Extensions/website/Minutes/2007-09/2007-09-13-IRCLogs

(10:02:10) jsc: good morning, i am the minute taker today :-)
(10:02:12) jsc: Quite easy with the logging feature. Anyway i will try to moderate the meeting a little bit.
(10:02:13) jsc: Agenda
(10:02:15) jsc: - action item
(10:02:16) jsc: - open discussion
(10:02:18) jsc: - ...
(10:02:23) matm: hi, Mathias Michel speaking
(10:02:53) jsc: 2_2007-8-16: ?
(10:03:22) stx12: hi mathias, we are walking through the minutes from last week: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Extensions/website/Minutes/2007-09
(10:03:49) stx12: make a picture of: How is the information flow on Extension Repository Site 	 MD/BH
(10:03:58) matm: ok, got it.
(10:04:15) mdamboldt: 2_2007-8-16: is still in progress, expect to finish it till next weeks meeting
(10:04:29) bettina-h [i=Bettina_@nat/sun/x-98aa50ac13becfcc] est entré dans le salon
(10:04:34) jsc: ok, next is 1_2007-8-23: ?
(10:04:43) matm: is there a draft which can be linked to the wiki or posted to the ML ?
(10:05:36) stx12: matm: i guess that's a question for mdamboldt wrt to the picture?
(10:05:51) mdamboldt: 1_2007-8-23: Also in progress, we have a virus scanner running within the file system, additional we are in progress to have a special scanning mechanism for incomming new extensions
(10:05:58) jsc: mdamboldt, more comments from you to the question from matm
(10:06:32) mdamboldt: matm: I will put a draft out by tomorrow.
(10:06:45) matm: okth
(10:06:49) matm: ok thanks
(10:07:12) SunNF a quitté le salon
(10:07:27) jsc: ok, more comments on 1_2007-8-23? Otherwise we move to 2_2007-8-23:
(10:07:29) SunNF [n=nf@sd-socks-197.staroffice.de] est entré dans le salon
(10:07:34) matm: ok, move
(10:07:46) mdamboldt: Regarding 1_2007-8-23, just got an information that the implementation of a special scanning module is done, some testing will be done now.
(10:08:18) jsc: anything else?
(10:08:40) mdamboldt: not on 1_2007-8-23
(10:09:27) b_osi: 2_2007-8-23: still in progress - But the stars are now  finally _below_ the teaser image :-)
(10:09:28) jsc: ok, 2_2007-8-23:?
(10:10:04) stx12: b_osi: congratulations :-)
(10:10:12) jsc: anything else to  2_2007-8-23
(10:10:23) b_osi: no.
(10:10:50) matm: yes
(10:11:10) matm: what about blank hole I notified in the layout ?
(10:11:23) matm: i didn't cjeck if it was solved
(10:11:29) matm: *check*
(10:11:38) b_osi: a little more specific?
(10:12:27) matm: i try to remember
(10:12:58) SunNF: btw, do we track issues within IZ, already?
(10:13:25) matm: ok, that was the old design with 2 columnin "by-OS" page; forget it.
(10:13:35) stx12: if we had issues, yes, in extensions/www, are there any?
(10:13:52) matm: But i have another issue with the "click here for more information"
(10:14:00) b_osi: havn't seen some since yesterday - I subscribed to it.
(10:14:35) matm: I started 3 topics about ui on the ML. Should I put all my remarks in IZ ?
(10:15:15) b_osi: aren't the questions not answered?
(10:15:26) bettina-h: Issues are very useful to track the progress.
(10:15:27) matm: or maybe we'll wait for the open discussion ?
(10:15:50) bettina-h: Yes, plaese, submit issues, i'll do it too.
(10:15:57) matm: answered: some are, other not;  but i still don't know if the fix was done :-)
(10:16:08) bettina-h: That's t!
(10:16:33) matm: ok, next AI, then.
(10:16:52) jsc: i think we can eay agree to use issue for tracking bugs and need no longe discussion, right!
(10:17:07) jsc: next is 3_2007-8-23:?
(10:17:09) jsc: slopez is not in the channel, does anybody else know something related this topic?
(10:17:13) matm: this one is quite generic: it should be "check progress against issues" IMO
(10:17:50) matm: talking about 2_2007-8-23
(10:17:59) mdamboldt: jsc: slopez is here according to my list
(10:18:00) jsc: mmh, i would like to see a more detailed spec or description how it should work or look like
(10:18:18) jsc: seems to be away ...
(10:18:47) matm: is laurent active? I see him logged
(10:19:06) jsc: no, he seems to be away as well
(10:19:13) mdamboldt: matm: He mentioned to join later today...
(10:20:39) jsc: ok, we probably got no news today. Anyway i will bring this in the extensions meeting that i plan next week during the conference
(10:21:05) mdamboldt: jsc: very good
(10:21:10) jsc: 1_2007-8-30: and 2_2007-8-30: both are postponed, any news or do we have due dates?
(10:22:09) stx12: let#s put due dates on the items to avoid that we discuss them every week...
(10:22:16) mdamboldt: jsc: Don't know about 1_2007-8-30. Jochen is struggeling with IRC connection right now, may be he joins later.
(10:22:23) matm: 2_2007-8-30: what are those tooltips?
(10:22:33) bettina-h: No due date. And concerning notification, I have no idea, what is meant by the AI.
(10:22:55) jl [n=chatzill@sd-socks-197.staroffice.de] est entré dans le salon
(10:23:28) jl: Hi this joachim lingner. Happy to be  here :)
(10:23:39) bettina-h: Hi
(10:24:00) mdamboldt: bettina-h: Wasn't it about the tooltips to show during mouse over of Extensions within the Extension Manager dialog to show more detailed informations?
(10:24:17) jsc: betina-h: i think it was related to the content of the tooltips. What exactly should be displayed and where it comes from, ...
(10:24:41) bettina-h: As for that per selection, yes. If that is also measnt with update notify.
(10:25:10) SunNF: 2_2007-8-30: Wasn't that the discussion about vendor id, release notes and how to display the corresponding URL's etc.
(10:25:26) jsc: we talked about a short description in the description.xml that comes with the oxt package. We agreed that we need some clear equirments waht would be useful and important
(10:25:39) bettina-h: We can try to get that done for target 2.4.
(10:25:46) jsc: Sun NF: that was part of the discussion a s well, yes
(10:25:52) mdamboldt: SunNF: right
(10:26:02) bettina-h: Yes, until now it does not show helpful content.
(10:26:37) mdamboldt: So due date for AI is within two weeks?
(10:26:41) stx12: bettina-h: 2.4 as target sounds good; any idea when we could have a draft of the spec?
(10:27:08) bettina-h: Next week?
(10:27:31) jsc: ok, any news from you jl to  1_2007-8-30:
(10:27:31) stx12: bettina-h: great!
(10:28:38) jl: Not yet.
(10:29:01) jsc: ok, should we put a due date on it?
(10:29:07) mdamboldt: jl: Is there already an issue written? Otherwise I would volunteer to write on.
(10:29:07) jl: No
(10:29:47) jl: I can write one
(10:29:56) mdamboldt: jl: Thanks
(10:29:56) jl: Or you if you like
(10:30:04) mdamboldt: ping pong :)
(10:30:56) jl: I'll do it.
(10:31:01) jsc: ok, issue sound good. I would suggest to remove it then from the AI list
(10:31:24) jsc: next is 3_2007-8-30:
(10:33:10) mdamboldt: jsc: And the status is? (your are the owner of that one)
(10:33:13) jsc: as mentioned last week i was in contact with laurent and he has started a new wiki page for the whole topic
(10:33:15) jsc: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Extensions/website/Translating
(10:33:17) jsc: But this page is currently far away from a detailed description how the workflow should be or how it should look like in detail.
(10:33:18) jsc: A lot of work is necessary to define all these things.
(10:33:20) olaf-f [i=chatzill@nat/sun/x-efe53a6a052524a3] est entré dans le salon
(10:33:35) jsc: typing takes some time ;-)
(10:34:24) jsc: i hope i can clarify some general questions next week ...
(10:34:38) jsc: nothing else from me to this AI
(10:34:48) jsc: next is 1_2007-9-06:
(10:34:55) b_osi: 1_2007_9_06: found a method - needs some more testing - in progress;
(10:35:41) b_osi: created wiki page, where the counting is explained - linked from the website wiki page: counting
(10:35:41) jsc: do you have already some ideas how we can present the data. Some nicne statistical pages  or so in the future?
(10:36:12) b_osi: current presentation just teh numbers below an extension release
(10:36:24) olaf-f: Sorry, for being late.
(10:36:41) SunNF: should we align this with the tracking stuff we do with the web pages? Is this possible?
(10:37:19) b_osi: tracking stuff?
(10:37:30) stx12: SunNF: yes, that makes sense; let me look with b_osi into this.
(10:37:37) jsc: sounds reasonable. I would really like to see some statistics about single extensions. I always like it for our NetBeans plugin ;-)
(10:37:59) SunNF: stx12: Thanks!
(10:38:04) stx12: jsc: is your netbeans plugin already submitted to ext.s.ooo?
(10:38:05) jsc: anything else for this AI
(10:38:21) ***stx12 SCNR
(10:38:23) jsc: no, i think t's the wrong place
(10:38:46) jsc: next is 2_2007-9-06:
(10:38:50) mdamboldt: Regarding 2_2007-9-06, I sent an email with detailed informations and some screenshots to Stella to ask for her assistance just yesterday. So it's in progress.
(10:39:07) jsc: ok, anything else
(10:39:14) mdamboldt: no
(10:39:17) jsc: next is 3_2007-9-06:
(10:39:21) b_osi: 3_2007_9_06: done;
(10:39:48) jsc: fine
(10:39:50) jsc: next is 4_2007-9-06:
(10:39:54) b_osi: 4_2007_9_06: done;
(10:39:59) bettina-h: As UX-representative I strongly demand to delete the duplicate 'By tag' as we show already the same content under 'Tags' / more tags.  We don't need duplicated functions in the user interface. Please take that out.
(10:40:44) b_osi: you should keep different access points for different user behaviour; I would keep it.
(10:40:58) stx12: bettina-h: let the site vitors decide; I will bring some numbers how often the links are used in 2 weeks
(10:41:08) bettina-h: No, the result is the same.
(10:41:11) stx12: s/vitors/visitors/
(10:41:27) jsc: i think the idea from stx12 sounds really good.
(10:41:49) bettina-h: I answered Bosi.
(10:42:53) jl: I prefer a simple user interface -> therefore no unnecessary duplication please
(10:43:05) jsc: bettina-h: it's your opinion ... we should try it, if the users don't like or don't use it we can remove it
(10:44:10) SunNF: I also like the idea to let visitors decide by taking a look to the numbers
(10:44:49) matm: for now taking the  numbers will be wrong: the Tags pad is unviewable directly without scrolling
(10:44:59) matm: s/pad/panel/
(10:45:47) mdamboldt: matm: Don't see that as an issue.
(10:46:01) stx12: matm: looks fine here (1400x1050)
(10:46:16) matm: What do you prefer: one-click or a scroll+one click ?
(10:46:33) matm: try it with "standard" res: 1024x768
(10:46:48) b_osi: fine or me too: 1600x1200 ;-)
(10:46:49) mdamboldt: matm: As stx12 mentioned it depends on the resolutio of the screen and size of your browser window.
(10:47:00) bettina-h: Just one question about considering numbers: What sense does it make to count a number for an obvious duplicate result?
(10:47:33) matm: yes, so give us numbers of incoming resolutions
(10:47:34) mdamboldt: I vote for count the numbers and then discuss. Not the other way around.
(10:47:49) stx12: i would like to see how often the two links are used (By Tag and more tags)
(10:47:50) jsc: should we optimize for 1024x768?
(10:48:34) stx12: matm: i'm not sure whether it's possible to correlate to resolution, but let's see...
(10:48:38) matm:  jsc: don't know but...
(10:49:03) lgodard: hi all
(10:49:05) matm: if one does not see the tags panel, one will surely use the by tags link...
(10:49:14) mdamboldt: jsc: Can't we get those numbers, too?
(10:49:15) lgodard: sorry for being late (car accident ...)
(10:49:44) mdamboldt: lgodard: Hope everything is well.
(10:49:50) ***stx12 hopes that lgodard's car is not damaged
(10:50:06) lgodard: mdamboldt: me yes, the car not (Wild animal won)
(10:50:43) matm: which animal ?
(10:50:43) mdamboldt: stx12/b_osi: Do we have numbers on display resolution or can get those for the site?
(10:51:00) b_osi: yes.
(10:51:33) lgodard: matm: OFFTOPIC Sanglier (fr) / Wild pig ? (en)
(10:52:01) SunNF: Wildschwein (de)
(10:52:06) mdamboldt: :)
(10:52:08) lgodard: SunNF: thx
(10:52:19) SunNF: :)
(10:52:20) ***lgodard red the IRC log
(10:52:33) stx12: mdamboldt: i think we can get numbers about the visitors' resolution; but not correlated to clicks, ..
(10:52:46) lgodard: we can come back on translation topic at the end if you want - lets continue
(10:53:21) jsc: independent of these cosmetic optimizations ... I would suggest a survey in 2-3 months related to the usability etc. of the whole site
(10:53:23) jsc: lgodard:maybe later. Let us first discuss the current point
(10:53:40) lgodard: jsc: yes, totally agree
(10:54:01) mdamboldt: stx12: At least we know what they use. If >=xy% use 1024x768 we can descide to rework the layout, etc.
(10:55:01) jl: Should we add a link where users can give feedback?
(10:55:59) mdamboldt: jl: We did that discussion last week regarding the "Contact Us" link ata the bottom of the page.
(10:56:03) lgodard: jl: isn't this page dedicated to that http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/websitecontact
(10:56:08) SunNF: jl: If we are able to give feedback for the feedback... I like the idea to have a survey instead from time to time
(10:56:11) jsc: jl: feedback can be given by clicking on contact us in the bottom
(10:56:27) stx12: i think we already have quite some feedback at website@extensions we can't handle...
(10:56:39) ***stx12 agrees with SunNF
(10:56:48) jsc: yes, a survey is to concentrate the feedback
(10:56:57) jsc: agree as well
(10:57:12) mdamboldt: good point
(10:58:23) bettina-h: you mean another feedback is easier to consider than the already given one?
(10:58:56) jsc: ok, it seems that the majority agree on collecting some numbers or collect feedback and plan potential changes based on this data, right?
(10:59:16) jl: jsc: yes
(10:59:24) mdamboldt: jsc: Just note corresponding AI's
(10:59:32) stx12: jsc: yes
(10:59:33) jl: anyway the "Contact us" does not sound inviting
(10:59:43) lgodard: jl: agree
(11:00:36) jsc: jl: yes but it can be used and when we plan to collect concentrated feedback from time to time, i think it's ok
(11:00:47) matm: jl, lgodard: shall we put a "Give Feddback" link ?
(11:00:58) matm: s/Fedd/Feed/
(11:02:06) jl: matm: do not know, most users are reluctant to write something
(11:02:16) matm: not me :-)
(11:02:37) jl: I guess something where they easily can click on
(11:02:37) matm: and 3 people on website@ext neither
(11:03:09) jl: But then you would not get detailed data either
(11:03:21) jsc: matm: the question is who will take care of the feedback. I would prefer a well planned survey where we have plans to react on the feedback
(11:03:58) matm: jsc: forward message to web@ext ...
(11:04:12) lgodard: jsc: is a survey openned enough ?
(11:04:14) matm: this is what it is about, no?
(11:04:43) lgodard: jsc: regarding covered topics ?
(11:05:03) ***mdamboldt Todays meeting already runs for one hour now, may be we should speed up a little bit.
(11:05:19) jsc: mmh, web@ext... is a mailing list that need subscription
(11:05:34) matm: IMO, sending a word when you see a flaw is better than *taking time* to fill a survey
(11:06:12) matm: js: should the website be subscribed as "web-feedback"?
(11:06:18) jsc: matm: submit an issue? Or is it too much for end users ... (probably)
(11:06:28) matm: and wait for the survey to take place.
(11:06:42) mdamboldt: jsc: too much for end user
(11:06:51) jl: jsc: writing an issue is big hurdle for nomal users
(11:06:54) lgodard: jsc: wa have the abuse-like method - this is not a problem, i guess
(11:06:55) matm: jsc: too much, IMO. Or provide a lighter front-end
(11:07:04) matm: that will do the jjob
(11:07:13) lgodard: jl: agree, issue is not suitable
(11:07:15) jsc: ok ok, you have convinced me.
(11:07:34) lgodard: we already set up a mailing list
(11:07:42) lgodard: for reporting abuse transparently
(11:07:52) lgodard: can't we do that for feed back
(11:08:13) lgodard: create and subscribe a user for submitting to the website@extension
(11:08:32) mdamboldt: lgodard: It's always the question if we can track and give feedback on *all* of those lists.
(11:09:04) jsc: lgodard: yes but i would like to use it for this purpose only
(11:09:05) jsc: if we agrre in a feedback likn then please forward to the web@ext mailing list and subscribe web-feedback@... as suggested
(11:09:46) jsc: ... agree on a feedback link ...
(11:10:22) lgodard: mdamboldt: i prefer many list i can manage than only one where all is mixed
(11:10:50) mdamboldt: lgodard: understood
(11:11:10) matm: lgodard: yes but the web@ext ml is just about feedback, no ?
(11:11:34) matm: improving site, etc.
(11:11:37) lgodard: matm: no, it is about ... website :) actually, for constructing
(11:11:44) jsc: mdamboldt has already mentioned that we ran out of time
(11:11:46) jsc: I would suggest come to en end for today
(11:11:46) lgodard: later for feedback and improvements
(11:11:47) jsc: Can we find an agreement today related to the feedback link
(11:11:53) stx12: may I ask who is going to read the feedback, condense it and send comprehensive summaries to those who should implement it?
(11:13:07) lgodard: stx12: moreover, handle languages
(11:13:10) jsc: stx12: that is what I mentioned before, Who will take care of it ...
(11:13:15) ***stx12 doesn't think we need anything else than the "contact us" link
(11:13:26) matm: stx12: that's why the mailing list is  (enforcing...)
(11:13:27) lgodard: jsc: who is responsable of the website dev.
(11:13:37) jsc: stx12: i agree ... at least for the moment
(11:14:00) mdamboldt: stx12: agree, let's move to next topic
(11:14:07) matm: jsc: create an AI we'll discuss next week
(11:14:43) stx12: matm: sounds you are volunteering to take care of the AI? :-)
(11:15:15) matm: to monitor, if you want. To do, I can't :-)
(11:15:24) jsc: matm: i can do it but i would like to see a volunteer who comes back with a proposal that we can discuss
(11:15:52) matm: ok, then.
(11:16:40) jsc: ok, that you are the owner of the new AI and that you will prepare a proposal?
(11:17:17) matm: yes
(11:18:54) jsc: fine
(11:18:56) jsc: because of the time i would suggest that we move the translation stuff to the next meeting. And of course we will discuss it in Barcelona.
(11:18:57) jsc: I would say that's it for today. Thank you for joining us here on the channel ;-)
(11:19:14) mdamboldt: Since last week the Extension Repository is live and disclaimer and test extensions have been removed.
(11:19:14) mdamboldt: Various people submitted their extensions the last days, this is great.
(11:19:14) mdamboldt: Are we going to do some more advertisement for the Extension repository on the OOoCon next week?
(11:19:43) jsc: mdamboldt: i noticed this as well, it's cool
(11:19:46) stx12: hey, I think we have to think about about housekeeping of extensions; sonner or later we will have a larg ebunch of outdated, unused, ones...
(11:20:16) stx12: b_osi: is there any way to find unpublished extensions or releases?
(11:20:47) bettina-h: and where are we doing advertisement? Currently within the Office we have one link in the Extension manager.
(11:20:58) jl: I will mention the repository in my presentation
(11:21:04) lgodard: jsc: regarding translation, i agree the workflow needs to be explained
(11:21:18) b_osi: stx12: admin-content- complete list with flags published/unp.
(11:21:33) stx12: b_osi: thx
(11:21:51) lgodard: i propose a change/new AI regarding slopez one : have confirmation and results he is working or find someone else
(11:22:21) bettina-h: stx12: Have we announced the repository already?
(11:22:57) jsc: lgodar: let us discuss it next week when we address the whole translation feature.
(11:23:06) stx12: bettina-h: this will happen with 2.3 and/or at the conference
(11:24:05) jsc: related the AI, we can cancel it until we have somebody else or a clear picture how it should work
(11:24:07) bettina-h: If I google for extensions, I don't find a link to the repository.
(11:24:20) ***mdamboldt has nothing else for today
(11:24:38) jsc: ok, can we agree to close the meeting for today?
(11:24:50) stx12: bettina-h: ahh, thanks for the hint; we should allow robots now...
(11:25:07) jl: jsc: ok with me
(11:25:14) bettina-h: yes
(11:25:23) SunNF: yes