph_n thinks that some more life coverage would already help during the OOoCons [15:39:48] christoph_n life --> live [15:39:59] christoph_n :-) [15:40:02] louis_to :-0 [15:40:25] louis_to okay, lacking a firm proposal on this, I ask then that CorNouws come up with one? using the list [15:40:37] louis_to and that we conclude this meeting [15:40:46] stx12 we are starting the evaluation of an alternative infrastructure for the main site. i will notify the website project and invite interested people. you may want to look at kenai.com to become familiar with it. [15:40:46] * southerncross nods [15:40:52] christoph_n 11? [15:40:55] stx12 http://kenai.com/projects/ooo-migration/pages/Home [15:41:03] louis_to ah [15:41:05] CorNouws louis_to: yes, OK. I'm not looking for a statement, rather for action [15:41:37] stx12 just fyi [15:41:55] louis_to thanks; is the wiki membership open to all? [15:42:36] stx12 ? you may want to start with subscribing to the list... the wiki is public [15:42:42] stx12 you may want to start with subscribing to the list... the wiki is public [15:43:11] jpmcc stx12: thanks for the heads-up on kenai. Can we put it on the agenda for the next meeting? [15:44:06] stx12 sure, we could. but the work is going to happen in the website project... [15:44:40] christoph_n Basically, everone is "affected". So some basic information would be great, if there is enough time... [15:45:00] CorNouws off topic: Guys, I have to make a phonecall with someone else and cannot hanlde phone and IRC .. so have to leave. Sorry, but anythin important left for now? [15:45:01] * stx12 feels some pressure to blog... [15:45:27] christoph_n I think point 11, or did I miss that? [15:45:33] stx12 read the planet and stay tuned... [15:45:56] louis_to are all agreed to call this meeting closed? [15:45:59] * christoph_n thinks he will provide some comments from the UX point-of-view [15:46:16] stx12 christoph_n: good! [15:46:24] stx12 louis_to: yes [15:46:33] southerncross yes [15:46:38] mhu louis_to: I guess we're done [15:46:41] southerncross and ... I have to think about dinner [15:46:42] stx12 have a nice evening; and a nice call, CorNouws [15:46:43] christoph_n yep [15:46:49] southerncross have a nice evening everyone [15:46:50] louis_to thanks, all [15:46:56] CorNouws bye then all. See you later [15:46:57] louis_to meeting is adjourned
