Apache OpenOffice Wiki - User contributions [en]

Community Council/Agenda

2010-11-25T20:11:30Z

LouisSuarez:

{{Community_Council}}
== Upcoming Meeting ==

Date: 2010-11-04 (Derived from the [[Community Council/Calendar|Community Council Meeting Calendar]])

Time: [http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?day=04&month=11&year=2010&hour=19&min=30&sec=0&p1=0 19.30 UTC] (click on the link to show world clock times)

Location: IRC

== Agenda and Work Status ==

The following table represents the agenda of the upcoming meeting and the current work status of topics / action items. Working with this table is described in the [[Community Council/Meeting Guidelines|Community Council Meeting Guidelines]].

{| class="prettytable sortable"
|-
! scope="col" | ID 
! scope="col" | Topic 
! scope="col" | Status 
! scope="col" | Responsible 
! scope="col" | Last Update 
! scope="col" | Details 
|-
| 0 
| List of Action Items of previous meeting for approval 
| ''none'' 
| all 
| 2010-10-14 
|
*Meeting minutes of previous meeting at [[Community Council/Minutes#2010-10-14|Minutes#2010-10-14]] 
*Result: (to be confirmed)

|-
| 2010-10-14#1 
| Where do we stand 
| new 
| all 
| 2010-10-14 
|
*Now that many members of the community council support the Document Foundation: how do find the best way to go on?
*Discussion: A summary seems hard to provide, so please consider to read the [[Community Council Log 20101014#IRC_Log_2010-10-14|IRC Log]].
*Result: Cor and Martin will have a talk and discuss the topic. Additionally, some community council members request to resolve the issue by next Tuesday (2010-10-19).

|-
| bgcolor="#ffffcc" colspan="6" | Note: Because of running out of time, the meeting has been. So no further Action Items (below) have been discussed.
|-
| 2010-03-04#2 
| Refresh Incubator and NLC Project processes 
| Accepted 
| Louis 
| 2010-03-18 
|
*The NLC homepage (http://native-lang.openoffice.org/) has the language in the policy I wrote many years ago, and I'll be using a version of that plus the earlier drafts submitted to resolve this. The hangup has been what to do with mothballed projects, what to do with the data. We will create an effective category, with very limited permissions, called something like, "Inactive Projects" and the data will remain there, unto perpetuity or the closes thing to it. Expect new update by next CC meeting. 

|-
| 2010-03-04#6 
| Talk to Education Project Leads about structure and remit 
| Stalled 
| louis 
| 2010-03-18 
|
*Louis to take this on and report by next CC meeting of discussions held with the responsible persons. 
| Community situation 
| Accepted 
| All 
| 2010-09-23 
|
*What do we see, where are we, what are we going to do about it. 
*Activities:
**All CC members are asked to think about it and Cor will prepare a proposal for an detailed agenda. 
**Leif already collected some issues (e.g. rare communication via blogs) and will send that to Cor. 
*Next Steps: Proposal that the CC will work on that at the OOoCon in Budapest.
**Cor send a mail on 2010-08-12 with some items for the agenda. 
*2010-09-03/09-21: Page with draft plan [[Community Council/collaboration in the OOo-community|improvement community collaboration]]

|-
| 2010-04-29#2 
|
Missing OOo desktop presence

| Accepted 
| Christoph, Stefan
| 2010-09-21 
|
*Request by a community member to discuss / decide the following question: "''Why should OpenOffice.org give away it's presence on the user's desktop - the main place to be recognized by the people - only to support the "application independency" of ODF?'' A Sun employee stated "The idea of supporting ODF as a application independent open standard is the priority." This leads / will lead to changes with regard to the document and application icon design. The current ODF "only" icons seem to be undesired by the community. Original request to the CC on ooo-discuss: [http://www.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=65958 initial mail (2010-04-14)], [http://www.openoffice.org/servlets/BrowseList?listName=discuss&from=2361081&to=2361081&count=28&by=thread&first=1&windowSize=1000 full mail thread]
*Discussion:
**2010-04-29: Some members stated that the request should be "more actionable" and "better framed" to be decided by the community. Proposal has been made to forward the request to council-discuss to propose how to proceed.
**2010-05-02: Christoph forwarded the [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2564 request to the CC mailing list]. A first discussion took place.
**2010-05-20: Intensive discussion about the request and how to address it. Stefan and Christoph agreed to work out a request to the ODF Icons team to iterate on the design and/or processes. Maybe a "refreshed" team which may provide an agreed-upon proposal. Stefan stated that there shouldn't be any dependency to the next/other releases.
**2010-06-08: Some opinions have been requested from people who initially worked in the branding initiative. Either there isn't feedback yet, or the people aren't currently available to support the i-Team. Ongoing ...
**2010-06-30: Still ongoing ...
**2010-07-22: Andreas provided some insight what currently happens within Oracle. The topic "icons" is currently addressed ...
***A discussion took place with Michael Bemmer and other people at Oracle.
***Outcome: Oracle marketing made a decision that is supposed to be communicated shortly. --> Icons will be redesigned, for the long run, with constraints.
***Motivation: The current design fails with regard to usability aspects. --> Redesign is intended with focus on usability.
***Constraints: The activity will be run open with all necessary involvements.
***Question to Andreas/Martin to discuss whether the official statement may be discussed with the community before it is going to be published "officially".
***Decision to keep this CC Action Item open until there is more visible activity.
**2010-08-12: Marketing contact is in vacation, and information also depends on others at Oracle. More information defitively to come at the OOoCon, presentation "[http://www.ooocon.org/index.php/ooocon/2010/paper/view/215 Brand Refresh and new Brand Initiative]". 
**2010-09-21: Request for update sent to Oracle, nothing new yet.
*Next steps: Waiting for the reaction by Oracle, either getting in touch with the community or an official announcement. 
*Cornouws: discussed during OOoCon; looks as if we were able to bring accros the importancy, however, other tasks ask attention first from Oracle people. 
|-
| 2010-11-25#1 
| Update OOo Internship Project 2010 
| New 
| JSC 
| 2010-11-25 
|
* the project ended official on November 14th 
* 5 of 6 project finished successful. One project is put on hold by a request of the student because the lack of time. We offered to finish this project later after the exam when the student has more time again. 
* all projects had a good outcome which will result in a future office release or where we can at least use it as more than a good start point for further work on this topic/feature. 
* overall a good experience and a good project which we should definitely repeat 
|}

 

== Minutes of Previous Meetings ==

To be found [[Community Council/Minutes|here]].

[[Category:Community_Council]]

Community Council/Agenda

2010-11-25T20:09:29Z

LouisSuarez:

{{Community_Council}}
== Upcoming Meeting ==

Date: 2010-11-04 (Derived from the [[Community Council/Calendar|Community Council Meeting Calendar]])

Time: [http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?day=04&month=11&year=2010&hour=19&min=30&sec=0&p1=0 19.30 UTC] (click on the link to show world clock times)

Location: IRC

== Agenda and Work Status ==

The following table represents the agenda of the upcoming meeting and the current work status of topics / action items. Working with this table is described in the [[Community Council/Meeting Guidelines|Community Council Meeting Guidelines]].

{| class="prettytable sortable"
|-
! scope="col" | ID 
! scope="col" | Topic 
! scope="col" | Status 
! scope="col" | Responsible 
! scope="col" | Last Update 
! scope="col" | Details 
|-
| 0 
| List of Action Items of previous meeting for approval 
| ''none'' 
| all 
| 2010-10-14 
|
*Meeting minutes of previous meeting at [[Community Council/Minutes#2010-10-14|Minutes#2010-10-14]] 
*Result: (to be confirmed)

|-
| 2010-10-14#1 
| Where do we stand 
| new 
| all 
| 2010-10-14 
|
*Now that many members of the community council support the Document Foundation: how do find the best way to go on?
*Discussion: A summary seems hard to provide, so please consider to read the [[Community Council Log 20101014#IRC_Log_2010-10-14|IRC Log]].
*Result: Cor and Martin will have a talk and discuss the topic. Additionally, some community council members request to resolve the issue by next Tuesday (2010-10-19).

|-
| bgcolor="#ffffcc" colspan="6" | Note: Because of running out of time, the meeting has been. So no further Action Items (below) have been discussed.
|-
| 2010-03-04#2 
| Refresh Incubator and NLC Project processes 
| Accepted 
| Louis 
| 2010-03-18 
|
*The NLC has the language and I'll be using a version of that plus the earlier drafts submitted to resolve this. The hangup has been what to do with mothballed projects, what to do with the data. We will create an effective category, with very limited permissions, called something like, "Inactive Projects" and the data will remain there, unto perpetuity or the closes thing to it. Expect new update by next CC meeting. 

|-
| 2010-03-04#6 
| Talk to Education Project Leads about structure and remit 
| Stalled 
| John, Cor 
| 2010-03-18 
|
*Cor to prepare a draft and present it to the Community Council. Nothing done yet.
*Next steps: Will be discussed in next meeting. 

|-
| 2010-04-01#1 
| Community situation 
| Accepted 
| All 
| 2010-09-23 
|
*What do we see, where are we, what are we going to do about it. 
*Activities:
**All CC members are asked to think about it and Cor will prepare a proposal for an detailed agenda. 
**Leif already collected some issues (e.g. rare communication via blogs) and will send that to Cor. 
*Next Steps: Proposal that the CC will work on that at the OOoCon in Budapest.
**Cor send a mail on 2010-08-12 with some items for the agenda. 
*2010-09-03/09-21: Page with draft plan [[Community Council/collaboration in the OOo-community|improvement community collaboration]]

|-
| 2010-04-29#2 
|
Missing OOo desktop presence

| Accepted 
| Christoph, Stefan
| 2010-09-21 
|
*Request by a community member to discuss / decide the following question: "''Why should OpenOffice.org give away it's presence on the user's desktop - the main place to be recognized by the people - only to support the "application independency" of ODF?'' A Sun employee stated "The idea of supporting ODF as a application independent open standard is the priority." This leads / will lead to changes with regard to the document and application icon design. The current ODF "only" icons seem to be undesired by the community. Original request to the CC on ooo-discuss: [http://www.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=65958 initial mail (2010-04-14)], [http://www.openoffice.org/servlets/BrowseList?listName=discuss&from=2361081&to=2361081&count=28&by=thread&first=1&windowSize=1000 full mail thread]
*Discussion:
**2010-04-29: Some members stated that the request should be "more actionable" and "better framed" to be decided by the community. Proposal has been made to forward the request to council-discuss to propose how to proceed.
**2010-05-02: Christoph forwarded the [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2564 request to the CC mailing list]. A first discussion took place.
**2010-05-20: Intensive discussion about the request and how to address it. Stefan and Christoph agreed to work out a request to the ODF Icons team to iterate on the design and/or processes. Maybe a "refreshed" team which may provide an agreed-upon proposal. Stefan stated that there shouldn't be any dependency to the next/other releases.
**2010-06-08: Some opinions have been requested from people who initially worked in the branding initiative. Either there isn't feedback yet, or the people aren't currently available to support the i-Team. Ongoing ...
**2010-06-30: Still ongoing ...
**2010-07-22: Andreas provided some insight what currently happens within Oracle. The topic "icons" is currently addressed ...
***A discussion took place with Michael Bemmer and other people at Oracle.
***Outcome: Oracle marketing made a decision that is supposed to be communicated shortly. --> Icons will be redesigned, for the long run, with constraints.
***Motivation: The current design fails with regard to usability aspects. --> Redesign is intended with focus on usability.
***Constraints: The activity will be run open with all necessary involvements.
***Question to Andreas/Martin to discuss whether the official statement may be discussed with the community before it is going to be published "officially".
***Decision to keep this CC Action Item open until there is more visible activity.
**2010-08-12: Marketing contact is in vacation, and information also depends on others at Oracle. More information defitively to come at the OOoCon, presentation "[http://www.ooocon.org/index.php/ooocon/2010/paper/view/215 Brand Refresh and new Brand Initiative]". 
**2010-09-21: Request for update sent to Oracle, nothing new yet.
*Next steps: Waiting for the reaction by Oracle, either getting in touch with the community or an official announcement. 
*Cornouws: discussed during OOoCon; looks as if we were able to bring accros the importancy, however, other tasks ask attention first from Oracle people. 
|-
| 2010-11-25#1 
| Update OOo Internship Project 2010 
| New 
| JSC 
| 2010-11-25 
|
* the project ended official on November 14th 
* 5 of 6 project finished successful. One project is put on hold by a request of the student because the lack of time. We offered to finish this project later after the exam when the student has more time again. 
* all projects had a good outcome which will result in a future office release or where we can at least use it as more than a good start point for further work on this topic/feature. 
* overall a good experience and a good project which we should definitely repeat 
|}

 

== Minutes of Previous Meetings ==

To be found [[Community Council/Minutes|here]].

[[Category:Community_Council]]

Community Council/Funding And Budgets/Budget 2010

2010-11-05T13:21:53Z

LouisSuarez:

{{Community_Council}}
= Community Council Finances 2010 =

==Note: Some changes affecting the budget holders here are provisional and not permanent==

== Budget ==

=== Common Administration ===
* Budget:€5,000.00
* Budget Holder: Community Manager 
Currently: Louis Suarez-Potts
* Authorisers: Martin Hollmichel, ?
* Discussions on: discuss@council and/or project_leads

=== Marketing ===
* Budget Holder: Marketing Project Lead - Peter Junge
* Authorisers: three co-Lead and/or MarCons proposed by MP Lead and accepted by CC 21 Jan 2010
** John McCreesh - MarCon, UK (?)
** Louis Suarez-Potts - Co-Lead, Marketing (pro-tem budget holder here)
** Cor Nouws - MarCon, the Netherlands
** Italo Vignoli - MarCon, Italy

==== General Marketing ====
* Budget: €10,000.00
* Discussions on: dev@ or marcon@

==== other Conferences ====
* Budget: €40,000.00
* Discussions on: dev@ or marcon@

==== OOoCon ====
* Budget: €10,000.00 (for bursaries - other costs to be covered by dedicated sponsoring)
* Discussions on: dev@ or marcon@ until OOoCon organising committee in place

=== Infrastructure ===
* Budget: €10,000.00
* Budget Holder: Member of the CC, to be appointed by the CC 
Currently: Stefan Taxhet
* Authorisers: two members from the project leads group or from CC or from ESC proposed by budget holder and accepted by CC 
Currently: Christian Lohmaier
* Discussions on: budget@council and / or project_leads

=== Developer ===
* Budget: €20,000.00
* Budget Holder: To be appointed by ESC
** 2008: Budget Holder: Martin Hollmichel, Authorizers: Thorsten Behrens, Pavel Janik
* Authorisers: two Project Leads or CC members proposed by Budget Holder and accepted by CC
* Discussions on: project_leads
* [[Community_Council/Funding_And_Budgets/Developer | Dashboard]]

=== Contingency ===
* Budget: €5,000.00
* Budget Holder: CC until allocated

== Expenditure ==

[[Category:Community Council]]

OOoConOrganizers

2010-08-25T20:15:03Z

LouisSuarez:

__NOTOC__ {{DISPLAYTITLE:OpenOffice.org Conference Organizers Coordination Page}}
= Florian Effenberger =

*arrives: Sunday, August 29th, in the evening 
*leaves: Saturday, September 4th, in the morning 
*stays at: Hotel Boutique Bristol, Kenyérmező u. 4. 
*mobile phone: +49 151 14424108 (This is my public phone number. I'll share my private one on the mailing list.)
*e-mail: [mailto:floeff@openoffice.org floeff@openoffice.org]

 

= Peter Junge =

*arrives: Sunday, August 29th, very late 
*leaves: Monday, September 6th, in the morning 
*stays at: Hotel Boutique Bristol, Kenyérmező u. 4. 
*mobile phone: +49 160 5550044 or +49 1578 8615057 
*e-mail: [mailto:pj@openoffice.org pj@openoffice.org]

 

= Péter Szakál =

*lives in Budapest 
*mobile phone: +36 70 704 5669 
*e-mail: [mailto:szakal.peter@openskm.com szakal.peter@openskm.com]

 

= Stefan Taxhet =

*arrives: Monday, August 30, afternoon 
*leaves: Saturday, September 4th, morning 
*stays at: Hotel Mercure Duna, Soroksáriút 12 
*e-mail: [mailto:stefan.taxhet@oracle.com stefan.taxhet@oracle.com]

 

=Louis Suarez-Potts=

*arrives: Monday, 30 August, afternoon 
*leaves: Monday 6 September 
*stays at: [http://www.operagardenhotel.hu/ Opera Garden Hotel], H-1065 Budapest, Hajós u. 24. 
*email: [mailto:louis.suarez-potts@oracle.com louis.suarez-potts@oracle.com]

 

[[Category:Marketing]]

OOoConOrganizers

2010-08-25T20:14:40Z

LouisSuarez:

__NOTOC__ {{DISPLAYTITLE:OpenOffice.org Conference Organizers Coordination Page}}
= Florian Effenberger =

*arrives: Sunday, August 29th, in the evening 
*leaves: Saturday, September 4th, in the morning 
*stays at: Hotel Boutique Bristol, Kenyérmező u. 4. 
*mobile phone: +49 151 14424108 (This is my public phone number. I'll share my private one on the mailing list.)
*e-mail: [mailto:floeff@openoffice.org floeff@openoffice.org]

 

= Peter Junge =

*arrives: Sunday, August 29th, very late 
*leaves: Monday, September 6th, in the morning 
*stays at: Hotel Boutique Bristol, Kenyérmező u. 4. 
*mobile phone: +49 160 5550044 or +49 1578 8615057 
*e-mail: [mailto:pj@openoffice.org pj@openoffice.org]

 

= Péter Szakál =

*lives in Budapest 
*mobile phone: +36 70 704 5669 
*e-mail: [mailto:szakal.peter@openskm.com szakal.peter@openskm.com]

 

= Stefan Taxhet =

*arrives: Monday, August 30, afternoon 
*leaves: Saturday, September 4th, morning 
*stays at: Hotel Mercure Duna, Soroksáriút 12 
*e-mail: [mailto:stefan.taxhet@oracle.com stefan.taxhet@oracle.com]

 

=Louis Suarez-Potts=

*arrives: Monday, 30 August, afternoon 
*leaves: Monday 6 September 
*stays at: [http://www.operagardenhotel.hu/ Opera Garden Hotel], H-1065 Budapest, Hajós u. 24. 
*email: [mailto:louis.suarez-potts@oracle.com ouis.suarez-potts@oracle.com]

 

[[Category:Marketing]]

OOoConOrganizers

2010-08-25T20:14:17Z

LouisSuarez:

__NOTOC__ {{DISPLAYTITLE:OpenOffice.org Conference Organizers Coordination Page}}
= Florian Effenberger =

*arrives: Sunday, August 29th, in the evening 
*leaves: Saturday, September 4th, in the morning 
*stays at: Hotel Boutique Bristol, Kenyérmező u. 4. 
*mobile phone: +49 151 14424108 (This is my public phone number. I'll share my private one on the mailing list.)
*e-mail: [mailto:floeff@openoffice.org floeff@openoffice.org]

 

= Peter Junge =

*arrives: Sunday, August 29th, very late 
*leaves: Monday, September 6th, in the morning 
*stays at: Hotel Boutique Bristol, Kenyérmező u. 4. 
*mobile phone: +49 160 5550044 or +49 1578 8615057 
*e-mail: [mailto:pj@openoffice.org pj@openoffice.org]

 

= Péter Szakál =

*lives in Budapest 
*mobile phone: +36 70 704 5669 
*e-mail: [mailto:szakal.peter@openskm.com szakal.peter@openskm.com]

 

= Stefan Taxhet =

*arrives: Monday, August 30, afternoon 
*leaves: Saturday, September 4th, morning 
*stays at: Hotel Mercure Duna, Soroksáriút 12 
*e-mail: [mailto:stefan.taxhet@oracle.com stefan.taxhet@oracle.com]

 

=Louis Suarez-Potts==

*arrives: Monday, 30 August, afternoon 
*leaves: Monday 6 September 
*stays at: [http://www.operagardenhotel.hu/ Opera Garden Hotel], H-1065 Budapest, Hajós u. 24. 
*email: [mailto:louis.suarez-potts@oracle.com ouis.suarez-potts@oracle.com]

 

[[Category:Marketing]]

OOoCon2010Stay

2010-08-25T20:09:46Z

LouisSuarez:

__NOTOC__ {{DISPLAYTITLE:Where do you stay at OOoCon 2010?}} [[Category:OOoCon2010]] [[Category:OOoCon]]

= Introduction =

In order to plan meetings and have common places to gather together, we'll try to collect all the hotels where OOoCon participants will stay. If it doesn't exist in the list already, please add your hotel and name to the list, if you want to share the information with the public. You can also add your e-mail address and mobile number, if you want people to reach you - the more the merrier ;-)

The OOoCon organizers would like to encourage everyone to add their details to this wiki page. Please note that all information on this wiki is public, and once published, '''cannot''' be removed anymore, not even by the administrators, so be '''careful''' with what you add.

= Stays =

The format of the entries is name, role, e-mail address, mobile phone number, arrival and departure

==Hotel Opera Garden, H-1065 Budapest, Hajós u. 24.==
[http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?client=safari&rls=en&oe=UTF-8&redir_esc=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=opera+garden+hotel+budapest&fb=1&gl=uk&hq=opera+garden+hotel&hnear=Budapest,+Hungary&cid=0,0,18347281351441338242&ei=yXR1TPnmHseQswbK-bXuBQ&sa=X&oi=local_result&ct=image&resnum=2&ved=0CCMQnwIwAQ Google mapping of Opera Garden Hotel]

*Louis Suarez-Potts, Community Development Manager, [mailto:louis.suarez-potts@oracle.com louis.suarez-potts@oracle.com], 30 August-6 September.

== Hotel Boutique Bristol, Kenyérmező u. 4. ==

[http://maps.google.de/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=1081+Budapest,+VIII.+ker%C3%BClet,+Keny%C3%A9rmez%C5%91+utca+4,+Ungarn&daddr=1051+Budapest,+N%C3%A1dor+utca+9,+Ungarn&hl=de&geocode=Fd7E1AIdsBgjASkxSDqiYdxBRzHBjYYUAyHm4Q%3BFbXM1AIdoasiASkn0F0LFdxBRzEgEaZnEyeKJQ&mra=ls&sll=47.498068,19.064498&sspn=0.020963,0.038581&ie=UTF8&ll=47.498648,19.063296&spn=0.020963,0.038581&z=15 Google Map Route to Hotel Boutique Bristol]

*Florian Effenberger, Marketing Project Lead, [mailto:floeff@openoffice.org floeff@openoffice.org], +49 151 14424108, 29-Aug, 4-Sep
*Peter Junge, Marketing Project co-Lead, [mailto:pj@openoffice.org pj@openoffice.org], +49 1578 8615057, 29-Aug, 6-Sep

== Camping Haller, Haller utca 27. ==

[http://maps.google.de/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Haller+utca&daddr=1051+Budapest,+N%C3%A1dor+utca+9,+Ungarn&hl=de&geocode=Fa9w1AIdKi8jAQ%3BFbXM1AIdoasiASkn0F0LFdxBRzEgEaZnEyeKJQ&mra=dme&mrcr=0&mrsp=0&sz=16&sll=47.476593,19.0816&sspn=0.010486,0.01929&ie=UTF8&ll=47.489021,19.066257&spn=0.041933,0.077162&z=14 Google Map Route to Camping Haller]

*Stefan Weigel, no rank - not title, [[Special:EmailUser/Stefanw|StefanW]], 31-Aug, 4-Sep

== Hotel Eurostars Center, Kossuth Lajos u. 7-9. ==

[http://maps.google.es/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=1051+Budapest,+N%C3%A1dor+utca+9,+Magyarorsz%C3%A1g+(CEU)&daddr=1053+Budapest,+V.+ker%C3%BClet,+Kossuth+Lajos+utca+7,+Hungr%C3%ADa&hl=es&geocode=FbXM1AIdoasiASFviAnhB6gN3Ckn0F0LFdxBRzEgEaZnEyeKJQ%3BFXmy1AIdd8wiASkvQb2ZQ9xBRzGC63PU5eFNQg&mra=pe&mrcr=0&sll=47.507092,19.066579&sspn=0.246292,0.441513&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=16 Google Map Route to Hotel Eurostars Center]

*Manu Arjó, VicePresident Business Development at [http://www.sironta.com Sironta], [mailto:manuel.arjo@sironta.com manuel.arjo@sironta.com], +34 933 535 627, 2-Sep, 3-Sep
*Arthur Buijs, NL.OpenOffice.org Co-Lead, [mailto:arthur@artietee.nl arthur@artietee.nl], +31 (0)654668131, 28-Aug, 3-Sep

== CEU Residence Center ==

[http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=1106+Budapest,+Kerepesi+%FAt+87,+Magyarorsz%E1g&daddr=1051+Budapest,+N%E1dor+utca+9,+Magyarorsz%E1g+(CEU)&geocode=Fd_f1AIdMEokASndS7kXqcRBRzEDYtkELVo0bw%3BFbXM1AIdoasiASkn0F0LFdxBRzEgEaZnEyeKJQ&mra=prev&sll=47.499835,19.10243&sspn=0.051608,0.154324&ie=UTF8&z=13 Google Map Route to CEU]

*Andrea Pescetti, Italian N-L Project Lead, pescetti@ooo, - , 31 Aug, 3 Sep
*Gustavo Buzzatti Pacheco, BrOffice.org/OpenOffice.org Brazil, [mailto:gbpacheco@openoffice.org gbpacheco@openoffice.org], +555184029927, 29-Aug, 5-Sep
*Leo Moons, Translator/member nl.openoffice.org, Belgian, [mailto:vpanter@openoffice.org vpanter@openoffice.org], +32 475 241646, 30 Aug - 4 Sep
*Cor Nouws, community representative Community Council, marketing nl-OpenOffice.org, owner Nou&Off, Netherlands,[mailto:oolst@nouenoff.nl oolst@nouenoff.nl], + 31 625 207001, 29/30 Aug - 5 Sep
*Samphan Raruenrom, Thai N-L Project Lead, samphan at openoffice.org, 29 Aug - 4 Sep
*Tatat Thanakanok, Thai N-L Project member, tatat at openoffice.org, 29 Aug - 4 Sep
*Jan de Jong, Translator/member nl.openoffice.org, Netherlands, [mailto:pcs-ooo@live.nl pcs-ooo@live.nl] +31623798086, 30 aug - 4 sep
*Javier Sola, KhmerOS Project. Cambodia - 31st Aug - 3 Sep

== Alta Moda Fashion Hotel, 13 Nádor Utca 1051. ==

[http://www.splendia.com/en/alta-moda-fashion-hotel-budapest.html#map Map]

*[http://www4.plala.or.jp/k21/ Katsuya Kobayashi], Marketing Project member, [[Special:EmailUser/kynh|kynh]], , 30-Aug, 4-Sep
*Rony G. Flatscher, WU Wien, 31 Aug - 4 Sep

== Mercure Budapest Duna, Soroksari ut 12 ==

[http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Mercure+Budapest+Duna&hl=en&cd=1&ei=_bliTLXII5DyObH1mBk&vps=2&jsv=264c&sll=47.4793,19.0684&sspn=1.258326,3.140552&ie=UTF8&lr=lang_pt|lang_en&view=map&cid=15417917116959416148&iwloc=A&ved=0CIkBEKUG&sa=X Map]

*Leif Lodahl, Danish language coord, lodahl@openoffice.org
*Paulo Vilela, Marketing OOo Portugal, [mailto:pvilela@openoffice.org pvilela@openoffice.org], +351912591908, 30-Aug to 3- Sep
*Clayton Cornell, Documentation Project co-lead, [mailto:ccornell@openoffice.org ccornell@openoffice.org], 13 Aug to 03 Sept
*Chao Sun, Architect of Redflag2000, [mailto:sunchao@redoffice.com], 30Aug to 03Sept
*Heng Li, Proformance project co-lead, [mailto:liheng@redoffice.com], 30Aug to 03Sept
*Yu Liu, ODF project developer, [mailto:liuyu@redoffice.com], 30Aug to 03Sept

== Mercure Budapest Buda, Krisztina Korut 41-43 ==

[http://maps.google.com/maps/place?cid=15227343547741076547&q=Mercure+Budapest+Buda+Krisztina+Korut+41-43+Hungary&hl=en&cd=1&ei=-BtjTI7XGYz8Oajx0dUC&sig2=NO51ehG49IYr2_G81o43Hw&dtab=0&sll=47.4987,19.0272&sspn=0.071946,0.1348&ie=UTF8&ll=47.51523,19.000769&spn=0,0&z=14&iwloc=A Map]

*Dmitri Popov, Freelance contributor, [mailto:dmpop@openoffice.org dmpop@openoffice.org], August 30 - September 3

== Hotel Ambra, Kis Diofa 13 ==

[http://maps.google.it/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=it&geocode=&q=kis+diofa+13,+budapest&sll=47.508853,19.067116&sspn=0.053107,0.168743&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Budapest,+7+ker%C3%BClet,+Kis+Di%C3%B3fa+utca+13,+Ungheria&z=16 Google Map of Location]

*Italo Vignoli, President Associazione PLIO (Italian NLP), [mailto:italo@italovignoli.com italo@italovignoli.com], +39 348 5653829, August 31 - September 4

== InterContinental Budapest Hotel, Apáczai Csere János utca 12-14 ==

*Rob Weir, [mailto:rob@robweir.com rob@robweir.com], +1 978 467 5445, Aug 30th-Sept 4th
*Don Harbison

== Silver Hotel Budapest City Center, VI., Hunyadi tér 11. ==

[http://maps.google.de/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=de&geocode=&q=Silver+Hotel+Budapest+City+Center+***,+1067+Budapest,+Hunyadi+t%C3%A9r+11.,+Hungary&sll=51.151786,10.415039&sspn=18.620805,52.163086&ie=UTF8&hq=Silver+Hotel+Budapest+City+Center+***,&hnear=1067+Budapest,+VI.+ker%C3%BClet,+Hunyadi+t%C3%A9r+11,+Ungarn&t=h&z=16 Map]

*Christoph Noack, User Experience Project Co-Lead 

[[Category:Marketing]]

OOoCon2010Stay

2010-08-25T20:08:53Z

LouisSuarez:

__NOTOC__ {{DISPLAYTITLE:Where do you stay at OOoCon 2010?}} [[Category:OOoCon2010]] [[Category:OOoCon]]

= Introduction =

In order to plan meetings and have common places to gather together, we'll try to collect all the hotels where OOoCon participants will stay. If it doesn't exist in the list already, please add your hotel and name to the list, if you want to share the information with the public. You can also add your e-mail address and mobile number, if you want people to reach you - the more the merrier ;-)

The OOoCon organizers would like to encourage everyone to add their details to this wiki page. Please note that all information on this wiki is public, and once published, '''cannot''' be removed anymore, not even by the administrators, so be '''careful''' with what you add.

= Stays =

The format of the entries is name, role, e-mail address, mobile phone number, arrival and departure

==Hotel Opera Garden, H-1065 Budapest, Hajós u. 24.==
[http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?client=safari&rls=en&oe=UTF-8&redir_esc=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=opera+garden+hotel+budapest&fb=1&gl=uk&hq=opera+garden+hotel&hnear=Budapest,+Hungary&cid=0,0,18347281351441338242&ei=yXR1TPnmHseQswbK-bXuBQ&sa=X&oi=local_result&ct=image&resnum=2&ved=0CCMQnwIwAQ Google mapping of Opera Garden Hotel]

*Louis Suarez-Potts, Community Development Manager, [mailto:louis.suarez-potts@oracle.com], 30 August-6 September.

== Hotel Boutique Bristol, Kenyérmező u. 4. ==

[http://maps.google.de/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=1081+Budapest,+VIII.+ker%C3%BClet,+Keny%C3%A9rmez%C5%91+utca+4,+Ungarn&daddr=1051+Budapest,+N%C3%A1dor+utca+9,+Ungarn&hl=de&geocode=Fd7E1AIdsBgjASkxSDqiYdxBRzHBjYYUAyHm4Q%3BFbXM1AIdoasiASkn0F0LFdxBRzEgEaZnEyeKJQ&mra=ls&sll=47.498068,19.064498&sspn=0.020963,0.038581&ie=UTF8&ll=47.498648,19.063296&spn=0.020963,0.038581&z=15 Google Map Route to Hotel Boutique Bristol]

*Florian Effenberger, Marketing Project Lead, [mailto:floeff@openoffice.org floeff@openoffice.org], +49 151 14424108, 29-Aug, 4-Sep
*Peter Junge, Marketing Project co-Lead, [mailto:pj@openoffice.org pj@openoffice.org], +49 1578 8615057, 29-Aug, 6-Sep

== Camping Haller, Haller utca 27. ==

[http://maps.google.de/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Haller+utca&daddr=1051+Budapest,+N%C3%A1dor+utca+9,+Ungarn&hl=de&geocode=Fa9w1AIdKi8jAQ%3BFbXM1AIdoasiASkn0F0LFdxBRzEgEaZnEyeKJQ&mra=dme&mrcr=0&mrsp=0&sz=16&sll=47.476593,19.0816&sspn=0.010486,0.01929&ie=UTF8&ll=47.489021,19.066257&spn=0.041933,0.077162&z=14 Google Map Route to Camping Haller]

*Stefan Weigel, no rank - not title, [[Special:EmailUser/Stefanw|StefanW]], 31-Aug, 4-Sep

== Hotel Eurostars Center, Kossuth Lajos u. 7-9. ==

[http://maps.google.es/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=1051+Budapest,+N%C3%A1dor+utca+9,+Magyarorsz%C3%A1g+(CEU)&daddr=1053+Budapest,+V.+ker%C3%BClet,+Kossuth+Lajos+utca+7,+Hungr%C3%ADa&hl=es&geocode=FbXM1AIdoasiASFviAnhB6gN3Ckn0F0LFdxBRzEgEaZnEyeKJQ%3BFXmy1AIdd8wiASkvQb2ZQ9xBRzGC63PU5eFNQg&mra=pe&mrcr=0&sll=47.507092,19.066579&sspn=0.246292,0.441513&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=16 Google Map Route to Hotel Eurostars Center]

*Manu Arjó, VicePresident Business Development at [http://www.sironta.com Sironta], [mailto:manuel.arjo@sironta.com manuel.arjo@sironta.com], +34 933 535 627, 2-Sep, 3-Sep
*Arthur Buijs, NL.OpenOffice.org Co-Lead, [mailto:arthur@artietee.nl arthur@artietee.nl], +31 (0)654668131, 28-Aug, 3-Sep

== CEU Residence Center ==

[http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=1106+Budapest,+Kerepesi+%FAt+87,+Magyarorsz%E1g&daddr=1051+Budapest,+N%E1dor+utca+9,+Magyarorsz%E1g+(CEU)&geocode=Fd_f1AIdMEokASndS7kXqcRBRzEDYtkELVo0bw%3BFbXM1AIdoasiASkn0F0LFdxBRzEgEaZnEyeKJQ&mra=prev&sll=47.499835,19.10243&sspn=0.051608,0.154324&ie=UTF8&z=13 Google Map Route to CEU]

*Andrea Pescetti, Italian N-L Project Lead, pescetti@ooo, - , 31 Aug, 3 Sep
*Gustavo Buzzatti Pacheco, BrOffice.org/OpenOffice.org Brazil, [mailto:gbpacheco@openoffice.org gbpacheco@openoffice.org], +555184029927, 29-Aug, 5-Sep
*Leo Moons, Translator/member nl.openoffice.org, Belgian, [mailto:vpanter@openoffice.org vpanter@openoffice.org], +32 475 241646, 30 Aug - 4 Sep
*Cor Nouws, community representative Community Council, marketing nl-OpenOffice.org, owner Nou&Off, Netherlands,[mailto:oolst@nouenoff.nl oolst@nouenoff.nl], + 31 625 207001, 29/30 Aug - 5 Sep
*Samphan Raruenrom, Thai N-L Project Lead, samphan at openoffice.org, 29 Aug - 4 Sep
*Tatat Thanakanok, Thai N-L Project member, tatat at openoffice.org, 29 Aug - 4 Sep
*Jan de Jong, Translator/member nl.openoffice.org, Netherlands, [mailto:pcs-ooo@live.nl pcs-ooo@live.nl] +31623798086, 30 aug - 4 sep
*Javier Sola, KhmerOS Project. Cambodia - 31st Aug - 3 Sep

== Alta Moda Fashion Hotel, 13 Nádor Utca 1051. ==

[http://www.splendia.com/en/alta-moda-fashion-hotel-budapest.html#map Map]

*[http://www4.plala.or.jp/k21/ Katsuya Kobayashi], Marketing Project member, [[Special:EmailUser/kynh|kynh]], , 30-Aug, 4-Sep
*Rony G. Flatscher, WU Wien, 31 Aug - 4 Sep

== Mercure Budapest Duna, Soroksari ut 12 ==

[http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Mercure+Budapest+Duna&hl=en&cd=1&ei=_bliTLXII5DyObH1mBk&vps=2&jsv=264c&sll=47.4793,19.0684&sspn=1.258326,3.140552&ie=UTF8&lr=lang_pt|lang_en&view=map&cid=15417917116959416148&iwloc=A&ved=0CIkBEKUG&sa=X Map]

*Leif Lodahl, Danish language coord, lodahl@openoffice.org
*Paulo Vilela, Marketing OOo Portugal, [mailto:pvilela@openoffice.org pvilela@openoffice.org], +351912591908, 30-Aug to 3- Sep
*Clayton Cornell, Documentation Project co-lead, [mailto:ccornell@openoffice.org ccornell@openoffice.org], 13 Aug to 03 Sept
*Chao Sun, Architect of Redflag2000, [mailto:sunchao@redoffice.com], 30Aug to 03Sept
*Heng Li, Proformance project co-lead, [mailto:liheng@redoffice.com], 30Aug to 03Sept
*Yu Liu, ODF project developer, [mailto:liuyu@redoffice.com], 30Aug to 03Sept

== Mercure Budapest Buda, Krisztina Korut 41-43 ==

[http://maps.google.com/maps/place?cid=15227343547741076547&q=Mercure+Budapest+Buda+Krisztina+Korut+41-43+Hungary&hl=en&cd=1&ei=-BtjTI7XGYz8Oajx0dUC&sig2=NO51ehG49IYr2_G81o43Hw&dtab=0&sll=47.4987,19.0272&sspn=0.071946,0.1348&ie=UTF8&ll=47.51523,19.000769&spn=0,0&z=14&iwloc=A Map]

*Dmitri Popov, Freelance contributor, [mailto:dmpop@openoffice.org dmpop@openoffice.org], August 30 - September 3

== Hotel Ambra, Kis Diofa 13 ==

[http://maps.google.it/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=it&geocode=&q=kis+diofa+13,+budapest&sll=47.508853,19.067116&sspn=0.053107,0.168743&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Budapest,+7+ker%C3%BClet,+Kis+Di%C3%B3fa+utca+13,+Ungheria&z=16 Google Map of Location]

*Italo Vignoli, President Associazione PLIO (Italian NLP), [mailto:italo@italovignoli.com italo@italovignoli.com], +39 348 5653829, August 31 - September 4

== InterContinental Budapest Hotel, Apáczai Csere János utca 12-14 ==

*Rob Weir, [mailto:rob@robweir.com rob@robweir.com], +1 978 467 5445, Aug 30th-Sept 4th
*Don Harbison

== Silver Hotel Budapest City Center, VI., Hunyadi tér 11. ==

[http://maps.google.de/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=de&geocode=&q=Silver+Hotel+Budapest+City+Center+***,+1067+Budapest,+Hunyadi+t%C3%A9r+11.,+Hungary&sll=51.151786,10.415039&sspn=18.620805,52.163086&ie=UTF8&hq=Silver+Hotel+Budapest+City+Center+***,&hnear=1067+Budapest,+VI.+ker%C3%BClet,+Hunyadi+t%C3%A9r+11,+Ungarn&t=h&z=16 Map]

*Christoph Noack, User Experience Project Co-Lead 

[[Category:Marketing]]

OOoCon2010Stay

2010-08-25T20:08:01Z

LouisSuarez:

__NOTOC__ {{DISPLAYTITLE:Where do you stay at OOoCon 2010?}} [[Category:OOoCon2010]] [[Category:OOoCon]]

= Introduction =

In order to plan meetings and have common places to gather together, we'll try to collect all the hotels where OOoCon participants will stay. If it doesn't exist in the list already, please add your hotel and name to the list, if you want to share the information with the public. You can also add your e-mail address and mobile number, if you want people to reach you - the more the merrier ;-)

The OOoCon organizers would like to encourage everyone to add their details to this wiki page. Please note that all information on this wiki is public, and once published, '''cannot''' be removed anymore, not even by the administrators, so be '''careful''' with what you add.

= Stays =

The format of the entries is name, role, e-mail address, mobile phone number, arrival and departure

==Hotel Opera Garden, H-1065 Budapest, Hajós u. 24.==
[http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?client=safari&rls=en&oe=UTF-8&redir_esc=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=opera+garden+hotel+budapest&fb=1&gl=uk&hq=opera+garden+hotel&hnear=Budapest,+Hungary&cid=0,0,18347281351441338242&ei=yXR1TPnmHseQswbK-bXuBQ&sa=X&oi=local_result&ct=image&resnum=2&ved=0CCMQnwIwAQ]

*Louis Suarez-Potts, Community Development Manager, [mailto:louis.suarez-potts@oracle.com], 30 August-6 September.

== Hotel Boutique Bristol, Kenyérmező u. 4. ==

[http://maps.google.de/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=1081+Budapest,+VIII.+ker%C3%BClet,+Keny%C3%A9rmez%C5%91+utca+4,+Ungarn&daddr=1051+Budapest,+N%C3%A1dor+utca+9,+Ungarn&hl=de&geocode=Fd7E1AIdsBgjASkxSDqiYdxBRzHBjYYUAyHm4Q%3BFbXM1AIdoasiASkn0F0LFdxBRzEgEaZnEyeKJQ&mra=ls&sll=47.498068,19.064498&sspn=0.020963,0.038581&ie=UTF8&ll=47.498648,19.063296&spn=0.020963,0.038581&z=15 Google Map Route to Hotel Boutique Bristol]

*Florian Effenberger, Marketing Project Lead, [mailto:floeff@openoffice.org floeff@openoffice.org], +49 151 14424108, 29-Aug, 4-Sep
*Peter Junge, Marketing Project co-Lead, [mailto:pj@openoffice.org pj@openoffice.org], +49 1578 8615057, 29-Aug, 6-Sep

== Camping Haller, Haller utca 27. ==

[http://maps.google.de/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Haller+utca&daddr=1051+Budapest,+N%C3%A1dor+utca+9,+Ungarn&hl=de&geocode=Fa9w1AIdKi8jAQ%3BFbXM1AIdoasiASkn0F0LFdxBRzEgEaZnEyeKJQ&mra=dme&mrcr=0&mrsp=0&sz=16&sll=47.476593,19.0816&sspn=0.010486,0.01929&ie=UTF8&ll=47.489021,19.066257&spn=0.041933,0.077162&z=14 Google Map Route to Camping Haller]

*Stefan Weigel, no rank - not title, [[Special:EmailUser/Stefanw|StefanW]], 31-Aug, 4-Sep

== Hotel Eurostars Center, Kossuth Lajos u. 7-9. ==

[http://maps.google.es/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=1051+Budapest,+N%C3%A1dor+utca+9,+Magyarorsz%C3%A1g+(CEU)&daddr=1053+Budapest,+V.+ker%C3%BClet,+Kossuth+Lajos+utca+7,+Hungr%C3%ADa&hl=es&geocode=FbXM1AIdoasiASFviAnhB6gN3Ckn0F0LFdxBRzEgEaZnEyeKJQ%3BFXmy1AIdd8wiASkvQb2ZQ9xBRzGC63PU5eFNQg&mra=pe&mrcr=0&sll=47.507092,19.066579&sspn=0.246292,0.441513&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=16 Google Map Route to Hotel Eurostars Center]

*Manu Arjó, VicePresident Business Development at [http://www.sironta.com Sironta], [mailto:manuel.arjo@sironta.com manuel.arjo@sironta.com], +34 933 535 627, 2-Sep, 3-Sep
*Arthur Buijs, NL.OpenOffice.org Co-Lead, [mailto:arthur@artietee.nl arthur@artietee.nl], +31 (0)654668131, 28-Aug, 3-Sep

== CEU Residence Center ==

[http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=1106+Budapest,+Kerepesi+%FAt+87,+Magyarorsz%E1g&daddr=1051+Budapest,+N%E1dor+utca+9,+Magyarorsz%E1g+(CEU)&geocode=Fd_f1AIdMEokASndS7kXqcRBRzEDYtkELVo0bw%3BFbXM1AIdoasiASkn0F0LFdxBRzEgEaZnEyeKJQ&mra=prev&sll=47.499835,19.10243&sspn=0.051608,0.154324&ie=UTF8&z=13 Google Map Route to CEU]

*Andrea Pescetti, Italian N-L Project Lead, pescetti@ooo, - , 31 Aug, 3 Sep
*Gustavo Buzzatti Pacheco, BrOffice.org/OpenOffice.org Brazil, [mailto:gbpacheco@openoffice.org gbpacheco@openoffice.org], +555184029927, 29-Aug, 5-Sep
*Leo Moons, Translator/member nl.openoffice.org, Belgian, [mailto:vpanter@openoffice.org vpanter@openoffice.org], +32 475 241646, 30 Aug - 4 Sep
*Cor Nouws, community representative Community Council, marketing nl-OpenOffice.org, owner Nou&Off, Netherlands,[mailto:oolst@nouenoff.nl oolst@nouenoff.nl], + 31 625 207001, 29/30 Aug - 5 Sep
*Samphan Raruenrom, Thai N-L Project Lead, samphan at openoffice.org, 29 Aug - 4 Sep
*Tatat Thanakanok, Thai N-L Project member, tatat at openoffice.org, 29 Aug - 4 Sep
*Jan de Jong, Translator/member nl.openoffice.org, Netherlands, [mailto:pcs-ooo@live.nl pcs-ooo@live.nl] +31623798086, 30 aug - 4 sep
*Javier Sola, KhmerOS Project. Cambodia - 31st Aug - 3 Sep

== Alta Moda Fashion Hotel, 13 Nádor Utca 1051. ==

[http://www.splendia.com/en/alta-moda-fashion-hotel-budapest.html#map Map]

*[http://www4.plala.or.jp/k21/ Katsuya Kobayashi], Marketing Project member, [[Special:EmailUser/kynh|kynh]], , 30-Aug, 4-Sep
*Rony G. Flatscher, WU Wien, 31 Aug - 4 Sep

== Mercure Budapest Duna, Soroksari ut 12 ==

[http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Mercure+Budapest+Duna&hl=en&cd=1&ei=_bliTLXII5DyObH1mBk&vps=2&jsv=264c&sll=47.4793,19.0684&sspn=1.258326,3.140552&ie=UTF8&lr=lang_pt|lang_en&view=map&cid=15417917116959416148&iwloc=A&ved=0CIkBEKUG&sa=X Map]

*Leif Lodahl, Danish language coord, lodahl@openoffice.org
*Paulo Vilela, Marketing OOo Portugal, [mailto:pvilela@openoffice.org pvilela@openoffice.org], +351912591908, 30-Aug to 3- Sep
*Clayton Cornell, Documentation Project co-lead, [mailto:ccornell@openoffice.org ccornell@openoffice.org], 13 Aug to 03 Sept
*Chao Sun, Architect of Redflag2000, [mailto:sunchao@redoffice.com], 30Aug to 03Sept
*Heng Li, Proformance project co-lead, [mailto:liheng@redoffice.com], 30Aug to 03Sept
*Yu Liu, ODF project developer, [mailto:liuyu@redoffice.com], 30Aug to 03Sept

== Mercure Budapest Buda, Krisztina Korut 41-43 ==

[http://maps.google.com/maps/place?cid=15227343547741076547&q=Mercure+Budapest+Buda+Krisztina+Korut+41-43+Hungary&hl=en&cd=1&ei=-BtjTI7XGYz8Oajx0dUC&sig2=NO51ehG49IYr2_G81o43Hw&dtab=0&sll=47.4987,19.0272&sspn=0.071946,0.1348&ie=UTF8&ll=47.51523,19.000769&spn=0,0&z=14&iwloc=A Map]

*Dmitri Popov, Freelance contributor, [mailto:dmpop@openoffice.org dmpop@openoffice.org], August 30 - September 3

== Hotel Ambra, Kis Diofa 13 ==

[http://maps.google.it/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=it&geocode=&q=kis+diofa+13,+budapest&sll=47.508853,19.067116&sspn=0.053107,0.168743&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Budapest,+7+ker%C3%BClet,+Kis+Di%C3%B3fa+utca+13,+Ungheria&z=16 Google Map of Location]

*Italo Vignoli, President Associazione PLIO (Italian NLP), [mailto:italo@italovignoli.com italo@italovignoli.com], +39 348 5653829, August 31 - September 4

== InterContinental Budapest Hotel, Apáczai Csere János utca 12-14 ==

*Rob Weir, [mailto:rob@robweir.com rob@robweir.com], +1 978 467 5445, Aug 30th-Sept 4th
*Don Harbison

== Silver Hotel Budapest City Center, VI., Hunyadi tér 11. ==

[http://maps.google.de/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=de&geocode=&q=Silver+Hotel+Budapest+City+Center+***,+1067+Budapest,+Hunyadi+t%C3%A9r+11.,+Hungary&sll=51.151786,10.415039&sspn=18.620805,52.163086&ie=UTF8&hq=Silver+Hotel+Budapest+City+Center+***,&hnear=1067+Budapest,+VI.+ker%C3%BClet,+Hunyadi+t%C3%A9r+11,+Ungarn&t=h&z=16 Map]

*Christoph Noack, User Experience Project Co-Lead 

[[Category:Marketing]]

Community Council/Minutes

2010-06-10T21:41:53Z

LouisSuarez:

{{Community_Council}}
= Minutes of Meetings =

== 2010-06-10 ==

=== IRC Log ===

See  [[Community Council Log 20100610]]

== 2010-05-20 ==

=== IRC Log ===

See  [[Community Council Log 20100520]]

=== Minutes ===

tbd

== 2010-04-29 ==

=== IRC Log ===

See [[Community Council Log 20100429]]

=== Minutes ===

Note: Council members didn't update their actions items appropriately. If you have doubts, please have a look at the IRC Log (above).

{| class="prettytable sortable"
|-
! scope="col" | ID 
! scope="col" | Topic 
! scope="col" | Status 
! scope="col" | Responsible 
! scope="col" | Last Update 
! scope="col" | Details 
|-
| 0 
| List of Action Items of previous meeting for approval 
| ''none'' 
| all 
| 2010-04-29 
|
*Meeting minutes of previous meeting at [[Community Council/Minutes#2010-04-15|Minutes#2010-04-15]] 
*Result: Minutes have been approved.

|-
| 2010-03-04#1 
| CC Elections (Martin, Pavel, John) 
| Finalized 
| Louis, Christoph 
| 2010-04-29 
|
*Voting phase has been finished. Two of the three candidates have been confirmed. Final result is available here: [[Community Council/Elections/2010-03|Elections/2010-03]]. 
**Follow-up action item 2010-04-23#1 to decide how to deal with the unconfirmed "Product Development Representative". 
**According to meeting 2010-04-01: Christoph will update the Election Process bylaw once the current election is over. The change will describe the exclusive use of dedicated tooling for the voting, e.g. LimeSurvey. The version of the bylaw will be changed from 1.0 to 1.1. 
*Result 2010-04-29: Item has been finalized.

|-
| 2010-03-04#2 
| Refresh Incubator and NLC Project processes 
| Accepted 
| Louis 
| 2010-03-18 
|
*No new proposal available. Louis will work on that. 
*Next steps: Will be discussed in next meeting.

|-
| 2010-03-04#3 
| Publicize the open slot at the start of the CC meetings 
| Accepted 
| Martin 
| 2010-03-18 
|
*According to Martin, the current proposal has to be reworked. It is being worked on. 
*It has been clarified to provide this "open slot" on a regular basis (e.g. monthly, or each CC meeting). 
*Proposal: Martin will provide a new proposal in the next few days. 

|-
| 2010-03-04#4 
| Work with Clayton on estimates for Developing developers documentation 
| Accepted 
| Jürgen 
| 2010-05-20 
|
*New proposal has been sent to the list by Jürgen ([http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2505 here]). The basic idea is to provide bounties instead of contracting one writer. 
*For any proposal, the development budget may require an upgrade. Matthias, Stefan and Martin will provide a proposal (Cor will join, see 2010-03-04#5).
*Juergen talked with Clayton and they will come up with some drafts for the first bounties and in relation to the drafts with a set of basic rules/guideline that are necessary to run such a bounty program (see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2540 mail on council-discuss]). 
*Next steps:
**Juergen will summarize some information on a wiki page. 
**Budget discussion will be continued in next CC meeting. It is assumed that there will be more information on how much will be provided for each work package.

*No real update, simply because the lack of time
**Clayton and i are working on a wiki page to present/describe the idea of bounties and to present the first 4-5 bounty ideas. I expect that we can publish it soon, currently we make slow progress because of vacation or general unavailability.
*We have prepared the [http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Bounties initial wiki] page (still a draft) and have described the first two bounties. More bounties will coming soon ... We already have some more ideas but we want to talk with some people about it before we put it as a bounty in the wiki. Important at this point was to define the basic rules and conditions for the bounty program. If there are no complaints we plan to announce the bounty program next week.

|-
| 2010-03-04#5 
| OpenOffice.org Internship (was: Talk to Google about 2010 SoC) 
| Accepted 
| Cor, John 
| 2010-03-18 
|
*We have been informed that Google refuses projects from OpenOffice.org. It had been decided before to go for the own "OpenOffice.org Internship" in that situation.
*A draft for the internship program is worked out ([[OpenOffice.org Internship|here]]). All CC members are asked to comment this proposal on the CC mailing list before Tuesday March 23.
*Budget may be possible issue, since required for here and for documentation (AI 2010-03-04#4). Cor will join the discussion to work on a proposal.
*Next steps:
**Cor joins the the budget discussion.
**Prepare approval and launch asap.

|-
| 2010-03-04#6 
| Talk to Education Project Leads about structure and remit 
| Accepted 
| John, Cor 
| 2010-03-18 
|
*Cor to prepare a draft and present it to the Community Council. Nothing done yet.
*Next steps: Will be discussed in next meeting. 

|-
| 2010-04-01#7 
| Talk to NLC about ‘NLC of the Month’ for OOo Newsletter 
| Accepted 
| Charles 
| 2010-04-01 
|
*Inteview with the Irish team has been done. No further information available by his deputy (Leif). 
*Next steps: Charles has scheduled the next project to be interviewed (the Sinhala project). He would also like to discuss how to extend the media impact of these interviews. 

|-
| 2010-04-01#1 
| Community situation 
| Accepted 
| All 
| 2010-04-01 
|
*What do we see, where are we, what are we going to do about it.

|-
| 2010-04-29#1
| CC Election (Product Development Representative)
| Accepted
|   Christoph
| 2010-04-29
|
*Initial situation: In the election [http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Elections/2010-03 2010-03], one of the three roles hasn't been confirmed. How to proceed?
*Proposal: Re-do the whole election cycle for the "Product Development Representative". 
*Result: All agreed to proposal.
*Next steps:
**Christoph will create a new wiki page for the elections 2010-05.
**Elections itself will be started as soon as possible.

|-
| 2010-04-29#2 
| Missing OOo desktop presence
| New 
|   ??? 
| 2010-04-29 
|
*Request by a community member to discuss / decide the following question: "''Why should OpenOffice.org give away it's presence on the user's desktop - the main place to be recognized by the people - only to support the "application independency" of ODF?'' A Sun employee stated "The idea of supporting ODF as a application independent open standard is the priority." This leads / will lead to changes with regard to the document and application icon design. The current ODF "only" icons seem to be undesired by the community. Original request to the CC on ooo-discuss: [http://www.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=65958 initial mail (2010-04-14)], [http://www.openoffice.org/servlets/BrowseList?listName=discuss&from=2361081&to=2361081&count=28&by=thread&first=1&windowSize=1000 full mail thread]
*Discussion:
**Some members stated that the request should be "more actionable" and "better framed" to be decided by the community.
**Proposal has been made to forward the request to council-discuss to propose how to proceed.
*Next steps: Christoph will forward the request to council-discuss. 

|-
| 2010-04-29#3
| CC Meetings Calendar
| Finalized
| Christoph
| 2010-04-29
|
*Two months ago, the CC decided to meet each 2 weeks instead of 3 for a "test period". Now there is a need to decide how to continue and to update the [http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Calendar CC meeting calender] page.
*Result: We proceed with the 3 weeks schedule for the next meetings.
*Next steps: [[Community Council/Calendar|CC meeting calender]] has been updated. 

|}

== 2010-04-15 ==

=== IRC Log ===

See [[Community Council Log 20100415]]

=== Minutes ===

To be done (hopefully). In the meantime, you may refer to the [http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/w/index.php?title=Community_Council/Agenda&oldid=162224 Agenda and Work status page (2010-04-01)].

== 2010-04-01 ==

=== IRC Log ===

See [[Community Council Log 20100401]]

=== Minutes ===

tbd

== 2010-03-18 ==

=== IRC Log ===

See [[Community Council Log 20100318]]

=== Minutes ===

{| class="prettytable sortable"
|-
! scope="col" | ID 
! scope="col" | Topic 
! scope="col" | Status 
! scope="col" | Responsible 
! scope="col" | Last Update 
! scope="col" | Details 
|-
| 0 
| List of Action Items of previous meeting for approval 
| ''none'' 
| all 
| ''none'' 
|
*No meeting minutes available for 2010-03-04 
*Instead, all agreed on the minutes log [[Community Council Log 20100304]]

|-
| 2010-03-04#1 
| CC Elections (Martin, Pavel, John) 
| Accepted 
| Louis, Christoph 
| 2010-03-18 
|
*Mail for nominations have been done; several nominations received. 
*Next phase, introduction of the nominees, will be started.
*Overall status can be tracked at [[Community Council/Elections/2010-03|Elections/2010-03]].
*Next steps: Christoph will announce the next phase "introduction". 

|-
| 2010-03-04#2 
| Refresh Incubator and NLC Project processes 
| Accepted 
| Louis 
| 2010-03-18 
|
*No new proposal available. Louis will work on that. 
*Next steps: Will be discussed in next meeting.

|-
| 2010-03-04#3 
| Publicize the open slot at the start of the CC meetings 
| Accepted 
| Martin 
| 2010-03-18 
|
*According to Martin, the current proposal has to be reworked. It is being worked on. 
*It has been clarified to provide this "open slot" on a regular basis (e.g. monthly, or each CC meeting). 
*Proposal: Martin will provide a new proposal in the next few days. 

|-
| 2010-03-04#4 
| Work with Clayton on estimates for Developing developers documentation 
| Accepted 
| Jürgen 
| 2010-03-18 
|
*New proposal has been sent to the list by Jürgen ([http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2505 here]). The basic idea is to provide bounties instead of contracting one writer. 
*All CC members are asked to comment the proposal on the CC mailing list.
*For any proposal, the development budget may require an upgrade. Matthias, Stefan and Martin will provide a proposal (Cor will join, see 2010-03-04#5).
*Reminder to keep an eye how to provide consistency for the different pieces. Will be discussed with Clayton. 
*Next steps: Ongoing discussion on the CC mailing list. 

|-
| 2010-03-04#5 
| OpenOffice.org Internship (was: Talk to Google about 2010 SoC) 
| Accepted 
| Cor, John 
| 2010-03-18 
|
*We have been informed that Google refuses projects from OpenOffice.org. It had been decided before to go for the own "OpenOffice.org Internship" in that situation.
*A draft for the internship program is worked out ([[OpenOffice.org Internship|here]]). All CC members are asked to comment this proposal on the CC mailing list before Tuesday March 23.
*Budget may be possible issue, since required for here and for documentation (AI 2010-03-04#4). Cor will join the discussion to work on a proposal.
*Next steps:
**Cor joins the the budget discussion.
**Prepare approval and launch asap.

|-
| 2010-03-04#6 
| Talk to Education Project Leads about structure and remit 
| Accepted 
| John, Cor 
| 2010-03-18 
|
*Cor to prepare a draft and present it to the Community Council. Nothing done yet.
*Next steps: Will be discussed in next meeting. 

|-
| 2010-03-04#7 
| Talk to NLC about ‘NLC of the Month’ for OOo Newsletter 
| Accepted 
| Charles 
| 2010-03-18 
|
*Inteview with the Irish team has been done. No further information available by his deputy (Leif). 
*Next steps: Charles is asked to provide updates on the CC mailing list. 

|-
| 2010-03-04#8 
| New template for CC meetings 
| Finalized 
| Christoph 
| 2010-03-18 
|
*Current proposal is available at [[Community Council/Proposed Improvements|Proposed_Improvements]]. 
*Everyone (except Leif, deputy of Charles) voted to use it from now on. Charles may add comments in the next few days, if required.
*Next steps: Christoph will update the minutes according the new template. Accepted proposal will be moved to a more "official" wiki page. Announcement to be made on the CC mailing list.

|-
| 2010-03-04#9 
| Refresh Budget Pages on the Wiki with input from Matthias 
| Finalized 
| John 
| 2010-03-18 
|
*Was already finalized in last meeting.
*Next steps: none

|-
| 2010-03-04#10 
| Confirm/discuss [[Community Council/Calendar|proposed dates]] for future council meetings 
| Finalized 
| All 
| 2010-03-18 
|
*Was already finalized in some of the previous meetings.
*Reminder: Request confirmation for future dates (e.g. end of April 2010)
*Next steps: none 

|-
| 2010-03-04#11 
| Trademark 
| Rejected 
| Stefan 
| 2010-03-18 
|
*No updates; will be rejected for now. 
*Next steps: Stefan will re-open this item when a revised policy is available.

|}

== 2010-03-04 ==

=== IRC Log ===

See [[Community Council Log 20100304]]

=== Minutes ===

Minutes and action items are not available.

=== Agenda Items ===

Since no meeting minutes are available, the original agenda will be used instead.

{| class="prettytable"
|-
! No
! Action Item
! Owner
! Due Date
! Additional Information 
|-
| 0
| List of Action Items of previous meeting for approval
| All 
| 
| See [[Community Council/Minutes#2010-02-18|Community_Council/Minutes#2010-02-18]]. 
|-
| 1 
| Hold CC Elections (Martin, Pavel, John)
| Louis / Christoph 
| 
|
2010-03-03: Louis sent the mail for nomination on 2010-02-27. The nomination phase will end 2010-03-15 15 at 24:00 UTC. 

Next Steps: ???

|-
| 2 
| Refresh Incubator and NLC Project processes
| Louis
| 
| 
|-
| 3 
| Publicise the open slot at the start of the CC meetings
| Louis 
| 
| 
|-
| 4
| Work with Clayton on estimates for ''Developing developers'' documentation
| Jürgen 
| 
|
Next Steps: 

*back to rework on a new proposal how to move forward
*Based on a further talk with Clayton Juergen has sent out a new idea of a bounty program on the discuss@council.openoffice.org mailing list. The main idea of it is to define many smaller and more fine grained projects and make them publicly available. Each projects will be honored with a appropriate amount of money depending on the project. For more details see the email. 

|-
| 5
| Talk to Google about 2010 SoC
| John
| 
|
Next Steps: 

*Cor and John will keep the Community Council updated. 
*The topic will be raised in the next meeting which will be held in two weeks of time. 

|-
| 6
| Talk to Education Project Leads about structure and remit
| Cor
| 
|
Next Step: Cor will prepare a draft and present it to the Community Council. 

|-
| 7
| Talk to NLC about ‘NLC of the Month’ for OOo Newsletter
| Charles
| 
|
Next Steps: 

*Charles currently prepares an interview (source: internal mail). 
*Action item will be kept "in progress" until Charles is back. 

|-
| 8
| New template for CC meetings
| Christoph
| 
|
2010-03-02: The revised proposal is available at [[Community Council/Proposed Improvements|Proposed_Improvements]]. It has been refined to make working with it easier and more efficient. Basically, it is now a continuous table which can be sorted according to several status labels. Originally, I proposed to use different sections to markup the status of action items. Additionally, the proposal to move the "record date" to the action item ID has been incorporated. Please review the proposal - or even better - accept it :-) 

Next Steps:

*If accepted, then the current agenda wiki page will be transformed to respect the proposed format. Additionally, the content of the "Proposed Improvements" page will be moved to a more "official" place.
*If rejected, then ...nothing.
*JSC: +1

|-
| 9
| Refresh Budget Pages on the Wiki with input from Matthias
| John
| 
|
Next Step: John will work on that until the next meeting. 

|-
| 10
| Confirm/discuss [http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Calendar proposed dates] for future council meetings
| Christoph
| 2010-03-04 
|
2010-03-02: The revised proposal is available at [[Community Council/Calendar|Community Council Calendar]].

Next Steps: None planned. 

|-
| 11 
| Trademark
| Stefan 
| 
|
Next Step: Stefan will provide some updates in the next meeting.

|}

== 2010-02-18 ==

=== IRC Log ===

List of attendees and IRC log can be found here: [[Community Council Log 20100218]]

=== Minutes ===

{| class="prettytable"
|-
! No
! Action Item
! Owner
! Status
! Additional Information 
|-
| 0
| List of Action Items of previous meeting for approval
| - 
| Approved 
| 
|-
| 1 
| Prepare wiki page for ‘Events’
| Louis
| Done
|
List of events interesting for OpenOffice.org available at [http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Events#Year_2010 Events, Year 2010]. From now on, it needs to be completed by MarCon.

|-
| 2 
| Hold CC Elections (Martin, Pavel, John)
| Louis / Christoph 
| In progress 
|
Louis is currently preparing the initial email "New election for Community Council". A second draft is already available and feedback has already been provided. 

Next Steps: 

*Louis is asked to send the initial email - if its ready. 
*Christoph will have a look at the election process and (support to) trigger the next steps. 

|-
| 3 
| Refresh Incubator and NLC Project processes
| Louis
| 
| No update. Will be discussed in next meeting. 
|-
| 4 
| Publicise the open slot at the start of the CC meetings
| Louis 
| 
| No update. Will be discussed in next meeting. 
|-
| 5
| Work with Clayton on estimates for ''Developing developers'' documentation
| Jürgen 
| In progress
|
Clayton has send a first draft to council-discuss ([http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2454 Draft of the Community Council proposal to hire a Tech Writer]), we need some confirmation how to proceed keeping the proposed quote in mind. 

Discussion: 

*The costs are estimated to be roughly 40 K USD. It has been agreed that this seems to be a realistic estimation and maintainability is a very important question. 
*These costs do not fit in any currently planned budget. Some proposals were made how this work might be split / separated to get more manageable pieces (in terms of budget). But it has also been raised that it might only make sense if it is worked on the full documentation. 
*It has been agreed that - before any further decision can be made - all people should have a closer look at Clayton's proposal. 

Next Steps: 

*All CC members will have a closer look at the proposal (link above). (Added by Christoph: Everybody is free to provide proposals how to proceed.) 
*A funding proposal request has to be worked out for the the next meeting. 

|-
| 6
| Talk to Google about 2010 SoC
| John
| In progress 
|
John has sent a mail to the Google representative Leslie Hawthorn a couple of days ago. We are waiting for an answer.

Discussion: It has been raised that the applications for "would-be mentoring applications" is open from 2010-03-08 to 2010-03-12 ([http://groups.google.com/group/google-summer-of-code-discuss/browse_thread/thread/d839c0b02ac15b3f source]). 

Next Steps: 

*Cor and John will keep the Community Council updated. 
*The topic will be raised in the next meeting which will be held in two weeks of time. 

|-
| 7
| Talk to Education Project Leads about structure and remit
| Cor
| In progress 
|
Next Step: Cor will prepare a draft and present it to the Community Council. 

|-
| 8
| Talk to NLC about ‘NLC of the Month’ for OOo Newsletter
| Charles
| In progress 
|
Announcement has been made on the NLC list. One "volunteer" project found for the first month month, the Irish Gaelic project. 

Discussion (a little bit off-topic): 

*John did also inform the responsible for the OpenOffice.org Newsletter (Kay Koll) to use some information from the Community Council minutes. 
*The question was raised how to support Kay to ensure valid information. Sophie stated that usually the newsletter draft is reviewed. 

Next Steps: 

*Charles currently prepares an interview (source: internal mail). 
*Action item will be kept "in progress" until Charles is back. 

|-
| 9
| Talk to Marketing Project about OOoCon support for remote attendees
| John
| Done 
|
Request has been discussed with the Hungarian OOoCon team and with MarCon. The proposal that the MP should set up a 'permanent' arrangement for video for all OOoCons may need finance - probably next year's budget though. The Marketing Project is still discussing if this is a better approach. 

Discussion (a little bit off-topic): 

*Short discussion of whether the location of the OOoCons should be fixed or not. A comparison has been made to FOSDEM. 
*The action item will be closed, because the Marketing Project is aware of this issue. 

|-
| 10
| Reply to FSF Extensions Repository
| Louis
| Done 
| Louis sent the mail and the FSF (Peter Brown) already replied. 
|-
| 11
| New template for CC meetings
| Christoph
| In progress 
|
Some of the proposals from the face-to-face meeting in Hamburg have been summarized. Work on a draft has been started. It is available at [http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Proposed_Improvements Community_Council/Proposed_Improvements]. 

Discussion: 

*Cor estimated this work to be close-to-final. 
*A discussion on how to name the Action Items. The basic requirement is to identify the "age" of the items. Several proposals have been made. 

Next Steps: 

*Everybody will have a look at the draft and provide feedback (if required). 
*Christoph will finalize the proposal and present it in the next meeting to officially accept or reject it. 

|-
| 12
| Refresh Budget Pages on the Wiki with input from Matthias
| John
| 
|
No update. John will work on that until the next meeting. 

Remark: The budget has already been accepted in the face-to-face meeting in Hamburg.

|-
| 13
| Confirm/discuss [http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Calendar proposed dates] for future council meetings
| Christoph
| In progress 
|
A first proposal is available at [[Community Council/Calendar|Community Council Calendar]].

Discussion:

*According to Stefan the need for information might be higher during the next months.
*It has been proposed to change the schedule so that the Community Council meetings will be held each two weeks. This applies to the meetings in the next two months to check if this is applicable.
*Some people expressed the demand to reduce the meeting time to about one hour.

Next Step: Christoph will re-work the proposed dates and inform the Community Council members. 

|-
|
| Update of the OpenOffice.org logo and the branding initiative
| -
|
|
Additional discussion.

Discussion:

*Two proposals have been presented to the branding working group.
*A due date has been proposed to finalize the effort.

|-
|
| Trademark
| -
|
|
Additional discussion.

Discussion: Stefan will provide some updates in the next meeting.

|}

 

== 2010-02-04/05 (F2F Meeting in Hamburg) ==

=== Attendees ===

{| class="prettytable"
|-
! Name
! Initials (not the OOo user name)
|-
| Martin Hollmichel
| MHo
|-
| Matthias Huetsch
| MHu
|-
| Cor Nouws
| CNou
|-
| Christoph Noack
| CN
|-
| Louis Suarez-Potts
| LS-P
|-
| Charles-H. Schulz
| C-HS
|-
| John McCreesh
| JPMcC
|-
| Stefan Taxhet
| ST
|-
| Jürgen Schmidt
| JS
|}

=== Minutes ===

==== Status Updates from CC Sponsored Activities ====

'''Trademark Policy'''

ST reported that the draft trademark policy was being reviewed by Sun Legal, but no major changes were expected.

'''Developing developers'''

''The CC welcomed Clayton Cornell for this item'' 

The CC discussed three areas where documentation could be improved: 

*how-to get into core development (technical) 
*how-to engage in the community development process (people) 
*how-to get into extension development (technical) 

There was a discussion on the merits of traditional paper-based documentation versus webinars etc for each of these. 

The CC agreed to focus on extensions, possibly based on Per’s current work with Kai on a gallery extension. Clayton was actioned to come back with a budgetary estimate for the work.

The CC agreed to talk to Google to see whether the Oracle takeover meant that OOo would be accepted this year for the Summer of Code exercise. If not, the CC should press on with its own internship exercise.

'''Pootle Infrastructure'''

''The CC welcomed Rafaella Braconi for this item''

*A new Pootle sys admin was now in place and was actively managing the system
*Some background scripts had been removed. Feedback from the engineers was that performance of Pootle was not hardware constrained.
*the latest version of Pootle would be installed as soon as OOo 3.2 was released

Overall the position had stabilised. Engagement with the Pootle developers was good. We should look to get feedback from the community again in Q2 after the software upgrade. The CC would be willing to help the Pootle team carry out developments to meet OOo requirements if required.

'''Download Infrastructure Migration (MirrorBrain)'''

JPMcC reported that the Marketing Project download reporting system was now being fed from both Bouncer and MirrorBrain, and 3.2 would be released via MirrorBrain. He thanked the MirrorBrain team for their help in meeting OOo’s requirements.

'''Site Infrastructure Migration (Kenai)'''

ST reported on the project to migrate OOo from Collabnet to Kenai. Kenai is based on open source technologies such as Zoomla, Bugzilla, and Rails, but will be managed as a service by a team within Oracle. The OOo Project Leads and Web Project are now actively engaged on the migration which is planned to have three phases:

*fit-gap analysis of Kenai features vs OOo requirements (underway)
*any resulting OOo ‘must have’ features implemented in Kenai
*data migration scripts developed and proven (underway - Collabnet data dump received)

Migration must be complete by end of June. ST believed this was ambitious but achievable, as a pilot project (netbeans.org) had already migrated successfully. There would still be a requirement for a ‘*.services.oo.o’ for OOo-specific requirements.

Link: [http://kenai.com/projects/ooo-migration/pages/Home http://kenai.com/projects/ooo-migration/pages/Home]

==== Agenda Items ====

The additional agenda can be found [[Community Council/Agenda/Face2Face|here]].

'''Oracle / Sun'''

The CC noted the contents of the recent webcasts by Oracle, and that the formal Legal Entity Consolidation of Oracle and Sun Microsystems was due this month. The CC had always valued the relationship with Sun, and looked forward to a similarly fruitful relationship with Oracle. The CC extended their best wishes to the formerly Sun-sponsored community contributors in their new home as a global business unit within Oracle Corporation. The CC had no comment to make on Oracle’s announcement of a commercial ‘Cloud Office’ product other than to state new entrants are always welcome to the ODF ecosystem.

'''Education Project'''

Following on from the ''Developing developers'' initiative and the work with Seneca, the CC debated where these activities should be best placed with OOo. The Education Project would seem an obvious home, but the project had recently undertaken a number of initiatives which were already taking it in several different directions. The CC agreed to talk to the project leads about the structure and remit of the project, to give greater focus and avoid conflicts with other projects.

'''Branding'''

''The CC welcomed Rosana Ardila Biela for this item''

RAB gave a presentation on the work to refresh and relaunch the visual identity of OOo, as part of a branding initiative within the Marketing Project. She presented a revamped OOo logo which was still work in progress within the working party. The CC warmly welcomed the activity, and encouraged the team to reach consensus on a new logo. If the team was unable to do so, then they should present options to the CC for another decision / route - however, it was far better for the experts in the team to decide, rather than the amateurs on the CC!

'''Native Language Community development'''

The CC discussed ways of encouraging NLC development.

*Requests for financial support for Regional Conferences would be considered on a case by case basis. Funding would be start-up only, as conferences are expected to be self-financing. The CC recommends that OOo teams should be encouraged to join forces with other open-source projects to share the costs and efforts involved in running conferences.
*NLCs should be encouraged to volunteer for a ‘Native Language Community of the Month’ spotlight in the OOo Newsletter - C-HS to organise.
*The CC discussed direct funding of new localisations e.g. at the request of a government. Past experience suggested these did not lead to sustainable versions. The success of the NLC within OOo was based round a team of activists providing a complete package of localisation, QA, training, support, etc.

'''‘Greening’ OpenOffice.org'''

The CC discussed ways of minimising OOo’s carbon footprint. OOo’s infrastructure is mostly donated by third parties, which means the CC cannot make direct decisions about e.g. using only renewable electricity in datacentres. The CC agreed that OOoCon should be made more accessible for remote attendees as a priority, e.g. improved web streaming, dial-in access to sessions, mandatory advance submission of papers, etc. Support of remote attendees should be made a key deciding factor in awarding the 2011 OOoCon. The Marketing Project was also asked to consider options - e.g. should the MP be responsible for a web capability centrally every year rather than rely on local teams?

'''Extensions Repository'''

The Free Software Foundation (FSF) has notified the CC that the OOo Extensions Repository does not conform to FSF principles, as it hosts ‘non-free’ software. As a result, any software distributions wishing to conform to FSF standards should not make use of the OOo Repository. The CC agreed that licence information could be improved on the Repository, as this is an important factor people should consider when choosing extensions. The FSF would be welcomed to help in providing this sorting / filtering mechanism. However, the CC would not support a forking or partitioning of the Repository to exclude ‘non-free’ extensions. OOo respects the right of its users to make their own informed choice of software, and believes this is best achieved by a single Repository offering a full selection of extensions.

'''Community Council Effectiveness'''

CC members used the opportunity of this face to face meeting to brainstorm high and low points of 2009, and consider community goals for 2010/2011. An offline presentation by CN highlighted the lack of a consistent trail from the overall OOo mission statement down to project or release goals.

The CC discussed issues with its current processes:

*CC members over-committing to Action Items, which they then fail to deliver
*the quality of the minutes, which makes it hard for community members to understand what the CC is doing
*the amount of time taken up on IRC presenting status reports, which could be more efficiently done in advance

The CC also needs to improve its communication with the Community. The CC agreed to experiment with starting meetings with a public session. The Minutes should be prepared in a form that anyone can understand without having to work through IRC logs. It should also be possible to copy and paste from the Minutes into the monthly OOo Newsletter to give a ‘This Month in the Community Council’ article.

CN (the current facilitator) agreed to work on a new meeting template including these improvements. JPMcC agreed to write up the minutes for this meeting.

'''2010 Budget'''

MHe reported that the current level of monthly donations was sufficient to support the proposed budget. The majority of these donations came from small contributions via PayPal. The CC agreed to adopt the draft budget for 2010 but review it quarterly to see if the allocation between different headings should be amended. MHe agreed to publish a summary of ‘actual vs budget’ quarterly on the wiki. JPMcC agreed to refresh the budget wiki pages for 2010. All projects should be encouraged to put forward proposals for using all the available funding.

==== Action Items ====

{| class="prettytable"
|-
! No
! Action
! Who
! When
! Status
|-
| 
| Prepare wiki page for ‘Events’
| LS-P
| 
| ongoing
|-
| 
| Hold CC Elections (Martin, Pavel, John)
| LS-P
| 
| transferred to CN with help from JMcC
|-
| 
| Refresh Incubator and NLC Project processes
| LS-P
| 
| 
|-
| 
| Publicise the open slot at the start of the CC meetings
| LS-P
| 
| 
|-
| 402.1
| Work with Clayton on estimates for ''Developing developers'' documentation
| JS
| 
| 
|-
| 402.2
| Talk to Google about 2010 SoC
| JPMcC
| 
| 
|-
| 402.3
| Talk to Education Project Leads about structure and remit
| CNou
| 
| 
|-
| 402.4
| Talk to NLC about ‘NLC of the Month’ for OOo Newsletter
| C-HS
| 
| 
|-
| 402.5
| Talk to Marketing Project about OOoCon support for remote attendees
| JPMcC
| 
| 
|-
| 402.6
| Reply to FSF Extensions Repository
| LS-P
| 
| 
|-
| 402.7
| New template for CC meetings
| CN
| 
| 
|-
| 402.8
| Refresh Budget Pages on the Wiki with input from MHe
| JPMcC
| 
| 
|}

 

== 2010-01-21 ==

=== IRC log ===

*[[Community Council Log 20100121]]

=== AIs ===

#Budget '''Louis: prepare a wiki page with events'''.
#Trademark Policy ''ST to take back to trademark list''
#Elections: first cycle is finished. Next steps:
##''Jürgen: Update council webpage'': (done)
##''Louis: Notification to broader community about results'' (done)
##'''Louis: Initiate phase 2 of the new election for Martin, Pavel, John.''': put on hold until after holidays, viz., post 6 jan
##'''Louis: advertise public part at #ooocouncilpub in the beginning before next council meeting''': Louis suggest we do it for next meeting.
#OpenOffice.org Internship
##'''Martin to put together a proposal for hiring a technical writer to document getting started on OOo development.''': open
##'''AI: "Winter of Code"; Cor to own and cry for help if required.'''; list to be used is mentoring @ ooo: open
#Distribution infrastructure (Bouncer); '''John''': We are on target to use mirrorbrain for 3.2; Louis proposed '''AI: that the CC publicly thanks the volunteer mirrors on the release of 3.2 for 9 plus years of heroic work including and esp. osuosl.'''
#l10n infrastructure (Pootle): ''ST: Pootle version upgrade imminent beginnig 2010''; ''AI: Owner?: find better tool that is a closer fit, if necessary''; '''Cor is going to contact Andre.'''
#Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC. '''Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list - carry forward'''; see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2101] to be inforporated in http://native-lang.openoffice.org/#terminus and http://www.openoffice.org/about_us/protocols_proposing.html
#Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects. '''Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting - carry forward'''
#Budget 2010: ''AI: all budget holders to submit their requests for a share of this 100k''. See proposal from Matthias [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2324]; '''Vote on Matthias' Proposal pending'''
#Council coordinator: '''choosing ST's successor''' (for the period from February 2010 - May 2010). (done)
#'''Juergen: Prepare Agenda for F2F Meeting in Hamburg, February 4/5;'''
#Ja added: How to handle impolite remarks in IssueTracker issues ? See issue 107456. Corresponding user ignores changes made to the issue he wrote. (done)

== Archived Meeting Minutes ==

The following pages archive the old meeting minutes of the Community Council:

*[[Community Council/Minutes 2009|Minutes 2009]]
*[[Community Council/Minutes 2008|Minutes 2008]]
*[[Community Council/Minutes 2007|Minutes 2007]]

[[Category:Community_Council]]

Community Council Log 20100429

2010-06-10T21:41:25Z

LouisSuarez:

=== IRC Log 2010-04-29 ===

*Supposed start time: 18:30 UTC
*Time offset −0400 UTC
*Location: IRC

== Attendees ==

*Christoph Noack (christoph_n)
*Eike Rathke (erAck)
*Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
*Louis Suárez-Potts (louis_to)
*Stefan Taxhet (stx12)

== Absent ==

*Cor Nouws (holiday)
*Charles-H. Schulz
*Olivier Hallot
*mystery candidate

== Log ==
<pre>[14:47:00] * mhu thinks we should start
[14:47:12] louis_to we did
[14:47:27] louis_to all in favour of prior minutes?
[14:47:48] louis_to oh---procedureal point: who is driving today's meeting? I can do it but is christoph_n wanting to?
[14:48:09] christoph_n Louis, go on :-) I just updated the agenda page.
[14:48:26] christoph_n Although I have to admit that there is no real agenda of the last meeting ...
[14:48:36] louis_to okay, thanks
[14:48:47] louis_to so we approve; any objections, please indicate now or in the list
[14:49:06] louis_to 1. : elections have taken place and results posted.k
[14:49:17] louis_to thanks to Stefan and the oithers for doing the work!
[14:49:33] louis_to especial thanks to Stefan, in fact, who served as commisaire
[14:50:00] stx12 no, that was christoph_n
[14:50:07] louis_to ah :-)
[14:50:12] louis_to then my hat is off to you, tooi
[14:50:16] christoph_n ;-)
[14:50:28] christoph_n However, can we "close" this AI? There is a follow-up...
[14:50:33] * mhu thinks, speaking of election results, we should welcome Eike, no ?
[14:50:44] louis_to yes, to both!
[14:50:49] louis_to and that was my next point
[14:50:59] louis_to Welcome to Eike!
[14:51:05] erAck thanks :)
[14:51:17] jsc i think we should inform Olivier about our frequent meetings ...
[14:51:18] stx12 you'll have fun with us ;-)
[14:51:21] louis_to I'd like to then issue a public welcome, as we did with the others
[14:51:27] christoph_n or make fun of us
[14:51:43] louis_to and only regret that we, or at least I, cannot be part of the anticipated beer party :-)
[14:53:59] jsc AI closed? Louis will send the official welcome mail
[14:55:29] louis_to yes
[14:55:36] louis_to today, in fact
[14:55:51] stx12 plus the thanks to our former members; btw now i have the chance to introduce martin as my stand-in
[14:56:20] louis_to yes.
[14:56:22] louis_to :-)
[14:56:36] jsc yes, and please include a link on our meeting schedule in the welcome mail
[14:56:41] louis_to the only item for elections reconsideration is the Produt Dev. Rep.
[14:56:48] louis_to thanks; good point
[14:57:01] louis_to I'll send it first to discuss@council
[14:57:45] louis_to by the way, I think using "accepted/ non accepted" is not quite so felicitous in English, and I'd prefer a slightly different terminology, but it's not important, really
[14:57:57] louis_to I refer to: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Elections/2010-03
[14:57:58] christoph_n Proposals welcome...
[14:58:22] christoph_n (I thought about it, really.)
[14:58:25] louis_to stx12: have you added Olivier and Eike to the discuss@coiuncil list and Christoph, have you updated the relevant web page?
[14:58:40] louis_to or jsc?
[14:58:52] christoph_n I don't have write access (or, I never tried).
[14:58:54] louis_to in short, we need to update the relevant pages with the new members' information
[14:59:01] jsc i have updated the council webpage
[14:59:08] louis_to really? I guess I failed to give you that; I shall do so now
[14:59:26] louis_to jsc, thanks
[14:59:39] christoph_n Ah, forced reload makes it visible.
[14:59:51] stx12 louis_to: no, i'll add them to the list...
[15:00:03] jsc well the new design is till missing
[15:00:04] christoph_n @jsc: Could you please update the "five project leads" issue? This doesn't conform to the current CC structure.
[15:00:31] jsc ok, i will correct it
[15:00:42] christoph_n Sorry, of course ... don't update the issue. *g*
[15:01:13] louis_to christoph_n: off channle, can you send me your username for OOo?
[15:01:19] louis_to likewise, eike, I forgot yours
[15:01:27] louis_to thanks, stx12
[15:01:34] christoph_n Yes, I can do that - anyway: christophnoack
[15:01:35] erAck louis_to: er
[15:01:57] louis_to okay, once these are doine, list esp., the key procedural issues for new members is tkane care of, lacking only the re-process of the dev. rep.
[15:02:07] louis_to thanks, eike
[15:02:15] stx12 eike and olivier are subscribed
[15:02:21] louis_to thanks
[15:04:08] christoph_n Next item?
[15:04:11] louis_to so, on to #2
[15:04:23] louis_to I have not sent what I meant to two weeks ago, the update to the language
[15:04:30] louis_to my only change that is substantial:
[15:04:42] louis_to after 6 months, the project can be deemed to be effectively dead
[15:04:53] louis_to if there is no meaningful activity oin the lists
[15:05:04] louis_to this obtains for both NLC and Incubator projects
[15:05:40] louis_to I'd also liek to add the clarification that merely by having an INcubator project--we want many---does not mean that it will necessarily go on to Accepted status
[15:05:41] jsc sounds reasonable for me
[15:05:56] louis_to it means nothing at all, in fact and to move on requires a specific request by the lead
[15:06:47] christoph_n Short question: Is there a complete text available? I didn't see anything on counci-discuss ... nor in my inbox (but maybe I have missed it).
[15:06:51] louis_to my addition of that latter comes from a discussion I had recently, where "incubator" was seen as inevitably leading to accepted
[15:07:10] louis_to christoph_n: no
[15:07:15] louis_to but I will send it in
[15:07:28] christoph_n Okay.
[15:07:42] louis_to the language for both is fairly similar but the incubator has the divergences: does one want to make it an accepted or keep it as is?
[15:08:14] jsc i would like to talk more about specific tasks. And not about projects. Sometimes we need things to be done and they are finished the task is finished and that's it. No further activity necessary ...
[15:08:16] louis_to and if it is to be clsoed, is this then a fore-step in the process to accepted, in which case, "closure" is simply a renaming, oir is it really a sign of neglect
[15:08:29] louis_to jsc: context?
[15:08:42] jsc .. when they are finished ...
[15:08:49] louis_to an incubator / project can be of that sort
[15:09:00] louis_to stx12 and I had this dicussion about 7, 8 years ago
[15:09:14] jsc i think it's wrong to create new projects for everything ...
[15:09:16] louis_to and the issue then is the issue now: to devise, using CollabNet's tools, ad hoc projects
[15:09:37] louis_to and that was the issue that he raised, as a project is a memory that will linger, no matter how we expunge it
[15:09:50] louis_to the solution as such is to use the wiki and subproject
[15:09:59] louis_to but then that has NOTHING to do with an incubator project as such
[15:10:27] louis_to but need only be mentioned in the guidelines, and the logistics there woiuld be to work with the iteam that comes into being for this purpose
[15:10:33] louis_to so that one can find it
[15:10:41] louis_to I can put some language to that point, thanks
[15:10:53] louis_to eg, if oine wants an ad hoc project, then doi X, Y, Z.
[15:11:10] louis_to or to resolve a specific problem or task
[15:11:30] louis_to but we also resolved this long ago by focusing more on IssueZilla, as we had it then
[15:11:37] jsc the term project as we use it tody raise too much expectations from my point of view
[15:11:47] jsc but hey it's my personal opinion
[15:11:49] louis_to yes, we agree, jsc, and we are way ahead of you
[15:12:07] louis_to and I simply a) agreed, and b) laid out solution, and c) provided historical context
[15:12:54] jsc ok, go ahead ...
[15:13:01] louis_to right, so #3
[15:13:17] louis_to Martin's AI....
[15:13:48] louis_to given the absence of MH, I'd suggest to just send in a proposal to the list along the lines of,
[15:14:23] jsc i will talk to Martin and if necessary will take over this AI
[15:14:31] louis_to thanks
[15:14:39] mhu maybe, we could ask Martin to send his proposal ?
[15:14:56] mhu okay, thanks jsc
[15:14:58] louis_to it's not so hard.... just to focus on getting qs. from the peopel and also setting up a time period
[15:15:08] louis_to kidn of like what we do during OOoCon
[15:15:33] mhu right
[15:18:48] christoph_n (tick tack tick ta...)
[15:19:01] louis_to move on to #4
[15:19:10] jsc see the update in the agenda
[15:19:12] jsc no real update because the lack of time. But we are working on it and i hope to publish a first draft soon (probably next week)
[15:19:13] jsc I am looking forward how this concept will be accepted and how it will work ...
[15:19:58] louis_to thanks. can you suggest when there might be an update?
[15:20:06] louis_to my interest relates to:
[15:20:11] jsc sorry that i can't give more new info but i had an unplanned stop for 5 days in Brazil
[15:20:16] louis_to a) it's nearly summer for many students in the North Hemisphere
[15:20:20] louis_to ah
[15:20:28] louis_to yes, am familiar with that problem....
[15:20:35] louis_to and with ashy forecsats.
[15:21:15] louis_to b) I'd like to see if we can aim this for the coming school year, as the summer period may be over by now for new issues like this
[15:21:30] jsc well the bounties are open for all not only students and if they get well accepted it can be an ongoing effort as long as we have money for new ...
[15:22:06] louis_to right; but it's the marketing that will attract new (students or not) that needs to be pitched....
[15:22:08] louis_to that's all
[15:22:35] louis_to for instance, it'd be very cool to announce something like this at OOoCon or even at Oracle Open World
[15:23:12] jsc sure, i will do my best and i am sure that we will have something to announce soon
[15:23:13] louis_to oir at Oscon (July) or even at something similar elsewhere in the world... too late for LinuxTag, alas
[15:23:19] louis_to thanks!!
[15:23:32] louis_to #5....
[15:23:46] louis_to no update....
[15:23:51] louis_to #6...
[15:23:54] * mhu thinks, louis_to is talking about internship, not docu bounties ?
[15:24:04] stx12 actually there is... for #5
[15:24:10] louis_to go ahead.....
[15:24:46] stx12 we stumbled over the budget and cor asked us (mhu, mh and me) to think about a resolution.
[15:25:18] stx12 it was proposed to use some of the money left from last year for the internship.
[15:26:02] stx12 we think there is a one time opportunity to do that and raise the development budget.
[15:26:46] stx12 we should avoid the impression that we can do that on a regular basis. but we would like to run the internship every year.
[15:27:04] louis_to thanks.
[15:27:18] louis_to I'd be hopeful we can obtain a regular source from a corporate angel
[15:27:19] stx12 second there was an amount of 8 slots x 4000 EUR proposed.
[15:27:42] stx12 at least i understood that we talked about EUR.
[15:27:59] mhu ...increase the budget, so that docu bounties and internship can be covered this year. ... stx12 is explaining it all ... so I stay silent ...
[15:28:12] stx12 lokking at similar programs this amount seems to high.
[15:28:17] stx12 too high.
[15:28:32] louis_to stx12: that was my impression, too, but Cor pointed out the math....
[15:28:41] louis_to ie, 8 X 4K
[15:29:11] stx12 i'm fine with 4k USD or 3.5K EUR (which is even more)
[15:29:23] jsc me too
[15:29:58] mhu finally, we have not (yet) so much money as Google
[15:30:08] stx12 so we will clarify the budget with martin (who is the owner) so that we can run the internship and the bounties and have a bit air to breath
[15:30:31] jsc sounds like a plan
[15:30:44] stx12 an dmartin just send a message that other expenses shouldn't be a blocker.
[15:31:14] stx12 to me this sounds like we are ready to continue with the internship as planned by cor and friends...
[15:31:48] louis_to yes.
[15:32:19] mhu yes
[15:32:28] jsc yes, should inform Cor about the update ...
[15:32:44] jsc .. i inform ...
[15:32:49] louis_to shall we then update the item ? It seems quite solid and also allows us then to move publicly with this, once we have the other elements
[15:33:25] louis_to that is to say, "What remains for the internship to move forward?"
[15:34:00] jsc update of the related wiki page, i can at least update the money related items
[15:34:08] louis_to thanks
[15:34:20] louis_to and then? I mean, when can we start soliciting for interns, etc.?
[15:34:26] louis_to there are many who could be interested
[15:34:36] stx12 initiate the budget request with martin...
[15:34:48] louis_to and I' dlike to ensure that we work with marketing on this
[15:35:02] louis_to which i can do, but ....
[15:35:45] stx12 cor, jsc and mathias b. will takes this i guess.
[15:36:21] louis_to then let's ask them to work with Marketing...
[15:36:25] jsc i have already promoted it or at least the plans in Brazil ;-)
[15:36:35] jsc i will take care of it
[15:37:33] erAck before we market internships, wouldn't we need tasks from the projects first that could be worked on in an internship?
[15:38:17] louis_to yes.
[15:38:37] jsc well, we have the to-do lists and of course people can suggest their own project.
[15:38:43] stx12 that's what i raised last time. the approach was planned a bit different to avoid the blocker. but yes, that helps.
[15:38:45] louis_to much needs to be refined, first, but we can still Market the idea in general and start engaging the MKT group to expand its boundaries
[15:38:58] erAck ok
[15:39:12] christoph_n The "project proposals" aren't up to date, I think. The wiki page by Cor lists some suggestions how to continue.
[15:39:44] stx12 i think i will call for "task proposals" anyway - if noone objects...
[15:39:58] christoph_n stx12: Very good!
[15:40:10] jsc up to date is relative. Ideas that ae not yet implemented are still open...
[15:40:54] stx12 yes, but not every idea / effort / task / project is in scope for the internship...
[15:41:12] stx12 let's put out a list in parallel to all the todos.
[15:41:18] louis_to I think any new proposal must be negotiated
[15:41:55] louis_to shall we move on to #6?
[15:42:10] stx12 yes
[15:42:25] mhu yes
[15:42:52] jsc yes
[15:43:02] louis_to nothing substantial I can add to agenda items; it has to do with the actual remit of Education project. This will be more feasibly addressed now that the internship program is moving forward, I believe
[15:43:48] louis_to shall we move on to #7?
[15:44:09] christoph_n Mmh, should we then close it? Or just wait...
[15:44:14] stx12 yes, where is sotherncross btw...
[15:44:17] louis_to afaik, no updates, but I do have a really long and interesting email from Sinhala
[15:44:34] christoph_n (Sorry, I meant #6)
[15:44:49] louis_to project lead, and I'll see if I can put that into the newsletter. it pertains to questions related to OOo in Sinhala and other issues
[15:45:17] louis_to but let's move onto post-#7
[15:46:14] louis_to and I confess I doin't see how we can discuss these items here as proposals requriing yes/no votes
[15:46:24] louis_to if anyone wants to add insight here....
[15:46:51] christoph_n Sorry, do we really talk about 2010-04-01#7?
[15:47:32] louis_to my point is : no
[15:47:41] louis_to until they are framed in a way that allows for talk
[15:47:49] louis_to so, I'd like to call to adjourn today's meeting
[15:48:06] louis_to IRC log will be posted shortly; AIs: I ask someone else to update the page?
[15:48:20] christoph_n Sorry, there are some items that are important.
[15:48:25] louis_to and before ending today's, I'd like to ask Eike if he has anytinmng he wants to add...
[15:48:29] mhu can we at least quickly talk about next meetings schedule (last item)
[15:48:31] louis_to oh, okay, go ahead
[15:48:45] louis_to agreed: christoph_n: go ahead
[15:48:58] christoph_n Okay.
[15:49:04] erAck louis_to: I've nothing to add today.
[15:49:11] christoph_n Jumping to 2010-04-29#1: CC Election
[15:49:26] christoph_n Everybody knows the current situation - the proposal is to re-do the election cycle.
[15:49:38] christoph_n First question: Do we agree here?
[15:49:53] christoph_n (for the Product Dev Representative)
[15:50:02] stx12 yes
[15:50:03] erAck yes
[15:50:06] louis_to +1
[15:50:27] mhu +1
[15:50:30] jsc +1
[15:50:32] christoph_n +1
[15:50:40] christoph_n Okay, are there any other seats to be elected (soon)? Can we combine an election?
[15:51:19] louis_to christoph_n: that would be for me, new product dev, and who else? mhu, I believe
[15:51:29] mhu probably
[15:51:44] christoph_n probably ... with a tendency towards ... :-)
[15:52:00] mhu ...1
[15:52:28] christoph_n Okay, are there any reasons to wait a few days/weeks, or should we start as soon as possible?
[15:52:41] christoph_n (I think we can start in a few days.)
[15:52:46] stx12 please remeeber that we can only run 1 election for a constituency at a time.
[15:52:56] stx12 i don't see a need to wait.
[15:53:04] mhu we used to have some overlap between old and new members terms ...
[15:53:20] louis_to i would wait until June, so as the new members can learn what is what
[15:53:30] louis_to and this is echoing mhu
[15:53:31] stx12 a few days is ok; but then let's restart the election for the product dev seat.
[15:53:37] mhu thats what i wanted to say
[15:53:40] christoph_n Ah, so the "5 project leads representatives" are like "product dev seats".
[15:54:15] stx12 no, they are a mixture of prod dev and code contribs
[15:54:45] christoph_n Okay, to be clear: We start the election cycle as soon as possible to find a representative for the product dev.
[15:54:58] christoph_n mhu and louis_to have to wait ;-)
[15:54:58] stx12 christoph_n: yes
[15:55:06] mhu yes
[15:55:08] louis_to yes, that is desired
[15:55:23] christoph_n Good, then I'll prepare the wiki page to election 2010-05.
[15:55:35] christoph_n Upcoming ...
[15:55:48] stx12 thanks
[15:55:49] christoph_n 2010-04-29#2: Missing OOo desktop presence
[15:56:11] christoph_n I know that it is late, but we already missed the request for the last meeting. Let's - at least - see how to deal with it.
[15:56:32] louis_to christoph_n: my point was and is that it needs to be framed in a way that is actionable
[15:56:34] louis_to it is not now
[15:56:46] louis_to if you wish to frame it that way, go ahead
[15:57:37] christoph_n My question was about how to continue. Is a discussion (soon) on the list appropriate for all?
[15:57:53] mhu yes
[15:58:12] christoph_n At least, we accept this AI since it is a community member request - yes?
[15:58:20] louis_to not necessarily
[15:58:30] louis_to why don't you send it to the list and let us deal with it there?
[15:58:44] louis_to a proper question and proposal must be actionable and must be within our remit
[15:58:46] christoph_n Cor already asked us and nobody (really) replied.
[15:58:55] louis_to we cannot accept those things that are out of our buonds
[15:59:06] stx12 we hear the request and will propose a follow-up activity.
[15:59:09] louis_to and Cor's acceptance is not the same as our being able to actualluy act on it
[15:59:48] christoph_n stx12: Hear means, to forward it to council-discuss?
[16:00:05] louis_to christoph_n: yes, please
[16:00:27] christoph_n Louis, what would make this item "more actionable"?
[16:00:41] louis_to can we vote ? is it within our remit?
[16:00:46] stx12 no, it means, we heard / read it. i was going to say that i'm not sure that we will decide / discuss the question, but propose how to proceed.
[16:00:46] louis_to let's see it on the list, please
[16:01:11] louis_to I disagree with stx12 then, as I believe this should be framed in a way that can worked with if at all on the list
[16:01:56] stx12 fine with me; i didn't think of raising proposals now.
[16:02:30] jsc fine for me as well, let's move on the list
[16:02:33] christoph_n I'm lost a bit :-) Louis, then please answer on the (upcoming) request on council-discuss how it can be made "more actionable" and "better framed".
[16:02:45] christoph_n Good. Last item...
[16:02:52] louis_to sure
[16:02:53] christoph_n 2010-04-29#3: CC meetings calendar
[16:03:38] christoph_n I'm more or less fine with the two weeks schedule, but the last 3 times either IRC Log or Meeting Minutes were missing. So if we need more time (or pressure) we should go back to the old schedule.
[16:03:48] christoph_n (last time: both missing)
[16:04:17] stx12 christoph_n: the last log was not linked but at the usual location
[16:04:22] * mhu is fine with the dates as proposed in the calendar (i.e. 3 weeks schedule)
[16:04:35] louis_to me too
[16:04:42] christoph_n (Then I'll link it.)
[16:04:56] stx12 done already
[16:05:03] christoph_n stx12 -- cool!
[16:05:15] christoph_n Eike, Jürgen, Stefan?
[16:05:35] jsc i am not available in 2 weeks -> vacation. And i will check the other dates ... most of them looks fine
[16:05:42] stx12 fine with me; now that i have a stand-in ;-)
[16:05:46] christoph_n ;-)
[16:05:57] christoph_n (So Martin is with us all the time...)
[16:06:21] erAck every 3 weeks is fine, I think.
[16:06:24] christoph_n Eike, you may not agree to each of the items - just state if you are generally fine.
[16:06:26] christoph_n (Oh, thanks)
[16:06:27] stx12 he is on irc but to shy to join ;-)
[16:07:00] christoph_n Okay, anything else?
[16:07:05] * erAck is switching back and forth between browser and irc ...
[16:07:19] jsc i saw, the next meeting is in 3 weeks. It's fine for ;-)
[16:07:41] christoph_n Good. One last question: How to deal with the minutes?
[16:07:55] louis_to by minutes youi mean AIs
[16:07:56] louis_to yes?
[16:07:57] christoph_n I can incorporate the changes for the last items I "moderated"
[16:07:59] louis_to I can do the IRC
[16:08:14] louis_to and I ahd asked for updates to the webpage continaing the agneda with AIs
[16:08:21] louis_to there was no response; you are asking that again
[16:09:00] christoph_n Since we agreed to manage both agenda and work status in one table ...
[16:09:05] louis_to my impression was that we were all responsible for updating our own AIs
[16:09:28] louis_to thereore, it is the responsibiliy of the AI assignee to update the webpage, yes?
[16:09:31] christoph_n Will we do that? The last times it didn't work (well).
[16:09:43] louis_to let's try it again.k
[16:09:52] louis_to rahter than waste time here :-)
[16:09:54] christoph_n We agreed on one person to "finalize" (minor touches) the agenda and copy it to the meeting minutes page.
[16:11:06] christoph_n Waste = neither having a clear agenda nor minutes for the community
[16:11:42] louis_to then I'll finalize it but requre that all with AIs update their relevant sections
[16:11:54] christoph_n Will do that today, I think.
[16:11:54] louis_to and I'll post this IRC to the usual location after meeting ends
[16:13:04] christoph_n If this is okay for everyone, we may close this meeting. Louis, okay?
[16:13:17] louis_to yes, and only indicate if it is NOT okay
[16:13:20] louis_to :-)
[16:13:26] louis_to so all in favour of adjourning the meeting?
</pre>
[[Category:Community_Council]]

Community Council Log 20100610

2010-06-10T21:40:06Z

LouisSuarez: Created page with '=== IRC Log 2010-06-10 === *Supposed start time: 18:30 UTC *Time offset −0400 UTC *Location: IRC == Attendees == *Cor Nouws (CorNouws) *Matthias Huetsch (mhu) *Louis Su…'

=== IRC Log 2010-06-10 ===

*Supposed start time: 18:30 UTC
*Time offset −0400 UTC
*Location: IRC

== Attendees ==

*Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
*Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
*Louis Suárez-Potts (louis_to)
*Stefan Taxhet (stx12)
*Charles-H. Schulz (southerncross)
*Olivier Hallot (olivierhallot)
*Jürgen Schmidt (jsc)

== Absent ==

*Eike Rathke (erAck)
*Christoph Noack (christoph_n)

*mystery candidate

== Log ==
<pre>[14:38:03] louis_to then meeting has begun
[14:38:09] louis_to the agenda is above linked
[14:38:25] louis_to http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Agenda
[14:38:58] louis_to do we approve of prior minutes?
[14:39:14] louis_to that's item 09
[14:39:17] louis_to 0, I mean
[14:39:36] louis_to silence = uyes
[14:39:41] louis_to yes, I mean (cannot type)
[14:40:07] louis_to so, on to AI responsible Louis refresh incubator and nlc proceses
[14:40:12] louis_to sttaus: in progress
[14:40:45] louis_to #3: AI Martin, publicize the open slot at the start of the CC meetings
[14:40:59] louis_to MH is not part of the CC. who is able to report on this for him?
[14:41:24] jsc i think i volunteered for this
[14:41:41] mhu mh has sent email to day to discuss@council to remind us of the status of his proposal
[14:41:46] jsc i talked to Martin several times and he would like to tak care of it ....
[14:42:03] mhu s/to day/today/
[14:42:10] jsc yes, he send a mail today
[14:42:12] *** christoph_mobile (~yaaic@89.204.153.206) has joined the channel
[14:42:16] louis_to yes, I saw mh's mail
[14:42:24] louis_to so, does this mean that jsc is doing it?
[14:42:30] louis_to will jsc then update the wiki?
[14:42:45] jsc no, Martin wanted to finish this work
[14:43:03] jsc that is as least my understnding so far
[14:43:05] louis_to then we let MH update the wiki with an "in progress" and date for termination, yes?
[14:43:23] louis_to then let's move on to #4
[14:43:33] louis_to Work with Clayton on estimates for Developing developers documentation
[14:43:33] louis_to Accepted
[14:43:33] louis_to Jürgen
[14:43:45] louis_to jsc: do you have update?
[14:43:57] jsc i asked for feedback and that was limited ...
[14:44:19] louis_to okay, please update with what you received the wiki
[14:44:23] jsc so we are redy to start and we are in contact with the marketing to announce it
[14:44:32] louis_to great!
[14:44:54] jsc i expect it next week
[14:44:54] louis_to btw, can this inter-relate with the Seneca College issue?
[14:45:16] louis_to I see these, along with the internship programme, as continuous
[14:45:33] louis_to but, we can discuss this offlist, but please update the wiki
[14:45:47] jsc i am not sure, the bounties are documentation only. Or what do you mean?
[14:46:24] jsc the wiki is updated and we are working on the announcement
[14:46:25] louis_to fardad's interest in getting to know how to proceed with Seneca college instructions for OOo would benefit from documentation
[14:46:39] louis_to and woiuld possibly be able to engage students, etc. in this, too
[14:46:47] * CorNouws S... again
[14:46:59] louis_to yes; same old
[14:47:15] jsc well we have to see how well the bounties get accepted or not ...
[14:47:31] louis_to we paid 40K for classes to be given by Seneca and it's happening next year; Fardad S. of Seneca needs to coordinate with the developers so as to be able to be mroe effective
[14:47:35] louis_to not much from us is required
[14:48:14] louis_to but this is distinct from bounties but not entirely opposed to it, as the issue is to create material that allows new developers to come up to speed on coding for OOo
[14:48:17] jsc i do my best but i can not work as i do currently ;-)
[14:48:32] jsc ... more as i do ...
[14:48:35] CorNouws Indeed, Seneca
[14:48:41] CorNouws (wrong key)
[14:48:52] CorNouws INdeed, Senaca has nothing to do with current topic
[14:48:58] louis_to of course; but this is more an effort along the lines of , "hi, I'm here to listen and provide some suggestions."
[14:49:15] louis_to CorNouws: As I stated, I thought it was continuous not identical
[14:49:19] CorNouws http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Meeting_Guidelines
[14:49:30] louis_to !
[14:49:46] jsc let's move on to the next AI and let discuss this offline...
[14:50:02] louis_to #5. Internship
[14:50:27] louis_to it's been marked "finalized"
[14:50:40] louis_to does that mean that it can then be removed from the agenda?
[14:50:47] jsc a short update on the ongoing application process ...
[14:50:48] louis_to I see no value keeping it there
[14:50:54] louis_to okay.....
[14:51:18] jsc we have more than 7 applications so far that we evaluate
[14:51:51] louis_to great; and many have sent me and florian applications we've then asked to route to Cor and others ....
[14:51:52] * mhu wonders what "more than 7" may mean, 8, 80, 800 :-)
[14:52:08] jsc we select carefully and accept only the projects where we have mentors
[14:52:13] jsc > 75
[14:52:19] louis_to ah
[14:52:24] louis_to that is indeed more than seven
[14:52:56] louis_to shall we move on to #6 and no longer feature #5?
[14:53:08] jsc but of course the quality is very different
[14:53:38] jsc ups, yes please next #6
[14:54:45] louis_to ;#6: Talk to Education Project Leads about structure and remit
[14:54:59] louis_to Cor, has anything been done on this?
[14:55:28] CorNouws No, not yet.
[14:55:29] CorNouws Als, I thought I had expressed my feeling (in a mail or a previous meeting) that ATM there are other items in the community that are more urgent, so to say ..
[14:55:35] CorNouws als / also
[14:55:58] CorNouws however, afaiac, it will not be forgotten ..
[14:56:22] CorNouws if someone has a reason for more urgency, pls let me know
[14:56:30] CorNouws mail or irc or so
[14:56:41] * jsc is thinking if we need a status stalled
[14:57:32] louis_to perhaps but updating the wiki would be enough, I think
[14:57:45] louis_to with what was just related---that's adequate to give insight
[14:58:04] CorNouws ok for me - I ?l do that
[14:58:07] louis_to let's move on to #7: NLC of the month
[14:58:08] louis_to thanks, Cor
[14:58:13] louis_to Charles?
[14:58:21] louis_to aka southerncross
[14:58:31] southerncross yes
[14:58:40] louis_to would you have an update?
[14:58:42] southerncross so I had several issues
[14:58:43] southerncross to be frank
[14:58:50] southerncross I am sad to report
[14:58:58] southerncross that not only do I not have any update
[14:59:14] southerncross but that each of the project I personally contacted
[14:59:21] southerncross never even replied to me :-(
[14:59:27] southerncross or claimed they didn't have time
[14:59:39] southerncross I will continue to look for a project though.
[14:59:40] louis_to southerncross: can you work with me on this, pelase?
[14:59:45] southerncross sure
[15:00:10] louis_to thanks. let's reconnnoitre tomorrow or later on tonight and get some articlles going
[15:00:16] olivierhallot well... if you need food for the newsletter I can provide tons from Brazil... We have our own NL...
[15:00:17] * louis_to apologies for bad typing.
[15:00:25] louis_to olivierhallot: thanks!!
[15:00:39] louis_to and we can surely engage the Gallegos in Spain, and more
[15:00:56] louis_to but let's drive this, with some standard questions, etc. and we can discuss this offlist
[15:01:11] * louis_to is acutely conscious of time pressure
[15:01:11] southerncross olivierhallot: yes
[15:01:32] southerncross I am confident of this since we have over 100 projects
[15:01:39] louis_to uhm.
[15:01:45] southerncross so there's room for improvement and choice
[15:01:46] louis_to let's move on to the next item?
[15:02:03] louis_to 2010-04-01#1
[15:02:03] louis_to Community situation
[15:02:36] louis_to does any one of us have an update?
[15:02:46] louis_to "What do we see, where are we, what are we going to do about it."
[15:02:49] CorNouws :-)
[15:03:03] CorNouws ai for all, so no one has an update, obvious
[15:03:07] louis_to * no update*
[15:03:25] louis_to let's move on to #2
[15:03:41] louis_to Missing OOo desktop presence
[15:03:57] louis_to Assigned and accepted by Stx and Christoph
[15:04:06] louis_to stx12, would you have an update?
[15:04:07] *** christoph_mobile has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[15:04:38] stx12 louis_to: christoph moved forward with that.
[15:04:59] CorNouws may I give a little update?
[15:05:05] louis_to please
[15:05:56] CorNouws Christoph had contact with Olivier and me about joining the i-team, and since Olivier and I neither are experts, we think we can help by joining both
[15:06:09] *** christoph_mobile (~yaaic@89.204.153.206) has joined the channel
[15:06:24] CorNouws so that means that basically the work can start, if I am right
[15:07:02] louis_to great!
[15:07:06] louis_to what will you be doing, then?
[15:07:24] CorNouws Christoph will draft a plan for that
[15:07:41] CorNouws has to do with icons, feed back and colors
[15:07:54] southerncross sounds good indeed
[15:08:02] CorNouws (probably Orange, Dutch soccer WC you know ;-) )
[15:08:06] louis_to :-)
[15:08:11] louis_to uhm. when's the first game?
[15:08:25] CorNouws may children say tomorrow
[15:08:26] louis_to or will you remind me of meeting protocols, too? :-)
[15:08:31] CorNouws may = my
[15:08:35] louis_to :-)
[15:08:40] stx12 CorNouws: I~m afraid we have to agree on no colors then..
[15:08:53] * louis_to has been rather glued to his iphone app for this........
[15:09:10] louis_to ... and Toronto is going crazy
[15:09:29] olivierhallot no... but South Affrica flag has enough colors to pick many...
[15:09:31] louis_to okay, we look forward to substantial updates to the wiki and to the emails, and I thank you and Christoph
[15:09:36] louis_to :-)
[15:09:46] * louis_to roots for Mexico, of course :-)
[15:10:45] * southerncross feels he has no comments to make the about the French team :-/
[15:11:00] louis_to thsi one item, next, has been rejected. It ought to be removed from the agenda, I think: Do not promote proprietary software through the OpenOffice.org extensions library
[15:11:16] CorNouws yep
[15:11:17] louis_to it's 2010-05-07#1
[15:11:20] olivierhallot agree
[15:11:23] louis_to please let's delete it then
[15:11:38] * mhu thinks, that's the nice thing with international communities: some OOo country will surely win :-)
[15:11:43] louis_to and move on to 05-20#1, next council coordinator
[15:11:56] louis_to mhu: :-)
[15:12:17] louis_to whoever wins can host the next OOoCon :-)
[15:12:17] * southerncross nods
[15:12:24] mhu :-)
[15:12:27] * louis_to is joking
[15:12:32] * CorNouws we let Germany winn the Euro Song Festival, so now it's our turn :-)
[15:12:33] southerncross heh...
[15:12:42] louis_to but the item on council coordinator is no joke...
[15:12:59] stx12 but you are better singers than football players...
[15:13:08] CorNouws do all have a good idea of the task?
[15:13:17] louis_to yes, I think so
[15:13:21] CorNouws how heavy load it is and such
[15:13:31] CorNouws Christoph and Stefan can tell
[15:14:09] louis_to shall we set a deadline for this selection?
[15:14:27] louis_to http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council#Council_coordinator
[15:14:28] CorNouws possibly it is more frustrating than time consuming - depends on how you experience it..
[15:14:33] jsc come on to shorten this, i volunteer
[15:14:40] stx12 it depends how much you invest; and we were not able to come close to cor's investment... nevertheless it's worth the effort.
[15:14:51] stx12 thanks jsc
[15:14:56] louis_to yes, thanks.
[15:14:57] CorNouws jsc: great !
[15:15:05] olivierhallot jsc, thanks indeed.
[15:15:05] louis_to jsc: would you update the wiki entry, then, please?
[15:15:06] mhu yes, +1 to jsc
[15:15:07] louis_to thanks!
[15:15:34] louis_to do we have new items for discussion today?
[15:15:47] jsc the wiki entry for the coordinator? Yes
[15:15:59] jsc i will start with the next meeting
[15:16:40] * mhu still thinks about 75 applications for 7 internships; we are then rejecting 90% of applicants; will they come back, sometime ?
[15:17:22] stx12 we are not rejecting but inviting to spend some of their freetime...
[15:17:39] stx12 on a voluntary basis...
[15:17:50] mhu yeah, that's the fine print :-) I was more general ...
[15:18:10] jsc mhu: that's life. We have only limited budget and a limited number of qualified mentors
[15:18:35] jsc ... mentors with time
[15:18:50] mhu yes, I guess I have an idea about the budget; any ideas what to do with all hose willing people ?
[15:19:01] mhu s/hose/those/
[15:19:05] CorNouws and for each serious applicant it can be disappointing, but it does not become worse fot he indiviual if there are more that cannot join
[15:19:27] louis_to I would love to see if they would want to join in the Seneca effort as "distance" learners, if possible
[15:19:50] * mhu finds it astonishing to see so much interest
[15:20:29] mhu ...I am not saying we're doing anything wrong; just whether we could make something from it
[15:20:31] CorNouws I am not sure if all made a seriuos study of their changes to be choosen ..
[15:20:32] * stx12 is not too surprised about the number - it's similar to the earlier efforts of similar campaigns
[15:20:36] jsc leading country is India ;-)
[15:20:42] mhu sure
[15:21:13] stx12 ok, guys; i have ot leave; have fun...
[15:21:22] mhu bye, stx12
[15:21:40] CorNouws yes, maybe an easy, lighther programm that gives some credit / referrence for the student and little revenue too??
[15:21:52] CorNouws I have one more point, just a not, from Sophie
[15:21:58] CorNouws not = note
[15:22:00] louis_to thanks
[15:22:10] mhu CorNouws: get them accept documentation bounties, instead ?
[15:22:20] CorNouws one especially for mhu: Sophie pointed me to the fact that there is some mony at SPI allocated for the OOo project!
[15:22:21] CorNouws can be a good start for internship 2011, probably
[15:22:58] louis_to okay, thanks
[15:23:00] CorNouws mhu: maybe, lets discuss this in the mail contests@ for example
[15:23:13] louis_to do we use contests@
[15:23:14] louis_to ?
[15:23:14] mhu well, yes; that's a couple thousand (few) dollars; and yes, we should somehow claim (and spend) that money
[15:23:29] louis_to I thought I was subscribed to it but have not received posts from that list
[15:23:31] southerncross contests@?
[15:23:33] mhu well, I donT see much on contests@
[15:23:52] CorNouws contests@marketing.openoffice.org
[15:23:56] mhu yes, I am subscribed also
[15:24:11] southerncross thanks CorNouws
[15:24:16] CorNouws we did quite some preparations there. Unnoticed?
[15:24:21] mhu and, no, most of the discussion obviously happens elsewhere
[15:24:41] jsc not much traffic even not on the new internship list
[15:24:42] mhu yes, the preparations
[15:24:50] CorNouws on list as much as possible, I would say
[15:25:02] mhu okay, then we didnt miss much
[15:25:06] jsc yes, until now most often private emails
[15:25:31] mhu CorNouws: yes, lets discuss at contests@
[15:26:18] louis_to okahy, are we all subscribed, that want to?K
[15:26:49] *** christoph_mobile has quit IRC (Quit: Yaaic - Yet another Android IRC client - http://www.yaaic.org)
[15:26:55] *** stx12 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[15:27:05] southerncross I'll subscribe
[15:29:22] jsc do we have finished for today?
[15:29:25] louis_to yes.
[15:29:44] jsc ok, i have to leave now, bye
[15:29:54] olivierhallot bye folks
[15:30:00] mhu bye all, have a nice evening / afternoon
[15:30:00] *** jsc is now known as jsc_away
[15:30:03] CorNouws bye bye & thanks
[15:30:09] louis_to meeting ajdourned; thanks all
</pre>
[[Category:Community_Council]]

Community Council Log 20100429

2010-06-10T21:38:03Z

LouisSuarez:

Community Council/Minutes

2010-05-05T17:58:05Z

LouisSuarez:

= Minutes of Meetings =

== 2010-04-29 ==

=== IRC Log ===

See [[Community Council Log 20100429]]

=== Minutes ===

tbd

== 2010-04-15 ==

=== IRC Log ===

See [[Community Council Log 20100415]]

=== Minutes ===

To be done (hopefully). In the meantime, you may refer to the [http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/w/index.php?title=Community_Council/Agenda&oldid=162224 Agenda and Work status page (2010-04-01)].

== 2010-04-01 ==

=== IRC Log ===

See [[Community Council Log 20100401]]

=== Minutes ===

tbd

== 2010-03-18 ==

=== IRC Log ===

See [[Community Council Log 20100318]]

=== Minutes ===

{| class="prettytable sortable"
|-
! scope="col" | ID 
! scope="col" | Topic 
! scope="col" | Status 
! scope="col" | Responsible 
! scope="col" | Last Update 
! scope="col" | Details 
|-
| 0 
| List of Action Items of previous meeting for approval 
| ''none'' 
| all 
| ''none'' 
|
*No meeting minutes available for 2010-03-04 
*Instead, all agreed on the minutes log [[Community Council Log 20100304]]

|-
| 2010-03-04#1 
| CC Elections (Martin, Pavel, John) 
| Accepted 
| Louis, Christoph 
| 2010-03-18 
|
*Mail for nominations have been done; several nominations received. 
*Next phase, introduction of the nominees, will be started.
*Overall status can be tracked at [[Community Council/Elections/2010-03|Elections/2010-03]].
*Next steps: Christoph will announce the next phase "introduction". 

|-
| 2010-03-04#2 
| Refresh Incubator and NLC Project processes 
| Accepted 
| Louis 
| 2010-03-18 
|
*No new proposal available. Louis will work on that. 
*Next steps: Will be discussed in next meeting.

|-
| 2010-03-04#3 
| Publicize the open slot at the start of the CC meetings 
| Accepted 
| Martin 
| 2010-03-18 
|
*According to Martin, the current proposal has to be reworked. It is being worked on. 
*It has been clarified to provide this "open slot" on a regular basis (e.g. monthly, or each CC meeting). 
*Proposal: Martin will provide a new proposal in the next few days. 

|-
| 2010-03-04#4 
| Work with Clayton on estimates for Developing developers documentation 
| Accepted 
| Jürgen 
| 2010-03-18 
|
*New proposal has been sent to the list by Jürgen ([http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2505 here]). The basic idea is to provide bounties instead of contracting one writer. 
*All CC members are asked to comment the proposal on the CC mailing list.
*For any proposal, the development budget may require an upgrade. Matthias, Stefan and Martin will provide a proposal (Cor will join, see 2010-03-04#5).
*Reminder to keep an eye how to provide consistency for the different pieces. Will be discussed with Clayton. 
*Next steps: Ongoing discussion on the CC mailing list. 

|-
| 2010-03-04#5 
| OpenOffice.org Internship (was: Talk to Google about 2010 SoC) 
| Accepted 
| Cor, John 
| 2010-03-18 
|
*We have been informed that Google refuses projects from OpenOffice.org. It had been decided before to go for the own "OpenOffice.org Internship" in that situation.
*A draft for the internship program is worked out ([[OpenOffice.org Internship|here]]). All CC members are asked to comment this proposal on the CC mailing list before Tuesday March 23.
*Budget may be possible issue, since required for here and for documentation (AI 2010-03-04#4). Cor will join the discussion to work on a proposal.
*Next steps:
**Cor joins the the budget discussion.
**Prepare approval and launch asap.

|-
| 2010-03-04#6 
| Talk to Education Project Leads about structure and remit 
| Accepted 
| John, Cor 
| 2010-03-18 
|
*Cor to prepare a draft and present it to the Community Council. Nothing done yet.
*Next steps: Will be discussed in next meeting. 

|-
| 2010-03-04#7 
| Talk to NLC about ‘NLC of the Month’ for OOo Newsletter 
| Accepted 
| Charles 
| 2010-03-18 
|
*Inteview with the Irish team has been done. No further information available by his deputy (Leif). 
*Next steps: Charles is asked to provide updates on the CC mailing list. 

|-
| 2010-03-04#8 
| New template for CC meetings 
| Finalized 
| Christoph 
| 2010-03-18 
|
*Current proposal is available at [[Community Council/Proposed Improvements|Proposed_Improvements]]. 
*Everyone (except Leif, deputy of Charles) voted to use it from now on. Charles may add comments in the next few days, if required.
*Next steps: Christoph will update the minutes according the new template. Accepted proposal will be moved to a more "official" wiki page. Announcement to be made on the CC mailing list.

|-
| 2010-03-04#9 
| Refresh Budget Pages on the Wiki with input from Matthias 
| Finalized 
| John 
| 2010-03-18 
|
*Was already finalized in last meeting.
*Next steps: none

|-
| 2010-03-04#10 
| Confirm/discuss [[Community Council/Calendar|proposed dates]] for future council meetings 
| Finalized 
| All 
| 2010-03-18 
|
*Was already finalized in some of the previous meetings.
*Reminder: Request confirmation for future dates (e.g. end of April 2010)
*Next steps: none 

|-
| 2010-03-04#11 
| Trademark 
| Rejected 
| Stefan 
| 2010-03-18 
|
*No updates; will be rejected for now. 
*Next steps: Stefan will re-open this item when a revised policy is available.

|}

== 2010-03-04 ==

=== IRC Log ===

See [[Community Council Log 20100304]]

=== Minutes ===

Minutes and action items are not available.

=== Agenda Items ===

Since no meeting minutes are available, the original agenda will be used instead.

{| class="prettytable"
|-
! No
! Action Item
! Owner
! Due Date
! Additional Information 
|-
| 0
| List of Action Items of previous meeting for approval
| All 
| 
| See [[Community Council/Minutes#2010-02-18|Community_Council/Minutes#2010-02-18]]. 
|-
| 1 
| Hold CC Elections (Martin, Pavel, John)
| Louis / Christoph 
| 
|
2010-03-03: Louis sent the mail for nomination on 2010-02-27. The nomination phase will end 2010-03-15 15 at 24:00 UTC. 

Next Steps: ???

|-
| 2 
| Refresh Incubator and NLC Project processes
| Louis
| 
| 
|-
| 3 
| Publicise the open slot at the start of the CC meetings
| Louis 
| 
| 
|-
| 4
| Work with Clayton on estimates for ''Developing developers'' documentation
| Jürgen 
| 
|
Next Steps: 

*back to rework on a new proposal how to move forward
*Based on a further talk with Clayton Juergen has sent out a new idea of a bounty program on the discuss@council.openoffice.org mailing list. The main idea of it is to define many smaller and more fine grained projects and make them publicly available. Each projects will be honored with a appropriate amount of money depending on the project. For more details see the email. 

|-
| 5
| Talk to Google about 2010 SoC
| John
| 
|
Next Steps: 

*Cor and John will keep the Community Council updated. 
*The topic will be raised in the next meeting which will be held in two weeks of time. 

|-
| 6
| Talk to Education Project Leads about structure and remit
| Cor
| 
|
Next Step: Cor will prepare a draft and present it to the Community Council. 

|-
| 7
| Talk to NLC about ‘NLC of the Month’ for OOo Newsletter
| Charles
| 
|
Next Steps: 

*Charles currently prepares an interview (source: internal mail). 
*Action item will be kept "in progress" until Charles is back. 

|-
| 8
| New template for CC meetings
| Christoph
| 
|
2010-03-02: The revised proposal is available at [[Community Council/Proposed Improvements|Proposed_Improvements]]. It has been refined to make working with it easier and more efficient. Basically, it is now a continuous table which can be sorted according to several status labels. Originally, I proposed to use different sections to markup the status of action items. Additionally, the proposal to move the "record date" to the action item ID has been incorporated. Please review the proposal - or even better - accept it :-) 

Next Steps:

*If accepted, then the current agenda wiki page will be transformed to respect the proposed format. Additionally, the content of the "Proposed Improvements" page will be moved to a more "official" place.
*If rejected, then ...nothing.
*JSC: +1

|-
| 9
| Refresh Budget Pages on the Wiki with input from Matthias
| John
| 
|
Next Step: John will work on that until the next meeting. 

|-
| 10
| Confirm/discuss [http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Calendar proposed dates] for future council meetings
| Christoph
| 2010-03-04 
|
2010-03-02: The revised proposal is available at [[Community Council/Calendar|Community Council Calendar]].

Next Steps: None planned. 

|-
| 11 
| Trademark
| Stefan 
| 
|
Next Step: Stefan will provide some updates in the next meeting.

|}

== 2010-02-18 ==

=== IRC Log ===

List of attendees and IRC log can be found here: [[Community Council Log 20100218]]

=== Minutes ===

{| class="prettytable"
|-
! No
! Action Item
! Owner
! Status
! Additional Information 
|-
| 0
| List of Action Items of previous meeting for approval
| - 
| Approved 
| 
|-
| 1 
| Prepare wiki page for ‘Events’
| Louis
| Done
|
List of events interesting for OpenOffice.org available at [http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Events#Year_2010 Events, Year 2010]. From now on, it needs to be completed by MarCon.

|-
| 2 
| Hold CC Elections (Martin, Pavel, John)
| Louis / Christoph 
| In progress 
|
Louis is currently preparing the initial email "New election for Community Council". A second draft is already available and feedback has already been provided. 

Next Steps: 

*Louis is asked to send the initial email - if its ready. 
*Christoph will have a look at the election process and (support to) trigger the next steps. 

|-
| 3 
| Refresh Incubator and NLC Project processes
| Louis
| 
| No update. Will be discussed in next meeting. 
|-
| 4 
| Publicise the open slot at the start of the CC meetings
| Louis 
| 
| No update. Will be discussed in next meeting. 
|-
| 5
| Work with Clayton on estimates for ''Developing developers'' documentation
| Jürgen 
| In progress
|
Clayton has send a first draft to council-discuss ([http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2454 Draft of the Community Council proposal to hire a Tech Writer]), we need some confirmation how to proceed keeping the proposed quote in mind. 

Discussion: 

*The costs are estimated to be roughly 40 K USD. It has been agreed that this seems to be a realistic estimation and maintainability is a very important question. 
*These costs do not fit in any currently planned budget. Some proposals were made how this work might be split / separated to get more manageable pieces (in terms of budget). But it has also been raised that it might only make sense if it is worked on the full documentation. 
*It has been agreed that - before any further decision can be made - all people should have a closer look at Clayton's proposal. 

Next Steps: 

*All CC members will have a closer look at the proposal (link above). (Added by Christoph: Everybody is free to provide proposals how to proceed.) 
*A funding proposal request has to be worked out for the the next meeting. 

|-
| 6
| Talk to Google about 2010 SoC
| John
| In progress 
|
John has sent a mail to the Google representative Leslie Hawthorn a couple of days ago. We are waiting for an answer.

Discussion: It has been raised that the applications for "would-be mentoring applications" is open from 2010-03-08 to 2010-03-12 ([http://groups.google.com/group/google-summer-of-code-discuss/browse_thread/thread/d839c0b02ac15b3f source]). 

Next Steps: 

*Cor and John will keep the Community Council updated. 
*The topic will be raised in the next meeting which will be held in two weeks of time. 

|-
| 7
| Talk to Education Project Leads about structure and remit
| Cor
| In progress 
|
Next Step: Cor will prepare a draft and present it to the Community Council. 

|-
| 8
| Talk to NLC about ‘NLC of the Month’ for OOo Newsletter
| Charles
| In progress 
|
Announcement has been made on the NLC list. One "volunteer" project found for the first month month, the Irish Gaelic project. 

Discussion (a little bit off-topic): 

*John did also inform the responsible for the OpenOffice.org Newsletter (Kay Koll) to use some information from the Community Council minutes. 
*The question was raised how to support Kay to ensure valid information. Sophie stated that usually the newsletter draft is reviewed. 

Next Steps: 

*Charles currently prepares an interview (source: internal mail). 
*Action item will be kept "in progress" until Charles is back. 

|-
| 9
| Talk to Marketing Project about OOoCon support for remote attendees
| John
| Done 
|
Request has been discussed with the Hungarian OOoCon team and with MarCon. The proposal that the MP should set up a 'permanent' arrangement for video for all OOoCons may need finance - probably next year's budget though. The Marketing Project is still discussing if this is a better approach. 

Discussion (a little bit off-topic): 

*Short discussion of whether the location of the OOoCons should be fixed or not. A comparison has been made to FOSDEM. 
*The action item will be closed, because the Marketing Project is aware of this issue. 

|-
| 10
| Reply to FSF Extensions Repository
| Louis
| Done 
| Louis sent the mail and the FSF (Peter Brown) already replied. 
|-
| 11
| New template for CC meetings
| Christoph
| In progress 
|
Some of the proposals from the face-to-face meeting in Hamburg have been summarized. Work on a draft has been started. It is available at [http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Proposed_Improvements Community_Council/Proposed_Improvements]. 

Discussion: 

*Cor estimated this work to be close-to-final. 
*A discussion on how to name the Action Items. The basic requirement is to identify the "age" of the items. Several proposals have been made. 

Next Steps: 

*Everybody will have a look at the draft and provide feedback (if required). 
*Christoph will finalize the proposal and present it in the next meeting to officially accept or reject it. 

|-
| 12
| Refresh Budget Pages on the Wiki with input from Matthias
| John
| 
|
No update. John will work on that until the next meeting. 

Remark: The budget has already been accepted in the face-to-face meeting in Hamburg.

|-
| 13
| Confirm/discuss [http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Calendar proposed dates] for future council meetings
| Christoph
| In progress 
|
A first proposal is available at [[Community Council/Calendar|Community Council Calendar]].

Discussion:

*According to Stefan the need for information might be higher during the next months.
*It has been proposed to change the schedule so that the Community Council meetings will be held each two weeks. This applies to the meetings in the next two months to check if this is applicable.
*Some people expressed the demand to reduce the meeting time to about one hour.

Next Step: Christoph will re-work the proposed dates and inform the Community Council members. 

|-
|
| Update of the OpenOffice.org logo and the branding initiative
| -
|
|
Additional discussion.

Discussion:

*Two proposals have been presented to the branding working group.
*A due date has been proposed to finalize the effort.

|-
|
| Trademark
| -
|
|
Additional discussion.

Discussion: Stefan will provide some updates in the next meeting.

|}

 

== 2010-02-04/05 (F2F Meeting in Hamburg) ==

=== Attendees ===

{| class="prettytable"
|-
! Name
! Initials (not the OOo user name)
|-
| Martin Hollmichel
| MHo
|-
| Matthias Huetsch
| MHu
|-
| Cor Nouws
| CNou
|-
| Christoph Noack
| CN
|-
| Louis Suarez-Potts
| LS-P
|-
| Charles-H. Schulz
| C-HS
|-
| John McCreesh
| JPMcC
|-
| Stefan Taxhet
| ST
|-
| Jürgen Schmidt
| JS
|}

=== Minutes ===

==== Status Updates from CC Sponsored Activities ====

'''Trademark Policy'''

ST reported that the draft trademark policy was being reviewed by Sun Legal, but no major changes were expected.

'''Developing developers'''

''The CC welcomed Clayton Cornell for this item'' 

The CC discussed three areas where documentation could be improved: 

*how-to get into core development (technical) 
*how-to engage in the community development process (people) 
*how-to get into extension development (technical) 

There was a discussion on the merits of traditional paper-based documentation versus webinars etc for each of these. 

The CC agreed to focus on extensions, possibly based on Per’s current work with Kai on a gallery extension. Clayton was actioned to come back with a budgetary estimate for the work.

The CC agreed to talk to Google to see whether the Oracle takeover meant that OOo would be accepted this year for the Summer of Code exercise. If not, the CC should press on with its own internship exercise.

'''Pootle Infrastructure'''

''The CC welcomed Rafaella Braconi for this item''

*A new Pootle sys admin was now in place and was actively managing the system
*Some background scripts had been removed. Feedback from the engineers was that performance of Pootle was not hardware constrained.
*the latest version of Pootle would be installed as soon as OOo 3.2 was released

Overall the position had stabilised. Engagement with the Pootle developers was good. We should look to get feedback from the community again in Q2 after the software upgrade. The CC would be willing to help the Pootle team carry out developments to meet OOo requirements if required.

'''Download Infrastructure Migration (MirrorBrain)'''

JPMcC reported that the Marketing Project download reporting system was now being fed from both Bouncer and MirrorBrain, and 3.2 would be released via MirrorBrain. He thanked the MirrorBrain team for their help in meeting OOo’s requirements.

'''Site Infrastructure Migration (Kenai)'''

ST reported on the project to migrate OOo from Collabnet to Kenai. Kenai is based on open source technologies such as Zoomla, Bugzilla, and Rails, but will be managed as a service by a team within Oracle. The OOo Project Leads and Web Project are now actively engaged on the migration which is planned to have three phases:

*fit-gap analysis of Kenai features vs OOo requirements (underway)
*any resulting OOo ‘must have’ features implemented in Kenai
*data migration scripts developed and proven (underway - Collabnet data dump received)

Migration must be complete by end of June. ST believed this was ambitious but achievable, as a pilot project (netbeans.org) had already migrated successfully. There would still be a requirement for a ‘*.services.oo.o’ for OOo-specific requirements.

Link: [http://kenai.com/projects/ooo-migration/pages/Home http://kenai.com/projects/ooo-migration/pages/Home]

==== Agenda Items ====

The additional agenda can be found [[Community Council/Agenda/Face2Face|here]].

'''Oracle / Sun'''

The CC noted the contents of the recent webcasts by Oracle, and that the formal Legal Entity Consolidation of Oracle and Sun Microsystems was due this month. The CC had always valued the relationship with Sun, and looked forward to a similarly fruitful relationship with Oracle. The CC extended their best wishes to the formerly Sun-sponsored community contributors in their new home as a global business unit within Oracle Corporation. The CC had no comment to make on Oracle’s announcement of a commercial ‘Cloud Office’ product other than to state new entrants are always welcome to the ODF ecosystem.

'''Education Project'''

Following on from the ''Developing developers'' initiative and the work with Seneca, the CC debated where these activities should be best placed with OOo. The Education Project would seem an obvious home, but the project had recently undertaken a number of initiatives which were already taking it in several different directions. The CC agreed to talk to the project leads about the structure and remit of the project, to give greater focus and avoid conflicts with other projects.

'''Branding'''

''The CC welcomed Rosana Ardila Biela for this item''

RAB gave a presentation on the work to refresh and relaunch the visual identity of OOo, as part of a branding initiative within the Marketing Project. She presented a revamped OOo logo which was still work in progress within the working party. The CC warmly welcomed the activity, and encouraged the team to reach consensus on a new logo. If the team was unable to do so, then they should present options to the CC for another decision / route - however, it was far better for the experts in the team to decide, rather than the amateurs on the CC!

'''Native Language Community development'''

The CC discussed ways of encouraging NLC development.

*Requests for financial support for Regional Conferences would be considered on a case by case basis. Funding would be start-up only, as conferences are expected to be self-financing. The CC recommends that OOo teams should be encouraged to join forces with other open-source projects to share the costs and efforts involved in running conferences.
*NLCs should be encouraged to volunteer for a ‘Native Language Community of the Month’ spotlight in the OOo Newsletter - C-HS to organise.
*The CC discussed direct funding of new localisations e.g. at the request of a government. Past experience suggested these did not lead to sustainable versions. The success of the NLC within OOo was based round a team of activists providing a complete package of localisation, QA, training, support, etc.

'''‘Greening’ OpenOffice.org'''

The CC discussed ways of minimising OOo’s carbon footprint. OOo’s infrastructure is mostly donated by third parties, which means the CC cannot make direct decisions about e.g. using only renewable electricity in datacentres. The CC agreed that OOoCon should be made more accessible for remote attendees as a priority, e.g. improved web streaming, dial-in access to sessions, mandatory advance submission of papers, etc. Support of remote attendees should be made a key deciding factor in awarding the 2011 OOoCon. The Marketing Project was also asked to consider options - e.g. should the MP be responsible for a web capability centrally every year rather than rely on local teams?

'''Extensions Repository'''

The Free Software Foundation (FSF) has notified the CC that the OOo Extensions Repository does not conform to FSF principles, as it hosts ‘non-free’ software. As a result, any software distributions wishing to conform to FSF standards should not make use of the OOo Repository. The CC agreed that licence information could be improved on the Repository, as this is an important factor people should consider when choosing extensions. The FSF would be welcomed to help in providing this sorting / filtering mechanism. However, the CC would not support a forking or partitioning of the Repository to exclude ‘non-free’ extensions. OOo respects the right of its users to make their own informed choice of software, and believes this is best achieved by a single Repository offering a full selection of extensions.

'''Community Council Effectiveness'''

CC members used the opportunity of this face to face meeting to brainstorm high and low points of 2009, and consider community goals for 2010/2011. An offline presentation by CN highlighted the lack of a consistent trail from the overall OOo mission statement down to project or release goals.

The CC discussed issues with its current processes:

*CC members over-committing to Action Items, which they then fail to deliver
*the quality of the minutes, which makes it hard for community members to understand what the CC is doing
*the amount of time taken up on IRC presenting status reports, which could be more efficiently done in advance

The CC also needs to improve its communication with the Community. The CC agreed to experiment with starting meetings with a public session. The Minutes should be prepared in a form that anyone can understand without having to work through IRC logs. It should also be possible to copy and paste from the Minutes into the monthly OOo Newsletter to give a ‘This Month in the Community Council’ article.

CN (the current facilitator) agreed to work on a new meeting template including these improvements. JPMcC agreed to write up the minutes for this meeting.

'''2010 Budget'''

MHe reported that the current level of monthly donations was sufficient to support the proposed budget. The majority of these donations came from small contributions via PayPal. The CC agreed to adopt the draft budget for 2010 but review it quarterly to see if the allocation between different headings should be amended. MHe agreed to publish a summary of ‘actual vs budget’ quarterly on the wiki. JPMcC agreed to refresh the budget wiki pages for 2010. All projects should be encouraged to put forward proposals for using all the available funding.

==== Action Items ====

{| class="prettytable"
|-
! No
! Action
! Who
! When
! Status
|-
| 
| Prepare wiki page for ‘Events’
| LS-P
| 
| ongoing
|-
| 
| Hold CC Elections (Martin, Pavel, John)
| LS-P
| 
| transferred to CN with help from JMcC
|-
| 
| Refresh Incubator and NLC Project processes
| LS-P
| 
| 
|-
| 
| Publicise the open slot at the start of the CC meetings
| LS-P
| 
| 
|-
| 402.1
| Work with Clayton on estimates for ''Developing developers'' documentation
| JS
| 
| 
|-
| 402.2
| Talk to Google about 2010 SoC
| JPMcC
| 
| 
|-
| 402.3
| Talk to Education Project Leads about structure and remit
| CNou
| 
| 
|-
| 402.4
| Talk to NLC about ‘NLC of the Month’ for OOo Newsletter
| C-HS
| 
| 
|-
| 402.5
| Talk to Marketing Project about OOoCon support for remote attendees
| JPMcC
| 
| 
|-
| 402.6
| Reply to FSF Extensions Repository
| LS-P
| 
| 
|-
| 402.7
| New template for CC meetings
| CN
| 
| 
|-
| 402.8
| Refresh Budget Pages on the Wiki with input from MHe
| JPMcC
| 
| 
|}

 

== 2010-01-21 ==

=== IRC log ===

*[[Community Council Log 20100121]]

=== AIs ===

#Budget '''Louis: prepare a wiki page with events'''.
#Trademark Policy ''ST to take back to trademark list''
#Elections: first cycle is finished. Next steps:
##''Jürgen: Update council webpage'': (done)
##''Louis: Notification to broader community about results'' (done)
##'''Louis: Initiate phase 2 of the new election for Martin, Pavel, John.''': put on hold until after holidays, viz., post 6 jan
##'''Louis: advertise public part at #ooocouncilpub in the beginning before next council meeting''': Louis suggest we do it for next meeting.
#OpenOffice.org Internship
##'''Martin to put together a proposal for hiring a technical writer to document getting started on OOo development.''': open
##'''AI: "Winter of Code"; Cor to own and cry for help if required.'''; list to be used is mentoring @ ooo: open
#Distribution infrastructure (Bouncer); '''John''': We are on target to use mirrorbrain for 3.2; Louis proposed '''AI: that the CC publicly thanks the volunteer mirrors on the release of 3.2 for 9 plus years of heroic work including and esp. osuosl.'''
#l10n infrastructure (Pootle): ''ST: Pootle version upgrade imminent beginnig 2010''; ''AI: Owner?: find better tool that is a closer fit, if necessary''; '''Cor is going to contact Andre.'''
#Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC. '''Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list - carry forward'''; see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2101] to be inforporated in http://native-lang.openoffice.org/#terminus and http://www.openoffice.org/about_us/protocols_proposing.html
#Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects. '''Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting - carry forward'''
#Budget 2010: ''AI: all budget holders to submit their requests for a share of this 100k''. See proposal from Matthias [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2324]; '''Vote on Matthias' Proposal pending'''
#Council coordinator: '''choosing ST's successor''' (for the period from February 2010 - May 2010). (done)
#'''Juergen: Prepare Agenda for F2F Meeting in Hamburg, February 4/5;'''
#Ja added: How to handle impolite remarks in IssueTracker issues ? See issue 107456. Corresponding user ignores changes made to the issue he wrote. (done)

== Archived Meeting Minutes ==

The following pages archive the old meeting minutes of the Community Council:

*[[Community Council/Minutes 2009|Minutes 2009]]
*[[Community Council/Minutes 2008|Minutes 2008]]
*[[Community Council/Minutes 2007|Minutes 2007]]

[[Category:Community_Council]]

Community Council Log 20100429

2010-05-05T17:57:51Z

LouisSuarez: Created page with '=== IRC Log 2010-04-29 === Supposed start time: 18:30 UTC * Time offset −0400 UTC Location: IRC == Attendees == * Christoph Noack (christoph_n) * Eike Rathke (erAck) * …'

=== IRC Log 2010-04-29 ===

Supposed start time: 18:30 UTC
* Time offset −0400 UTC

Location: IRC

== Attendees ==

* Christoph Noack (christoph_n)
* Eike Rathke (erAck)
* Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
* Louis Suárez-Potts (louis_to)
* Stefan Taxhet (stx12)

==Absent==

* Cor Nouws (holiday)
* Charles-H. Schulz
* Olivier Hallot
* mystery candidate

== Log ==

<pre>

[14:47:00] * mhu thinks we should start
[14:47:12] louis_to we did
[14:47:27] louis_to all in favour of prior minutes?
[14:47:48] louis_to oh---procedureal point: who is driving today's meeting? I can do it but is christoph_n wanting to?
[14:48:09] christoph_n Louis, go on :-) I just updated the agenda page.
[14:48:26] christoph_n Although I have to admit that there is no real agenda of the last meeting ...
[14:48:36] louis_to okay, thanks
[14:48:47] louis_to so we approve; any objections, please indicate now or in the list
[14:49:06] louis_to 1. : elections have taken place and results posted.k
[14:49:17] louis_to thanks to Stefan and the oithers for doing the work!
[14:49:33] louis_to especial thanks to Stefan, in fact, who served as commisaire
[14:50:00] stx12 no, that was christoph_n
[14:50:07] louis_to ah :-)
[14:50:12] louis_to then my hat is off to you, tooi
[14:50:16] christoph_n ;-)
[14:50:28] christoph_n However, can we "close" this AI? There is a follow-up...
[14:50:33] * mhu thinks, speaking of election results, we should welcome Eike, no ?
[14:50:44] louis_to yes, to both!
[14:50:49] louis_to and that was my next point
[14:50:59] louis_to Welcome to Eike!
[14:51:05] erAck thanks :)
[14:51:17] jsc i think we should inform Olivier about our frequent meetings ...
[14:51:18] stx12 you'll have fun with us ;-)
[14:51:21] louis_to I'd like to then issue a public welcome, as we did with the others
[14:51:27] christoph_n or make fun of us
[14:51:43] louis_to and only regret that we, or at least I, cannot be part of the anticipated beer party :-)
[14:53:59] jsc AI closed? Louis will send the official welcome mail
[14:55:29] louis_to yes
[14:55:36] louis_to today, in fact
[14:55:51] stx12 plus the thanks to our former members; btw now i have the chance to introduce martin as my stand-in
[14:56:20] louis_to yes.
[14:56:22] louis_to :-)
[14:56:36] jsc yes, and please include a link on our meeting schedule in the welcome mail
[14:56:41] louis_to the only item for elections reconsideration is the Produt Dev. Rep.
[14:56:48] louis_to thanks; good point
[14:57:01] louis_to I'll send it first to discuss@council
[14:57:45] louis_to by the way, I think using "accepted/ non accepted" is not quite so felicitous in English, and I'd prefer a slightly different terminology, but it's not important, really
[14:57:57] louis_to I refer to: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Elections/2010-03
[14:57:58] christoph_n Proposals welcome...
[14:58:22] christoph_n (I thought about it, really.)
[14:58:25] louis_to stx12: have you added Olivier and Eike to the discuss@coiuncil list and Christoph, have you updated the relevant web page?
[14:58:40] louis_to or jsc?
[14:58:52] christoph_n I don't have write access (or, I never tried).
[14:58:54] louis_to in short, we need to update the relevant pages with the new members' information
[14:59:01] jsc i have updated the council webpage
[14:59:08] louis_to really? I guess I failed to give you that; I shall do so now
[14:59:26] louis_to jsc, thanks
[14:59:39] christoph_n Ah, forced reload makes it visible.
[14:59:51] stx12 louis_to: no, i'll add them to the list...
[15:00:03] jsc well the new design is till missing
[15:00:04] christoph_n @jsc: Could you please update the "five project leads" issue? This doesn't conform to the current CC structure.
[15:00:31] jsc ok, i will correct it
[15:00:42] christoph_n Sorry, of course ... don't update the issue. *g*
[15:01:13] louis_to christoph_n: off channle, can you send me your username for OOo?
[15:01:19] louis_to likewise, eike, I forgot yours
[15:01:27] louis_to thanks, stx12
[15:01:34] christoph_n Yes, I can do that - anyway: christophnoack
[15:01:35] erAck louis_to: er
[15:01:57] louis_to okay, once these are doine, list esp., the key procedural issues for new members is tkane care of, lacking only the re-process of the dev. rep.
[15:02:07] louis_to thanks, eike
[15:02:15] stx12 eike and olivier are subscribed
[15:02:21] louis_to thanks
[15:04:08] christoph_n Next item?
[15:04:11] louis_to so, on to #2
[15:04:23] louis_to I have not sent what I meant to two weeks ago, the update to the language
[15:04:30] louis_to my only change that is substantial:
[15:04:42] louis_to after 6 months, the project can be deemed to be effectively dead
[15:04:53] louis_to if there is no meaningful activity oin the lists
[15:05:04] louis_to this obtains for both NLC and Incubator projects
[15:05:40] louis_to I'd also liek to add the clarification that merely by having an INcubator project--we want many---does not mean that it will necessarily go on to Accepted status
[15:05:41] jsc sounds reasonable for me
[15:05:56] louis_to it means nothing at all, in fact and to move on requires a specific request by the lead
[15:06:47] christoph_n Short question: Is there a complete text available? I didn't see anything on counci-discuss ... nor in my inbox (but maybe I have missed it).
[15:06:51] louis_to my addition of that latter comes from a discussion I had recently, where "incubator" was seen as inevitably leading to accepted
[15:07:10] louis_to christoph_n: no
[15:07:15] louis_to but I will send it in
[15:07:28] christoph_n Okay.
[15:07:42] louis_to the language for both is fairly similar but the incubator has the divergences: does one want to make it an accepted or keep it as is?
[15:08:14] jsc i would like to talk more about specific tasks. And not about projects. Sometimes we need things to be done and they are finished the task is finished and that's it. No further activity necessary ...
[15:08:16] louis_to and if it is to be clsoed, is this then a fore-step in the process to accepted, in which case, "closure" is simply a renaming, oir is it really a sign of neglect
[15:08:29] louis_to jsc: context?
[15:08:42] jsc .. when they are finished ...
[15:08:49] louis_to an incubator / project can be of that sort
[15:09:00] louis_to stx12 and I had this dicussion about 7, 8 years ago
[15:09:14] jsc i think it's wrong to create new projects for everything ...
[15:09:16] louis_to and the issue then is the issue now: to devise, using CollabNet's tools, ad hoc projects
[15:09:37] louis_to and that was the issue that he raised, as a project is a memory that will linger, no matter how we expunge it
[15:09:50] louis_to the solution as such is to use the wiki and subproject
[15:09:59] louis_to but then that has NOTHING to do with an incubator project as such
[15:10:27] louis_to but need only be mentioned in the guidelines, and the logistics there woiuld be to work with the iteam that comes into being for this purpose
[15:10:33] louis_to so that one can find it
[15:10:41] louis_to I can put some language to that point, thanks
[15:10:53] louis_to eg, if oine wants an ad hoc project, then doi X, Y, Z.
[15:11:10] louis_to or to resolve a specific problem or task
[15:11:30] louis_to but we also resolved this long ago by focusing more on IssueZilla, as we had it then
[15:11:37] jsc the term project as we use it tody raise too much expectations from my point of view
[15:11:47] jsc but hey it's my personal opinion
[15:11:49] louis_to yes, we agree, jsc, and we are way ahead of you
[15:12:07] louis_to and I simply a) agreed, and b) laid out solution, and c) provided historical context
[15:12:54] jsc ok, go ahead ...
[15:13:01] louis_to right, so #3
[15:13:17] louis_to Martin's AI....
[15:13:48] louis_to given the absence of MH, I'd suggest to just send in a proposal to the list along the lines of,
[15:14:23] jsc i will talk to Martin and if necessary will take over this AI
[15:14:31] louis_to thanks
[15:14:39] mhu maybe, we could ask Martin to send his proposal ?
[15:14:56] mhu okay, thanks jsc
[15:14:58] louis_to it's not so hard.... just to focus on getting qs. from the peopel and also setting up a time period
[15:15:08] louis_to kidn of like what we do during OOoCon
[15:15:33] mhu right
[15:18:48] christoph_n (tick tack tick ta...)
[15:19:01] louis_to move on to #4
[15:19:10] jsc see the update in the agenda
[15:19:12] jsc no real update because the lack of time. But we are working on it and i hope to publish a first draft soon (probably next week)
[15:19:13] jsc I am looking forward how this concept will be accepted and how it will work ...
[15:19:58] louis_to thanks. can you suggest when there might be an update?
[15:20:06] louis_to my interest relates to:
[15:20:11] jsc sorry that i can't give more new info but i had an unplanned stop for 5 days in Brazil
[15:20:16] louis_to a) it's nearly summer for many students in the North Hemisphere
[15:20:20] louis_to ah
[15:20:28] louis_to yes, am familiar with that problem....
[15:20:35] louis_to and with ashy forecsats.
[15:21:15] louis_to b) I'd like to see if we can aim this for the coming school year, as the summer period may be over by now for new issues like this
[15:21:30] jsc well the bounties are open for all not only students and if they get well accepted it can be an ongoing effort as long as we have money for new ...
[15:22:06] louis_to right; but it's the marketing that will attract new (students or not) that needs to be pitched....
[15:22:08] louis_to that's all
[15:22:35] louis_to for instance, it'd be very cool to announce something like this at OOoCon or even at Oracle Open World
[15:23:12] jsc sure, i will do my best and i am sure that we will have something to announce soon
[15:23:13] louis_to oir at Oscon (July) or even at something similar elsewhere in the world... too late for LinuxTag, alas
[15:23:19] louis_to thanks!!
[15:23:32] louis_to #5....
[15:23:46] louis_to no update....
[15:23:51] louis_to #6...
[15:23:54] * mhu thinks, louis_to is talking about internship, not docu bounties ?
[15:24:04] stx12 actually there is... for #5
[15:24:10] louis_to go ahead.....
[15:24:46] stx12 we stumbled over the budget and cor asked us (mhu, mh and me) to think about a resolution.
[15:25:18] stx12 it was proposed to use some of the money left from last year for the internship.
[15:26:02] stx12 we think there is a one time opportunity to do that and raise the development budget.
[15:26:46] stx12 we should avoid the impression that we can do that on a regular basis. but we would like to run the internship every year.
[15:27:04] louis_to thanks.
[15:27:18] louis_to I'd be hopeful we can obtain a regular source from a corporate angel
[15:27:19] stx12 second there was an amount of 8 slots x 4000 EUR proposed.
[15:27:42] stx12 at least i understood that we talked about EUR.
[15:27:59] mhu ...increase the budget, so that docu bounties and internship can be covered this year. ... stx12 is explaining it all ... so I stay silent ...
[15:28:12] stx12 lokking at similar programs this amount seems to high.
[15:28:17] stx12 too high.
[15:28:32] louis_to stx12: that was my impression, too, but Cor pointed out the math....
[15:28:41] louis_to ie, 8 X 4K
[15:29:11] stx12 i'm fine with 4k USD or 3.5K EUR (which is even more)
[15:29:23] jsc me too
[15:29:58] mhu finally, we have not (yet) so much money as Google
[15:30:08] stx12 so we will clarify the budget with martin (who is the owner) so that we can run the internship and the bounties and have a bit air to breath
[15:30:31] jsc sounds like a plan
[15:30:44] stx12 an dmartin just send a message that other expenses shouldn't be a blocker.
[15:31:14] stx12 to me this sounds like we are ready to continue with the internship as planned by cor and friends...
[15:31:48] louis_to yes.
[15:32:19] mhu yes
[15:32:28] jsc yes, should inform Cor about the update ...
[15:32:44] jsc .. i inform ...
[15:32:49] louis_to shall we then update the item ? It seems quite solid and also allows us then to move publicly with this, once we have the other elements
[15:33:25] louis_to that is to say, "What remains for the internship to move forward?"
[15:34:00] jsc update of the related wiki page, i can at least update the money related items
[15:34:08] louis_to thanks
[15:34:20] louis_to and then? I mean, when can we start soliciting for interns, etc.?
[15:34:26] louis_to there are many who could be interested
[15:34:36] stx12 initiate the budget request with martin...
[15:34:48] louis_to and I' dlike to ensure that we work with marketing on this
[15:35:02] louis_to which i can do, but ....
[15:35:45] stx12 cor, jsc and mathias b. will takes this i guess.
[15:36:21] louis_to then let's ask them to work with Marketing...
[15:36:25] jsc i have already promoted it or at least the plans in Brazil ;-)
[15:36:35] jsc i will take care of it
[15:37:33] erAck before we market internships, wouldn't we need tasks from the projects first that could be worked on in an internship?
[15:38:17] louis_to yes.
[15:38:37] jsc well, we have the to-do lists and of course people can suggest their own project.
[15:38:43] stx12 that's what i raised last time. the approach was planned a bit different to avoid the blocker. but yes, that helps.
[15:38:45] louis_to much needs to be refined, first, but we can still Market the idea in general and start engaging the MKT group to expand its boundaries
[15:38:58] erAck ok
[15:39:12] christoph_n The "project proposals" aren't up to date, I think. The wiki page by Cor lists some suggestions how to continue.
[15:39:44] stx12 i think i will call for "task proposals" anyway - if noone objects...
[15:39:58] christoph_n stx12: Very good!
[15:40:10] jsc up to date is relative. Ideas that ae not yet implemented are still open...
[15:40:54] stx12 yes, but not every idea / effort / task / project is in scope for the internship...
[15:41:12] stx12 let's put out a list in parallel to all the todos.
[15:41:18] louis_to I think any new proposal must be negotiated
[15:41:55] louis_to shall we move on to #6?
[15:42:10] stx12 yes
[15:42:25] mhu yes
[15:42:52] jsc yes
[15:43:02] louis_to nothing substantial I can add to agenda items; it has to do with the actual remit of Education project. This will be more feasibly addressed now that the internship program is moving forward, I believe
[15:43:48] louis_to shall we move on to #7?
[15:44:09] christoph_n Mmh, should we then close it? Or just wait...
[15:44:14] stx12 yes, where is sotherncross btw...
[15:44:17] louis_to afaik, no updates, but I do have a really long and interesting email from Sinhala
[15:44:34] christoph_n (Sorry, I meant #6)
[15:44:49] louis_to project lead, and I'll see if I can put that into the newsletter. it pertains to questions related to OOo in Sinhala and other issues
[15:45:17] louis_to but let's move onto post-#7
[15:46:14] louis_to and I confess I doin't see how we can discuss these items here as proposals requriing yes/no votes
[15:46:24] louis_to if anyone wants to add insight here....
[15:46:51] christoph_n Sorry, do we really talk about 2010-04-01#7?
[15:47:32] louis_to my point is : no
[15:47:41] louis_to until they are framed in a way that allows for talk
[15:47:49] louis_to so, I'd like to call to adjourn today's meeting
[15:48:06] louis_to IRC log will be posted shortly; AIs: I ask someone else to update the page?
[15:48:20] christoph_n Sorry, there are some items that are important.
[15:48:25] louis_to and before ending today's, I'd like to ask Eike if he has anytinmng he wants to add...
[15:48:29] mhu can we at least quickly talk about next meetings schedule (last item)
[15:48:31] louis_to oh, okay, go ahead
[15:48:45] louis_to agreed: christoph_n: go ahead
[15:48:58] christoph_n Okay.
[15:49:04] erAck louis_to: I've nothing to add today.
[15:49:11] christoph_n Jumping to 2010-04-29#1: CC Election
[15:49:26] christoph_n Everybody knows the current situation - the proposal is to re-do the election cycle.
[15:49:38] christoph_n First question: Do we agree here?
[15:49:53] christoph_n (for the Product Dev Representative)
[15:50:02] stx12 yes
[15:50:03] erAck yes
[15:50:06] louis_to +1
[15:50:27] mhu +1
[15:50:30] jsc +1
[15:50:32] christoph_n +1
[15:50:40] christoph_n Okay, are there any other seats to be elected (soon)? Can we combine an election?
[15:51:19] louis_to christoph_n: that would be for me, new product dev, and who else? mhu, I believe
[15:51:29] mhu probably
[15:51:44] christoph_n probably ... with a tendency towards ... :-)
[15:52:00] mhu ...1
[15:52:28] christoph_n Okay, are there any reasons to wait a few days/weeks, or should we start as soon as possible?
[15:52:41] christoph_n (I think we can start in a few days.)
[15:52:46] stx12 please remeeber that we can only run 1 election for a constituency at a time.
[15:52:56] stx12 i don't see a need to wait.
[15:53:04] mhu we used to have some overlap between old and new members terms ...
[15:53:20] louis_to i would wait until June, so as the new members can learn what is what
[15:53:30] louis_to and this is echoing mhu
[15:53:31] stx12 a few days is ok; but then let's restart the election for the product dev seat.
[15:53:37] mhu thats what i wanted to say
[15:53:40] christoph_n Ah, so the "5 project leads representatives" are like "product dev seats".
[15:54:15] stx12 no, they are a mixture of prod dev and code contribs
[15:54:45] christoph_n Okay, to be clear: We start the election cycle as soon as possible to find a representative for the product dev.
[15:54:58] christoph_n mhu and louis_to have to wait ;-)
[15:54:58] stx12 christoph_n: yes
[15:55:06] mhu yes
[15:55:08] louis_to yes, that is desired
[15:55:23] christoph_n Good, then I'll prepare the wiki page to election 2010-05.
[15:55:35] christoph_n Upcoming ...
[15:55:48] stx12 thanks
[15:55:49] christoph_n 2010-04-29#2: Missing OOo desktop presence
[15:56:11] christoph_n I know that it is late, but we already missed the request for the last meeting. Let's - at least - see how to deal with it.
[15:56:32] louis_to christoph_n: my point was and is that it needs to be framed in a way that is actionable
[15:56:34] louis_to it is not now
[15:56:46] louis_to if you wish to frame it that way, go ahead
[15:57:37] christoph_n My question was about how to continue. Is a discussion (soon) on the list appropriate for all?
[15:57:53] mhu yes
[15:58:12] christoph_n At least, we accept this AI since it is a community member request - yes?
[15:58:20] louis_to not necessarily
[15:58:30] louis_to why don't you send it to the list and let us deal with it there?
[15:58:44] louis_to a proper question and proposal must be actionable and must be within our remit
[15:58:46] christoph_n Cor already asked us and nobody (really) replied.
[15:58:55] louis_to we cannot accept those things that are out of our buonds
[15:59:06] stx12 we hear the request and will propose a follow-up activity.
[15:59:09] louis_to and Cor's acceptance is not the same as our being able to actualluy act on it
[15:59:48] christoph_n stx12: Hear means, to forward it to council-discuss?
[16:00:05] louis_to christoph_n: yes, please
[16:00:27] christoph_n Louis, what would make this item "more actionable"?
[16:00:41] louis_to can we vote ? is it within our remit?
[16:00:46] stx12 no, it means, we heard / read it. i was going to say that i'm not sure that we will decide / discuss the question, but propose how to proceed.
[16:00:46] louis_to let's see it on the list, please
[16:01:11] louis_to I disagree with stx12 then, as I believe this should be framed in a way that can worked with if at all on the list
[16:01:56] stx12 fine with me; i didn't think of raising proposals now.
[16:02:30] jsc fine for me as well, let's move on the list
[16:02:33] christoph_n I'm lost a bit :-) Louis, then please answer on the (upcoming) request on council-discuss how it can be made "more actionable" and "better framed".
[16:02:45] christoph_n Good. Last item...
[16:02:52] louis_to sure
[16:02:53] christoph_n 2010-04-29#3: CC meetings calendar
[16:03:38] christoph_n I'm more or less fine with the two weeks schedule, but the last 3 times either IRC Log or Meeting Minutes were missing. So if we need more time (or pressure) we should go back to the old schedule.
[16:03:48] christoph_n (last time: both missing)
[16:04:17] stx12 christoph_n: the last log was not linked but at the usual location
[16:04:22] * mhu is fine with the dates as proposed in the calendar (i.e. 3 weeks schedule)
[16:04:35] louis_to me too
[16:04:42] christoph_n (Then I'll link it.)
[16:04:56] stx12 done already
[16:05:03] christoph_n stx12 -- cool!
[16:05:15] christoph_n Eike, Jürgen, Stefan?
[16:05:35] jsc i am not available in 2 weeks -> vacation. And i will check the other dates ... most of them looks fine
[16:05:42] stx12 fine with me; now that i have a stand-in ;-)
[16:05:46] christoph_n ;-)
[16:05:57] christoph_n (So Martin is with us all the time...)
[16:06:21] erAck every 3 weeks is fine, I think.
[16:06:24] christoph_n Eike, you may not agree to each of the items - just state if you are generally fine.
[16:06:26] christoph_n (Oh, thanks)
[16:06:27] stx12 he is on irc but to shy to join ;-)
[16:07:00] christoph_n Okay, anything else?
[16:07:05] * erAck is switching back and forth between browser and irc ...
[16:07:19] jsc i saw, the next meeting is in 3 weeks. It's fine for ;-)
[16:07:41] christoph_n Good. One last question: How to deal with the minutes?
[16:07:55] louis_to by minutes youi mean AIs
[16:07:56] louis_to yes?
[16:07:57] christoph_n I can incorporate the changes for the last items I "moderated"
[16:07:59] louis_to I can do the IRC
[16:08:14] louis_to and I ahd asked for updates to the webpage continaing the agneda with AIs
[16:08:21] louis_to there was no response; you are asking that again
[16:09:00] christoph_n Since we agreed to manage both agenda and work status in one table ...
[16:09:05] louis_to my impression was that we were all responsible for updating our own AIs
[16:09:28] louis_to thereore, it is the responsibiliy of the AI assignee to update the webpage, yes?
[16:09:31] christoph_n Will we do that? The last times it didn't work (well).
[16:09:43] louis_to let's try it again.k
[16:09:52] louis_to rahter than waste time here :-)
[16:09:54] christoph_n We agreed on one person to "finalize" (minor touches) the agenda and copy it to the meeting minutes page.
[16:11:06] christoph_n Waste = neither having a clear agenda nor minutes for the community
[16:11:42] louis_to then I'll finalize it but requre that all with AIs update their relevant sections
[16:11:54] christoph_n Will do that today, I think.
[16:11:54] louis_to and I'll post this IRC to the usual location after meeting ends
[16:13:04] christoph_n If this is okay for everyone, we may close this meeting. Louis, okay?
[16:13:17] louis_to yes, and only indicate if it is NOT okay
[16:13:20] louis_to :-)
[16:13:26] louis_to so all in favour of adjourning the meeting?
</pre>

Community Council/Minutes

2010-03-04T21:45:07Z

LouisSuarez:

=Minutes of Meetings=

==2010-03-04==
=== IRC Log ===
See [[Community Council Log 20100304]]

=== Minutes ===
Minutes plus action items to come....

== 2010-02-18 ==

=== IRC Log ===

List of attendees and IRC log can be found here: [[Community Council Log 20100218]]

=== Minutes ===

{| class="prettytable"
|-
! No
! Action Item
! Owner
! Status
! Additional Information 
|-
| 0
| List of Action Items of previous meeting for approval
| - 
| Approved 
| 
|-
| 1 
| Prepare wiki page for ‘Events’
| Louis
| Done
|
List of events interesting for OpenOffice.org available at [http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Events#Year_2010 Events, Year 2010]. From now on, it needs to be completed by MarCon.

|-
| 2 
| Hold CC Elections (Martin, Pavel, John)
| Louis / Christoph 
| In progress 
|
Louis is currently preparing the initial email "New election for Community Council". A second draft is already available and feedback has already been provided. 

Next Steps: 

*Louis is asked to send the initial email - if its ready. 
*Christoph will have a look at the election process and (support to) trigger the next steps. 

|-
| 3 
| Refresh Incubator and NLC Project processes
| Louis
| 
| No update. Will be discussed in next meeting. 
|-
| 4 
| Publicise the open slot at the start of the CC meetings
| Louis 
| 
| No update. Will be discussed in next meeting. 
|-
| 5
| Work with Clayton on estimates for ''Developing developers'' documentation
| Jürgen 
| In progress
|
Clayton has send a first draft to council-discuss ([http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2454 Draft of the Community Council proposal to hire a Tech Writer]), we need some confirmation how to proceed keeping the proposed quote in mind. 

Discussion: 

*The costs are estimated to be roughly 40 K USD. It has been agreed that this seems to be a realistic estimation and maintainability is a very important question. 
*These costs do not fit in any currently planned budget. Some proposals were made how this work might be split / separated to get more manageable pieces (in terms of budget). But it has also been raised that it might only make sense if it is worked on the full documentation. 
*It has been agreed that - before any further decision can be made - all people should have a closer look at Clayton's proposal. 

Next Steps: 

*All CC members will have a closer look at the proposal (link above). (Added by Christoph: Everybody is free to provide proposals how to proceed.) 
*A funding proposal request has to be worked out for the the next meeting. 

|-
| 6
| Talk to Google about 2010 SoC
| John
| In progress 
|
John has sent a mail to the Google representative Leslie Hawthorn a couple of days ago. We are waiting for an answer.

Discussion: It has been raised that the applications for "would-be mentoring applications" is open from 2010-03-08 to 2010-03-12 ([http://groups.google.com/group/google-summer-of-code-discuss/browse_thread/thread/d839c0b02ac15b3f source]). 

Next Steps: 

*Cor and John will keep the Community Council updated. 
*The topic will be raised in the next meeting which will be held in two weeks of time. 

|-
| 7
| Talk to Education Project Leads about structure and remit
| Cor
| In progress 
|
Next Step: Cor will prepare a draft and present it to the Community Council. 

|-
| 8
| Talk to NLC about ‘NLC of the Month’ for OOo Newsletter
| Charles
| In progress 
|
Announcement has been made on the NLC list. One "volunteer" project found for the first month month, the Irish Gaelic project. 

Discussion (a little bit off-topic): 

*John did also inform the responsible for the OpenOffice.org Newsletter (Kay Koll) to use some information from the Community Council minutes. 
*The question was raised how to support Kay to ensure valid information. Sophie stated that usually the newsletter draft is reviewed. 

Next Steps: 

*Charles currently prepares an interview (source: internal mail). 
*Action item will be kept "in progress" until Charles is back. 

|-
| 9
| Talk to Marketing Project about OOoCon support for remote attendees
| John
| Done 
|
Request has been discussed with the Hungarian OOoCon team and with MarCon. The proposal that the MP should set up a 'permanent' arrangement for video for all OOoCons may need finance - probably next year's budget though. The Marketing Project is still discussing if this is a better approach. 

Discussion (a little bit off-topic): 

*Short discussion of whether the location of the OOoCons should be fixed or not. A comparison has been made to FOSDEM. 
*The action item will be closed, because the Marketing Project is aware of this issue. 

|-
| 10
| Reply to FSF Extensions Repository
| Louis
| Done 
| Louis sent the mail and the FSF (Peter Brown) already replied. 
|-
| 11
| New template for CC meetings
| Christoph
| In progress 
|
Some of the proposals from the face-to-face meeting in Hamburg have been summarized. Work on a draft has been started. It is available at [http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Proposed_Improvements Community_Council/Proposed_Improvements]. 

Discussion: 

*Cor estimated this work to be close-to-final. 
*A discussion on how to name the Action Items. The basic requirement is to identify the "age" of the items. Several proposals have been made. 

Next Steps: 

*Everybody will have a look at the draft and provide feedback (if required). 
*Christoph will finalize the proposal and present it in the next meeting to officially accept or reject it. 

|-
| 12
| Refresh Budget Pages on the Wiki with input from Matthias
| John
| 
|
No update. John will work on that until the next meeting. 

Remark: The budget has already been accepted in the face-to-face meeting in Hamburg.

|-
| 13
| Confirm/discuss [http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Calendar proposed dates] for future council meetings
| Christoph
| In progress 
|
A first proposal is available at [[Community_Council/Calendar|Community Council Calendar]].

Discussion:

*According to Stefan the need for information might be higher during the next months.
*It has been proposed to change the schedule so that the Community Council meetings will be held each two weeks. This applies to the meetings in the next two months to check if this is applicable.
*Some people expressed the demand to reduce the meeting time to about one hour.

Next Step: Christoph will re-work the proposed dates and inform the Community Council members. 

|-
|
| Update of the OpenOffice.org logo and the branding initiative
| -
|
|
Additional discussion.

Discussion:

*Two proposals have been presented to the branding working group.
*A due date has been proposed to finalize the effort.

|-
|
| Trademark
| -
|
|
Additional discussion.

Discussion: Stefan will provide some updates in the next meeting.

|}

 

== 2010-02-04/05 (F2F Meeting in Hamburg) ==

=== Minutes ===

==== Attendees ====

{| class="prettytable"
|-
! Name
! Initials (not the OOo user name)
|-
| Martin Hollmichel
| MHo
|-
| Matthias Huetsch
| MHu
|-
| Cor Nouws
| CNou
|-
| Christoph Noack
| CN
|-
| Louis Suarez-Potts
| LS-P
|-
| Charles-H. Schulz
| C-HS
|-
| John McCreesh
| JPMcC
|-
| Stefan Taxhet
| ST
|-
| Jürgen Schmidt
| JS
|}

==== Status Updates from CC Sponsored Activities ====

===== Trademark Policy =====

ST reported that the draft trademark policy was being reviewed by Sun Legal, but no major changes were expected.

===== Developing developers =====

''The CC welcomed Clayton Cornell for this item'' 

The CC discussed three areas where documentation could be improved: 

*how-to get into core development (technical) 
*how-to engage in the community development process (people) 
*how-to get into extension development (technical) 

There was a discussion on the merits of traditional paper-based documentation versus webinars etc for each of these. 

The CC agreed to focus on extensions, possibly based on Per’s current work with Kai on a gallery extension. Clayton was actioned to come back with a budgetary estimate for the work.

The CC agreed to talk to Google to see whether the Oracle takeover meant that OOo would be accepted this year for the Summer of Code exercise. If not, the CC should press on with its own internship exercise.

===== Pootle Infrastructure =====

''The CC welcomed Rafaella Braconi for this item''

*A new Pootle sys admin was now in place and was actively managing the system
*Some background scripts had been removed. Feedback from the engineers was that performance of Pootle was not hardware constrained.
*the latest version of Pootle would be installed as soon as OOo 3.2 was released

Overall the position had stabilised. Engagement with the Pootle developers was good. We should look to get feedback from the community again in Q2 after the software upgrade. The CC would be willing to help the Pootle team carry out developments to meet OOo requirements if required.

===== Download Infrastructure Migration (MirrorBrain) =====

JPMcC reported that the Marketing Project download reporting system was now being fed from both Bouncer and MirrorBrain, and 3.2 would be released via MirrorBrain. He thanked the MirrorBrain team for their help in meeting OOo’s requirements.

===== Site Infrastructure Migration (Kenai) =====

ST reported on the project to migrate OOo from Collabnet to Kenai. Kenai is based on open source technologies such as Zoomla, Bugzilla, and Rails, but will be managed as a service by a team within Oracle. The OOo Project Leads and Web Project are now actively engaged on the migration which is planned to have three phases:

*fit-gap analysis of Kenai features vs OOo requirements (underway)
*any resulting OOo ‘must have’ features implemented in Kenai
*data migration scripts developed and proven (underway - Collabnet data dump received)

Migration must be complete by end of June. ST believed this was ambitious but achievable, as a pilot project (netbeans.org) had already migrated successfully. There would still be a requirement for a ‘*.services.oo.o’ for OOo-specific requirements.

Link: [http://kenai.com/projects/ooo-migration/pages/Home http://kenai.com/projects/ooo-migration/pages/Home]

==== Agenda Items ====

The additional agenda can be found [[Community Council/Agenda/Face2Face|here]].

===== Oracle / Sun =====

The CC noted the contents of the recent webcasts by Oracle, and that the formal Legal Entity Consolidation of Oracle and Sun Microsystems was due this month. The CC had always valued the relationship with Sun, and looked forward to a similarly fruitful relationship with Oracle. The CC extended their best wishes to the formerly Sun-sponsored community contributors in their new home as a global business unit within Oracle Corporation. The CC had no comment to make on Oracle’s announcement of a commercial ‘Cloud Office’ product other than to state new entrants are always welcome to the ODF ecosystem.

===== Education Project =====

Following on from the ''Developing developers'' initiative and the work with Seneca, the CC debated where these activities should be best placed with OOo. The Education Project would seem an obvious home, but the project had recently undertaken a number of initiatives which were already taking it in several different directions. The CC agreed to talk to the project leads about the structure and remit of the project, to give greater focus and avoid conflicts with other projects.

===== Branding =====

''The CC welcomed Rosana Ardila Biela for this item''

RAB gave a presentation on the work to refresh and relaunch the visual identity of OOo, as part of a branding initiative within the Marketing Project. She presented a revamped OOo logo which was still work in progress within the working party. The CC warmly welcomed the activity, and encouraged the team to reach consensus on a new logo. If the team was unable to do so, then they should present options to the CC for another decision / route - however, it was far better for the experts in the team to decide, rather than the amateurs on the CC!

===== Native Language Community development =====

The CC discussed ways of encouraging NLC development.

*Requests for financial support for Regional Conferences would be considered on a case by case basis. Funding would be start-up only, as conferences are expected to be self-financing. The CC recommends that OOo teams should be encouraged to join forces with other open-source projects to share the costs and efforts involved in running conferences.
*NLCs should be encouraged to volunteer for a ‘Native Language Community of the Month’ spotlight in the OOo Newsletter - C-HS to organise.
*The CC discussed direct funding of new localisations e.g. at the request of a government. Past experience suggested these did not lead to sustainable versions. The success of the NLC within OOo was based round a team of activists providing a complete package of localisation, QA, training, support, etc.

===== ‘Greening’ OpenOffice.org =====

The CC discussed ways of minimising OOo’s carbon footprint. OOo’s infrastructure is mostly donated by third parties, which means the CC cannot make direct decisions about e.g. using only renewable electricity in datacentres. The CC agreed that OOoCon should be made more accessible for remote attendees as a priority, e.g. improved web streaming, dial-in access to sessions, mandatory advance submission of papers, etc. Support of remote attendees should be made a key deciding factor in awarding the 2011 OOoCon. The Marketing Project was also asked to consider options - e.g. should the MP be responsible for a web capability centrally every year rather than rely on local teams?

===== Extensions Repository =====

The Free Software Foundation (FSF) has notified the CC that the OOo Extensions Repository does not conform to FSF principles, as it hosts ‘non-free’ software. As a result, any software distributions wishing to conform to FSF standards should not make use of the OOo Repository. The CC agreed that licence information could be improved on the Repository, as this is an important factor people should consider when choosing extensions. The FSF would be welcomed to help in providing this sorting / filtering mechanism. However, the CC would not support a forking or partitioning of the Repository to exclude ‘non-free’ extensions. OOo respects the right of its users to make their own informed choice of software, and believes this is best achieved by a single Repository offering a full selection of extensions.

===== Community Council Effectiveness =====

CC members used the opportunity of this face to face meeting to brainstorm high and low points of 2009, and consider community goals for 2010/2011. An offline presentation by CN highlighted the lack of a consistent trail from the overall OOo mission statement down to project or release goals.

The CC discussed issues with its current processes:

*CC members over-committing to Action Items, which they then fail to deliver
*the quality of the minutes, which makes it hard for community members to understand what the CC is doing
*the amount of time taken up on IRC presenting status reports, which could be more efficiently done in advance

The CC also needs to improve its communication with the Community. The CC agreed to experiment with starting meetings with a public session. The Minutes should be prepared in a form that anyone can understand without having to work through IRC logs. It should also be possible to copy and paste from the Minutes into the monthly OOo Newsletter to give a ‘This Month in the Community Council’ article.

CN (the current facilitator) agreed to work on a new meeting template including these improvements. JPMcC agreed to write up the minutes for this meeting.

===== 2010 Budget =====

MHe reported that the current level of monthly donations was sufficient to support the proposed budget. The majority of these donations came from small contributions via PayPal. The CC agreed to adopt the draft budget for 2010 but review it quarterly to see if the allocation between different headings should be amended. MHe agreed to publish a summary of ‘actual vs budget’ quarterly on the wiki. JPMcC agreed to refresh the budget wiki pages for 2010. All projects should be encouraged to put forward proposals for using all the available funding.

==== Action Items ====

{| class="prettytable"
|-
! No
! Action
! Who
! When
! Status
|-
| 
| Prepare wiki page for ‘Events’
| LS-P
| 
| ongoing
|-
| 
| Hold CC Elections (Martin, Pavel, John)
| LS-P
| 
| transferred to CN with help from JMcC
|-
| 
| Refresh Incubator and NLC Project processes
| LS-P
| 
| 
|-
| 
| Publicise the open slot at the start of the CC meetings
| LS-P
| 
| 
|-
| 402.1
| Work with Clayton on estimates for ''Developing developers'' documentation
| JS
| 
| 
|-
| 402.2
| Talk to Google about 2010 SoC
| JPMcC
| 
| 
|-
| 402.3
| Talk to Education Project Leads about structure and remit
| CNou
| 
| 
|-
| 402.4
| Talk to NLC about ‘NLC of the Month’ for OOo Newsletter
| C-HS
| 
| 
|-
| 402.5
| Talk to Marketing Project about OOoCon support for remote attendees
| JPMcC
| 
| 
|-
| 402.6
| Reply to FSF Extensions Repository
| LS-P
| 
| 
|-
| 402.7
| New template for CC meetings
| CN
| 
| 
|-
| 402.8
| Refresh Budget Pages on the Wiki with input from MHe
| JPMcC
| 
| 
|}

 

== 2010-01-21 ==
=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20100121]]

=== AIs ===

# Budget '''Louis: prepare a wiki page with events'''.
# Trademark Policy ''ST to take back to trademark list''
# Elections: first cycle is finished. Next steps:
## ''Jürgen: Update council webpage'': (done)
## ''Louis: Notification to broader community about results'' (done)
## '''Louis: Initiate phase 2 of the new election for Martin, Pavel, John.''': put on hold until after holidays, viz., post 6 jan
## '''Louis: advertise public part at #ooocouncilpub in the beginning before next council meeting''': Louis suggest we do it for next meeting.
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## '''Martin to put together a proposal for hiring a technical writer to document getting started on OOo development.''': open
## '''AI: "Winter of Code"; Cor to own and cry for help if required.'''; list to be used is mentoring @ ooo: open
# Distribution infrastructure (Bouncer); '''John''': We are on target to use mirrorbrain for 3.2; Louis proposed '''AI: that the CC publicly thanks the volunteer mirrors on the release of 3.2 for 9 plus years of heroic work including and esp. osuosl.'''
# l10n infrastructure (Pootle): ''ST: Pootle version upgrade imminent beginnig 2010''; ''AI: Owner?: find better tool that is a closer fit, if necessary''; '''Cor is going to contact Andre.'''
# Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC. '''Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list - carry forward'''; see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2101] to be inforporated in http://native-lang.openoffice.org/#terminus and http://www.openoffice.org/about_us/protocols_proposing.html
# Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects. '''Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting - carry forward'''
# Budget 2010: ''AI: all budget holders to submit their requests for a share of this 100k''. See proposal from Matthias [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2324]; '''Vote on Matthias' Proposal pending'''
# Council coordinator: '''choosing ST's successor''' (for the period from February 2010 - May 2010). (done)
# '''Juergen: Prepare Agenda for F2F Meeting in Hamburg, February 4/5;'''
# Ja added: How to handle impolite remarks in IssueTracker issues ? See issue 107456. Corresponding user ignores changes made to the issue he wrote. (done)

== 2009-12-17 ==

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20091217]]

=== AIs ===

# Budget '''Louis: prepare a wiki page with events'''.
# Trademark Policy ''ST to take back to trademark list'': ST indicates he'll start Friday discussions again; AI ''ST: add new CC members to list'': done.
# Elections: first cycle is finished. Next steps:
## ''Jürgen: Update council webpage'': done
## ''Louis: Notification to broader community about results'' (done)
## '''Louis: Initiate phase 2 of the new election for Martin, Pavel, John.''': put on hold until after holidays, viz., post 6 jan
## '''Louis: advertise public part at #ooocouncilpub in the beginning before next council meeting''': Louis suggest we do it for next meeting.
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## '''Martin to put together a proposal for hiring a technical writer to document getting started on OOo development.''': open
## '''AI: "Winter of Code"; Cor to own and cry for help if required.'''; list to be used is mentoring @ ooo: open
# Distribution infrastructure (Bouncer); '''John''': We are on target to use mirrorbrain for 3.2; Louis proposed '''AI: that the CC publicly thanks the volunteer mirrors on the release of 3.2 for 9 plus years of heroic work including and esp. osuosl.'''
# l10n infrastructure (Pootle): ''ST: Pootle version upgrade imminent beginnig 2010''; ''AI: Owner?: find better tool that is a closer fit, if necessary''; '''Cor is going to contact Andre.'''
# Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC. '''Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list - carry forward'''; see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2101] to be inforporated in http://native-lang.openoffice.org/#terminus and http://www.openoffice.org/about_us/protocols_proposing.html
# Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects. '''Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting - carry forward'''
# Budget 2010: ''AI: all budget holders to submit their requests for a share of this 100k''. See proposal from Matthias [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2324]; '''Vote on Matthias Proposal pending'''
# Council coordinator: choosing ST's successor (for the period from February 2010 - May 2010).
# '''Juergen: Prepare Agenda for F2F Meeting in Hamburg, February 4/5;'''
# Education Project to be discussed during f2f
# Move of Infrastucture to be presented during f2f

== 2009-11-26 ==

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20091126]]

=== AIs ===

# Budget ''Louis: will send list of events to plan the marketing budget shortly'': A provisional list was sent to list. New AI is '''Louis: prepare a wiki page with events'''.
# Trademark Policy ''ST to take back to trademark list'': no update; new AI ''ST: add new CC members to list''
# Elections: first cycle is finished. Next steps:
## ''Jürgen: Update council webpage''
## ''Louis: Notification to broader community about results'' (done)
## ''Louis: Initiate phase 2 of the new election''' for Martin, Pavel, John.''
## ''Louis: advertise public part at #ooocouncilpub in the beginning before next council meeting''
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## ''Martin to put together a proposal for hiring a technical writer to document getting started on OOo development.''
## ''AI: "Winter of Code"; Cor to own and cry for help if required.''; list to be used is mentoring @ ooo
# Distribution infrastructure (Bouncer); Wait for results of testing (prepared by Florian) - MirrorBrain looks like a good replacement for Bouncer but MI needs sorting. ''AI: John to talk to Florian to see if we should hire someone to develop the MI''
# l10n infrastructure (Pootle): ''ST: Pootle version upgrade imminent beginnig 2010''; ''AI: Owner?: find better tool that is a closer fit, if necessary''
# Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC. ''Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list - carry forward''
# Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects. ''Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting - carry forward''
# Budget 2010: ''AI: all budget holders to submit their requests for a share of this 100k''. See proposal from Matthias [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2324]
# Council coordinator: choosing ST's successor (for the period from February 2010 - May 2010).

The last meeting was tabled after the item "Internship".

== 2009-11-03 (F2f in Orvieto) ==

The meeting ran through the AIs from the previous meeting as follows:

# Action Items from previous meeting (text of AI ''in italics'')
## Budget ''Louis: will send list of events to plan the marketing budget shortly'' - complete
## Trademark ''LSP (and ST) to provide to CC members offlist the proposal for voting then with comments on list: review by the cc (by November 4) and then start discussion on discuss@'' - Proposals had been put to Sun and Debian trademark folks. US trademark law requires trademark owners to quality control and monitor usage of trademarks. Agreement with Debian looks possible on name usage, but not on logo (about box and splash screen). Usage of name would be restricted to binaries built from the community repository (with patches). Need to come up with a proposal which allows free usage for "Download OOo" buttons and 'click through' mechanism to approve use on CD cases etc. Note that changing the logo (OOoCon session) would require registering a new trademark. Need also to consider the case of current practice within the community - e.g. annual OOoCon logos, "Cento Milioni" logo, etc. '''New AI: ST to take back to trademark list'''
## Elections ''Louis announce elections October 9 or 10 / aim: elections finished before the OOoCon'' - underway
## Internship ''Cor (et all): Continue on the preparations / Try to have more clear in 3rd week of October (big Education event in Toronto) / Louis and Matthias: working on suport (where neccesary) from project leads / Louis: contacting Seneca to organise support for them / Louis: to send to contests@marketing update on Seneca College, China (Tsinghua) and others for internship and mentoring'' - Louis to meet Seneca. Agreed that training in core OOo development is too high a barrier for first degree students - should look instead at extensions etc. Japanese IPA group want to send a developer to Hamburg to learn how to code a fix to a local font problem. Resource constraints in Sun mean there is no-one currently available. If Community funded a backfill could that release a core developer? Stefan recommends marketing activity should be directed at attracting extension developers rather than core. '''AI: Martin to put together a proposal for hiring a technical writer to document getting started on OOo development'''. Agreed to continue with "Winter of Code" - '''AI: Cor to own and cry for help if required'''.
## Distribution infrastructure (Bouncer) ''Wait for results of testing (prepared by Florian)'' - MirrorBrain looks like a good replacement for Bouncer but MI needs sorting. '''AI: John to talk to Florian to see if we should hire someone to develop the MI'''
## l10n infrastructure (Pootle) ''Wait for nagios a.o. monitoring results'' - availability of 85% is not acceptable. Hamburg now responsible. Pootle version upgrade imminent, but questions raised over long term viability of Pootle. To address issues, agreed: do a version upgrade; if necessary 'throw hardware at it' '''AI: Stefan'''; find better tool that is a closer fit (Launchpad? - or possibly a new project starting off to create a new Pootle?).
## Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC ''Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list'' - carry forward
## Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects ''Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting'' - carry forward
## Meeting at OOoCon 2009 - complete
## OOoCon 2009 ''Schedule a CC Q&A'' - complete
## Budget 2010 ''Start budgeting (planning spending money) for the next year before the OOoCon by mail'' - Annual Euro 100,000 budget should be sustainable based on current levels of income from inidivual contributions. '''AI: all budget holders to submit their requests for a share of this 100k'''.

== 2009-10-22 ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===
# List of decisions and AI's of [[Community_Council/Minutes#Minutes_of_Meetings | previous meeting]] for approval
# Action items - from previous meeting(s)
## Budget
### Louis: continue on list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals (for marketing budget primirarly)
## Trademark
### Stefan et al: in process with progess among stakeholders
### then with comments on list: review by the cc (by November 4) and then start discussion on discuss@
## Elections
### Louis announce elections October 9 or 10
### aim: elections finished before the OOoCon
## OpenOffice.org Internship
### Cor (et all): Continue on the preparations,
### Try to have more clear in 3rd week of October (big Education event in Toronto)
### Louis and Matthias: working on suport (where neccesary) from project leads
### Louis: contacting Seneca to organise support for them
### Louis: to send to contests@marketing update on Seneca College, China (Tsinghua) and others for internship and mentoring
## Distribution infrastructure
### Wait for results of testing (pepared by Florian)
## l10n infrastructure
### Wait for nagios a.o. monitoring results
## Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
### Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
## Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
### Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting
## Meeting at OOoCon 2009
### compile an agenda on the mail list and also advertise the meeting date and agenda options to project leads
### extended meeting on Tuesday evening
## OOoCon 2009
### Schedule a CC Q&A
## Budget 2010
### Start budgeting (planning spending money) for the next year before the OOoCon by mail
# Council coordinator
## Start for Stefan in this position
## choosing his successor (for the period from February 2010 - May 2010).
# ..

=== Decisions made ===
(specific topics that do not return in the AI's)
# Elections CC: late nominees have to wait for the next elections, that will come really soon after current elections

=== Ideas to keep in mind for nearby future ===
# CC meeting at OOoCon
## f2f meeting with the major sponsors at OOoCon to discuss about the project status
## or presentation off cc to major stakeholders
# Communicating and deciding in the CC
## Do we need a reply on a proposal/question from each member, or do we say: no reply is OK/agree?
# make "parnership" a new agenda item (spin off from work on certification)

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20091022]]

=== AI's ===
# Budget
## Louis: will send list of events to plan the marketing budget shortly.
# Trademark
## LSP (and ST) to provide to CC members offlist the proposal for voting
## then with comments on list: review by the cc (by November 4) and then start discussion on discuss@
# Elections
## elections proceed as scheduled
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## Cor (et all): Continue on the preparations,
## Try to have more clear in 3rd week of October (big Education event in Toronto)
## Louis and Matthias: working on suport (where neccesary) from project leads
## Cor will explain why that was necessary
## Louis: contacting Seneca to organise support for them
## Louis: to send to contests@marketing update on Seneca College, China (Tsinghua) and others for internship and mentoring
# Distribution infrastructure
## Wait for results of testing (pepared by Florian)
# l10n infrastructure
## Wait for nagios a.o. monitoring results
# Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
## Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
# Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
## Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting
# Meetings at OOoCon 2009
## compile an agenda on the mail list and also advertise the meeting date and agenda (Tuesday afternoon) options to project leads
## extended council meeting for on Tuesday evening
## Q&A with the council on ..
# Budget 2010
## MHU: Send first proposal for budget before the OOoCon by mail

== 2009-10-08 ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===

# List of decisions and AI's of [[Community_Council/Minutes#Minutes_of_Meetings | previous meeting]] for approval
# Action items - from previous meeting(s)
## Budget
### Louis: working on list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals (for marketing budget primarily)
## Trademark
### Stefan et al: in process with progess among stakeholders
### then with comments on list: review by the cc (sometime early September) and then start discussion on discuss@
## Elections
### Louis and Matthias work on the elections
### aim: elections conceived for early September
## OpenOffice.org Internship
### Cor (et all): Continue on the preparations
### Louis and Matthias: working on suport (where neccesary) from project leads
### Louis: contacting Seneca to organise support for them
### Louis: to send to contests@marketing update on Seneca College, China (Tsinghua) and others for internship and mentoring
## L10n infrastructure
### Wait for results of testing (pepared by Florian)
## OpenOffice.org Certification
### Cor: close voting this week, so ping Pavel and his deputy
### while discussing, work on building stones for other (requests for) partnerships
## Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
### Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
## Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
### Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting
# Council Meeting at the OOoCon
## Our agenda
# OOoCon 2009
## Update
# Budget 2009
## Idea/request for Dev-budget
## l10n infrastructure - see mail Stefan
## Issue with taxes from past years cleared up?
# Budget 2010
## Start planning spending money for the next year asap.
# Council coordinator
## On 2009-05-28 we dicided to vote for a council coordinator in 4 months, for the time from February 2010 - May 2010.
## And for Stefan to be in from October 2009 - January 2010 (provided his boss agrees)
# ...

=== Decisions made ===
(specific topics that do not return in the AI's)

=== Ideas to keep in mind for nearby future ===
# CC meeting at OOoCon
## f2f meeting with the major sponsors at OOoCon to discuss about the project status
## or presentation off cc to major stakeholders
# Communicating and deciding in the CC
## Do we need a reply on a proposal/question from each member, or do we say: no reply is OK/agree?
# make "parnership" a new agenda item (spin off from work on certification)

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20091008]]

=== AI's ===
# Budget
## Louis: continue on list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals (for marketing budget primarily)
# Trademark
## Stefan et al: in process with progess among stakeholders
## then with comments on list: review by the cc (by November 4) and then start discussion on discuss@
# Elections
## Louis announce elections October 9 or 10
## aim: elections finished before the OOoCon
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## Cor (et all): Continue on the preparations,
## Try to have more clear in 3rd week of October (big Education event in Toronto)
## Louis and Matthias: working on suport (where neccesary) from project leads
## Louis: contacting Seneca to organise support for them
## Louis: to send to contests@marketing update on Seneca College, China (Tsinghua) and others for internship and mentoring
# Distribution infrastructure
## Wait for results of testing (pepared by Florian)
# l10n infrastructure
## Wait for nagios a.o. monitoring results
# Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
## Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
# Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
## Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting
# Meeting at OOoCon 2009
## compile an agenda on the mail list and also advertise the meeting date and agenda options to project leads
## extended meeting on Tuesday evening
# OOoCon 2009
## Schedule a CC Q&A
# Budget 2010
## Start budgeting (planning spending money) for the next year before the OOoCon by mail

== 2009-09-24 ==

Was not really a meeting.
Agenda of that meeting shifted to the next meeting.

== 2009-08-20 ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===

# List of decisions and AI's of [[Community_Council/Minutes#Minutes_of_Meetings | previous meeting]] for approval
# Action items - from previous meeting(s)
## Budget
### Louis: use marcon list and post to wiki list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals
## Trademark
### Stefan et all: discuss with Debian (09-07-10) and give feed back
### then with comments on list: review by the cc , and then start discussion on discuss@
## Elections
### Thalion72 (and mhu is going to help) to send to louis (and jpmcc) proposal for elections announcement for editing, writing, etc. (around May 30)
### Louis: ping André ..
## OpenOffice.org Internship
### Cor (et all): Start of the public process (announcement etc.) asap
### Louis: to send to contests@marketing update on Seneca College, China (Tsinghua) and others for internship and mentoring
## L10n infrastructure
### André: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839 , and discuss with Florian
### (See remarks in the log from cloph)
### Louis: ping André ..
## OpenOffice.org Certification
### all: continue discussion with Alexandro and Evan via mail list
### goal is to come to decission asap
### while discussing, work on building stones for other (requests for) partnerships
## Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
### Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
## Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
### Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting
## Schedule for next meetings
### Cor: continue on this via mail
# OOoCon 2009
## Update
# Budget
## Idea/request for Dev-budget
## l10n infrastructure - see mail Stefan
## Issue with taxes from past years cleared up?
# ...

=== Decisions made ===

=== Ideas to keep in mind for nearby future ===
# CC meeting at OOoCon
## f2f meeting with the major sponsors at OOoCon to discuss about the project status
## or presentation off cc to major stakeholders
# Communicating and deciding in the CC
## Do we need a reply on a proposal/question from each member, or do we say: no reply is OK/agree?

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20090820]]

=== AI's ===
# Budget
## Louis: working on list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals (for marketing budget primirarly)
# Trademark
## Stefan et al: in process with progess among stakeholders
## then with comments on list: review by the cc (sometime early September) and then start discussion on discuss@
# Elections
## Louis and Matthias work on the elections
## aim: elections conceived for early September
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## Cor (et all): Continue on the preparations
## Louis and Matthias: working on suport (where neccesary) from project leads
## Louis: contacting Seneca to organise support for them
## Louis: to send to contests@marketing update on Seneca College, China (Tsinghua) and others for internship and mentoring
# L10n infrastructure
## Wait for results of testing (pepared by Florian)
# OpenOffice.org Certification
## Cor: close voting this week, so ping Pavel and his deputy
## while discussing, work on building stones for other (requests for) partnerships
# Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
## Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
# Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
## Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting

== 2009-07-09 ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===

# List of decisions and AI's of [[Community_Council/Minutes#Minutes_of_Meetings | previous meeting ]] for approval
# Action items - from previous meeting(s)
## Budget
### Louis: use marcon list and post to wiki list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals
## Trademark
### Stefan: discuss the item with Debian and give feed back
### then with comments on list: review by the cc , and then start discussion on discuss@
### update
## Elections
### Thalion72 (and mhu is goning to help) to send to louis (and jpmcc) proposal for elections announcement for editing, writing, etc. (around May 30)
### update
## OpenOffice.org Internship
### Cor (et all): Start of the public process (announcement etc.) asap
### update
## L10n infrastructure
### André: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839 , and discuss with Florian
### (See remarks in the log from cloph)
## OpenOffice.org Certification
### all: continue discussion via mail wthin next day's
### goal is to come to decission asap
### update
## Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
### Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
## Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
### Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting
## Schedule for next meetings
### Cor: continue on this via mail
# OOoCon 2009
## Update
## Any special preparations AFA-the CC-IC ?

=== Decisions made ===

=== Ideas to keep in mind for nearby future ===
# CC meeting at OOoCon
## f2f meeting with the major sponsors at OOoCon to discuss about the project status
## or presentation off cc to major stakeholders
# Communicating and deciding in the CC
## Do we need a reply on a proposal/question from each member, or do we say: no reply is OK/agree?

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20090709]]

=== AI's ===
# Budget
## Louis: use marcon list and post to wiki list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals
# Trademark
## Stefan et all: discuss with Debian (09-07-10) and give feed back
## then with comments on list: review by the cc , and then start discussion on discuss@
# Elections
## Thalion72 (and mhu is goning to help) to send to louis (and jpmcc) proposal for elections announcement for editing, writing, etc. (around May 30)
## Louis: ping André ..
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## Cor (et all): Start of the public process (announcement etc.) asap
## Louis: to send to contests@marketing update on Seneca College, China (Tsinghua) and others for internship and mentoring
# L10n infrastructure
## André: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839 , and discuss with Florian
## (See remarks in the log from cloph)
## Louis: ping André ..
# OpenOffice.org Certification
## all: continue discussion with Alexandro and Evan via mail list
## goal is to come to decission asap
## while discussing, work on building stones for other (requests for) partnerships
# Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
## Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
# Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
## Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting
# Schedule for next meetings
## Cor: continue on this via mail

== 2009-06-25 ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===

# List of decisions and AI's of [[Community_Council/Minutes#Minutes_of_Meetings | previous meeting ]] for approval
# Action items - from previous meeting(s)
## Budget
### Louis: use marcon list and post to wiki list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals
## Trademark
### Stefan: gather feedback from Sun legal people, tries within one week, but asks for ETA first
### Cor: Ask Bernard for editing and Alex for his legal opinion
### then one week for review by the cc , and then start discussion on discuss@
## Elections
### Thalion72 to send to louis (and jpmcc) proposal for elections announcement for editing, writing, etc. (around May 30)
## OpenOffice.org Internship
### Cor (et all): Start of the public process (announcement etc.) in week 25
### Update
## L10n infrastructure
### André: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839 , and discuss with Florian
## Project improvement page
### André: try to help discussion on project leads list
## OpenOffice.org Certification
### Cor: continue discussion via mail shortly
### Update
## Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
### Cor: ask Louis for final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
## Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
### Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting
## Schedule for next meetings
### Cor: pick this up via mail
# Future with oracle, do we have ideas/whishes ..
## See this [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2125 mail]
# ...

=== Decisions made ===
# continue with OOo Internship, although it might be late for some countries / possible participants

=== Ideas to keep in mind for nearby future ===
# CC meeting at OOoCon
## f2f meeting with the major sponsors at OOoCon to discuss about the project status
## or presentation off cc to major stakeholders
# Communicating and deciding in the CC
## Do we need a reply on a proposal/question from each member, or do we say: no reply is OK/agree?

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20090625]]

=== AI's ===

# Budget
## Louis: use marcon list and post to wiki list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals
# Trademark
## Stefan: discuss the item with Debian and give feed back
## then with comments on list: review by the cc , and then start discussion on discuss@
# Elections
## Thalion72 (and mhu is goning to help) to send to louis (and jpmcc) proposal for elections announcement for editing, writing, etc. (around May 30)
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## Cor (et all): Start of the public process (announcement etc.) asap
# L10n infrastructure
## André: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839 , and discuss with Florian
## (See remarks in the log from cloph)
# OpenOffice.org Certification
## all: continue discussion via mail wthin next day's
## goal is to come to decission asap
# Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
## Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
# Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
## Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting
# Schedule for next meetings
## Cor: continue on this via mail

== 2009-06-11 ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===

# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Action items - from previous meeting(s)
## Budget
### Louis: use marcon list and post to wiki list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals
## Trademark
### discussion to continue on dicsuss@ after June 11th
## Elections
### Thalion72 to send to louis (and jpmcc) proposal for elections announcement for editing, writing, etc. (around May 30)
### Update
## OpenOffice.org Internship
### Stefan to suggest the budget for the internship program as suggested by the proposal
### Update
## L10n infrastructure
### Stefan, André, Cor: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839
## Project improvement page
### Cor: ping Louis to mail project leads
## OpenOffice.org Certification
### Louis: to sent the old plan just as reminder what we had already done
### Cor: ask Alexandro and Evan for materials, a business plan, and ask if some financial support can help with that
### Update
## Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
### louis_to, stx12, Thalion72: with louis_to to come up with initial draft, stx12 with steps for retirement/removal/ and Thalion72 to reivew and edit as needed
# Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
## formalise the practise to delegate confirmation of Incubator project to project_leads@ and for native language projects to leads of NLC.
# Schedule for next meetings
## Only one more appointment left: June 26
## Shall we add another month, or is July too much occupied by vacations ?

=== Decisions made ===

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20090611]]

=== AI's ===

# Budget
## Louis: use marcon list and post to wiki list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals
# Trademark
## Stefan: gather feedback from Sun legal people, tries within one week, but asks for ETA first
## Cor: Ask Bernard for editing and Alex for his legal opinion
## then one week for review by the cc , and then start discussion on discuss@
# Elections
## Thalion72 to send to louis (and jpmcc) proposal for elections announcement for editing, writing, etc. (around May 30)
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## Cor (et all): Start of the public process (announcement etc.) in week 25
# L10n infrastructure
## André: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839 , and discuss with Florian
# Project improvement page
## André: try to help discussion on project leads list
# OpenOffice.org Certification
## Cor: continue discussion via mail shortly
# Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
## Cor: ask Louis for final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
# Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
## Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting
# Schedule for next meetings
## Cor: pick this up via mail

== 2009-05-28 ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===

# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Action items - from previous meeting(s)
## Budget
### Matthias, André and Cor agreed on a meeting regarding budget issues for next monday.
### Louis: again ping, to get estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
## Trademark
### Update after the renewed discussion on tm@ooo
## Elections
### ...
## OpenOffice.org Internship
### Update
## L10n infrastructure
### Stefan, André, Cor: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839
## Project improvement page
### Cor: add some content, then ping Louis to mail project leads
## proposal council coordinator
### Cor: ask votes of members not present at the meeting
# OpenOffice.org Certification
## Review [[Education/Certification/Petition| the petition]] for endorsement.
# Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
## formalise the practise to delegate confirmation of Incubator project to project_leads@ and for native language projects to leads of NLC.

=== Minutes ===
TBD

=== Decisions made ===
# Trademark
## cc decides in two weeks on the trademark proposal, then discussion brought to dicsuss@
# council coordinator
## [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2090 proposal] approved: Cor is the first one in this role, then Stefan, and after 4 months we already vote for the third period.
# Budget
## Waiting for outcome of taxes, then more clear budgetting
(see log)

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20090528]]

=== AI's ===

# Budget
## Louis: use marcon list and post to wiki list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals
# Trademark
## discussion to continue on dicsuss@ after June 11th
# Elections
## Thalion72 to send to louis (and jpmcc) proposal for elections announcement for editing, writing, etc. (around May 30)
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## Stefan to suggest the budget for the internship program as suggested by the proposal
# L10n infrastructure
## Stefan, André, Cor: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839
# Project improvement page
## Cor: ping Louis to mail project leads
# OpenOffice.org Certification
## Louis: to sent the old plan just as reminder what we had already done
## Cor: ask Alexandro and Evan for materials, a business plan (suggested content in log) and ask if some financial support can help with that.
# Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
## louis_to, stx12, Thalion72: with louis_to to come up with initial draft, stx12 with steps for retirement/removal/ and Thalion72 to reivew and edit as needed

== 2009-05-14 ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===

# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Action items
## Budget
### Louis: schedule a conference call with CC members regarding budget issues
### Matthias: more clear on situation wrt taxes to pay?
### Louis: Send and gather estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
## Trademark policy
### Do we know by now why we need/want it
## Elections
### in preparation - see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/BrowseList?list=discuss&by=thread&from=2228762 mailing list]
### status of [[Community_Council/Items/Election_Process_Proposal]]
### approve removal of utilities project
### approve removal of odftoolkit project
## L10n infrastructure
### More news from discussion?
## Project improvement page
### Cor add some content, then ping Louis to mail project leads
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## (should be starting soon)
# Proposal for role of council coordinator
## ( see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/BrowseList?list=discuss&by=thread&from=2222504 mail list] )
## ...

=== Minutes ===
TBD

=== Decisions made ===

# the accepted project utilities has been merged into framework, and thus no longer a separate accepted project
# odftoolkit, now a separate project outside OOo, and thus no longer a separate incubator projects
# Community_Council/Items/Election_Process_Proposal accepted as final

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20090514]]

=== AI's ===
# Budget
## Matthias, André and Cor agreed on a meeting regarding budget issues for next monday.
## Louis: again ping, to get estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
# Trademark
## Update after the renewed discussion on tm@ooo
# Elections
## ...
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## Update
# L10n infrastructure
## Stefan, André, Cor: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839
# Project improvement page
## Cor: add some content, then ping Louis to mail project leads
# proposal council coordinator
## Cor: ask votes of members not present at the meeting

== 2009-04-30 ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===
# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Action items
## Budget
### Louis: schedule a conference call with CC members for next week regarding budget issues
### Matthias: money on account and estimates for incomes and taxes to pay
### Louis: Send estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
## SPI - update
## Trademark
### Update
## Louis, André: elections draft announcement + schedule
## L10n infrastructure
## Cor: project improvement page: further clarification
## All: project improvement page: input for content and links
## ..
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## Discussion started on contests@marketing.openoffice.org
## last time, marketing was the weekest point
## idea is that funding comes from marketing and development budget
## any suggestions / whishes from the cc at this moment
# Proposal for role of council coordinator
## see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2000 mail list]
## discussion
## to go or not to go
# Growing the project
## ...
# Guidelines for bundling extensions
:: [http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=100836 issue 100836] requests the removal of the writer2latex extension from OOo 3.1 (raised as showstopper)
:: reason was given in [http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=100744 issue 100744] as "According to our guidelines for bundling extensions we cannot bundle extensions which are not covered by the guidelines to contribute (meaning SCA)."
:: Question to the council: where are those guidelines, who approved these guidelines at what time?

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20090430]]

=== AI's ===

# Budget
## Louis: schedule a conference call with CC members regarding budget issues
## Matthias: more clear on situation wrt taxes to pay?
## Louis: Send and gather estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
# Trademark policy
## Do we know by now why we need/want it
# Elections
## Running ?
# L10n infrastructure
## More news from discussion?
# Project improvement page
## Cor add some content, then ping Louis to mail project leads

=== Notes ===
Important info / discussion, not coming back as AI for the nextmeeting

* SPI; info about procedures / position / possibility to improve (when we want to invest time)

=== Minutes ===

TBD

== 2009-04-09==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===
# L10n builds distribution over the network, see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?listName=discuss&msgNo=1986 Rafaella mail]
## what can we do to support
## ..
# Growing the project
## see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1999 mail list]
## discussion
## to go or not to go
# Proposal for role of council coordinator
## see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2000 mail list]
## discussion
## to go or not to go
# Guidelines for bundling extensions
:: [http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=100836 issue 100836] requests the removal of the writer2latex extension from OOo 3.1 (raised as showstopper)
:: reason was given in [http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=100744 issue 100744] as "According to our guidelines for bundling extensions we cannot bundle extensions which are not covered by the guidelines to contribute (meaning SCA)."
:: Question to the council: where are those guidelines, who approved these guidelines at what time?
# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Action items
## Budget
### Louis: schedule a conference call with CC members for next week regarding budget issues
### Matthias: money on account and estimates for incomes and taxes to pay
### Louis: Send estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
## SPI - update
## Trademark
### Louis to review with André and John trademark proposals; also to revisit the list (done)
### Update
## Louis, André: elections draft announcement + schedule
## Cor to send to CC list proposals on CC function, structure and community growth (both done)

=== log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20090409]]

=== AI's ===
# Budget
## Louis: schedule a conference call with CC members for next week regarding budget issues
## Matthias: money on account and estimates for incomes and taxes to pay
## Louis: Send estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
# SPI - update
# Trademark
## Update
# Louis, André: elections draft announcement + schedule
# L10n infrastructure
# Cor: further discussion on proposal council coordinator via mail
# Cor: project improvement page: further clarification
# All: project improvement page: input for content and links

=== Minutes ===
TBD

== 2009-03-26==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===
# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Action items
## Elections ..
## New charter - done
## Budget precedures - done
## SPI
### mails to CC list ..
### info on donations page - done
## Trademark
## Growing the project
### info on wiki
### further ideas / discussion
# (2009) Budget
## Is it possible to work with yearly spending / income sheets etc. (see irc log)
# Proposal for role of council co-ordinator
## appoint a council coordinator every 4 to 5 months, who is responsible during that time for poking the colleagues ;-) etc.
### will improve overall cc-performance
### will help to share the feeling of really being part of it, of joined responsibility
# L10n builds distribution over the network, see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?listName=discuss&msgNo=1986 Rafaella mail]

=== log ===
* [[Community Council Log 20090326]]

=== AI's ===
Action items
# Budget
## Louis: schedule a conference call with CC members for next week regarding budget issues
## Matthias: money on account and estimates for incomes and taxes to pay
## Louis: Send estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
# SPI - update
# Trademark
## Louis to review with André and John trademark proposals; also to revisit the list (done)
## Update
# Louis, André: elections draft announcement + schedule
# Cor to send to CC list proposals on CC function, structure and community growth (both done)

=== Minutes ===
* Minutes TBD

== 2009-03-12 [[Community Council Notes 20090312]] ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===
# Minutes of previous meeting for approval and action items
# 2008 Financial Statement
# 2009 Budget
# Proposal for role of Community Co-ordinator (Cor)
# Update on Trademarks (Sophie)

=== Attendees ===
* Sophie Gautier (sophi)
* Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
* John McCreesh (jpmcc)
* Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
* André Schnabel (Thalion72)
* Stefan Taxhet (stx12)

** absent: Pavel Janik (paveljanik)
** absent: Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_)

=== Minutes ===
====New and Familiar Action Items====
* Elections: to commence this week with candidate nominations (Louis and Sophie).
*Announcements related to new charter and elections:
1. For new charter (André and John, ''completed'')
2. for nominations and election news, 3 days after the first announcement
* Trademark update (In lawyer's hands; update: Sophie, John, Louis): "in progress"
* Budget procedures clarification (John and probably others): ''in progress''
* LSP: Louis to re-send to CC list original emails related to SPI

===Summary/Minutes===
* Prior minutes were approved

===Old Action Items and actions and summary of discussion===
* André: review plebiscite on Community Council Proposal, ask the council to formally accept the proposal and publish as new version of the charter - complete - on agenda -''completed''
* John: make budget procedures more visible - ''completed''
* Sophie: prepare a short note about trademark proposal for the next meeting - complete -'' on agenda''
* Sophie: resend mail on SPI to the council list for comments - on agenda
* Louis / Matthias: get treasurers of Team OOo e.V. and SPI in contact - Action: Matthias to ping Louis for contact details - ''completed''
* Charter change (André) see email - Agreed Proposal formally accepted by Council, updated on Web, ''completed''.
Trademark (Sophie) draft_0.6 is ready, waiting comments from Marketing - Action: under legal review, ''continuing''
* Budget (Cor) we intended to decide on the budget for 2009. Is info available? Martin said this was scheduled for March.
* Budget (Cor) Proposal for clear routing of funding request: see email. Agreed. Action - Cor --''completed''
* Budget (Cor) Proposal to ask the l10n-team at Sun, if new hardware is badly needed see mail. Action Stefan to see if we can improve quality of service by spending CC budget on infrastructure: ''completed'':
** ST spoke with Rafallea Branconi and she "feels comfortable with the current setup with 2 pootle servers.'we will monitor these more closely to see whether they are as reliable as we need it. Sophie argued that language partition is inefficient and that we should partition by region instead. ''Discussion to continue''
* Budget (Sophie) SPI Info needed see mail – Action: Louis/Sophie contacted SPI and Louis is sending MHU notifications of donations; link to SPI repository on donation page (http://contributing.openoffice.org/donate.html). L/S attended last Board meeting as observers and will participate more actively to run for office. (Why SPI? Because makes it easier for US residents to pay via cheque or credit card.)
* Growing the project (Cor) see mail Action Cor to put on the wiki- completed: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Project_Improvements : ''Discussions to be conducted on list'' '''Action remaining: Louis to re-send to CC list original emails'''.
* This year's GSoC (John) Action Stefan to see if we are likely to be accepted- ''discussed''
* Proposals for OOoCon and the Community consultation process (John). John stated that after discussions on the lists, the Marketing Project had decided to change the process to award OOoCon one year in advance. This would give teams more time to prepare and to allow them to learn from the previous team. This means this year the MP will be awarding OOoCon 09 and 10, then next year OOoCon 11, etc. As time was short, John agreed to continue this conversation on the CC list. Action John--''completed''

== 2009-02-19 (IRC) ==

===Attendees===
* Sophie Gautier (sophi)
* Pavel Janik (paveljanik)
* Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_)
* Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
* John McCreesh (jpmcc)
* Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
* André Schnabel (Thalion72)
* Stefan Taxhet (stx12)

* missing:
** Louis Suarez-Potts (absent)

===Minutes===
16:45 Meeting opened
# Minutes of previous meeting - approved
# Action items
## André: review plebiscite on Community Council Proposal, ask the council to formally accept the proposal and publish as new version of the charter - complete - ''on agenda''
## John: make budget procedures more visible - ''complete''
## Cor: draft a proposal for a more clear workflow - ''on agenda''
## Sophie: prepare a short note about trademark proposal for the next meeting - complete - ''on agenda''
## Sophie: resend mail on SPI to the council list for comments - ''on agenda''
## Louis / Matthias: get treasurers of Team OOo e.V. and SPI in contact - '''Action''': Matthias to ping Louis for contact details
# Charter change (André) [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1944 see email] - '''Agreed''' Proposal formally accepted by Council
# Trademark (Sophie) draft_0.6 is ready, waiting comments from Marketing - '''Action''': John to review
# Budget (Cor) we intended to decide on the budget for 2009. Is info available? Martin said this was scheduled for March.
# Budget (Cor) Proposal for clear routing of funding request: [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1923 see email]. '''Agreed'''. '''Action''' - Cor to add to wiki
# Budget (Cor) Proposal to ask the l10n-team at Sun, if new hardware is badly needed [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1843 see mail]. '''Action''' Stefan to see if we can improve quality of service by spending CC budget on infrastructure
# Budget (Sophie) SPI Info needed [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1854 see mail] - already discussed
# Growing the project (Cor) [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1946 see mail] '''Action''' Cor to put on the wiki
# This year's [http://code.google.com/opensource/gsoc/2009/faqs.html GSoC] (John) '''Action''' Stefan to see if we are likely to be accepted
# [http://marketing.openoffice.org/ooocon2009/cfl/index.html Proposals for OOoCon] and the Community consultation process (John). John stated that after discussions on the lists, the Marketing Project had decided to change the process to award OOoCon one year in advance. This would give teams more time to prepare and to allow them to learn from the previous team. This means this year the MP will be awarding OOoCon 09 and 10, then next year OOoCon 11, etc. As time was short, John agreed to continue this conversation on the CC list. '''Action''' John
# AOB - none
17:49 UTC Meeting closed

==2009-01-22 (IRC)==

===Attendees===
* Sophie Gautier (sophi)
* Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_)
* Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
* Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
* André Schnabel (Thalion72)
* Stefan Taxhet (stx12)

* missing:
** Louis Suarez-Potts (excused)
** Pavel Janik

===New Action Items===

* André: review plebiscite on Community Council Proposal, ask the council to formally accept the proposal and publish as new version of the charter

* John: make budget procedures more visible
* Cor: draft a proposal for a more clear workflow

* Sophie: prepare a short note about trademark proposal for the next meeting

* Sophie: resend mail on SPI to the council list for comments
* Louis / Matthias: get treasurers of Team OOo e.V. and SPI in contact

===Agenda===

# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Approval of provisional budgets for 2009
# Endorsement of "Developer's Manifesto 2009"
# AOB

===Minutes===

* budget holders can start with the same budgets as for 2008. Budgets for 2009 will be reviewed end of Feb. (after Team OOo e.V. finished finanzial review, budged holders are asked to prepare a more detailed budget plan, if possible)

* a "Developer's Manifesto 2009" will be published on the OOo website, as porposed on the [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1922 council mailing list]

* Other business
** the new Charter Proposal has passed all steps that are necessary to become final. The results of the plebiscite need to be reviewed and the proposal needs to be published at the council website as new version of the charter.
:: AI for André: review plebiscite, ask the council to formally accept the proposal and publish as new version of the charter

:* André suggested to move the budget and funding procedures to the council website. Proposal was rejected, as the procedure is likely to be reworked.
:: AI for John: make budget procedures more visible
:: AI for Cor: draft a proposal for a more clear workflow

:* CorNouws asked what the status of the trademark proposal is
:: AI for Sophie: prepare a short note about trademark proposal for the next meeting

:* Sophie asked for more information about SPI
:: AI for Sophie: resend mail on SPI to the council list for comments
:: AI for Louis / Matthias: get treasurers of Team OOo e.V. and SPI in contact

=== Log ===
[[Community Council Log 20092201]]

== OLDER MEETINGS ... 2008 and before ==
See the next page:
[[Community_Council/Minutes_2008_and_older]]

[[Category:Community Council]]

Community Council Log 20100304

2010-03-04T21:42:38Z

LouisSuarez: Created page with 'Date: 2010-03-04 Time: 19:30 UTC (incl. warming up) == Attendees == *Louis Suarez-Potts (oulipo_to) *Christian Lohmaier (cloph) deputy for Christoph Noack (christoph_n) *Marti…'

Date: 2010-03-04
Time: 19:30 UTC (incl. warming up)

== Attendees ==

*Louis Suarez-Potts (oulipo_to)
*Christian Lohmaier (cloph) deputy for Christoph Noack (christoph_n)
*Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_)
*Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
*Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
*Stefan Taxhet (stx12)
*Juergen Schmidt (jsc)
*Pavel Janík (paveljanik)
*Charles-H. Schulz (southerncross)

Absent: John McCreesh (jpmcc)

== Log ==
<pre>
oulipo_to shall we start?
southerncross welcome cloph
southerncross yes
stx12 fine with me
oulipo_to agenda is as posted: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Agenda
oulipo_to please review if you have not done so already
stx12 just a quick note; it seems branding is not on the agenda
oulipo_to hm, you are right
oulipo_to shall we add it at th eend
oulipo_to ?
oulipo_to I would favour that
oulipo_to meanwhile, do we agree with the minutes posted for 18 Feb meeting?
oulipo_to indicate only if you do not
stx12 that might be a bit late; the latest 5 minutes before our time runs out
oulipo_to hearing no nays, minutes to 18f Feb. meeting approved
*** louis_to has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
* stx12 hopes we are fast...
oulipo_to and given the importance of the branding I'd suggest we deal with it first.
oulipo_to Do all agree?
southerncross okay...
mhu yes
oulipo_to hearing no objections, we will deal with branding first
stx12 ok, then let me start with a look at the branding group
oulipo_to stx12: do you want to inform us
oulipo_to thx
CorNouws sorry, missed a part; I would like to start with the branding thing
oulipo_to :-)
stx12 CorNouws, yes we do
* CorNouws missed even more :-)
stx12 the branding group went through a period of discussions and experiments
stx12 where the constraints of the effort were not well defined
stx12 at different stages Sun/Oracle did not communicate clearly enough
stx12 what the expected outcome of a discussion or work could be
stx12 this led to disappointment that could have been avoided
stx12 we'll work together with people involved in this effort and
stx12 other areas to understand how they experienced it and
stx12 what lessons we all can learn
stx12 Cor will join me to drive this.
stx12 Cor?
CorNouws Yes, Thanks Stefan, I think that is a fair and somehow brave statement.
CorNouws (is brave correct here?) It will help us
CorNouws As was obvious for at least some of you, I was (and am) not so happy
CorNouws with the situation, also from community point of view.
CorNouws To find a way out, and make something positive out it, late this
CorNouws afternoon Stefan and I started to work on a plan
CorNouws to regain confidence and to really start learning and improving.
CorNouws We have an initial, rough, but also quite detailed draft, that we like to share with you soon to get feed back.
CorNouws and to start ...
southerncross a draft about what exactly?
CorNouws How we can find out what is to learn and how to use that experiences.
CorNouws Stefan?
southerncross ok
stx12 ... about the way to run something like a postmortem, establish best practices, ... better understand each other
southerncross that does sound really helpful, indeed
CorNouws It is obvious that despite good intentions, sometimes we fail hard. That is a pitty at least. Better try to avaid that in future.
stx12 but let's move from the branding group top the branding initiative
stx12 Back to topic of the brand refresh.
oulipo_to yes
stx12 all the above said I think to a certain extend it was worth the trials.
stx12 we came to the point where it was time to move forward with groundwork
stx12 for the next release and the branding initiative
stx12 and I think we see a huge improvement over the current state
stx12 I just introduced the logo and symbol to the community by pointing
stx12 to http://www.openoffice.org/trademark/brandrefresh.html
stx12 and the branding initiative will be the environment to work on the next tasks
stx12 i think the release team and the branding group will appreciate that they now can prepare the next steps
stx12 and yes, charles, feel free to blog ;-)
oulipo_to thanks, stefan
mhu yes, thanks stx12 and CorNouws
oulipo_to stx12, Cor: do you have a proposal that we shoudl act on here and now related to branding?
southerncross ok but then I have two questions here
southerncross 1) ar
southerncross 1) are these logos final, at least for the foreseeab:
southerncross foreseeable future?
southerncross 2)
southerncross where did the logo with the shadow go?
CorNouws oulipo_to: no, I have not
stx12 ad 1)
stx12 yes, the new logo will be introduced now gradually in different area
southerncross ok
stx12 but we need some guidelines about the usage
stx12 ad 2)
stx12 i will add it as soon as we finish this meeting
stx12 it's one of the possible derivatives of the symbol
southerncross ok
oulipo_to stx12: will not the eventually completed trademark policy cover usage?
southerncross thanks stx12
southerncross nope: we need actual "branding" policies, that is designs
southerncross those are ot
southerncross not covered by the trademark policies
stx12 oulipo_to: to a certain degree; but as said earlier we have differentiate between the when/if and how
southerncross because they are subject to change from one release to another
stx12 the "how" will be covered in the guidelines
oulipo_to where are we working on that docuemnt? trademark@coiuncil?
stx12 and i think this should be one of the first topics in the beanding initiative
oulipo_to or branding@marketing?
stx12 the latter
stx12 see the status section in the web page
oulipo_to and, yes, I quite agree: a logo without a policy is a clothing without the man :-)
oulipo_to ah
oulipo_to any more comments?
oulipo_to if not, let's move on to the proper agenda
stx12 that's it from my end on branding
CorNouws Yes, I 'll send our rough detailed draft this evening
oulipo_to Thanks
oulipo_to so, on to agenda...
southerncross yes
southerncross one
southerncross a bit controversial:
southerncross how do we do the damage control withe art project?
oulipo_to southerncross: what do you mean, exactly?
southerncross they expect or will expect an explanation....
cloph good thing is that the branding-initiative was already announced / art project is aware of branding efforts - so while there surely will be complaints, at least it doesn't come full out of nowhere
stx12 members of the art project have been involved in the branding group; i would be glad if we could convince those to continue with the effort in the branding initiative
CorNouws I think it is of the greatest importance what Stefan said in his first statement
southerncross what I mean is this: they work on logo proposals, then Hamburg + the CC works on another one, and then we tell them
CorNouws and the effort to learn we started with
oulipo_to and I think we've made some good efforts to inform them of the situation, no?
CorNouws southerncross: so you agree with us (stefan and me) that is was not ideal the process ;-)
stx12 oulipo_to: to a certain degree; and where this is/was incomplete we'll (CorNouws and I) see in our "postmortem"
oulipo_to perhaps we should get back to the agenda, as it is late....
oulipo_to stx12: great! I look forward to it, as we've certainly gone over this ground before, with other issues, and it's often been painful
CorNouws southerncross: Is this clear enought for now?
* oulipo_to ten years of memories to be forgotten :-)
southerncross help us to take the designs further
southerncross but they need to know wha
southerncross why we superseded their own initiatives.
southerncross yes, I was wondering on the practicalities of the issue
southerncross like sending an email, etc. , that's a matter of communication, not a matter of dealing with the issue itself.
southerncross CorNouws: yes
CorNouws southerncross: Thanks. And I agree, it is communication.
* stx12 feel's like southerncross is going to join CorNouws and me to investigate one or the other area
CorNouws stx12: ;-)
oulipo_to stx12, Cor, I'd be happy to join your effort
oulipo_to but I suspect the fewer engaged in it the fastrer its production
CorNouws oulipo_to: Thanks Louis (and all others that will join as well ;-) )
oulipo_to Stefan and I have similar memories of like events, issues, over the last decade....
jsc important is the outcome and that we will really learn something ;-)
CorNouws Indeed: quality, no spead pls - but lets discuss this later and I follow your proposal to look at the agenda ..
oulipo_to very well, then let's turn to the agenda
oulipo_to 1.0: 2010-03-03: Louis sent the mail for nomination on 2010-02-27. The nomination phase will end 2010-03-15 15 at 24:00 UTC.
oulipo_to Next Steps: ???
southerncross stx12: sure, why not. Community processes have to be respected EVEN IF some of the community logos in the pas (think Otto) make me think we ought to have been more professional, just like the refresh of these days...
southerncross sure, sorry.
oulipo_to next step is like the November election: we wait for the nominations period to expire 15 March
oulipo_to then move on with the nominations provided; stx12 updates the voting mechanism and will, if he is inclined, notify the relevant communities
* stx12 thanks _Nesshof_ for the code contributor list to fill the voting machine
oulipo_to we then hold the vote over a period of one week (more if desired)
mhu have we already had nominations ?
oulipo_to yes
oulipo_to John McC was nominated by Florian E.
mhu oh, I must have missed that ...
oulipo_to he posted it to dev@marketing
oulipo_to which is the relevant community.k
oulipo_to he mght want to post it to discuss@ooo, as well
mhu ah, I have ~250 unread messages in dev@marketing :-(
oulipo_to and I'll remind him to do so.
oulipo_to :-)
oulipo_to I think that 1.0 on agenda has been updated sufficiently
oulipo_to let us move on to 2.09:
oulipo_to 2.0, that is
oulipo_to I sent to the CC members the draft I'm working on
CorNouws Thanks - shall we have a look and finalize for next meeting?
oulipo_to it's simolar language for Inc. and NLC, modulo the future options each category implies
oulipo_to well, yoiu can spare your eyes the look now; I ssent it mostly to get myself over the writers' block that had prevented me from doing this
oulipo_to a better draft will be ready tonight or tomorrow
oulipo_to but, yes, next meeting for finished version (or version nearly finished, absent commentary from the CC)
oulipo_to so update: being worked on, finished version for next meeting for approval by CC, with version to be sent to the list 3 days prior to the CC meeting if not sooner
oulipo_to comments?
mhu fine with me
CorNouws no more than: thanks again
oulipo_to okay, then let's move on to 3
oulipo_to Publicise the open slot at the start of the CC meetings
oulipo_to that coiuld be rephrased, as, "Publicise the CC meeting. State that community can attend if not participate for 1/2 hour of meeting"
oulipo_to but phrased like that, it also sounds kind of lame
oulipo_to so, do we want participation?
oulipo_to I'd say, yes. but only with agenda items
oulipo_to (I had raised this point, a version of it, at least, earlier)
CorNouws No, sounds to wide for me
jsc maybe -> 10 minutes public Q&A to the CC
CorNouws I propose that we think a bit further first
CorNouws jsc: yes, smtng like that
oulipo_to okay; but jsc's QA is about the same as agenda items: focused discussion, not wide stuff
mhu maybe _Nesshof_ can rephrase his initial idea ... ?
oulipo_to hence, "agenda items"
CorNouws oulipo_to: it is getting late, and this point is not urgent.
CorNouws so do it next meeting pls
_Nesshof_ mhu: Yes, I will do a proposal for this
mhu thanks, Martin
* cloph likes this "open door" idea
_Nesshof_ you can transfer the AI to me
jsc or you can simply take it ;-) -> it's a wiki ;-)
oulipo_to then update for 3.0: Martin has taken on the AI and will frame the scope and kind of participation by the community in the next council meeting, or at least when it is suitable (next may not be)
oulipo_to jsc: that agenda is for this meeting, not next
jsc ok
oulipo_to So, on to #4: Work with Clayton on estimates for Developing developers documentation
oulipo_to Jürgen, that's yours for updating....
jsc i hope you all have read the proposal
jsc i think it's too much to cover it in one step
jsc i would propose to skip the extensions part and focus on the core development guide
oulipo_to hm.
oulipo_to that is direclty in contrast to what we agreed upon in hamburg....
oulipo_to I mean, extensions can be worked oin without too much effort, relatively speaking
CorNouws oulipo_to: not as I see it
oulipo_to core requires a lot of investment
oulipo_to CorNouws; explain
CorNouws extensions part as so much finished already
CorNouws or istn't it
jsc but that is more needed and 40K is too much i think
CorNouws that what we really want is next steps
CorNouws XXX break here
CorNouws we agreed not to start too wide detailed discussions in the meetings
oulipo_to CorNouws, jsc" I am all for Core development!
oulipo_to but... for getting things going, first, I had the impression we needed the extensions done
CorNouws if it is not clear: bakc to the table (list) to make more detailed / worked out proposal pls
southerncross look; if I may: if anyone wants to talk money then we need requirements and some form of work items for the paid writer.
oulipo_to I am tending to agree with CorNouws: this needs specifics
southerncross you don't thrown xx K Euros or dollars out in the nature....
* mhu agrees with CorNouws: we obviously need more detailed discuss on the list first
jsc the AI was for all to come with proposals based on Clayton's work
CorNouws oulipo_to: thnks. jsc: help needed in the discussion, workin out details?
CorNouws jsc: Yes, we saw some comments and those can be used for a adapted proposal?
jsc i will talk with Clayton
jsc how much money do we want to invest, roughly?
oulipo_to So, update 4.0: Jürgen, in addition to others to work on tech writer propsal ; jsc will coordinate with Clayton (and others, I presume)
oulipo_to I am not familiar with how much a tech writer costs
oulipo_to but I'd guess that for something like this, if we are working on Core and Extensions (or vice versa), around 15K
* CorNouws I thought we stalled the topic, eeh tipoc
* cloph sees PDL and fears this will lead to "stupid licence choice, impossible to keep it up-to-date/too much burden for contributors" style comments - Put otherwise: Is it planned to release updates to that document/book regularily, or will it be released once, then constantly updated online (or forgotten, having it bit rot?) Or is this question way too early in the process?
oulipo_to but I'd ask Frank Peters (down the hall) how much tech writers cost
CorNouws 5 GSOC - no reply from the google GSOC manager alas
CorNouws maybe we can make a last (indirect) effort to establish contact
CorNouws steps have to be taken really soon
CorNouws will conact John ASAP
CorNouws next item pls
oulipo_to cloph: no, it's a relevant question but it is also one that can be answered and dealt with on list
oulipo_to CorNouws; hold on, please
jsc that was done with the initial proposal
CorNouws oulipo_to: who is breaking order?
oulipo_to but if we are agreed, let's indeed move on to #5
oulipo_to so, we have the update from CorNouws
* CorNouws don't want to stop avoid discussion - but can better be done later - sorry
oulipo_to Cor: I know Leslie quite well
cloph n.p - just continue, didn't expect a final answer/discussion on this
oulipo_to If it is okay with yoiu, I would contact her
CorNouws yes pls, will send you our initial mails
oulipo_to but I also want to see about our own related efforts--the internship program
oulipo_to CorNouws: thanks. feel free to do so whenever you can
CorNouws different tipoc, to come later, not now
oulipo_to CorNouws: yes, I know
oulipo_to agreed to move onto #6?
oulipo_to Talk to Education Project Leads about structure and remit
oulipo_to Cor: update?
CorNouws No progres - i've been 'Branded' last week
CorNouws but have some contact with John (again) on this
CorNouws will foloow up asap
CorNouws OK?
oulipo_to okay; thanks. I've been pinged by one of the leads, too, and must respond
oulipo_to thanks
mhu okay
oulipo_to all agreed to move onto #7?
oulipo_to Charles: Talk to NLC about ‘NLC of the Month’ for OOo Newsletter
southerncross yes: So again GA project is the first one (Irish Gaelic)
southerncross and I expect the interview to be completed by tomorrow or so
southerncross Once I have the full text
southerncross I will send it to Kay Koll
southerncross but will also work with John and Florian on this.
southerncross You should also know that there's some initiative to publish the interview in a local newspaper
southerncross as part of the promotion efforts for OOo there.
southerncross Other than that, not much...
oulipo_to southerncross: that's great
oulipo_to by local newspaper, which Locality?
southerncross thanks. Let's see what it will give. GA project is small, so we'll see what impact it can have
southerncross oh, the Irish Gaelic newspaper.
southerncross one of them, at least, if there's more than one.
southerncross my wild guess is the local Galway newspaper?
oulipo_to cool. I should hope we can also inspire the Welsh and other gaels ...
* southerncross nods
* oulipo_to wonders if iti is Lá Nua....
southerncross ah, perhaps.
oulipo_to thanks for this and let's keep others involved. As always, of course, it would be even better if they not only used it in Ireland, but also decided to spare some brain and develop it :-)
oulipo_to shall we move on to next item?
CorNouws pls
cloph for the template, Christoph did commit an update to the wiki yesterday, and updated the agenda page accordingly - to quote him "Please review the proposal - or even better - accept it :-)" http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Proposed_Improvements
cloph (the day before yesterday)
jsc yes, i saw it and like it +1 from me for it
CorNouws sorry to say I did not find/make time to review.
_Nesshof_ +1 as well
oulipo_to I also did not but will do so immediately
oulipo_to after this meeting
jsc CorNouws: trust us ;-)
mhu +1, looks good to me.
oulipo_to have others reviewed it yet? If not, please do so and comment onlist or now
stx12 it's fine with me
oulipo_to given our past history, I urge you to wait with coments until you've actually read it over and thought about it
cloph no problem if you want to reply after official meeting, I'll be online
oulipo_to thanks; we also have the list :-)
cloph (or of course you can use mail, etc)
oulipo_to but a quick survey suggests it's pretty good. but I want to look at it more deeply
CorNouws I will have a look especially at how I can really use it for my tasks in the CC
oulipo_to so AI to us all, please look over Christoph's proposal and submit to the list yoru comments
oulipo_to if all agreed, let's move on
oulipo_to John is absent today so cannot do it, but MH....?
mhu #9 is done
oulipo_to the wiki link?
mhu oh, John did send it via email ... wait ...
mhu http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Funding_And_Budgets#Budgets
oulipo_to thx
jsc by the way he column additional information in the agenda can be used in front of the meeting
oulipo_to this is much clearer
oulipo_to all agreed, shall we move onto 10 and 11?
cloph As for calendar, pages are updated/online, so basically "task completed" :-) http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Calendar
oulipo_to thx!
oulipo_to so, onto #11
oulipo_to Trademark Stefan
oulipo_to Next Step: Stefan will provide some updates in the next meeting.
stx12 i don't have a real update; at least the contacts in the new company have been established.
oulipo_to shall we have an update next meeting?
stx12 sure
oulipo_to do we have new items for the last 6 plus minutes?
oulipo_to or five plus, that is
CorNouws no thanks - have another appointement ;-)
oulipo_to if no other news, then I move to adjourn this meeting
jsc we should put the branding item in the agenda for completeness
oulipo_to jsc: feel free :-)
CorNouws looks good that we managed to finish the agenda and more
oulipo_to new item for agenda next meeting: branding completion
stx12 ?
oulipo_to jsc: elaborate...
oulipo_to ah, I misread jsc
oulipo_to sorry, he meant to add it to today's
oulipo_to apologies
stx12 I don't think that branding is a standing item for the agenda.
oulipo_to so, this meeting is closed then, and branding was for today, not hence
stx12 ah, ok.
CorNouws ok - but who was doing minutes? or did I miss that in the beginning?
oulipo_to talk to you all later
oulipo_to no, you did not
oulipo_to minutes, as opposed to IRC log differ
oulipo_to for now, I'll post IRC log

Meeting adjourned approx. 21:00 UTC
</pre>

Community Council/Items/call for nominations 201003

2010-02-27T16:10:38Z

LouisSuarez: Created page with 'All, On behalf of the Community Council, I would like to announce the new round of elections for the Council and start the process by asking the OpenOffice.org Community members…'

All,

On behalf of the Community Council, I would like to announce the new round of elections for the Council and start the process by asking the OpenOffice.org Community members to nominate those they think would best contribute both to the Council and to OpenOffice.org. You may nominate yourself.

Consider doing that. Or nominate someone you think has been particularly valuable for the project; he or she need not be a developer! This cycle, like the first one last year, is important. OpenOffice.org is ten this year and the eyes of the world are looking upon us with eagerness to see how we work with business, government, education, and individuals. Your voice, your input, your experience is needed to take OOo into its next decade.

The rules for the process are detailed in a wiki on the subject.[0] I won't bore you by repeating them here; please visit the wiki page.

Several categories of OpenOffice.org contributors make up the Council, for a total of ten persons. Those categories cover the breadth of OpenOffice.org and are detailed below. All but one, the permanent Sun/Oracle representative, are elected by community vote. That seat is held by Stefan Taxhet. The terms of Pavel Janík, Martin Hollmichel and John McCreesh have reached their end and their seats are up for election. On behalf of all, I'd like to thank them for their long and immensely productive contributions to the Council!

The seats open for election include a Native Language Confederation Representative (the seat now held by Pavel), a Code Contributor Representative (Martin) and Product Development Representative (John). Community members only vote for those who will represent the constituency: developers vote for the developer seat, product development for that seat, and so on. You will receive an email informing you of your constituency; this is based on your role in the Project.

== Details about the nomination ==

The nomination process is normally allotted one week dated from this post; however, the last time we went through this, last year, we were asked to give more time for nominations, and so this time around, we are allowing two weeks for nominations commencing 1 March and ending 15 March at 24:00 UTC. We will be using tried and true technology for the actual voting: the Survey machine, and only Community Members will be allowed to vote. Results will be posted in accordance with the published Election Process and a copy of this post will also be posted to the wiki, at http://wiki.services.openoffice.rog/wiki/council/items/call_for_nominations_201003 . A commissary will help coordinate the election process, and I'll serve in that role. The observers will be Sophie Gautier and Drew Jensen, as with last year's election.

This announcement will be posted to the relevant public lists, as detailed in the Election Process wiki:dev@openoffice.org, dev@native_lang.openoffice.org, discuss@openoffice.org as well as dev@l10n.openoffice.org and project_leads@openoffice.org.

Again, consider nominating yourself or someone equally interesting. We need energetic contributors who understand the Project and have a sense of its dynamic and potential. The world is changing--we know that-- and to make sure it changes for the better, join us on the Council.

Louis

*[0] http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Items/Election_Process_Proposal
*[1] http://wiki.services.openoffice.rog/wiki/council/items/call_for_nominations_201003

--
<pre>
Louis Suarez-Potts, PhD
Community Manager
OpenOffice.org
</pre>

Events

2010-02-05T12:41:58Z

LouisSuarez: Created page with '==OpenOffice.org Events== :Page under construction. Purpose: list of events which OpenOffice.org finds interesting to attend and participate in.'

==OpenOffice.org Events==
:Page under construction. Purpose: list of events which OpenOffice.org finds interesting to attend and participate in.

Conferences/FOSDEM/2010

2010-02-01T02:45:16Z

LouisSuarez: /* Team */

{{DISPLAYTITLE:FOSDEM 2010}}

[http://www.fosdem.org/2010/ FOSDEM] 6-7 February 2010 in Brussels, Belgium

This page will collect ideas, todos and everything else that is related to the OpenOffice.org project activities @FOSDEM 2010. Planned activities are so far a stand to represent the OpenOffice.org project and to be the central info point for all OpenOffice.org related questions. And we want again organize a DevRoom to inform about our ongoing development work and projects. For more details please check the sections below.

==Communication Channel==
For all FOSDEM relevant communication the mailing list [http://marketing.openoffice.org/servlets/SummarizeList?listName=fosdem fosdem@marketing.openffcie.org] is used. If you are interested in any activities around FOSDEM please [http://marketing.openoffice.org/servlets/ProjectMailingListList subscribe] yourself. For special message or requests (like CFP) we will use some further mailing lists as well.

==DevRoom==
OpenOffice.org is accepted and we have a DevRoom for 1 day, on Saturday 6th February from 13:00 to 19:00. We will share our DevRoom with the ODF group which have no additional own DevRoom.

===Call for Papers===
The schedule for our DevRoom is organized by us and we can use the time as we want. We should plan with 45, 90 or 120 minutes sessions.

Some things that should be taken into account
* activity title (please try to be descriptive, there are ~250 talks at FOSDEM during the week-end ;)),
* a short abstract (1-2 paragraphs),
* a longer description if appropriate,
* optionally a list of links to the project website or similar
* for each speaker:
** the speaker's real name,
** a short overview of her bio in a couple of lines,
** optionally also a longer bio,
** optionally a picture (please send it to Juergen as 128x128 PNG),
** optionally links to her website, blog, ...

We have no guarantee so far but probably we can sponsor potential speakers with some funding to at least cover parts of the costs.

====Proposals====
Papers, talks, workshop proposals or something else that fits into the DevRoom should be proposed on the following wiki page [[Conferences/FOSDEM/2010/CFP|CFP]] until Friday 12/18/2009.

===Schedule===

Changes are still possible

{| border=1
|+ DevRoom Overview
|- bgcolor=#CDDBF6
| colspan="5" align="center" | '''[http://www.fosdem.org/2010/schedule/devrooms/openofficeorg OpenOffice.org DevRoom]''', Building AW, Room AW1.120
|- bgcolor=#CDDBF6
! Time !! Title !! Session type !! Slides !!Speaker
|- bgcolor=#7c9acd
| colspan="5" align="center" | '''OpenOffice.org'''
|-
| 13:00 - 13:45 || [[Conferences/FOSDEM/2010/CFP#Tips_and_Tricks_for_Extension_Developer|Welcome + Tips and Tricks for Extension Developer]] || talk || ? || [[User:Jsc|Juergen Schmidt]]
|-
| 13:45 - 14:30 || [[Conferences/FOSDEM/2010/CFP#New_docking_windows_for_a_better_UI_.26_extension_integration|New docking windows for a better UI & extension integration]] || talk || ? || Carsten Driesner
|-
| 14:30 - 15:15 || [[Conferences/FOSDEM/2010/CFP#Improving_the_OpenOffice.org_Build_System|Improving the OpenOffice.org Build System]] || talk || ? || Bjoern Michaelsen
|-
| 15:15 - 16:00 || [[Conferences/FOSDEM/2010/CFP#Just_Testing|Just Testing]] || talk || ? || Stephan Bergmann
|-
| 16:00 - 16:45 || [[Conferences/FOSDEM/2010/CFP#Show_me_YOUR_code|Show me YOUR code]] || workshop || ? || [[User:ErAck|Eike Rathke]]
|-
| 16:45 - 17:30 || [[Conferences/FOSDEM/2010/CFP#Hidden_Pearls_-_What.27s_There_to_ReUse_for_Other_Projects|Hidden Pearls - What's There to ReUse for Other Projects]] || talk || ? || Thorsten Behrens
|- bgcolor=#7c9acd
| colspan="5" align="center" | '''ODF'''
|-
| 17:30 - 18:00 || [[Conferences/FOSDEM/2010/CFP#ODF_Tools_and_Resources|ODF Tools and Resources]] || talk || ? || [http://be.linkedin.com/in/barthanssens Bart Hanssens]
|-
| 18:00 - 18:30 || [[Conferences/FOSDEM/2010/CFP#ODF_on_the_server_-_ODFDOM_architecture|ODF on the server - ODFDOM architecture]] || talk || ? || Svante Schubert
|-
| 18:30 - 19:00 || [[Conferences/FOSDEM/2010/CFP#lpOD_.E2.80.93_languages_.26_platforms_OpenDocument|lpOD – languages & platforms OpenDocument]] || talk || ? || Luis Belmar Letelier
|}

== Stand/Booth ==

Our stand will be most probably in building AW

{| border="1"
|+ Stand Overview
|- bgcolor="#cddbf6"
! Time
! Stand staff
|- bgcolor="#7c9acd"
| align="center" colspan="2" | '''Saturday 6th'''
|-
| 10:00 - 12:00
| floeff, jsc, lmo, sb, sophi, b_michaelsen 
|-
| 12:00 - 14:00
| floeff, lmo, er, sophi, thb, jra 
|-
| 14:00 - 16:00
| floeff, cno, lmo, sophi, cd, jra 
|-
| 16:00 - 18:00
| floeff, jsc, cno, lmo, sophi, b_michaelsen 
|- bgcolor="#7c9acd"
| align="center" colspan="4" | '''Sunday 7th'''
|-
| 10:00 - 12:00
| probably floeff, jsc, sophi, b_michaelsen, thb 
|-
| 12:00 - 14:00
| jsc, cno, sb, sophi, cd, jra
|-
| 14:00 - 16:00
| cno, er, sophi, jra
|-
| 16:00 - 17:00
| cno, sophi, jra 
|}

=== Stand material ===
* sophi: I'll bring a coffee machine, tea and coffee, water, biscuits and cakes. Plugs, scissors, etc... A blue table coth. What else?
* jsc: i will bring 3 posters, stickers and t-shirts. All with the same design!

{| border=1 cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0"
|-
| [[Image:fosdem_design.png|thumb|left|150px|FOSDEM design]] || valign="top" | [[File:fosdem_design.pdf]] || valign="top" | design background: - the squirl stands for a moving, rotating, active, vital community - the cubes stand for the many, many individuals - and the different colors stand for different countries, continents.
|}

==Saturday Evening OOo Community Event==
===Where===
'''[http://www.sensum.be/en/resto/show/l-achepot?Brussels L'Achepot]''' (Gourmet Bistro)

Place Sainte-Catherine, 1 - 1000 Brussels - Tel : +32 (0)2 511 62 21

Open from 12h to 14h30 and from 19h to 22h45.

===When===
8:00pm?

== Team ==

...details will coming soon

{| border="1"
|- bgcolor="#cddbf6"
! Name
! Stay
! Function
! Funding request
! Dinner on Saturday
|-
| Juergen Schmidt
| Friday - Sunday
| Stand/DevRoom
| 140 Euro hotel, ~150 Euro fuel
| yes
|-
| Florian Effenberger 
| Friday-Sunday
| Stand/Marketing
| 233 Euro flight, ~144 Euro hotel 
| yes
|-
| Cor Nouws [cno] 
| both days
| Stand/Marketing
| 70 Euro Hotel, 90 Euro train
| yes
|-
| Jacqueline Rahemipour
| both days
| Stand/Marketing 
| 120 Eur hotel, 90 Eur train
| yes
|-
| Eike Rathke
| both days
| Stand / DevRoom
| 140 Euro hotel, ~150 Euro fuel
| yes, 2 persons
|-
| Thorsten Behrens
| both days
| Stand / DevRoom
| 124 Euro hotel, 140 Euro airfare
| yes
|-
| Bjoern Michaelsen
| both days
| Stand / DevRoom
| 140 Euro hotel
|  ?
|-
| Stephan Bergmann
| both days
| Stand / DevRoom
| 140 Euro hotel
| yes
|-
| Carsten Driesner
| both days
| Stand / DevRoom
| 140 Euro hotel, ~150 Euro fuel
| yes
|-
| Leo Moons
| Saturday
| Stand
| no
| yes
|-
| Sophie Gautier
| both days
| Stand
| no
| yes, 2 persons
|-
| Louis Suarez-Potts
| Friday-Sunday
| Stand
| Yes: flight & lodging
| Yes
|-
| Michael and Mechtilde
| Saturday-Sunday
| Stand / QA
|78 € + < 50 €
|
|}

==Hotel Recommendation==
Brussels is a big city and especially during work days crowded with EU people. Here you can find three hotels that are all in the city directly and a perfect start point for the conference as well as night life activities. The prices are all for a single room.

* [http://www.astridhotel.be/ Hotel Astrid], price at the weekend 69 Euro or Cash&Sleep 59 Euro
* [http://www.arishotel.be/ Hotel Aris], price at the weekend 75 Euro or Cash&Sleep 65 Euro
* [http://www.almahotel.be/ Hotel Alma], price at the weekend 75 Euro or Cash&Sleep 65 Euro

Feel free to insert some more recommendations.

[[Category:Conferences]]
[[Category:FOSDEM]]

Conferences/FOSDEM/2010

2010-02-01T02:44:39Z

LouisSuarez: /* Team */

{{DISPLAYTITLE:FOSDEM 2010}}

[http://www.fosdem.org/2010/ FOSDEM] 6-7 February 2010 in Brussels, Belgium

This page will collect ideas, todos and everything else that is related to the OpenOffice.org project activities @FOSDEM 2010. Planned activities are so far a stand to represent the OpenOffice.org project and to be the central info point for all OpenOffice.org related questions. And we want again organize a DevRoom to inform about our ongoing development work and projects. For more details please check the sections below.

==Communication Channel==
For all FOSDEM relevant communication the mailing list [http://marketing.openoffice.org/servlets/SummarizeList?listName=fosdem fosdem@marketing.openffcie.org] is used. If you are interested in any activities around FOSDEM please [http://marketing.openoffice.org/servlets/ProjectMailingListList subscribe] yourself. For special message or requests (like CFP) we will use some further mailing lists as well.

==DevRoom==
OpenOffice.org is accepted and we have a DevRoom for 1 day, on Saturday 6th February from 13:00 to 19:00. We will share our DevRoom with the ODF group which have no additional own DevRoom.

===Call for Papers===
The schedule for our DevRoom is organized by us and we can use the time as we want. We should plan with 45, 90 or 120 minutes sessions.

Some things that should be taken into account
* activity title (please try to be descriptive, there are ~250 talks at FOSDEM during the week-end ;)),
* a short abstract (1-2 paragraphs),
* a longer description if appropriate,
* optionally a list of links to the project website or similar
* for each speaker:
** the speaker's real name,
** a short overview of her bio in a couple of lines,
** optionally also a longer bio,
** optionally a picture (please send it to Juergen as 128x128 PNG),
** optionally links to her website, blog, ...

We have no guarantee so far but probably we can sponsor potential speakers with some funding to at least cover parts of the costs.

====Proposals====
Papers, talks, workshop proposals or something else that fits into the DevRoom should be proposed on the following wiki page [[Conferences/FOSDEM/2010/CFP|CFP]] until Friday 12/18/2009.

===Schedule===

Changes are still possible

{| border=1
|+ DevRoom Overview
|- bgcolor=#CDDBF6
| colspan="5" align="center" | '''[http://www.fosdem.org/2010/schedule/devrooms/openofficeorg OpenOffice.org DevRoom]''', Building AW, Room AW1.120
|- bgcolor=#CDDBF6
! Time !! Title !! Session type !! Slides !!Speaker
|- bgcolor=#7c9acd
| colspan="5" align="center" | '''OpenOffice.org'''
|-
| 13:00 - 13:45 || [[Conferences/FOSDEM/2010/CFP#Tips_and_Tricks_for_Extension_Developer|Welcome + Tips and Tricks for Extension Developer]] || talk || ? || [[User:Jsc|Juergen Schmidt]]
|-
| 13:45 - 14:30 || [[Conferences/FOSDEM/2010/CFP#New_docking_windows_for_a_better_UI_.26_extension_integration|New docking windows for a better UI & extension integration]] || talk || ? || Carsten Driesner
|-
| 14:30 - 15:15 || [[Conferences/FOSDEM/2010/CFP#Improving_the_OpenOffice.org_Build_System|Improving the OpenOffice.org Build System]] || talk || ? || Bjoern Michaelsen
|-
| 15:15 - 16:00 || [[Conferences/FOSDEM/2010/CFP#Just_Testing|Just Testing]] || talk || ? || Stephan Bergmann
|-
| 16:00 - 16:45 || [[Conferences/FOSDEM/2010/CFP#Show_me_YOUR_code|Show me YOUR code]] || workshop || ? || [[User:ErAck|Eike Rathke]]
|-
| 16:45 - 17:30 || [[Conferences/FOSDEM/2010/CFP#Hidden_Pearls_-_What.27s_There_to_ReUse_for_Other_Projects|Hidden Pearls - What's There to ReUse for Other Projects]] || talk || ? || Thorsten Behrens
|- bgcolor=#7c9acd
| colspan="5" align="center" | '''ODF'''
|-
| 17:30 - 18:00 || [[Conferences/FOSDEM/2010/CFP#ODF_Tools_and_Resources|ODF Tools and Resources]] || talk || ? || [http://be.linkedin.com/in/barthanssens Bart Hanssens]
|-
| 18:00 - 18:30 || [[Conferences/FOSDEM/2010/CFP#ODF_on_the_server_-_ODFDOM_architecture|ODF on the server - ODFDOM architecture]] || talk || ? || Svante Schubert
|-
| 18:30 - 19:00 || [[Conferences/FOSDEM/2010/CFP#lpOD_.E2.80.93_languages_.26_platforms_OpenDocument|lpOD – languages & platforms OpenDocument]] || talk || ? || Luis Belmar Letelier
|}

== Stand/Booth ==

Our stand will be most probably in building AW

{| border="1"
|+ Stand Overview
|- bgcolor="#cddbf6"
! Time
! Stand staff
|- bgcolor="#7c9acd"
| align="center" colspan="2" | '''Saturday 6th'''
|-
| 10:00 - 12:00
| floeff, jsc, lmo, sb, sophi, b_michaelsen 
|-
| 12:00 - 14:00
| floeff, lmo, er, sophi, thb, jra 
|-
| 14:00 - 16:00
| floeff, cno, lmo, sophi, cd, jra 
|-
| 16:00 - 18:00
| floeff, jsc, cno, lmo, sophi, b_michaelsen 
|- bgcolor="#7c9acd"
| align="center" colspan="4" | '''Sunday 7th'''
|-
| 10:00 - 12:00
| probably floeff, jsc, sophi, b_michaelsen, thb 
|-
| 12:00 - 14:00
| jsc, cno, sb, sophi, cd, jra
|-
| 14:00 - 16:00
| cno, er, sophi, jra
|-
| 16:00 - 17:00
| cno, sophi, jra 
|}

=== Stand material ===
* sophi: I'll bring a coffee machine, tea and coffee, water, biscuits and cakes. Plugs, scissors, etc... A blue table coth. What else?
* jsc: i will bring 3 posters, stickers and t-shirts. All with the same design!

{| border=1 cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0"
|-
| [[Image:fosdem_design.png|thumb|left|150px|FOSDEM design]] || valign="top" | [[File:fosdem_design.pdf]] || valign="top" | design background: - the squirl stands for a moving, rotating, active, vital community - the cubes stand for the many, many individuals - and the different colors stand for different countries, continents.
|}

==Saturday Evening OOo Community Event==
===Where===
'''[http://www.sensum.be/en/resto/show/l-achepot?Brussels L'Achepot]''' (Gourmet Bistro)

Place Sainte-Catherine, 1 - 1000 Brussels - Tel : +32 (0)2 511 62 21

Open from 12h to 14h30 and from 19h to 22h45.

===When===
8:00pm?

== Team ==

...details will coming soon

{| border="1"
|- bgcolor="#cddbf6"
! Name
! Stay
! Function
! Funding request
! Dinner on Saturday
|-
| Juergen Schmidt
| Friday - Sunday
| Stand/DevRoom
| 140 Euro hotel, ~150 Euro fuel
| yes
|-
| Florian Effenberger 
| Friday-Sunday
| Stand/Marketing
| 233 Euro flight, ~144 Euro hotel 
| yes
|-
| Cor Nouws [cno] 
| both days
| Stand/Marketing
| 70 Euro Hotel, 90 Euro train
| yes
|-
| Jacqueline Rahemipour
| both days
| Stand/Marketing 
| 120 Eur hotel, 90 Eur train
| yes
|-
| Eike Rathke
| both days
| Stand / DevRoom
| 140 Euro hotel, ~150 Euro fuel
| yes, 2 persons
|-
| Thorsten Behrens
| both days
| Stand / DevRoom
| 124 Euro hotel, 140 Euro airfare
| yes
|-
| Bjoern Michaelsen
| both days
| Stand / DevRoom
| 140 Euro hotel
|  ?
|-
| Stephan Bergmann
| both days
| Stand / DevRoom
| 140 Euro hotel
| yes
|-
| Carsten Driesner
| both days
| Stand / DevRoom
| 140 Euro hotel, ~150 Euro fuel
| yes
|-
| Leo Moons
| Saturday
| Stand
| no
| yes
|-
| Sophie Gautier
| both days
| Stand
| no
| yes, 2 persons
|-
| Louis Suarez-Potts
| Friday-Sunday
| Stand
| Yes
| Yes
|-
| Michael and Mechtilde
| Saturday-Sunday
| Stand / QA
|78 € + < 50 €
|
|}

==Hotel Recommendation==
Brussels is a big city and especially during work days crowded with EU people. Here you can find three hotels that are all in the city directly and a perfect start point for the conference as well as night life activities. The prices are all for a single room.

* [http://www.astridhotel.be/ Hotel Astrid], price at the weekend 69 Euro or Cash&Sleep 59 Euro
* [http://www.arishotel.be/ Hotel Aris], price at the weekend 75 Euro or Cash&Sleep 65 Euro
* [http://www.almahotel.be/ Hotel Alma], price at the weekend 75 Euro or Cash&Sleep 65 Euro

Feel free to insert some more recommendations.

[[Category:Conferences]]
[[Category:FOSDEM]]

Community Council/Minutes

2010-01-21T20:59:07Z

LouisSuarez: /* IRC log */

=Minutes of Meetings=

== 2010-01-21 ==
=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20100121]]

== 2009-12-17 ==

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20091217]]

=== AIs ===

# Budget '''Louis: prepare a wiki page with events'''.
# Trademark Policy ''ST to take back to trademark list'': ST indicates he'll start Friday discussions again; AI ''ST: add new CC members to list'': done.
# Elections: first cycle is finished. Next steps:
## ''Jürgen: Update council webpage'': done
## ''Louis: Notification to broader community about results'' (done)
## '''Louis: Initiate phase 2 of the new election for Martin, Pavel, John.''': put on hold until after holidays, viz., post 6 jan
## '''Louis: advertise public part at #ooocouncilpub in the beginning before next council meeting''': Louis suggest we do it for next meeting.
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## '''Martin to put together a proposal for hiring a technical writer to document getting started on OOo development.''': open
## '''AI: "Winter of Code"; Cor to own and cry for help if required.'''; list to be used is mentoring @ ooo: open
# Distribution infrastructure (Bouncer); '''John''': We are on target to use mirrorbrain for 3.2; Louis proposed '''AI: that the CC publicly thanks the volunteer mirrors on the release of 3.2 for 9 plus years of heroic work including and esp. osuosl.'''
# l10n infrastructure (Pootle): ''ST: Pootle version upgrade imminent beginnig 2010''; ''AI: Owner?: find better tool that is a closer fit, if necessary''; '''Cor is going to contact Andre.'''
# Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC. '''Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list - carry forward'''; see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2101] to be inforporated in http://native-lang.openoffice.org/#terminus and http://www.openoffice.org/about_us/protocols_proposing.html
# Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects. '''Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting - carry forward'''
# Budget 2010: ''AI: all budget holders to submit their requests for a share of this 100k''. See proposal from Matthias [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2324]; '''Vote on Matthias Proposal pending'''
# Council coordinator: choosing ST's successor (for the period from February 2010 - May 2010).
# '''Juergen: Prepare Agenda for F2F Meeting in Hamburg, February 4/5;'''
# Education Project to be discussed during f2f
# Move of Infrastucture to be presented during f2f

== 2009-11-26 ==

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20091126]]

=== AIs ===

# Budget ''Louis: will send list of events to plan the marketing budget shortly'': A provisional list was sent to list. New AI is '''Louis: prepare a wiki page with events'''.
# Trademark Policy ''ST to take back to trademark list'': no update; new AI ''ST: add new CC members to list''
# Elections: first cycle is finished. Next steps:
## ''Jürgen: Update council webpage''
## ''Louis: Notification to broader community about results'' (done)
## ''Louis: Initiate phase 2 of the new election''' for Martin, Pavel, John.''
## ''Louis: advertise public part at #ooocouncilpub in the beginning before next council meeting''
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## ''Martin to put together a proposal for hiring a technical writer to document getting started on OOo development.''
## ''AI: "Winter of Code"; Cor to own and cry for help if required.''; list to be used is mentoring @ ooo
# Distribution infrastructure (Bouncer); Wait for results of testing (prepared by Florian) - MirrorBrain looks like a good replacement for Bouncer but MI needs sorting. ''AI: John to talk to Florian to see if we should hire someone to develop the MI''
# l10n infrastructure (Pootle): ''ST: Pootle version upgrade imminent beginnig 2010''; ''AI: Owner?: find better tool that is a closer fit, if necessary''
# Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC. ''Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list - carry forward''
# Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects. ''Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting - carry forward''
# Budget 2010: ''AI: all budget holders to submit their requests for a share of this 100k''. See proposal from Matthias [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2324]
# Council coordinator: choosing ST's successor (for the period from February 2010 - May 2010).

The last meeting was tabled after the item "Internship".

== 2009-11-03 (F2f in Orvieto) ==

The meeting ran through the AIs from the previous meeting as follows:

# Action Items from previous meeting (text of AI ''in italics'')
## Budget ''Louis: will send list of events to plan the marketing budget shortly'' - complete
## Trademark ''LSP (and ST) to provide to CC members offlist the proposal for voting then with comments on list: review by the cc (by November 4) and then start discussion on discuss@'' - Proposals had been put to Sun and Debian trademark folks. US trademark law requires trademark owners to quality control and monitor usage of trademarks. Agreement with Debian looks possible on name usage, but not on logo (about box and splash screen). Usage of name would be restricted to binaries built from the community repository (with patches). Need to come up with a proposal which allows free usage for "Download OOo" buttons and 'click through' mechanism to approve use on CD cases etc. Note that changing the logo (OOoCon session) would require registering a new trademark. Need also to consider the case of current practice within the community - e.g. annual OOoCon logos, "Cento Milioni" logo, etc. '''New AI: ST to take back to trademark list'''
## Elections ''Louis announce elections October 9 or 10 / aim: elections finished before the OOoCon'' - underway
## Internship ''Cor (et all): Continue on the preparations / Try to have more clear in 3rd week of October (big Education event in Toronto) / Louis and Matthias: working on suport (where neccesary) from project leads / Louis: contacting Seneca to organise support for them / Louis: to send to contests@marketing update on Seneca College, China (Tsinghua) and others for internship and mentoring'' - Louis to meet Seneca. Agreed that training in core OOo development is too high a barrier for first degree students - should look instead at extensions etc. Japanese IPA group want to send a developer to Hamburg to learn how to code a fix to a local font problem. Resource constraints in Sun mean there is no-one currently available. If Community funded a backfill could that release a core developer? Stefan recommends marketing activity should be directed at attracting extension developers rather than core. '''AI: Martin to put together a proposal for hiring a technical writer to document getting started on OOo development'''. Agreed to continue with "Winter of Code" - '''AI: Cor to own and cry for help if required'''.
## Distribution infrastructure (Bouncer) ''Wait for results of testing (prepared by Florian)'' - MirrorBrain looks like a good replacement for Bouncer but MI needs sorting. '''AI: John to talk to Florian to see if we should hire someone to develop the MI'''
## l10n infrastructure (Pootle) ''Wait for nagios a.o. monitoring results'' - availability of 85% is not acceptable. Hamburg now responsible. Pootle version upgrade imminent, but questions raised over long term viability of Pootle. To address issues, agreed: do a version upgrade; if necessary 'throw hardware at it' '''AI: Stefan'''; find better tool that is a closer fit (Launchpad? - or possibly a new project starting off to create a new Pootle?).
## Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC ''Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list'' - carry forward
## Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects ''Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting'' - carry forward
## Meeting at OOoCon 2009 - complete
## OOoCon 2009 ''Schedule a CC Q&A'' - complete
## Budget 2010 ''Start budgeting (planning spending money) for the next year before the OOoCon by mail'' - Annual Euro 100,000 budget should be sustainable based on current levels of income from inidivual contributions. '''AI: all budget holders to submit their requests for a share of this 100k'''.

== 2009-10-22 ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===
# List of decisions and AI's of [[Community_Council/Minutes#Minutes_of_Meetings | previous meeting]] for approval
# Action items - from previous meeting(s)
## Budget
### Louis: continue on list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals (for marketing budget primirarly)
## Trademark
### Stefan et al: in process with progess among stakeholders
### then with comments on list: review by the cc (by November 4) and then start discussion on discuss@
## Elections
### Louis announce elections October 9 or 10
### aim: elections finished before the OOoCon
## OpenOffice.org Internship
### Cor (et all): Continue on the preparations,
### Try to have more clear in 3rd week of October (big Education event in Toronto)
### Louis and Matthias: working on suport (where neccesary) from project leads
### Louis: contacting Seneca to organise support for them
### Louis: to send to contests@marketing update on Seneca College, China (Tsinghua) and others for internship and mentoring
## Distribution infrastructure
### Wait for results of testing (pepared by Florian)
## l10n infrastructure
### Wait for nagios a.o. monitoring results
## Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
### Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
## Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
### Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting
## Meeting at OOoCon 2009
### compile an agenda on the mail list and also advertise the meeting date and agenda options to project leads
### extended meeting on Tuesday evening
## OOoCon 2009
### Schedule a CC Q&A
## Budget 2010
### Start budgeting (planning spending money) for the next year before the OOoCon by mail
# Council coordinator
## Start for Stefan in this position
## choosing his successor (for the period from February 2010 - May 2010).
# ..

=== Decisions made ===
(specific topics that do not return in the AI's)
# Elections CC: late nominees have to wait for the next elections, that will come really soon after current elections

=== Ideas to keep in mind for nearby future ===
# CC meeting at OOoCon
## f2f meeting with the major sponsors at OOoCon to discuss about the project status
## or presentation off cc to major stakeholders
# Communicating and deciding in the CC
## Do we need a reply on a proposal/question from each member, or do we say: no reply is OK/agree?
# make "parnership" a new agenda item (spin off from work on certification)

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20091022]]

=== AI's ===
# Budget
## Louis: will send list of events to plan the marketing budget shortly.
# Trademark
## LSP (and ST) to provide to CC members offlist the proposal for voting
## then with comments on list: review by the cc (by November 4) and then start discussion on discuss@
# Elections
## elections proceed as scheduled
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## Cor (et all): Continue on the preparations,
## Try to have more clear in 3rd week of October (big Education event in Toronto)
## Louis and Matthias: working on suport (where neccesary) from project leads
## Cor will explain why that was necessary
## Louis: contacting Seneca to organise support for them
## Louis: to send to contests@marketing update on Seneca College, China (Tsinghua) and others for internship and mentoring
# Distribution infrastructure
## Wait for results of testing (pepared by Florian)
# l10n infrastructure
## Wait for nagios a.o. monitoring results
# Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
## Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
# Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
## Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting
# Meetings at OOoCon 2009
## compile an agenda on the mail list and also advertise the meeting date and agenda (Tuesday afternoon) options to project leads
## extended council meeting for on Tuesday evening
## Q&A with the council on ..
# Budget 2010
## MHU: Send first proposal for budget before the OOoCon by mail

== 2009-10-08 ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===

# List of decisions and AI's of [[Community_Council/Minutes#Minutes_of_Meetings | previous meeting]] for approval
# Action items - from previous meeting(s)
## Budget
### Louis: working on list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals (for marketing budget primarily)
## Trademark
### Stefan et al: in process with progess among stakeholders
### then with comments on list: review by the cc (sometime early September) and then start discussion on discuss@
## Elections
### Louis and Matthias work on the elections
### aim: elections conceived for early September
## OpenOffice.org Internship
### Cor (et all): Continue on the preparations
### Louis and Matthias: working on suport (where neccesary) from project leads
### Louis: contacting Seneca to organise support for them
### Louis: to send to contests@marketing update on Seneca College, China (Tsinghua) and others for internship and mentoring
## L10n infrastructure
### Wait for results of testing (pepared by Florian)
## OpenOffice.org Certification
### Cor: close voting this week, so ping Pavel and his deputy
### while discussing, work on building stones for other (requests for) partnerships
## Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
### Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
## Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
### Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting
# Council Meeting at the OOoCon
## Our agenda
# OOoCon 2009
## Update
# Budget 2009
## Idea/request for Dev-budget
## l10n infrastructure - see mail Stefan
## Issue with taxes from past years cleared up?
# Budget 2010
## Start planning spending money for the next year asap.
# Council coordinator
## On 2009-05-28 we dicided to vote for a council coordinator in 4 months, for the time from February 2010 - May 2010.
## And for Stefan to be in from October 2009 - January 2010 (provided his boss agrees)
# ...

=== Decisions made ===
(specific topics that do not return in the AI's)

=== Ideas to keep in mind for nearby future ===
# CC meeting at OOoCon
## f2f meeting with the major sponsors at OOoCon to discuss about the project status
## or presentation off cc to major stakeholders
# Communicating and deciding in the CC
## Do we need a reply on a proposal/question from each member, or do we say: no reply is OK/agree?
# make "parnership" a new agenda item (spin off from work on certification)

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20091008]]

=== AI's ===
# Budget
## Louis: continue on list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals (for marketing budget primarily)
# Trademark
## Stefan et al: in process with progess among stakeholders
## then with comments on list: review by the cc (by November 4) and then start discussion on discuss@
# Elections
## Louis announce elections October 9 or 10
## aim: elections finished before the OOoCon
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## Cor (et all): Continue on the preparations,
## Try to have more clear in 3rd week of October (big Education event in Toronto)
## Louis and Matthias: working on suport (where neccesary) from project leads
## Louis: contacting Seneca to organise support for them
## Louis: to send to contests@marketing update on Seneca College, China (Tsinghua) and others for internship and mentoring
# Distribution infrastructure
## Wait for results of testing (pepared by Florian)
# l10n infrastructure
## Wait for nagios a.o. monitoring results
# Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
## Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
# Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
## Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting
# Meeting at OOoCon 2009
## compile an agenda on the mail list and also advertise the meeting date and agenda options to project leads
## extended meeting on Tuesday evening
# OOoCon 2009
## Schedule a CC Q&A
# Budget 2010
## Start budgeting (planning spending money) for the next year before the OOoCon by mail

== 2009-09-24 ==

Was not really a meeting.
Agenda of that meeting shifted to the next meeting.

== 2009-08-20 ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===

# List of decisions and AI's of [[Community_Council/Minutes#Minutes_of_Meetings | previous meeting]] for approval
# Action items - from previous meeting(s)
## Budget
### Louis: use marcon list and post to wiki list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals
## Trademark
### Stefan et all: discuss with Debian (09-07-10) and give feed back
### then with comments on list: review by the cc , and then start discussion on discuss@
## Elections
### Thalion72 (and mhu is going to help) to send to louis (and jpmcc) proposal for elections announcement for editing, writing, etc. (around May 30)
### Louis: ping André ..
## OpenOffice.org Internship
### Cor (et all): Start of the public process (announcement etc.) asap
### Louis: to send to contests@marketing update on Seneca College, China (Tsinghua) and others for internship and mentoring
## L10n infrastructure
### André: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839 , and discuss with Florian
### (See remarks in the log from cloph)
### Louis: ping André ..
## OpenOffice.org Certification
### all: continue discussion with Alexandro and Evan via mail list
### goal is to come to decission asap
### while discussing, work on building stones for other (requests for) partnerships
## Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
### Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
## Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
### Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting
## Schedule for next meetings
### Cor: continue on this via mail
# OOoCon 2009
## Update
# Budget
## Idea/request for Dev-budget
## l10n infrastructure - see mail Stefan
## Issue with taxes from past years cleared up?
# ...

=== Decisions made ===

=== Ideas to keep in mind for nearby future ===
# CC meeting at OOoCon
## f2f meeting with the major sponsors at OOoCon to discuss about the project status
## or presentation off cc to major stakeholders
# Communicating and deciding in the CC
## Do we need a reply on a proposal/question from each member, or do we say: no reply is OK/agree?

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20090820]]

=== AI's ===
# Budget
## Louis: working on list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals (for marketing budget primirarly)
# Trademark
## Stefan et al: in process with progess among stakeholders
## then with comments on list: review by the cc (sometime early September) and then start discussion on discuss@
# Elections
## Louis and Matthias work on the elections
## aim: elections conceived for early September
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## Cor (et all): Continue on the preparations
## Louis and Matthias: working on suport (where neccesary) from project leads
## Louis: contacting Seneca to organise support for them
## Louis: to send to contests@marketing update on Seneca College, China (Tsinghua) and others for internship and mentoring
# L10n infrastructure
## Wait for results of testing (pepared by Florian)
# OpenOffice.org Certification
## Cor: close voting this week, so ping Pavel and his deputy
## while discussing, work on building stones for other (requests for) partnerships
# Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
## Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
# Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
## Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting

== 2009-07-09 ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===

# List of decisions and AI's of [[Community_Council/Minutes#Minutes_of_Meetings | previous meeting ]] for approval
# Action items - from previous meeting(s)
## Budget
### Louis: use marcon list and post to wiki list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals
## Trademark
### Stefan: discuss the item with Debian and give feed back
### then with comments on list: review by the cc , and then start discussion on discuss@
### update
## Elections
### Thalion72 (and mhu is goning to help) to send to louis (and jpmcc) proposal for elections announcement for editing, writing, etc. (around May 30)
### update
## OpenOffice.org Internship
### Cor (et all): Start of the public process (announcement etc.) asap
### update
## L10n infrastructure
### André: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839 , and discuss with Florian
### (See remarks in the log from cloph)
## OpenOffice.org Certification
### all: continue discussion via mail wthin next day's
### goal is to come to decission asap
### update
## Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
### Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
## Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
### Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting
## Schedule for next meetings
### Cor: continue on this via mail
# OOoCon 2009
## Update
## Any special preparations AFA-the CC-IC ?

=== Decisions made ===

=== Ideas to keep in mind for nearby future ===
# CC meeting at OOoCon
## f2f meeting with the major sponsors at OOoCon to discuss about the project status
## or presentation off cc to major stakeholders
# Communicating and deciding in the CC
## Do we need a reply on a proposal/question from each member, or do we say: no reply is OK/agree?

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20090709]]

=== AI's ===
# Budget
## Louis: use marcon list and post to wiki list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals
# Trademark
## Stefan et all: discuss with Debian (09-07-10) and give feed back
## then with comments on list: review by the cc , and then start discussion on discuss@
# Elections
## Thalion72 (and mhu is goning to help) to send to louis (and jpmcc) proposal for elections announcement for editing, writing, etc. (around May 30)
## Louis: ping André ..
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## Cor (et all): Start of the public process (announcement etc.) asap
## Louis: to send to contests@marketing update on Seneca College, China (Tsinghua) and others for internship and mentoring
# L10n infrastructure
## André: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839 , and discuss with Florian
## (See remarks in the log from cloph)
## Louis: ping André ..
# OpenOffice.org Certification
## all: continue discussion with Alexandro and Evan via mail list
## goal is to come to decission asap
## while discussing, work on building stones for other (requests for) partnerships
# Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
## Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
# Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
## Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting
# Schedule for next meetings
## Cor: continue on this via mail

== 2009-06-25 ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===

# List of decisions and AI's of [[Community_Council/Minutes#Minutes_of_Meetings | previous meeting ]] for approval
# Action items - from previous meeting(s)
## Budget
### Louis: use marcon list and post to wiki list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals
## Trademark
### Stefan: gather feedback from Sun legal people, tries within one week, but asks for ETA first
### Cor: Ask Bernard for editing and Alex for his legal opinion
### then one week for review by the cc , and then start discussion on discuss@
## Elections
### Thalion72 to send to louis (and jpmcc) proposal for elections announcement for editing, writing, etc. (around May 30)
## OpenOffice.org Internship
### Cor (et all): Start of the public process (announcement etc.) in week 25
### Update
## L10n infrastructure
### André: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839 , and discuss with Florian
## Project improvement page
### André: try to help discussion on project leads list
## OpenOffice.org Certification
### Cor: continue discussion via mail shortly
### Update
## Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
### Cor: ask Louis for final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
## Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
### Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting
## Schedule for next meetings
### Cor: pick this up via mail
# Future with oracle, do we have ideas/whishes ..
## See this [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2125 mail]
# ...

=== Decisions made ===
# continue with OOo Internship, although it might be late for some countries / possible participants

=== Ideas to keep in mind for nearby future ===
# CC meeting at OOoCon
## f2f meeting with the major sponsors at OOoCon to discuss about the project status
## or presentation off cc to major stakeholders
# Communicating and deciding in the CC
## Do we need a reply on a proposal/question from each member, or do we say: no reply is OK/agree?

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20090625]]

=== AI's ===

# Budget
## Louis: use marcon list and post to wiki list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals
# Trademark
## Stefan: discuss the item with Debian and give feed back
## then with comments on list: review by the cc , and then start discussion on discuss@
# Elections
## Thalion72 (and mhu is goning to help) to send to louis (and jpmcc) proposal for elections announcement for editing, writing, etc. (around May 30)
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## Cor (et all): Start of the public process (announcement etc.) asap
# L10n infrastructure
## André: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839 , and discuss with Florian
## (See remarks in the log from cloph)
# OpenOffice.org Certification
## all: continue discussion via mail wthin next day's
## goal is to come to decission asap
# Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
## Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
# Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
## Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting
# Schedule for next meetings
## Cor: continue on this via mail

== 2009-06-11 ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===

# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Action items - from previous meeting(s)
## Budget
### Louis: use marcon list and post to wiki list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals
## Trademark
### discussion to continue on dicsuss@ after June 11th
## Elections
### Thalion72 to send to louis (and jpmcc) proposal for elections announcement for editing, writing, etc. (around May 30)
### Update
## OpenOffice.org Internship
### Stefan to suggest the budget for the internship program as suggested by the proposal
### Update
## L10n infrastructure
### Stefan, André, Cor: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839
## Project improvement page
### Cor: ping Louis to mail project leads
## OpenOffice.org Certification
### Louis: to sent the old plan just as reminder what we had already done
### Cor: ask Alexandro and Evan for materials, a business plan, and ask if some financial support can help with that
### Update
## Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
### louis_to, stx12, Thalion72: with louis_to to come up with initial draft, stx12 with steps for retirement/removal/ and Thalion72 to reivew and edit as needed
# Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
## formalise the practise to delegate confirmation of Incubator project to project_leads@ and for native language projects to leads of NLC.
# Schedule for next meetings
## Only one more appointment left: June 26
## Shall we add another month, or is July too much occupied by vacations ?

=== Decisions made ===

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20090611]]

=== AI's ===

# Budget
## Louis: use marcon list and post to wiki list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals
# Trademark
## Stefan: gather feedback from Sun legal people, tries within one week, but asks for ETA first
## Cor: Ask Bernard for editing and Alex for his legal opinion
## then one week for review by the cc , and then start discussion on discuss@
# Elections
## Thalion72 to send to louis (and jpmcc) proposal for elections announcement for editing, writing, etc. (around May 30)
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## Cor (et all): Start of the public process (announcement etc.) in week 25
# L10n infrastructure
## André: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839 , and discuss with Florian
# Project improvement page
## André: try to help discussion on project leads list
# OpenOffice.org Certification
## Cor: continue discussion via mail shortly
# Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
## Cor: ask Louis for final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
# Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
## Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting
# Schedule for next meetings
## Cor: pick this up via mail

== 2009-05-28 ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===

# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Action items - from previous meeting(s)
## Budget
### Matthias, André and Cor agreed on a meeting regarding budget issues for next monday.
### Louis: again ping, to get estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
## Trademark
### Update after the renewed discussion on tm@ooo
## Elections
### ...
## OpenOffice.org Internship
### Update
## L10n infrastructure
### Stefan, André, Cor: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839
## Project improvement page
### Cor: add some content, then ping Louis to mail project leads
## proposal council coordinator
### Cor: ask votes of members not present at the meeting
# OpenOffice.org Certification
## Review [[Education/Certification/Petition| the petition]] for endorsement.
# Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
## formalise the practise to delegate confirmation of Incubator project to project_leads@ and for native language projects to leads of NLC.

=== Minutes ===
TBD

=== Decisions made ===
# Trademark
## cc decides in two weeks on the trademark proposal, then discussion brought to dicsuss@
# council coordinator
## [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2090 proposal] approved: Cor is the first one in this role, then Stefan, and after 4 months we already vote for the third period.
# Budget
## Waiting for outcome of taxes, then more clear budgetting
(see log)

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20090528]]

=== AI's ===

# Budget
## Louis: use marcon list and post to wiki list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals
# Trademark
## discussion to continue on dicsuss@ after June 11th
# Elections
## Thalion72 to send to louis (and jpmcc) proposal for elections announcement for editing, writing, etc. (around May 30)
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## Stefan to suggest the budget for the internship program as suggested by the proposal
# L10n infrastructure
## Stefan, André, Cor: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839
# Project improvement page
## Cor: ping Louis to mail project leads
# OpenOffice.org Certification
## Louis: to sent the old plan just as reminder what we had already done
## Cor: ask Alexandro and Evan for materials, a business plan (suggested content in log) and ask if some financial support can help with that.
# Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
## louis_to, stx12, Thalion72: with louis_to to come up with initial draft, stx12 with steps for retirement/removal/ and Thalion72 to reivew and edit as needed

== 2009-05-14 ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===

# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Action items
## Budget
### Louis: schedule a conference call with CC members regarding budget issues
### Matthias: more clear on situation wrt taxes to pay?
### Louis: Send and gather estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
## Trademark policy
### Do we know by now why we need/want it
## Elections
### in preparation - see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/BrowseList?list=discuss&by=thread&from=2228762 mailing list]
### status of [[Community_Council/Items/Election_Process_Proposal]]
### approve removal of utilities project
### approve removal of odftoolkit project
## L10n infrastructure
### More news from discussion?
## Project improvement page
### Cor add some content, then ping Louis to mail project leads
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## (should be starting soon)
# Proposal for role of council coordinator
## ( see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/BrowseList?list=discuss&by=thread&from=2222504 mail list] )
## ...

=== Minutes ===
TBD

=== Decisions made ===

# the accepted project utilities has been merged into framework, and thus no longer a separate accepted project
# odftoolkit, now a separate project outside OOo, and thus no longer a separate incubator projects
# Community_Council/Items/Election_Process_Proposal accepted as final

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20090514]]

=== AI's ===
# Budget
## Matthias, André and Cor agreed on a meeting regarding budget issues for next monday.
## Louis: again ping, to get estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
# Trademark
## Update after the renewed discussion on tm@ooo
# Elections
## ...
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## Update
# L10n infrastructure
## Stefan, André, Cor: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839
# Project improvement page
## Cor: add some content, then ping Louis to mail project leads
# proposal council coordinator
## Cor: ask votes of members not present at the meeting

== 2009-04-30 ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===
# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Action items
## Budget
### Louis: schedule a conference call with CC members for next week regarding budget issues
### Matthias: money on account and estimates for incomes and taxes to pay
### Louis: Send estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
## SPI - update
## Trademark
### Update
## Louis, André: elections draft announcement + schedule
## L10n infrastructure
## Cor: project improvement page: further clarification
## All: project improvement page: input for content and links
## ..
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## Discussion started on contests@marketing.openoffice.org
## last time, marketing was the weekest point
## idea is that funding comes from marketing and development budget
## any suggestions / whishes from the cc at this moment
# Proposal for role of council coordinator
## see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2000 mail list]
## discussion
## to go or not to go
# Growing the project
## ...
# Guidelines for bundling extensions
:: [http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=100836 issue 100836] requests the removal of the writer2latex extension from OOo 3.1 (raised as showstopper)
:: reason was given in [http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=100744 issue 100744] as "According to our guidelines for bundling extensions we cannot bundle extensions which are not covered by the guidelines to contribute (meaning SCA)."
:: Question to the council: where are those guidelines, who approved these guidelines at what time?

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20090430]]

=== AI's ===

# Budget
## Louis: schedule a conference call with CC members regarding budget issues
## Matthias: more clear on situation wrt taxes to pay?
## Louis: Send and gather estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
# Trademark policy
## Do we know by now why we need/want it
# Elections
## Running ?
# L10n infrastructure
## More news from discussion?
# Project improvement page
## Cor add some content, then ping Louis to mail project leads

=== Notes ===
Important info / discussion, not coming back as AI for the nextmeeting

* SPI; info about procedures / position / possibility to improve (when we want to invest time)

=== Minutes ===

TBD

== 2009-04-09==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===
# L10n builds distribution over the network, see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?listName=discuss&msgNo=1986 Rafaella mail]
## what can we do to support
## ..
# Growing the project
## see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1999 mail list]
## discussion
## to go or not to go
# Proposal for role of council coordinator
## see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2000 mail list]
## discussion
## to go or not to go
# Guidelines for bundling extensions
:: [http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=100836 issue 100836] requests the removal of the writer2latex extension from OOo 3.1 (raised as showstopper)
:: reason was given in [http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=100744 issue 100744] as "According to our guidelines for bundling extensions we cannot bundle extensions which are not covered by the guidelines to contribute (meaning SCA)."
:: Question to the council: where are those guidelines, who approved these guidelines at what time?
# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Action items
## Budget
### Louis: schedule a conference call with CC members for next week regarding budget issues
### Matthias: money on account and estimates for incomes and taxes to pay
### Louis: Send estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
## SPI - update
## Trademark
### Louis to review with André and John trademark proposals; also to revisit the list (done)
### Update
## Louis, André: elections draft announcement + schedule
## Cor to send to CC list proposals on CC function, structure and community growth (both done)

=== log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20090409]]

=== AI's ===
# Budget
## Louis: schedule a conference call with CC members for next week regarding budget issues
## Matthias: money on account and estimates for incomes and taxes to pay
## Louis: Send estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
# SPI - update
# Trademark
## Update
# Louis, André: elections draft announcement + schedule
# L10n infrastructure
# Cor: further discussion on proposal council coordinator via mail
# Cor: project improvement page: further clarification
# All: project improvement page: input for content and links

=== Minutes ===
TBD

== 2009-03-26==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===
# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Action items
## Elections ..
## New charter - done
## Budget precedures - done
## SPI
### mails to CC list ..
### info on donations page - done
## Trademark
## Growing the project
### info on wiki
### further ideas / discussion
# (2009) Budget
## Is it possible to work with yearly spending / income sheets etc. (see irc log)
# Proposal for role of council co-ordinator
## appoint a council coordinator every 4 to 5 months, who is responsible during that time for poking the colleagues ;-) etc.
### will improve overall cc-performance
### will help to share the feeling of really being part of it, of joined responsibility
# L10n builds distribution over the network, see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?listName=discuss&msgNo=1986 Rafaella mail]

=== log ===
* [[Community Council Log 20090326]]

=== AI's ===
Action items
# Budget
## Louis: schedule a conference call with CC members for next week regarding budget issues
## Matthias: money on account and estimates for incomes and taxes to pay
## Louis: Send estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
# SPI - update
# Trademark
## Louis to review with André and John trademark proposals; also to revisit the list (done)
## Update
# Louis, André: elections draft announcement + schedule
# Cor to send to CC list proposals on CC function, structure and community growth (both done)

=== Minutes ===
* Minutes TBD

== 2009-03-12 [[Community Council Notes 20090312]] ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===
# Minutes of previous meeting for approval and action items
# 2008 Financial Statement
# 2009 Budget
# Proposal for role of Community Co-ordinator (Cor)
# Update on Trademarks (Sophie)

=== Attendees ===
* Sophie Gautier (sophi)
* Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
* John McCreesh (jpmcc)
* Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
* André Schnabel (Thalion72)
* Stefan Taxhet (stx12)

** absent: Pavel Janik (paveljanik)
** absent: Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_)

=== Minutes ===
====New and Familiar Action Items====
* Elections: to commence this week with candidate nominations (Louis and Sophie).
*Announcements related to new charter and elections:
1. For new charter (André and John, ''completed'')
2. for nominations and election news, 3 days after the first announcement
* Trademark update (In lawyer's hands; update: Sophie, John, Louis): "in progress"
* Budget procedures clarification (John and probably others): ''in progress''
* LSP: Louis to re-send to CC list original emails related to SPI

===Summary/Minutes===
* Prior minutes were approved

===Old Action Items and actions and summary of discussion===
* André: review plebiscite on Community Council Proposal, ask the council to formally accept the proposal and publish as new version of the charter - complete - on agenda -''completed''
* John: make budget procedures more visible - ''completed''
* Sophie: prepare a short note about trademark proposal for the next meeting - complete -'' on agenda''
* Sophie: resend mail on SPI to the council list for comments - on agenda
* Louis / Matthias: get treasurers of Team OOo e.V. and SPI in contact - Action: Matthias to ping Louis for contact details - ''completed''
* Charter change (André) see email - Agreed Proposal formally accepted by Council, updated on Web, ''completed''.
Trademark (Sophie) draft_0.6 is ready, waiting comments from Marketing - Action: under legal review, ''continuing''
* Budget (Cor) we intended to decide on the budget for 2009. Is info available? Martin said this was scheduled for March.
* Budget (Cor) Proposal for clear routing of funding request: see email. Agreed. Action - Cor --''completed''
* Budget (Cor) Proposal to ask the l10n-team at Sun, if new hardware is badly needed see mail. Action Stefan to see if we can improve quality of service by spending CC budget on infrastructure: ''completed'':
** ST spoke with Rafallea Branconi and she "feels comfortable with the current setup with 2 pootle servers.'we will monitor these more closely to see whether they are as reliable as we need it. Sophie argued that language partition is inefficient and that we should partition by region instead. ''Discussion to continue''
* Budget (Sophie) SPI Info needed see mail – Action: Louis/Sophie contacted SPI and Louis is sending MHU notifications of donations; link to SPI repository on donation page (http://contributing.openoffice.org/donate.html). L/S attended last Board meeting as observers and will participate more actively to run for office. (Why SPI? Because makes it easier for US residents to pay via cheque or credit card.)
* Growing the project (Cor) see mail Action Cor to put on the wiki- completed: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Project_Improvements : ''Discussions to be conducted on list'' '''Action remaining: Louis to re-send to CC list original emails'''.
* This year's GSoC (John) Action Stefan to see if we are likely to be accepted- ''discussed''
* Proposals for OOoCon and the Community consultation process (John). John stated that after discussions on the lists, the Marketing Project had decided to change the process to award OOoCon one year in advance. This would give teams more time to prepare and to allow them to learn from the previous team. This means this year the MP will be awarding OOoCon 09 and 10, then next year OOoCon 11, etc. As time was short, John agreed to continue this conversation on the CC list. Action John--''completed''

== 2009-02-19 (IRC) ==

===Attendees===
* Sophie Gautier (sophi)
* Pavel Janik (paveljanik)
* Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_)
* Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
* John McCreesh (jpmcc)
* Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
* André Schnabel (Thalion72)
* Stefan Taxhet (stx12)

* missing:
** Louis Suarez-Potts (absent)

===Minutes===
16:45 Meeting opened
# Minutes of previous meeting - approved
# Action items
## André: review plebiscite on Community Council Proposal, ask the council to formally accept the proposal and publish as new version of the charter - complete - ''on agenda''
## John: make budget procedures more visible - ''complete''
## Cor: draft a proposal for a more clear workflow - ''on agenda''
## Sophie: prepare a short note about trademark proposal for the next meeting - complete - ''on agenda''
## Sophie: resend mail on SPI to the council list for comments - ''on agenda''
## Louis / Matthias: get treasurers of Team OOo e.V. and SPI in contact - '''Action''': Matthias to ping Louis for contact details
# Charter change (André) [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1944 see email] - '''Agreed''' Proposal formally accepted by Council
# Trademark (Sophie) draft_0.6 is ready, waiting comments from Marketing - '''Action''': John to review
# Budget (Cor) we intended to decide on the budget for 2009. Is info available? Martin said this was scheduled for March.
# Budget (Cor) Proposal for clear routing of funding request: [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1923 see email]. '''Agreed'''. '''Action''' - Cor to add to wiki
# Budget (Cor) Proposal to ask the l10n-team at Sun, if new hardware is badly needed [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1843 see mail]. '''Action''' Stefan to see if we can improve quality of service by spending CC budget on infrastructure
# Budget (Sophie) SPI Info needed [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1854 see mail] - already discussed
# Growing the project (Cor) [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1946 see mail] '''Action''' Cor to put on the wiki
# This year's [http://code.google.com/opensource/gsoc/2009/faqs.html GSoC] (John) '''Action''' Stefan to see if we are likely to be accepted
# [http://marketing.openoffice.org/ooocon2009/cfl/index.html Proposals for OOoCon] and the Community consultation process (John). John stated that after discussions on the lists, the Marketing Project had decided to change the process to award OOoCon one year in advance. This would give teams more time to prepare and to allow them to learn from the previous team. This means this year the MP will be awarding OOoCon 09 and 10, then next year OOoCon 11, etc. As time was short, John agreed to continue this conversation on the CC list. '''Action''' John
# AOB - none
17:49 UTC Meeting closed

==2009-01-22 (IRC)==

===Attendees===
* Sophie Gautier (sophi)
* Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_)
* Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
* Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
* André Schnabel (Thalion72)
* Stefan Taxhet (stx12)

* missing:
** Louis Suarez-Potts (excused)
** Pavel Janik

===New Action Items===

* André: review plebiscite on Community Council Proposal, ask the council to formally accept the proposal and publish as new version of the charter

* John: make budget procedures more visible
* Cor: draft a proposal for a more clear workflow

* Sophie: prepare a short note about trademark proposal for the next meeting

* Sophie: resend mail on SPI to the council list for comments
* Louis / Matthias: get treasurers of Team OOo e.V. and SPI in contact

===Agenda===

# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Approval of provisional budgets for 2009
# Endorsement of "Developer's Manifesto 2009"
# AOB

===Minutes===

* budget holders can start with the same budgets as for 2008. Budgets for 2009 will be reviewed end of Feb. (after Team OOo e.V. finished finanzial review, budged holders are asked to prepare a more detailed budget plan, if possible)

* a "Developer's Manifesto 2009" will be published on the OOo website, as porposed on the [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1922 council mailing list]

* Other business
** the new Charter Proposal has passed all steps that are necessary to become final. The results of the plebiscite need to be reviewed and the proposal needs to be published at the council website as new version of the charter.
:: AI for André: review plebiscite, ask the council to formally accept the proposal and publish as new version of the charter

:* André suggested to move the budget and funding procedures to the council website. Proposal was rejected, as the procedure is likely to be reworked.
:: AI for John: make budget procedures more visible
:: AI for Cor: draft a proposal for a more clear workflow

:* CorNouws asked what the status of the trademark proposal is
:: AI for Sophie: prepare a short note about trademark proposal for the next meeting

:* Sophie asked for more information about SPI
:: AI for Sophie: resend mail on SPI to the council list for comments
:: AI for Louis / Matthias: get treasurers of Team OOo e.V. and SPI in contact

=== Log ===
[[Community Council Log 20092201]]

== OLDER MEETINGS ... 2008 and before ==
See the next page:
[[Community_Council/Minutes_2008_and_older]]

[[Category:Community Council]]

Community Council/Minutes

2010-01-21T20:57:50Z

LouisSuarez:

=Minutes of Meetings=

== 2010-01-21 ==
=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_200100121]]

== 2009-12-17 ==

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20091217]]

=== AIs ===

# Budget '''Louis: prepare a wiki page with events'''.
# Trademark Policy ''ST to take back to trademark list'': ST indicates he'll start Friday discussions again; AI ''ST: add new CC members to list'': done.
# Elections: first cycle is finished. Next steps:
## ''Jürgen: Update council webpage'': done
## ''Louis: Notification to broader community about results'' (done)
## '''Louis: Initiate phase 2 of the new election for Martin, Pavel, John.''': put on hold until after holidays, viz., post 6 jan
## '''Louis: advertise public part at #ooocouncilpub in the beginning before next council meeting''': Louis suggest we do it for next meeting.
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## '''Martin to put together a proposal for hiring a technical writer to document getting started on OOo development.''': open
## '''AI: "Winter of Code"; Cor to own and cry for help if required.'''; list to be used is mentoring @ ooo: open
# Distribution infrastructure (Bouncer); '''John''': We are on target to use mirrorbrain for 3.2; Louis proposed '''AI: that the CC publicly thanks the volunteer mirrors on the release of 3.2 for 9 plus years of heroic work including and esp. osuosl.'''
# l10n infrastructure (Pootle): ''ST: Pootle version upgrade imminent beginnig 2010''; ''AI: Owner?: find better tool that is a closer fit, if necessary''; '''Cor is going to contact Andre.'''
# Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC. '''Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list - carry forward'''; see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2101] to be inforporated in http://native-lang.openoffice.org/#terminus and http://www.openoffice.org/about_us/protocols_proposing.html
# Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects. '''Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting - carry forward'''
# Budget 2010: ''AI: all budget holders to submit their requests for a share of this 100k''. See proposal from Matthias [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2324]; '''Vote on Matthias Proposal pending'''
# Council coordinator: choosing ST's successor (for the period from February 2010 - May 2010).
# '''Juergen: Prepare Agenda for F2F Meeting in Hamburg, February 4/5;'''
# Education Project to be discussed during f2f
# Move of Infrastucture to be presented during f2f

== 2009-11-26 ==

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20091126]]

=== AIs ===

# Budget ''Louis: will send list of events to plan the marketing budget shortly'': A provisional list was sent to list. New AI is '''Louis: prepare a wiki page with events'''.
# Trademark Policy ''ST to take back to trademark list'': no update; new AI ''ST: add new CC members to list''
# Elections: first cycle is finished. Next steps:
## ''Jürgen: Update council webpage''
## ''Louis: Notification to broader community about results'' (done)
## ''Louis: Initiate phase 2 of the new election''' for Martin, Pavel, John.''
## ''Louis: advertise public part at #ooocouncilpub in the beginning before next council meeting''
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## ''Martin to put together a proposal for hiring a technical writer to document getting started on OOo development.''
## ''AI: "Winter of Code"; Cor to own and cry for help if required.''; list to be used is mentoring @ ooo
# Distribution infrastructure (Bouncer); Wait for results of testing (prepared by Florian) - MirrorBrain looks like a good replacement for Bouncer but MI needs sorting. ''AI: John to talk to Florian to see if we should hire someone to develop the MI''
# l10n infrastructure (Pootle): ''ST: Pootle version upgrade imminent beginnig 2010''; ''AI: Owner?: find better tool that is a closer fit, if necessary''
# Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC. ''Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list - carry forward''
# Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects. ''Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting - carry forward''
# Budget 2010: ''AI: all budget holders to submit their requests for a share of this 100k''. See proposal from Matthias [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2324]
# Council coordinator: choosing ST's successor (for the period from February 2010 - May 2010).

The last meeting was tabled after the item "Internship".

== 2009-11-03 (F2f in Orvieto) ==

The meeting ran through the AIs from the previous meeting as follows:

# Action Items from previous meeting (text of AI ''in italics'')
## Budget ''Louis: will send list of events to plan the marketing budget shortly'' - complete
## Trademark ''LSP (and ST) to provide to CC members offlist the proposal for voting then with comments on list: review by the cc (by November 4) and then start discussion on discuss@'' - Proposals had been put to Sun and Debian trademark folks. US trademark law requires trademark owners to quality control and monitor usage of trademarks. Agreement with Debian looks possible on name usage, but not on logo (about box and splash screen). Usage of name would be restricted to binaries built from the community repository (with patches). Need to come up with a proposal which allows free usage for "Download OOo" buttons and 'click through' mechanism to approve use on CD cases etc. Note that changing the logo (OOoCon session) would require registering a new trademark. Need also to consider the case of current practice within the community - e.g. annual OOoCon logos, "Cento Milioni" logo, etc. '''New AI: ST to take back to trademark list'''
## Elections ''Louis announce elections October 9 or 10 / aim: elections finished before the OOoCon'' - underway
## Internship ''Cor (et all): Continue on the preparations / Try to have more clear in 3rd week of October (big Education event in Toronto) / Louis and Matthias: working on suport (where neccesary) from project leads / Louis: contacting Seneca to organise support for them / Louis: to send to contests@marketing update on Seneca College, China (Tsinghua) and others for internship and mentoring'' - Louis to meet Seneca. Agreed that training in core OOo development is too high a barrier for first degree students - should look instead at extensions etc. Japanese IPA group want to send a developer to Hamburg to learn how to code a fix to a local font problem. Resource constraints in Sun mean there is no-one currently available. If Community funded a backfill could that release a core developer? Stefan recommends marketing activity should be directed at attracting extension developers rather than core. '''AI: Martin to put together a proposal for hiring a technical writer to document getting started on OOo development'''. Agreed to continue with "Winter of Code" - '''AI: Cor to own and cry for help if required'''.
## Distribution infrastructure (Bouncer) ''Wait for results of testing (prepared by Florian)'' - MirrorBrain looks like a good replacement for Bouncer but MI needs sorting. '''AI: John to talk to Florian to see if we should hire someone to develop the MI'''
## l10n infrastructure (Pootle) ''Wait for nagios a.o. monitoring results'' - availability of 85% is not acceptable. Hamburg now responsible. Pootle version upgrade imminent, but questions raised over long term viability of Pootle. To address issues, agreed: do a version upgrade; if necessary 'throw hardware at it' '''AI: Stefan'''; find better tool that is a closer fit (Launchpad? - or possibly a new project starting off to create a new Pootle?).
## Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC ''Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list'' - carry forward
## Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects ''Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting'' - carry forward
## Meeting at OOoCon 2009 - complete
## OOoCon 2009 ''Schedule a CC Q&A'' - complete
## Budget 2010 ''Start budgeting (planning spending money) for the next year before the OOoCon by mail'' - Annual Euro 100,000 budget should be sustainable based on current levels of income from inidivual contributions. '''AI: all budget holders to submit their requests for a share of this 100k'''.

== 2009-10-22 ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===
# List of decisions and AI's of [[Community_Council/Minutes#Minutes_of_Meetings | previous meeting]] for approval
# Action items - from previous meeting(s)
## Budget
### Louis: continue on list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals (for marketing budget primirarly)
## Trademark
### Stefan et al: in process with progess among stakeholders
### then with comments on list: review by the cc (by November 4) and then start discussion on discuss@
## Elections
### Louis announce elections October 9 or 10
### aim: elections finished before the OOoCon
## OpenOffice.org Internship
### Cor (et all): Continue on the preparations,
### Try to have more clear in 3rd week of October (big Education event in Toronto)
### Louis and Matthias: working on suport (where neccesary) from project leads
### Louis: contacting Seneca to organise support for them
### Louis: to send to contests@marketing update on Seneca College, China (Tsinghua) and others for internship and mentoring
## Distribution infrastructure
### Wait for results of testing (pepared by Florian)
## l10n infrastructure
### Wait for nagios a.o. monitoring results
## Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
### Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
## Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
### Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting
## Meeting at OOoCon 2009
### compile an agenda on the mail list and also advertise the meeting date and agenda options to project leads
### extended meeting on Tuesday evening
## OOoCon 2009
### Schedule a CC Q&A
## Budget 2010
### Start budgeting (planning spending money) for the next year before the OOoCon by mail
# Council coordinator
## Start for Stefan in this position
## choosing his successor (for the period from February 2010 - May 2010).
# ..

=== Decisions made ===
(specific topics that do not return in the AI's)
# Elections CC: late nominees have to wait for the next elections, that will come really soon after current elections

=== Ideas to keep in mind for nearby future ===
# CC meeting at OOoCon
## f2f meeting with the major sponsors at OOoCon to discuss about the project status
## or presentation off cc to major stakeholders
# Communicating and deciding in the CC
## Do we need a reply on a proposal/question from each member, or do we say: no reply is OK/agree?
# make "parnership" a new agenda item (spin off from work on certification)

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20091022]]

=== AI's ===
# Budget
## Louis: will send list of events to plan the marketing budget shortly.
# Trademark
## LSP (and ST) to provide to CC members offlist the proposal for voting
## then with comments on list: review by the cc (by November 4) and then start discussion on discuss@
# Elections
## elections proceed as scheduled
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## Cor (et all): Continue on the preparations,
## Try to have more clear in 3rd week of October (big Education event in Toronto)
## Louis and Matthias: working on suport (where neccesary) from project leads
## Cor will explain why that was necessary
## Louis: contacting Seneca to organise support for them
## Louis: to send to contests@marketing update on Seneca College, China (Tsinghua) and others for internship and mentoring
# Distribution infrastructure
## Wait for results of testing (pepared by Florian)
# l10n infrastructure
## Wait for nagios a.o. monitoring results
# Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
## Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
# Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
## Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting
# Meetings at OOoCon 2009
## compile an agenda on the mail list and also advertise the meeting date and agenda (Tuesday afternoon) options to project leads
## extended council meeting for on Tuesday evening
## Q&A with the council on ..
# Budget 2010
## MHU: Send first proposal for budget before the OOoCon by mail

== 2009-10-08 ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===

# List of decisions and AI's of [[Community_Council/Minutes#Minutes_of_Meetings | previous meeting]] for approval
# Action items - from previous meeting(s)
## Budget
### Louis: working on list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals (for marketing budget primarily)
## Trademark
### Stefan et al: in process with progess among stakeholders
### then with comments on list: review by the cc (sometime early September) and then start discussion on discuss@
## Elections
### Louis and Matthias work on the elections
### aim: elections conceived for early September
## OpenOffice.org Internship
### Cor (et all): Continue on the preparations
### Louis and Matthias: working on suport (where neccesary) from project leads
### Louis: contacting Seneca to organise support for them
### Louis: to send to contests@marketing update on Seneca College, China (Tsinghua) and others for internship and mentoring
## L10n infrastructure
### Wait for results of testing (pepared by Florian)
## OpenOffice.org Certification
### Cor: close voting this week, so ping Pavel and his deputy
### while discussing, work on building stones for other (requests for) partnerships
## Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
### Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
## Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
### Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting
# Council Meeting at the OOoCon
## Our agenda
# OOoCon 2009
## Update
# Budget 2009
## Idea/request for Dev-budget
## l10n infrastructure - see mail Stefan
## Issue with taxes from past years cleared up?
# Budget 2010
## Start planning spending money for the next year asap.
# Council coordinator
## On 2009-05-28 we dicided to vote for a council coordinator in 4 months, for the time from February 2010 - May 2010.
## And for Stefan to be in from October 2009 - January 2010 (provided his boss agrees)
# ...

=== Decisions made ===
(specific topics that do not return in the AI's)

=== Ideas to keep in mind for nearby future ===
# CC meeting at OOoCon
## f2f meeting with the major sponsors at OOoCon to discuss about the project status
## or presentation off cc to major stakeholders
# Communicating and deciding in the CC
## Do we need a reply on a proposal/question from each member, or do we say: no reply is OK/agree?
# make "parnership" a new agenda item (spin off from work on certification)

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20091008]]

=== AI's ===
# Budget
## Louis: continue on list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals (for marketing budget primarily)
# Trademark
## Stefan et al: in process with progess among stakeholders
## then with comments on list: review by the cc (by November 4) and then start discussion on discuss@
# Elections
## Louis announce elections October 9 or 10
## aim: elections finished before the OOoCon
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## Cor (et all): Continue on the preparations,
## Try to have more clear in 3rd week of October (big Education event in Toronto)
## Louis and Matthias: working on suport (where neccesary) from project leads
## Louis: contacting Seneca to organise support for them
## Louis: to send to contests@marketing update on Seneca College, China (Tsinghua) and others for internship and mentoring
# Distribution infrastructure
## Wait for results of testing (pepared by Florian)
# l10n infrastructure
## Wait for nagios a.o. monitoring results
# Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
## Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
# Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
## Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting
# Meeting at OOoCon 2009
## compile an agenda on the mail list and also advertise the meeting date and agenda options to project leads
## extended meeting on Tuesday evening
# OOoCon 2009
## Schedule a CC Q&A
# Budget 2010
## Start budgeting (planning spending money) for the next year before the OOoCon by mail

== 2009-09-24 ==

Was not really a meeting.
Agenda of that meeting shifted to the next meeting.

== 2009-08-20 ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===

# List of decisions and AI's of [[Community_Council/Minutes#Minutes_of_Meetings | previous meeting]] for approval
# Action items - from previous meeting(s)
## Budget
### Louis: use marcon list and post to wiki list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals
## Trademark
### Stefan et all: discuss with Debian (09-07-10) and give feed back
### then with comments on list: review by the cc , and then start discussion on discuss@
## Elections
### Thalion72 (and mhu is going to help) to send to louis (and jpmcc) proposal for elections announcement for editing, writing, etc. (around May 30)
### Louis: ping André ..
## OpenOffice.org Internship
### Cor (et all): Start of the public process (announcement etc.) asap
### Louis: to send to contests@marketing update on Seneca College, China (Tsinghua) and others for internship and mentoring
## L10n infrastructure
### André: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839 , and discuss with Florian
### (See remarks in the log from cloph)
### Louis: ping André ..
## OpenOffice.org Certification
### all: continue discussion with Alexandro and Evan via mail list
### goal is to come to decission asap
### while discussing, work on building stones for other (requests for) partnerships
## Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
### Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
## Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
### Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting
## Schedule for next meetings
### Cor: continue on this via mail
# OOoCon 2009
## Update
# Budget
## Idea/request for Dev-budget
## l10n infrastructure - see mail Stefan
## Issue with taxes from past years cleared up?
# ...

=== Decisions made ===

=== Ideas to keep in mind for nearby future ===
# CC meeting at OOoCon
## f2f meeting with the major sponsors at OOoCon to discuss about the project status
## or presentation off cc to major stakeholders
# Communicating and deciding in the CC
## Do we need a reply on a proposal/question from each member, or do we say: no reply is OK/agree?

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20090820]]

=== AI's ===
# Budget
## Louis: working on list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals (for marketing budget primirarly)
# Trademark
## Stefan et al: in process with progess among stakeholders
## then with comments on list: review by the cc (sometime early September) and then start discussion on discuss@
# Elections
## Louis and Matthias work on the elections
## aim: elections conceived for early September
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## Cor (et all): Continue on the preparations
## Louis and Matthias: working on suport (where neccesary) from project leads
## Louis: contacting Seneca to organise support for them
## Louis: to send to contests@marketing update on Seneca College, China (Tsinghua) and others for internship and mentoring
# L10n infrastructure
## Wait for results of testing (pepared by Florian)
# OpenOffice.org Certification
## Cor: close voting this week, so ping Pavel and his deputy
## while discussing, work on building stones for other (requests for) partnerships
# Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
## Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
# Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
## Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting

== 2009-07-09 ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===

# List of decisions and AI's of [[Community_Council/Minutes#Minutes_of_Meetings | previous meeting ]] for approval
# Action items - from previous meeting(s)
## Budget
### Louis: use marcon list and post to wiki list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals
## Trademark
### Stefan: discuss the item with Debian and give feed back
### then with comments on list: review by the cc , and then start discussion on discuss@
### update
## Elections
### Thalion72 (and mhu is goning to help) to send to louis (and jpmcc) proposal for elections announcement for editing, writing, etc. (around May 30)
### update
## OpenOffice.org Internship
### Cor (et all): Start of the public process (announcement etc.) asap
### update
## L10n infrastructure
### André: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839 , and discuss with Florian
### (See remarks in the log from cloph)
## OpenOffice.org Certification
### all: continue discussion via mail wthin next day's
### goal is to come to decission asap
### update
## Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
### Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
## Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
### Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting
## Schedule for next meetings
### Cor: continue on this via mail
# OOoCon 2009
## Update
## Any special preparations AFA-the CC-IC ?

=== Decisions made ===

=== Ideas to keep in mind for nearby future ===
# CC meeting at OOoCon
## f2f meeting with the major sponsors at OOoCon to discuss about the project status
## or presentation off cc to major stakeholders
# Communicating and deciding in the CC
## Do we need a reply on a proposal/question from each member, or do we say: no reply is OK/agree?

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20090709]]

=== AI's ===
# Budget
## Louis: use marcon list and post to wiki list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals
# Trademark
## Stefan et all: discuss with Debian (09-07-10) and give feed back
## then with comments on list: review by the cc , and then start discussion on discuss@
# Elections
## Thalion72 (and mhu is goning to help) to send to louis (and jpmcc) proposal for elections announcement for editing, writing, etc. (around May 30)
## Louis: ping André ..
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## Cor (et all): Start of the public process (announcement etc.) asap
## Louis: to send to contests@marketing update on Seneca College, China (Tsinghua) and others for internship and mentoring
# L10n infrastructure
## André: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839 , and discuss with Florian
## (See remarks in the log from cloph)
## Louis: ping André ..
# OpenOffice.org Certification
## all: continue discussion with Alexandro and Evan via mail list
## goal is to come to decission asap
## while discussing, work on building stones for other (requests for) partnerships
# Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
## Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
# Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
## Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting
# Schedule for next meetings
## Cor: continue on this via mail

== 2009-06-25 ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===

# List of decisions and AI's of [[Community_Council/Minutes#Minutes_of_Meetings | previous meeting ]] for approval
# Action items - from previous meeting(s)
## Budget
### Louis: use marcon list and post to wiki list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals
## Trademark
### Stefan: gather feedback from Sun legal people, tries within one week, but asks for ETA first
### Cor: Ask Bernard for editing and Alex for his legal opinion
### then one week for review by the cc , and then start discussion on discuss@
## Elections
### Thalion72 to send to louis (and jpmcc) proposal for elections announcement for editing, writing, etc. (around May 30)
## OpenOffice.org Internship
### Cor (et all): Start of the public process (announcement etc.) in week 25
### Update
## L10n infrastructure
### André: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839 , and discuss with Florian
## Project improvement page
### André: try to help discussion on project leads list
## OpenOffice.org Certification
### Cor: continue discussion via mail shortly
### Update
## Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
### Cor: ask Louis for final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
## Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
### Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting
## Schedule for next meetings
### Cor: pick this up via mail
# Future with oracle, do we have ideas/whishes ..
## See this [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2125 mail]
# ...

=== Decisions made ===
# continue with OOo Internship, although it might be late for some countries / possible participants

=== Ideas to keep in mind for nearby future ===
# CC meeting at OOoCon
## f2f meeting with the major sponsors at OOoCon to discuss about the project status
## or presentation off cc to major stakeholders
# Communicating and deciding in the CC
## Do we need a reply on a proposal/question from each member, or do we say: no reply is OK/agree?

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20090625]]

=== AI's ===

# Budget
## Louis: use marcon list and post to wiki list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals
# Trademark
## Stefan: discuss the item with Debian and give feed back
## then with comments on list: review by the cc , and then start discussion on discuss@
# Elections
## Thalion72 (and mhu is goning to help) to send to louis (and jpmcc) proposal for elections announcement for editing, writing, etc. (around May 30)
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## Cor (et all): Start of the public process (announcement etc.) asap
# L10n infrastructure
## André: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839 , and discuss with Florian
## (See remarks in the log from cloph)
# OpenOffice.org Certification
## all: continue discussion via mail wthin next day's
## goal is to come to decission asap
# Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
## Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
# Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
## Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting
# Schedule for next meetings
## Cor: continue on this via mail

== 2009-06-11 ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===

# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Action items - from previous meeting(s)
## Budget
### Louis: use marcon list and post to wiki list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals
## Trademark
### discussion to continue on dicsuss@ after June 11th
## Elections
### Thalion72 to send to louis (and jpmcc) proposal for elections announcement for editing, writing, etc. (around May 30)
### Update
## OpenOffice.org Internship
### Stefan to suggest the budget for the internship program as suggested by the proposal
### Update
## L10n infrastructure
### Stefan, André, Cor: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839
## Project improvement page
### Cor: ping Louis to mail project leads
## OpenOffice.org Certification
### Louis: to sent the old plan just as reminder what we had already done
### Cor: ask Alexandro and Evan for materials, a business plan, and ask if some financial support can help with that
### Update
## Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
### louis_to, stx12, Thalion72: with louis_to to come up with initial draft, stx12 with steps for retirement/removal/ and Thalion72 to reivew and edit as needed
# Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
## formalise the practise to delegate confirmation of Incubator project to project_leads@ and for native language projects to leads of NLC.
# Schedule for next meetings
## Only one more appointment left: June 26
## Shall we add another month, or is July too much occupied by vacations ?

=== Decisions made ===

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20090611]]

=== AI's ===

# Budget
## Louis: use marcon list and post to wiki list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals
# Trademark
## Stefan: gather feedback from Sun legal people, tries within one week, but asks for ETA first
## Cor: Ask Bernard for editing and Alex for his legal opinion
## then one week for review by the cc , and then start discussion on discuss@
# Elections
## Thalion72 to send to louis (and jpmcc) proposal for elections announcement for editing, writing, etc. (around May 30)
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## Cor (et all): Start of the public process (announcement etc.) in week 25
# L10n infrastructure
## André: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839 , and discuss with Florian
# Project improvement page
## André: try to help discussion on project leads list
# OpenOffice.org Certification
## Cor: continue discussion via mail shortly
# Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
## Cor: ask Louis for final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
# Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
## Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting
# Schedule for next meetings
## Cor: pick this up via mail

== 2009-05-28 ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===

# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Action items - from previous meeting(s)
## Budget
### Matthias, André and Cor agreed on a meeting regarding budget issues for next monday.
### Louis: again ping, to get estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
## Trademark
### Update after the renewed discussion on tm@ooo
## Elections
### ...
## OpenOffice.org Internship
### Update
## L10n infrastructure
### Stefan, André, Cor: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839
## Project improvement page
### Cor: add some content, then ping Louis to mail project leads
## proposal council coordinator
### Cor: ask votes of members not present at the meeting
# OpenOffice.org Certification
## Review [[Education/Certification/Petition| the petition]] for endorsement.
# Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
## formalise the practise to delegate confirmation of Incubator project to project_leads@ and for native language projects to leads of NLC.

=== Minutes ===
TBD

=== Decisions made ===
# Trademark
## cc decides in two weeks on the trademark proposal, then discussion brought to dicsuss@
# council coordinator
## [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2090 proposal] approved: Cor is the first one in this role, then Stefan, and after 4 months we already vote for the third period.
# Budget
## Waiting for outcome of taxes, then more clear budgetting
(see log)

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20090528]]

=== AI's ===

# Budget
## Louis: use marcon list and post to wiki list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals
# Trademark
## discussion to continue on dicsuss@ after June 11th
# Elections
## Thalion72 to send to louis (and jpmcc) proposal for elections announcement for editing, writing, etc. (around May 30)
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## Stefan to suggest the budget for the internship program as suggested by the proposal
# L10n infrastructure
## Stefan, André, Cor: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839
# Project improvement page
## Cor: ping Louis to mail project leads
# OpenOffice.org Certification
## Louis: to sent the old plan just as reminder what we had already done
## Cor: ask Alexandro and Evan for materials, a business plan (suggested content in log) and ask if some financial support can help with that.
# Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
## louis_to, stx12, Thalion72: with louis_to to come up with initial draft, stx12 with steps for retirement/removal/ and Thalion72 to reivew and edit as needed

== 2009-05-14 ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===

# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Action items
## Budget
### Louis: schedule a conference call with CC members regarding budget issues
### Matthias: more clear on situation wrt taxes to pay?
### Louis: Send and gather estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
## Trademark policy
### Do we know by now why we need/want it
## Elections
### in preparation - see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/BrowseList?list=discuss&by=thread&from=2228762 mailing list]
### status of [[Community_Council/Items/Election_Process_Proposal]]
### approve removal of utilities project
### approve removal of odftoolkit project
## L10n infrastructure
### More news from discussion?
## Project improvement page
### Cor add some content, then ping Louis to mail project leads
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## (should be starting soon)
# Proposal for role of council coordinator
## ( see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/BrowseList?list=discuss&by=thread&from=2222504 mail list] )
## ...

=== Minutes ===
TBD

=== Decisions made ===

# the accepted project utilities has been merged into framework, and thus no longer a separate accepted project
# odftoolkit, now a separate project outside OOo, and thus no longer a separate incubator projects
# Community_Council/Items/Election_Process_Proposal accepted as final

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20090514]]

=== AI's ===
# Budget
## Matthias, André and Cor agreed on a meeting regarding budget issues for next monday.
## Louis: again ping, to get estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
# Trademark
## Update after the renewed discussion on tm@ooo
# Elections
## ...
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## Update
# L10n infrastructure
## Stefan, André, Cor: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839
# Project improvement page
## Cor: add some content, then ping Louis to mail project leads
# proposal council coordinator
## Cor: ask votes of members not present at the meeting

== 2009-04-30 ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===
# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Action items
## Budget
### Louis: schedule a conference call with CC members for next week regarding budget issues
### Matthias: money on account and estimates for incomes and taxes to pay
### Louis: Send estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
## SPI - update
## Trademark
### Update
## Louis, André: elections draft announcement + schedule
## L10n infrastructure
## Cor: project improvement page: further clarification
## All: project improvement page: input for content and links
## ..
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## Discussion started on contests@marketing.openoffice.org
## last time, marketing was the weekest point
## idea is that funding comes from marketing and development budget
## any suggestions / whishes from the cc at this moment
# Proposal for role of council coordinator
## see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2000 mail list]
## discussion
## to go or not to go
# Growing the project
## ...
# Guidelines for bundling extensions
:: [http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=100836 issue 100836] requests the removal of the writer2latex extension from OOo 3.1 (raised as showstopper)
:: reason was given in [http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=100744 issue 100744] as "According to our guidelines for bundling extensions we cannot bundle extensions which are not covered by the guidelines to contribute (meaning SCA)."
:: Question to the council: where are those guidelines, who approved these guidelines at what time?

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20090430]]

=== AI's ===

# Budget
## Louis: schedule a conference call with CC members regarding budget issues
## Matthias: more clear on situation wrt taxes to pay?
## Louis: Send and gather estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
# Trademark policy
## Do we know by now why we need/want it
# Elections
## Running ?
# L10n infrastructure
## More news from discussion?
# Project improvement page
## Cor add some content, then ping Louis to mail project leads

=== Notes ===
Important info / discussion, not coming back as AI for the nextmeeting

* SPI; info about procedures / position / possibility to improve (when we want to invest time)

=== Minutes ===

TBD

== 2009-04-09==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===
# L10n builds distribution over the network, see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?listName=discuss&msgNo=1986 Rafaella mail]
## what can we do to support
## ..
# Growing the project
## see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1999 mail list]
## discussion
## to go or not to go
# Proposal for role of council coordinator
## see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2000 mail list]
## discussion
## to go or not to go
# Guidelines for bundling extensions
:: [http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=100836 issue 100836] requests the removal of the writer2latex extension from OOo 3.1 (raised as showstopper)
:: reason was given in [http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=100744 issue 100744] as "According to our guidelines for bundling extensions we cannot bundle extensions which are not covered by the guidelines to contribute (meaning SCA)."
:: Question to the council: where are those guidelines, who approved these guidelines at what time?
# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Action items
## Budget
### Louis: schedule a conference call with CC members for next week regarding budget issues
### Matthias: money on account and estimates for incomes and taxes to pay
### Louis: Send estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
## SPI - update
## Trademark
### Louis to review with André and John trademark proposals; also to revisit the list (done)
### Update
## Louis, André: elections draft announcement + schedule
## Cor to send to CC list proposals on CC function, structure and community growth (both done)

=== log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20090409]]

=== AI's ===
# Budget
## Louis: schedule a conference call with CC members for next week regarding budget issues
## Matthias: money on account and estimates for incomes and taxes to pay
## Louis: Send estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
# SPI - update
# Trademark
## Update
# Louis, André: elections draft announcement + schedule
# L10n infrastructure
# Cor: further discussion on proposal council coordinator via mail
# Cor: project improvement page: further clarification
# All: project improvement page: input for content and links

=== Minutes ===
TBD

== 2009-03-26==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===
# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Action items
## Elections ..
## New charter - done
## Budget precedures - done
## SPI
### mails to CC list ..
### info on donations page - done
## Trademark
## Growing the project
### info on wiki
### further ideas / discussion
# (2009) Budget
## Is it possible to work with yearly spending / income sheets etc. (see irc log)
# Proposal for role of council co-ordinator
## appoint a council coordinator every 4 to 5 months, who is responsible during that time for poking the colleagues ;-) etc.
### will improve overall cc-performance
### will help to share the feeling of really being part of it, of joined responsibility
# L10n builds distribution over the network, see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?listName=discuss&msgNo=1986 Rafaella mail]

=== log ===
* [[Community Council Log 20090326]]

=== AI's ===
Action items
# Budget
## Louis: schedule a conference call with CC members for next week regarding budget issues
## Matthias: money on account and estimates for incomes and taxes to pay
## Louis: Send estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
# SPI - update
# Trademark
## Louis to review with André and John trademark proposals; also to revisit the list (done)
## Update
# Louis, André: elections draft announcement + schedule
# Cor to send to CC list proposals on CC function, structure and community growth (both done)

=== Minutes ===
* Minutes TBD

== 2009-03-12 [[Community Council Notes 20090312]] ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===
# Minutes of previous meeting for approval and action items
# 2008 Financial Statement
# 2009 Budget
# Proposal for role of Community Co-ordinator (Cor)
# Update on Trademarks (Sophie)

=== Attendees ===
* Sophie Gautier (sophi)
* Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
* John McCreesh (jpmcc)
* Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
* André Schnabel (Thalion72)
* Stefan Taxhet (stx12)

** absent: Pavel Janik (paveljanik)
** absent: Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_)

=== Minutes ===
====New and Familiar Action Items====
* Elections: to commence this week with candidate nominations (Louis and Sophie).
*Announcements related to new charter and elections:
1. For new charter (André and John, ''completed'')
2. for nominations and election news, 3 days after the first announcement
* Trademark update (In lawyer's hands; update: Sophie, John, Louis): "in progress"
* Budget procedures clarification (John and probably others): ''in progress''
* LSP: Louis to re-send to CC list original emails related to SPI

===Summary/Minutes===
* Prior minutes were approved

===Old Action Items and actions and summary of discussion===
* André: review plebiscite on Community Council Proposal, ask the council to formally accept the proposal and publish as new version of the charter - complete - on agenda -''completed''
* John: make budget procedures more visible - ''completed''
* Sophie: prepare a short note about trademark proposal for the next meeting - complete -'' on agenda''
* Sophie: resend mail on SPI to the council list for comments - on agenda
* Louis / Matthias: get treasurers of Team OOo e.V. and SPI in contact - Action: Matthias to ping Louis for contact details - ''completed''
* Charter change (André) see email - Agreed Proposal formally accepted by Council, updated on Web, ''completed''.
Trademark (Sophie) draft_0.6 is ready, waiting comments from Marketing - Action: under legal review, ''continuing''
* Budget (Cor) we intended to decide on the budget for 2009. Is info available? Martin said this was scheduled for March.
* Budget (Cor) Proposal for clear routing of funding request: see email. Agreed. Action - Cor --''completed''
* Budget (Cor) Proposal to ask the l10n-team at Sun, if new hardware is badly needed see mail. Action Stefan to see if we can improve quality of service by spending CC budget on infrastructure: ''completed'':
** ST spoke with Rafallea Branconi and she "feels comfortable with the current setup with 2 pootle servers.'we will monitor these more closely to see whether they are as reliable as we need it. Sophie argued that language partition is inefficient and that we should partition by region instead. ''Discussion to continue''
* Budget (Sophie) SPI Info needed see mail – Action: Louis/Sophie contacted SPI and Louis is sending MHU notifications of donations; link to SPI repository on donation page (http://contributing.openoffice.org/donate.html). L/S attended last Board meeting as observers and will participate more actively to run for office. (Why SPI? Because makes it easier for US residents to pay via cheque or credit card.)
* Growing the project (Cor) see mail Action Cor to put on the wiki- completed: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Project_Improvements : ''Discussions to be conducted on list'' '''Action remaining: Louis to re-send to CC list original emails'''.
* This year's GSoC (John) Action Stefan to see if we are likely to be accepted- ''discussed''
* Proposals for OOoCon and the Community consultation process (John). John stated that after discussions on the lists, the Marketing Project had decided to change the process to award OOoCon one year in advance. This would give teams more time to prepare and to allow them to learn from the previous team. This means this year the MP will be awarding OOoCon 09 and 10, then next year OOoCon 11, etc. As time was short, John agreed to continue this conversation on the CC list. Action John--''completed''

== 2009-02-19 (IRC) ==

===Attendees===
* Sophie Gautier (sophi)
* Pavel Janik (paveljanik)
* Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_)
* Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
* John McCreesh (jpmcc)
* Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
* André Schnabel (Thalion72)
* Stefan Taxhet (stx12)

* missing:
** Louis Suarez-Potts (absent)

===Minutes===
16:45 Meeting opened
# Minutes of previous meeting - approved
# Action items
## André: review plebiscite on Community Council Proposal, ask the council to formally accept the proposal and publish as new version of the charter - complete - ''on agenda''
## John: make budget procedures more visible - ''complete''
## Cor: draft a proposal for a more clear workflow - ''on agenda''
## Sophie: prepare a short note about trademark proposal for the next meeting - complete - ''on agenda''
## Sophie: resend mail on SPI to the council list for comments - ''on agenda''
## Louis / Matthias: get treasurers of Team OOo e.V. and SPI in contact - '''Action''': Matthias to ping Louis for contact details
# Charter change (André) [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1944 see email] - '''Agreed''' Proposal formally accepted by Council
# Trademark (Sophie) draft_0.6 is ready, waiting comments from Marketing - '''Action''': John to review
# Budget (Cor) we intended to decide on the budget for 2009. Is info available? Martin said this was scheduled for March.
# Budget (Cor) Proposal for clear routing of funding request: [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1923 see email]. '''Agreed'''. '''Action''' - Cor to add to wiki
# Budget (Cor) Proposal to ask the l10n-team at Sun, if new hardware is badly needed [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1843 see mail]. '''Action''' Stefan to see if we can improve quality of service by spending CC budget on infrastructure
# Budget (Sophie) SPI Info needed [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1854 see mail] - already discussed
# Growing the project (Cor) [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1946 see mail] '''Action''' Cor to put on the wiki
# This year's [http://code.google.com/opensource/gsoc/2009/faqs.html GSoC] (John) '''Action''' Stefan to see if we are likely to be accepted
# [http://marketing.openoffice.org/ooocon2009/cfl/index.html Proposals for OOoCon] and the Community consultation process (John). John stated that after discussions on the lists, the Marketing Project had decided to change the process to award OOoCon one year in advance. This would give teams more time to prepare and to allow them to learn from the previous team. This means this year the MP will be awarding OOoCon 09 and 10, then next year OOoCon 11, etc. As time was short, John agreed to continue this conversation on the CC list. '''Action''' John
# AOB - none
17:49 UTC Meeting closed

==2009-01-22 (IRC)==

===Attendees===
* Sophie Gautier (sophi)
* Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_)
* Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
* Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
* André Schnabel (Thalion72)
* Stefan Taxhet (stx12)

* missing:
** Louis Suarez-Potts (excused)
** Pavel Janik

===New Action Items===

* André: review plebiscite on Community Council Proposal, ask the council to formally accept the proposal and publish as new version of the charter

* John: make budget procedures more visible
* Cor: draft a proposal for a more clear workflow

* Sophie: prepare a short note about trademark proposal for the next meeting

* Sophie: resend mail on SPI to the council list for comments
* Louis / Matthias: get treasurers of Team OOo e.V. and SPI in contact

===Agenda===

# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Approval of provisional budgets for 2009
# Endorsement of "Developer's Manifesto 2009"
# AOB

===Minutes===

* budget holders can start with the same budgets as for 2008. Budgets for 2009 will be reviewed end of Feb. (after Team OOo e.V. finished finanzial review, budged holders are asked to prepare a more detailed budget plan, if possible)

* a "Developer's Manifesto 2009" will be published on the OOo website, as porposed on the [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1922 council mailing list]

* Other business
** the new Charter Proposal has passed all steps that are necessary to become final. The results of the plebiscite need to be reviewed and the proposal needs to be published at the council website as new version of the charter.
:: AI for André: review plebiscite, ask the council to formally accept the proposal and publish as new version of the charter

:* André suggested to move the budget and funding procedures to the council website. Proposal was rejected, as the procedure is likely to be reworked.
:: AI for John: make budget procedures more visible
:: AI for Cor: draft a proposal for a more clear workflow

:* CorNouws asked what the status of the trademark proposal is
:: AI for Sophie: prepare a short note about trademark proposal for the next meeting

:* Sophie asked for more information about SPI
:: AI for Sophie: resend mail on SPI to the council list for comments
:: AI for Louis / Matthias: get treasurers of Team OOo e.V. and SPI in contact

=== Log ===
[[Community Council Log 20092201]]

== OLDER MEETINGS ... 2008 and before ==
See the next page:
[[Community_Council/Minutes_2008_and_older]]

[[Category:Community Council]]

Community Council Log 20100121

2010-01-21T20:56:09Z

LouisSuarez: Created page with '== Community Council IRC Log 20100121 == '''Attendees''' * Christoph Noack (christoph_n) * Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_) * Matthias Huetsch (mhu) * Cor Nouws (CorNouws) * Loui…'

== Community Council IRC Log 20100121 ==

'''Attendees'''

* Christoph Noack (christoph_n)
* Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_)
* Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
* Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
* Louis Suarez-Potts (louis_to)
* Charles-H. Schulz (southerncross)
* John McCreesh (jpmcc)
* Stefan Taxhet (stx12)
* Juergen Schmidt (jsc)
* Pavel Janik (paveljanik)

* Time: 19:30 UTC (more or less)
<pre>
louis_to if we are ready... let's start
louis_to agenda:
louis_to http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/The_OpenOffice.org_Community_Council_Agenda
louis_to plesae review it
jsc done ;-)
louis_to then let's move
louis_to we agree with the AIs?
jsc fine for me
christoph_n yep
louis_to only vioice if no
louis_to so:
louis_to #1: I have not doine it yet: in progress
louis_to #2: ST, do you have an update?
jsc do you need help?
louis_to jsc: sure; ping the lists again, but I need only to put it to the wiki
stx12 no update beyond what you have seen on the list. draft is there; feedback from flo to be worked on
louis_to "flo"?
stx12 floeff = florian effenberger
CorNouws louis_to: "ping again" <> "need only" are opposite?
* louis_to is decoding
louis_to well, the issue is we have the basic ones, I just have to put it up to the wiki, but there are always more events, and the response returned was not entirely satisfactory
louis_to so they are not opposites, they are more orthogonal than anything
CorNouws Ah, better understand now :-)
louis_to my problem is one of distraction.
louis_to I was distracted from doing this by events here in Canada that needed my attention--the Ont. gov't may move to OOo but that requires a lot of effort---
louis_to but, jsc: if you want to help, just NAG me :-)
louis_to but on to #3:
jsc i will, it would be good to have it soon, see the mails on dev@marketing
jsc Question is who is alowed to add new events? Should they discussed first on some mailing list?
louis_to jsc: let's say anyone is but equally, not all such events will be funded
louis_to so you mean: which events are to be funded? That is for us (and mostly me, as main proponent) to determine
louis_to but I do want an array of knowledge there from which we can then select the best candidates
jsc yes and i think we need some kind of rules
louis_to and of course there ought to be some discussion on the lists, if only to evaluate the merits of a proposed date
louis_to jsc: rules can be established ad hoc after we do this
louis_to not prior. First let's get the data
jsc i mean basic rules for get funding
louis_to that is, ad hoc propter hoc
louis_to yes, and we have those already
louis_to I posted those a long time ago and would go back to them; as well, they were re-posted to budget, when it was discussed what events get budgeted
louis_to we have them
louis_to that's not the problem
louis_to summary of rules: is the event effective
*** jpmcc_ (n=chatzill@nat66.mia.three.co.uk) has joined the channel
louis_to but we do not need to discuss this here, do we?
louis_to hi jpmcc
louis_to we are moving on now to #3....
louis_to #3: elections
louis_to 3.1, 2, has been done; thanks
louis_to Louis: Initiate phase 2 of the new election for Martin, Pavel, John.: put on hold until after holidays, viz., post 6 jan
louis_to now is the time for it
louis_to so, with the Oracle news... it's totally irrelevant
louis_to and I suggest that we look to next week as the start of the new cycle
CorNouws Why?
louis_to how would it be relevant?
christoph_n (Sorry, I don't get it.)
CorNouws what have council elections to do with Oracle? Do not understand that yet.
louis_to They have nothing to do with Oracle. Wjhy do you think they do?
CorNouws You say "so, with the Oracle news... it's totally irrelevant" what do you mean with that?
louis_to since they do not, I propose next week we start the new cycle
jpmcc_ Hi, line dropped ...
*** jpmcc_ has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
louis_to is that okay with all? Stefan, do we have the material set up for that?
stx12 yes
louis_to and again, this is for Pavel, John, Martin's seats
louis_to thx
louis_to I would ask the three up for election to help find candidates if needed and also to promote the election and CC
*** jpmcc_ (n=chatzill@nat65.mia.three.co.uk) has joined the channel
louis_to jpmcc: I would ask the three up for election to help find candidates if needed and also to promote the election and CC
* _Nesshof_ is prepared
louis_to thx
* CorNouws Will John be on line long enough to say his connection dropped ..?
louis_to :-)
jpmcc_ I'll try :-)
louis_to as to 3.4, ouis: advertise public part at #ooocouncilpub in the beginning before next council meeting: Louis suggest we do it for next meeting.
louis_to well, that was for this meeting....
louis_to but it seems now that it will have to be for next
*** jpmcc__ (n=chatzill@nat66.mia.three.co.uk) has joined the channel
christoph_n dro... :-)
jpmcc__ Do I get three votes now I am logged in three times?
christoph_n You may get 3 AI :-)
louis_to yes
stx12 or three budgets
louis_to is the next meeting the F2F?
stx12 yes
louis_to It might be interesting to have a video feed on that for others to catch, or a youtube event
louis_to but we can discuss that, too
louis_to shall we move on to $4?
louis_to OpenOffice.org Internship
louis_to 1. Martin to put together a proposal for hiring a technical writer to document getting started on OOo development.: open
louis_to _Nesshof_?
_Nesshof_ in progress, not finished yet
_Nesshof_ sorry
_Nesshof_ .
stx12 AI: "Winter of Code"; Cor to own and cry for help if required; any update, cor?
CorNouws See my update on the mail: nothing to say, so skip this item now.
jsc i will join this project after the FOSDEM and will discuss it with Cor in Brussels (or Hamburg)
CorNouws Thanks, Jürgen, good idea!
stx12 good
louis_to btw, I'll be at fosdem, too, so we can include discussions of Seneca particiaption
jsc sounds good
louis_to and other related programs
louis_to but let's talk about it offlist or on prior...
stx12 5. Distribution infrastructure (Bouncer); John: We are on target to use mirrorbrain for 3.2;
louis_to tx
*** jpmcc_ has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
stx12 i think we are still on track
mhu louis_to: wrt seneca, can you please ask for a receipt / invoice for the money that I sent ?
louis_to yes, I hve invoice
louis_to and will ask for receipt
louis_to both
louis_to thx, btw
mhu okay, thanks
louis_to Fardad of Seneca has commenced work on future programs
louis_to and we need to arrange for him to visit, if needed, Hamburg
louis_to that can be part of the discussions in Brussels, yes?
louis_to shall we move on to #6?
stx12 5.b. but i don't know if the 3.2 announcement has the thanks to mirrors
jpmcc__ stx12 I'll check with floeff
stx12 thx
louis_to can we add it? it's been delayed...
jpmcc__ louis_to: I'm sure we can
louis_to thx
louis_to 6: l10n infrastructure (Pootle): ST: Pootle version upgrade imminent beginnig 2010; AI: Owner?: find better tool that is a closer fit, if necessary; Cor is going to contact Andre.
CorNouws I had contact with André some weeks ago, ... but forgotten the details (will pick it up again).
CorNouws Sorry ;-\
louis_to #6, then, "In progress"
stx12 ivo is going to start the update in the nexts days, now that he is back from vacation
*** jpmcc has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
* louis_to I wonder if this is the nature of things to come for jpmcc__, now that he has moved house...
CorNouws Yes, there was some connection with the update from the tools, quite obious proccess IIRC
louis_to ;on to 7?
louis_to Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC. Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list - carry forward; see [1] to be inforporated in http://native-lang.openoffice.org/#terminus and http://www.openoffice.org/about_us/protocols_proposing.html
louis_to ARGH
stx12 CorNouws: but there is still the question whether there is a better tool around than pootle. and we are looking for an owner of the evaluation
louis_to okay, will do this today
CorNouws stx12: OK..
jsc ...discussion on which mailing list?
stx12 jsc: see link in the minutes
stx12 http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2101
jsc ok
louis_to on to #8
louis_to ditto as for #7: ARGH
southerncross it should be noted that last week a project was being requested for cancellation
louis_to well, good :-)
southerncross http://tet.openoffice.org : its project lead himself filed an issue for cancellation.
louis_to one less to deal with :-)
* southerncross nods
* louis_to is being sardonic
southerncross sometimes it's more an acknoledgement of a void than a political decision
southerncross :)
louis_to :-)
louis_to on to #9...
louis_to Budget 2010: AI: all budget holders to submit their requests for a share of this 100k. See proposal from Matthias [2]; Vote on Matthias' Proposal pending
southerncross anyway
* mhu is currently working against the proposed budget
CorNouws An item for the Hamburg meeting ?!
mhu so, if you want to change the overall distribution, you should accelerate somewhat
mhu yes, we can discuss budget details f2f in Hamburg
CorNouws ( John, he means us ;-) )
mhu :-)
mhu but John should be satisfied, he got the largest cake :-)
CorNouws Marketing never gets enough, too much!!
CorNouws ;-)
christoph_n (Cake: Celebrating 10th anniversary. That sounds reasonable.)
mhu okay, I propose an agenda item for f2f in Hamburg: budget details
jpmcc__ Alas ...
CorNouws jpmcc__: alas what? all cake gone?
stx12 11. Council coordinator: choosing ST's successor
CorNouws or moving not finished in time :-\
_Nesshof_ if acceptable and if I'm not longer member of the council by the end of Feb., I volunteer for this role as a non council member
stx12 i'll pick one in hamburg; you should come nevertheless, please ;-)
southerncross :)
christoph_n Oh, I would have proposed me...
CorNouws _Nesshof_: very kind, however
stx12 hey, you huys are great
CorNouws the idea is that a council member does the job
CorNouws part of say 'education on the job'
_Nesshof_ CorNouws: I remember, that why I wrote, if acceptable !
jsc i have already volunteered
stx12 a deputy is eligeble too, or?
stx12 please queue at my door in hamburg...
CorNouws _Nesshof_: ah, sorry I din't got the immediately!
christoph_n Since I cannot help otherwise (at the moment) I may serve to poke everybody - if you like ;-)
christoph_n Poke! (That's easy...)
stx12 and it's a 3-4 month term only; so there is an opportunity for all of you
CorNouws no other candidates? then my +1 for christoph_n
louis_to :-)
* _Nesshof_ steps back
christoph_n That sounds if you like to have somebody else :-)
mhu +1 for christoph_n
jsc me too, no problem
_Nesshof_ +1 for christoph_n
southerncross +1 for christoph_n
* CorNouws _Nesshof_ may well be reelected, so can have his chance in May
jsc +1 for christoph_n
stx12 let's go with christoph_n then
jpmcc__ +1
louis_to +1
_Nesshof_ CorNouws: I will only do this if I'm not regular member of CC
CorNouws oh.. pls explain when we are in Hamburg, OK?
_Nesshof_ btw, also the release status meeting will be without member of the CC
stx12 so christoph_n will take this duty beginning in hamburg?
christoph_n If you like.
stx12 yes, please.
christoph_n Okay, thanks!
stx12 11. Juergen: Prepare Agenda for F2F Meeting in Hamburg, February 4/5;
jsc i have send you a list with collected items from different emails
louis_to thx
jsc for further discussion
louis_to btw, can you also remind people if they have not yet to send me a rough list of expenses?
louis_to I have rec'd some but not all
louis_to and you have hotels info., and others: most are staying at Junges
jpmcc__ or the Polo Novum
stx12 is it worth to be put in a wiki page? in our regular agenda page?
southerncross at the Best Western
mhu expenses for f2f meeting: can we do a simple -- all council -- approval of expenses ? I will reserve whatever is needed, and reimburse expenses
louis_to mhu: I need simply a rough amount to propose to budget list
louis_to and southerncross: I sent in a list of plausible hotels
louis_to please review them
mhu louis_to: okay, jsut dont make it too complicated
louis_to it's not to be
louis_to ie, I'll ask for about 2K
louis_to or 3K
jsc same rules for everybody ...
southerncross louis_to: but if I had to choose separately (not in one package) the price would have had been higher, even within the list.
southerncross anyway: partial reimbursement is okay
CorNouws jsc: hmm, does the council have to ask for budget to held its meeting?
jpmcc__ CorNouws: Louis has to go through the approval process as he's paying for this
* mhu thinks we can approve the necessary amount from the "general administration" budget (that Louis owns)
jsc indirectly yes, important is to be save if somebody will ask
louis_to mhu: yes
mhu ...that Louis owns, and Christoph_n and Martin approve
louis_to shall we move on then?
jpmcc__ "Common Administration
jpmcc__ * Budget:€5,000.00
jpmcc__ * Budget Holder: Community Manager
jpmcc__ Currently: Louis Suarez-Potts
jpmcc__ * Authorisers: Martin Hollmichel, Sophie Gautier "
louis_to mhu: I'll send the proposed amount Friday or Monday
louis_to and the amount is woefully inadequate :-)
louis_to 5K eu. is pittance
jpmcc__ Has the CC approved the change of authoriser from Sophie?
louis_to no
louis_to uhg, sorry, yes: Christoph
louis_to sorry, brain lapse
mhu yes, I have already made notice of christoph replacing sophie
louis_to or at any rate, I propsed him, I believe, and he's already weighed in on proposal
louis_to thx
louis_to shall we moe on to #12?
stx12 yes, joost asked how to handle issue comment that start to be offensive.
stx12 http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=107456
stx12 this concrete casse is solved.
jsc in which way?
CorNouws closed by st, without further action from the submitter
CorNouws but was that 'the case'
stx12 see last my last comment; i politely closed the issue and there was no further action needed
CorNouws stx12: do you know why JA asked our attention for it?
CorNouws is he unhappy with possibilities to act in such a situation?
stx12 he felt unsure how to handle this.
stx12 i don
jsc the style of communication is not acceptable and the question is if we want to handle such things in general. Do we want to kick off such users?
stx12 i don't know whether the agenda item was added before or after he stood in my office
stx12 that would have been my next measure
CorNouws OK, I remember there was a discussion on a list ..., should we read that to get a better understanding of what was particularly difficult or nasty?
stx12 a discussion about this issue in parallel to the comments in the issue`?
jsc i think reading the issue comments will show it
CorNouws added 5 jan 2010 11:36
CorNouws (ja's item at the agenda)
stx12 ok, then this case is solved; and joost has an idea how to handle such cases.
CorNouws not every person is the same when it comes to handling such rude bahaviour, so it's something to look at for sure
CorNouws stx12: ok, thanks
louis_to okay, do we have new items to discuss here?
CorNouws Next item , pls
louis_to there are none?
CorNouws yip
jpmcc__ I think we need a formal statement that the mailing list guidelines apply to issues too ...
louis_to yes; they apply to all discourse on OOo
louis_to ALL
stx12 not for today. edu and infrastructure are rescheduled for the f2f
louis_to I have made that clear when corresponding to unhappy people
stx12 jpmcc__: that makes sense
louis_to right; so let's focus on agenda items for f2f
jpmcc__ louis_to: I'd like the CC to approve changes to the budget approers for the MP
louis_to juergen, don't hesistate to yell at me
louis_to who are the new ones?
jpmcc__ Budget Holder to be floeff instead of me, and I'd like to be approved as an authoriser
louis_to +1
jsc +1
mhu jpmcc__: fine with me +1
christoph_n +1
stx12 +1
CorNouws +1
southerncross +1
louis_to others?
_Nesshof_ +1
louis_to paveljanik: ?
louis_to I assume you vote yes, too
* mhu exchanged John and Florian in the budget-spreadsheet, change effective immediately :-)
louis_to okay, if no other business?
southerncross let's adjourn...
louis_to +1
louis_to indicate if NOT in favour of adjourning
CorNouws thanks al & bye bye
louis_to if no objections, then I call the meeting closed until next time
</pre>

Community Council Log 20091217

2009-12-17T21:02:48Z

LouisSuarez: Created page with '== IRC Log of Community Council Meeting 2009-12-17 == '''Attendees''' * Christoph Noack (christoph_n) * Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_) * Matthias Huetsch (mhu) * Cor Nouws (CorN…'

== IRC Log of Community Council Meeting 2009-12-17 ==

'''Attendees'''

* Christoph Noack (christoph_n)
* Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_)
* Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
* Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
* Louis Suarez-Potts (louis_to)
* Charles-H. Schulz (southerncross)
* John McCreesh (jpmcc)
* Stefan Taxhet (stx12) (present for latter half)

''' Absent '''
* Juergen Schmidt (jsc)
* Pavel Janik (paveljanik)

* Time recorded is Eastern Standard Time, -05:00 UTC

<pre>
[14:43:58] louis_to Let's start
[14:44:01] southerncross thanks
[14:44:05] louis_to The agenda is at:
[14:44:14] louis_to http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/The_OpenOffice.org_Community_Council_Agenda
[14:44:31] louis_to Please look it over now and read your AIs, etc., if you have not done so already
[14:44:39] louis_to meanwhile, I'll cringe in guilt for all those I have not done
[14:45:24] louis_to if we are all familiar with the agenda, then let's get going
[14:45:44] louis_to terminus time is set for 1.5 hours from 16:30 uTC
[14:45:56] *** CorNouws has left the channel ()
[14:46:11] louis_to I assume we approve the AIs from last meeting as shown?
[14:46:17] * southerncross nods
[14:46:18] * stx12 thinks uTC is 3 hours before UTC ;-)
[14:46:35] louis_to then .. 2: AI is Louis: prepare a wiki page with events for budget planning.
[14:46:46] louis_to ah, right :-)
[14:46:54] louis_to 18:30, I meant
[14:47:08] jpmcc or even 19:30 UTC
[14:47:17] *** CorNouws (n=cono@a80-101-151-17.adsl.xs4all.nl) has joined the channel
[14:47:23] louis_to whoops :-/
[14:47:38] * louis_to notes he's been up a long, long time today
[14:47:43] southerncross that's what stuck me in this strange time conundrum
[14:47:48] louis_to so, I have not done my AI
[14:48:10] louis_to however, I should be able to do it this weekend, as I finally have some free time and a stomach for it
[14:48:22] jpmcc despite the octopus
[14:48:32] stx12 i'm going to restart the introduction of the TM policy tomorrow - literally.
[14:48:36] louis_to so, in process (btw, are we keen on using a wiki for AIs?)
[14:48:42] christoph_n (John, at least he is back in the ocean.)
[14:48:51] jpmcc :-)
[14:49:03] louis_to stx12: :-) (my tomorrow's are mexican?: Mañana)
[14:49:11] southerncross yes it's very practical
[14:49:40] louis_to 3.0 ST indicates he'll start Friday discussions again
[14:49:47] louis_to 4.0
[14:49:49] stx12 no, it means this friday; the picture becomes more concrete with all the necessary parts.
[14:50:16] louis_to 4.1: done
[14:50:22] louis_to 4.2: Done
[14:50:42] louis_to 4.3: that was put on hold until after holidays, viz., post 6 jan
[14:50:42] _Nesshof_ 5.1 open
[14:51:10] louis_to 4.4: not doine. I suggest we do it for next meeting, when there should be more people around, too
[14:51:41] louis_to 5.1, as _Nesshof_said, open
[14:52:02] louis_to 5.2; Winter of code: Cor, who is workign with you on this?
[14:52:13] CorNouws alas did not find time for that. But it is holiday soon..
[14:52:27] louis_to that's okay but I'd like to know who all is committed to this
[14:52:33] CorNouws And if I have questions, Juergen for sure will help, and Stefan, and ..
[14:52:35] louis_to eg, Juergen? Stefan? Martin
[14:52:48] CorNouws ;-)
[14:52:51] louis_to okay, thanks. I'd like to be inclued, too
[14:53:01] CorNouws thanks, will do so
[14:53:03] louis_to included, I mean, as my update with Seneca might include
[14:53:06] louis_to this element
[14:53:08] louis_to thanks
[14:53:19] louis_to so, 5.2 Open
[14:53:33] louis_to 6.0: Distribution infrastructure (Bouncer); Wait for results of testing (prepared by Florian) - MirrorBrain looks like a good replacement for Bouncer but MI needs sorting. AI: John to talk to Florian to see if we should hire someone to develop the MI
[14:53:34] jpmcc 6. We are on target to use MB for 3.2
[14:53:46] louis_to great!
[14:53:52] * mhu does not understand "MI"
[14:53:57] louis_to that will allow us to track with more granularity
[14:53:58] louis_to ?
[14:54:06] jpmcc Management Information
[14:54:20] mhu jpmcc: ah okay thanks
[14:54:20] stx12 mirrorbrain = mb ; mi = stats
[14:54:25] christoph_n (Thanks!)
[14:54:40] jpmcc MI = http://marketing.openoffice.org/marketing_bouncer.html
[14:54:49] louis_to thanks indeed!
[14:55:22] louis_to btw, I'd like to propose that the CC publicly thank the volunteer mirrors on the release of 3.2 for 9 plus years of heroic work
[14:55:47] christoph_n Good idea!
[14:56:07] stx12 including and esp. osuosl
[14:56:11] louis_to yes
[14:56:22] mhu +1
[14:56:40] louis_to most people just don't realize that OOo is brought to them by volunteer mirror services.... not by Sun mirrors
[14:56:43] mhu ...i.e. good idea, indeed
[14:56:48] jpmcc Remind me to put something in the announce@ posting for 3.2
[14:56:52] louis_to thanks
[14:56:53] christoph_n (A question for later: Is this something for the "improved communication effort"? E.g. blog?)
[14:57:02] * southerncross nods in agreement
[14:58:00] louis_to AiI: jpmcc: To place a loud thanks to the volunteer mirrors, esp. OSUOSL, for their long and heroic work over the last 9 plus years making OOo in all its many languages and versions available to the world's billions
[14:58:27] louis_to this thanks to be in the announce@ for 3.2
[14:58:45] louis_to christoph_n: it could be, as there are no specific bounaries here
[14:58:53] louis_to boundaries, that is
[14:59:14] louis_to and the rule is: if it is of interest to you, with your OOO hat on, then it is likely to be of interest to others in OOo, too
[14:59:38] louis_to so, moving on to 7.0
[14:59:41] CorNouws Pootle infra: I promised to hold contact with André Schnabel on that. So will contact him soon.
[14:59:46] stx12 7. there is a new pootle version available; update is planned for beginning 2010 ; i have no concrete date
[14:59:59] louis_to thanks
[15:00:06] louis_to 8.0....
[15:00:11] louis_to not done
[15:00:12] stx12 for the second part (tools evaluation) we found no owner in orvieto
[15:00:13] louis_to open
[15:00:22] louis_to I was going to wonder about that
[15:00:32] louis_to cna I suggest someone then like sankarshan?
[15:00:45] CorNouws Yes, André for the software wishes in area of l10n
[15:00:47] louis_to has anyone asked? he used to be in charge of the indic localizations for Red hat
[15:00:54] louis_to in India
[15:01:18] louis_to or, possibly Dwayne Bailey?
[15:01:28] stx12 it should be an active member of the localization teams using pootle today...
[15:01:42] CorNouws Shall I ask André first, as agreed (afair)
[15:01:44] louis_to I think both do but were not at Orvieto, though in times past they have been
[15:01:51] stx12 CorNouws: yes
[15:02:12] louis_to AI: CorNouws: to ask André about owning the pootle AI
[15:02:44] louis_to Anyway, to return to historical failure: 8.0: not done, open
[15:03:05] louis_to same with 9.0: open
[15:03:18] louis_to that takes us to 10.0:
[15:03:30] louis_to 1. Budget 2010: AI: all budget holders to submit their requests for a share of this 100k. See proposal from Matthias [1]
[15:03:53] jpmcc Maybe we should agree that if an AI is not done within a certain time another CC member picks it up?
[15:04:10] louis_to jpmcc: that sounds reasonable
[15:04:17] louis_to but let's finish this agenda first, no?
[15:04:26] jpmcc louis_to: of course
[15:04:26] louis_to so, the message that 10 points to is:
[15:04:27] louis_to http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2324
[15:04:31] stx12 that's not really a motiviation to get my items done ;-)
[15:04:45] louis_to scots love shame? :-)
[15:04:47] mhu has anyone recognized that I could only think of 95K, not the full 100K ? So, we should probably go over my proposal, and see if all fits
[15:04:55] * stx12 sits back and waits...
[15:04:59] christoph_n Still, there is point 11 :-)
[15:04:59] christoph_n (To bother the AI owners)
[15:05:31] louis_to please, let's go over the post by mhu and critique it, if need be
[15:05:33] stx12 christoph_n qualified in this moment....
[15:05:51] * christoph_n shudders :-)
[15:06:11] louis_to where are we with 10?
[15:06:31] jpmcc I have not done anything for the MP Budget yet
[15:06:44] louis_to nor I with my bucket
[15:06:48] * mhu has not yet heard any complaints
[15:06:53] CorNouws jpmcc: Should we ask reservattion of the 5k extra for marketing? We talk about some 2010 plans atm ...
[15:07:11] southerncross I might have a question about the category "other marketing"
[15:07:24] mhu yes ?
[15:07:28] stx12 the first step is to agree on mhu's grouping.,,
[15:07:36] southerncross I am not discussing the sum proposed, but I'm merely asking the question of control and oversight.
[15:08:03] mhu go ahead charles
[15:08:21] southerncross by this I mean, who makes the decisions and do we have guidelines for this. Specifically, I understand this "other marketing" concerns for a great part the NLC
[15:08:36] southerncross we have seen a growth recently of budget requests
[15:08:53] southerncross which is good on the one hand because it shows people are moving and doing things locally
[15:08:56] mhu jpmcc ? do you want to answer ?
[15:09:03] southerncross but controls might be necessary
[15:09:12] southerncross without blocking every initiative of course
[15:09:51] jpmcc All the MP funding has to be discussed on dev@marketing or marcon@ and then approved by me plus one of Cor, Italo, and Florian. It seems to work ok so far
[15:10:14] mhu indeed, I also think it worked quite good
[15:10:35] stx12 southerncross: the general workflow is descibed here: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Funding_And_Budgets
[15:10:48] * southerncross nods
[15:11:00] jpmcc We seem to be the only budget holders who are actively spending their funding ;-)
[15:11:08] mhu yes :-)
[15:11:10] southerncross I would like to be included in the group, as an advisor
[15:11:21] * southerncross smiles
[15:11:31] CorNouws southerncross: but since we are still learning to spend wisely, pls let'sll keep eyes and ears open
[15:11:59] southerncross CorNouws: yes my point was that we should not fall into traps
[15:12:02] jpmcc southerncross: are you a MarCon?
[15:12:05] southerncross yes
[15:12:11] southerncross a MarCon of France
[15:12:15] southerncross :-)
[15:12:18] jpmcc OK, then you qualify ;-)
[15:12:31] southerncross oh, low barriers of entry I see :-)
[15:13:20] jpmcc southerncross: you also have to respond to emails and turn up to meetings on the right day ;-)
[15:13:33] southerncross okay I can try to do that
[15:13:51] southerncross once I'll figure out why marcon emails never reach me these days :(
[15:14:33] * stx12 thinks the first step is to decide for 1 address ;-)
[15:14:49] southerncross oh but it is decided
[15:14:59] southerncross the good old one at laposte
[15:15:07] stx12 don't worry - just kidding...
[15:15:12] louis_to jpmcc: regarding spending: I have simply forgotten to send t mhu the bill for all the costs incurred and approved
[15:15:12] jpmcc louis_to: please call us to order...
[15:15:16] louis_to order!
[15:15:23] louis_to 11.0
[15:15:25] stx12 last order already?
[15:15:28] louis_to yes
[15:15:55] louis_to but then there is the new business we should discuss relating to education project and also a quick, if posisble, roundtable for next year agenda items
[15:15:56] stx12 let's talk about 12. first? what are your plans for deb 4/4 2010?
[15:16:05] * mhu still has louis expenses of 1800 euros on the radar, and hopes louis has so too
[15:16:08] stx12 let's talk about 12. first? what are your plans for feb 4/5 2010?
[15:16:18] louis_to mhu: I do
[15:16:25] louis_to so does, more importantly, my wife
[15:16:48] louis_to stx12: my plans are zero unless I get funded to go to wherever
[15:16:53] mhu :-)
[15:16:59] southerncross I still have to see what's going on with our budget
[15:17:13] southerncross but if I can I will come
[15:17:20] southerncross and perhaps bring Melissa with me
[15:17:21] stx12 i don't have problems to spend your gengeral admin money for that. please ask your advisors.
[15:17:27] louis_to proposal: that the CC fund a trip for members to go to morocco for f2f
[15:17:27] * mhu has introduced a new budget to be used for f2f meetings ...
[15:17:32] louis_to :-0
[15:17:56] southerncross oh...
[15:18:01] christoph_n If we talk about 12 (f2f), then Hamburg is fine for me. More fish to come... :-)
[15:18:29] mhu ...yes, I meant the Common/Admin budget
[15:18:34] louis_to I note that the proposed date is just before fosdem
[15:18:39] stx12 seriously; it would be great to see you all in hamburg and i think support for travelling would b ewell sepnt...
[15:18:56] stx12 louis_to: yes, intentionally
[15:18:59] * southerncross nods
[15:19:15] louis_to in that case, it becomes more legitimate, I think
[15:19:43] CorNouws stx12: prevented we have a well prepared agenda ...
[15:19:57] jpmcc CorNouws: +1
[15:19:57] louis_to so, proposal: that funds be made available for a f2f in Hamburg prior to fosdem
[15:20:03] * christoph_n thinks Cor is right
[15:20:18] louis_to yes, that is required, else it's a waste of tiem
[15:20:20] louis_to and money
[15:20:30] louis_to so, let's work on that.....
[15:20:36] stx12 CorNouws: do i hear a volunteer for the preparation of the agnda?
[15:20:56] louis_to but are all agreed for a f2f, subsidized as needed by the CC, in Hamburg prior to fosdem?
[15:21:14] mhu yes
[15:21:15] CorNouws stx12: I thought abpout that, but would feel embarassed if I walk in front of our junior concil coordinator ;-)
[15:21:32] * louis_to is rollilng on the ground laughing
[15:21:40] stx12 CorNouws: no problem, it will encuorage my sucessor
[15:22:02] louis_to please, are we agreed for the f2f?
[15:22:05] southerncross yes
[15:22:06] louis_to +1
[15:22:10] christoph_n louis_to: Is there any dependence wrt to fosdem?
[15:22:12] stx12 louis_to: yes
[15:22:15] mhu yes (again)
[15:22:15] christoph_n yep
[15:22:18] CorNouws hmm, maybe we can do a good job otgether ;-)
[15:22:25] louis_to yes: if possible we can do fosdem
[15:22:33] CorNouws of course
[15:22:35] louis_to but fosdem big expense is the hotel
[15:22:35] stx12 CorNouws: fine with me
[15:22:47] jpmcc My wife will not allow me to accept any meetings in February unless we have successfully moved house in January :-(
[15:23:00] christoph_n John: Go go go! :-)
[15:23:04] CorNouws jpmcc: also looking for volunteers?
[15:23:13] southerncross it seems spouses are now influencing this project more and more...
[15:23:15] louis_to burn the house down?
[15:23:16] stx12 jpmcc: what cna we do to move you abd your wife ;-)
[15:23:26] louis_to southerncross: let this be a warning!
[15:23:28] jpmcc CorNouws: No, just a house.
[15:23:42] southerncross lol
[15:24:10] louis_to so, we are agreed.
[15:24:18] louis_to that means that we really must look to cheap flights as soon as possible
[15:24:25] stx12 ok, at least we agree that we will start the planning and travel arrangements...
[15:24:26] louis_to ST: will you arrange lodging?
[15:24:53] louis_to or shall we act on our own? there are some rather good deals right now, in Hamburg--winter, you know---
[15:24:55] stx12 louis_to: hotel recommendations? yes
[15:25:12] louis_to I'll send some recommendations courtesy of my spouse :-)
[15:25:17] mhu junges hotel, as usual ?
[15:25:26] stx12 louis_to: hm, you are better informed that me; i guess sabine will support us...
[15:25:28] southerncross junges hotel?
[15:25:31] louis_to No: I can do better than that
[15:25:48] louis_to I'd like to propose a new item:
[15:25:49] _Nesshof_ btw, at the same time we want to do ESC meeting as well
[15:25:51] louis_to we discussed this last time
[15:26:02] louis_to #13: Education Project
[15:26:25] louis_to Juergen is not here, but I'd like for us to discuss, possible offlist, for privacy reasons and so we do not offend, the Education project's direction and leadership
[15:26:29] mhu southerncross: "Junges Hotel" is nearby and not so expensive, Louis was there in the past iirc
[15:26:31] louis_to and see what we can do
[15:26:38] louis_to folks, this is serious
[15:26:41] southerncross ok
[15:26:41] stx12 louis_to: if you have something you prefer over junges hotel, then let us know (by email)
[15:26:47] louis_to please, let's focus on agenda
[15:26:53] louis_to and outside of agenda items
[15:27:04] louis_to in this case, I propose the Education Project issue
[15:27:22] louis_to we have discussed previously it has problems: OOo4kids linkage, for instance
[15:27:41] louis_to and the fact that the lead seems to alienate a lot of develoopers, arccording to reports
[15:28:12] louis_to for this reason, we chose mentoring @ooo not mentoring at education
[15:28:34] louis_to I am to talk to Alexandro tomrrow and will also see about communicating with Eric
[15:28:37] mhu shall we leave this topic for the f2f meeting ? we could talk more clear then
[15:28:41] louis_to but I would like for us to evaluate the issue
[15:28:51] CorNouws we'll simpley have to talk and ask and investigate to see what is goning on
[15:28:58] CorNouws and talk about it later
[15:29:02] louis_to mhu: We can discuss it then, too, but there are some things that need to discuss sooner
[15:29:06] louis_to adn Cor is correct
[15:29:16] southerncross there might be another problem related to this
[15:29:17] mhu fine with me, go ahead
[15:29:25] louis_to so, I'd like tp propose we dsicuss this seriously adn evaluate options and so do some necessary research
[15:29:41] southerncross which, is, in a word, code.
[15:29:42] louis_to now is not the time, but it is the time to raise it as an issue that is of real importance
[15:29:50] southerncross yes
[15:30:44] louis_to So, I'd like to ask that we investigate the state of that project, and determine a course of action; not an indictiment, not an accusation but an evaluation
[15:31:49] southerncross okay
[15:31:59] southerncross and we do that.. at the f2f meeting?
[15:32:35] louis_to yes,. I'll update the members, too
[15:32:40] jpmcc southerncross: we need a volunteer to do some research before then
[15:32:40] louis_to so, if nothing else....
[15:32:59] stx12 a quick heads up: infrastructure
[15:33:02] louis_to I'll engage in it, but my issue is that I do not want to come across the only one
[15:33:02] southerncross I can do that, provided no one raises an objection of partiality
[15:33:16] southerncross I can help you with that louis
[15:33:20] * stx12 oops, too early
[15:33:20] CorNouws Yes, we mentioned energy supply in Orvieto. Anyone able to find some info on that?
[15:33:21] louis_to southerncross: I would suggest someone else, too; you have some history here, as well
[15:33:36] louis_to and I would suggest then that we ask CorNouws to referree any issues
[15:33:50] CorNouws Not too urgent, yet important, cuase we use a lott, I suppose ..
[15:33:54] * christoph_n thinks that does not know anything. Might that help?
[15:34:11] louis_to yes; let's discuss then offlist for final points.
[15:34:17] christoph_n okay...
[15:34:35] stx12 christoph_n: at least you are not biased - i guess
[15:34:39] louis_to CorNouws: I think that an announcemnt about our stance on energy policy to coincide with the end of Copenhagen might be just
[15:35:01] jpmcc louis_to: Have we got one?
[15:35:20] southerncross "more servers"
[15:35:31] southerncross but we promess we won't overclock them
[15:35:39] louis_to *That whenever possible to use green energy and to encourage the sustainable use of energy as with all things affecting the social and natural world.*
[15:35:51] * stx12 was going to say something serious if we are done with edu...
[15:35:57] louis_to instead of sustainable use of energy...
[15:36:04] louis_to resources
[15:36:23] louis_to stx12: we are done with edu; this is a delicate point and needs to be treated as such
[15:36:40] stx12 louis_to: agreed...
[15:36:42] louis_to I have nothing to add for the moment: up to you., stx
[15:37:06] CorNouws louis_to: thanks for the suggestions. We can work on this further on the mail list, I think.
[15:37:32] louis_to CorNouws: yes, you mean energy? But we ought to coincide it with Copenhagen, no?
[15:37:33] jpmcc Another Dr.Louis pronouncement allegedly in the English language which I find difficult to comprehend...
[15:37:38] louis_to :-)
[15:37:52] * louis_to notes that working in law wrecked his syntax, too
[15:38:06] CorNouws louis_to: no, not so ent IMO
[15:38:23] jpmcc (fyi, there has been a discussion on dev@marketing about holding Virtual OOoCons)
[15:38:23] louis_to ent?
[15:38:31] CorNouws louis_to: not so urgent, IMO
[15:38:45] louis_to jpmcc: the brazilians did a rather good one last year
[15:39:02] louis_to CorNouws: okay, but a statement can gain more weight if linked, I think
[15:39:30] * christoph_n thinks that some more life coverage would already help during the OOoCons
[15:39:48] christoph_n life --> live
[15:39:59] christoph_n :-)
[15:40:02] louis_to :-0
[15:40:25] louis_to okay, lacking a firm proposal on this, I ask then that CorNouws come up with one? using the list
[15:40:37] louis_to and that we conclude this meeting
[15:40:46] stx12 we are starting the evaluation of an alternative infrastructure for the main site. i will notify the website project and invite interested people. you may want to look at kenai.com to become familiar with it.
[15:40:46] * southerncross nods
[15:40:52] christoph_n 11?
[15:40:55] stx12 http://kenai.com/projects/ooo-migration/pages/Home
[15:41:03] louis_to ah
[15:41:05] CorNouws louis_to: yes, OK. I'm not looking for a statement, rather for action
[15:41:37] stx12 just fyi
[15:41:55] louis_to thanks; is the wiki membership open to all?
[15:42:36] stx12 ? you may want to start with subscribing to the list... the wiki is public
[15:42:42] stx12 you may want to start with subscribing to the list... the wiki is public
[15:43:11] jpmcc stx12: thanks for the heads-up on kenai. Can we put it on the agenda for the next meeting?
[15:44:06] stx12 sure, we could. but the work is going to happen in the website project...
[15:44:40] christoph_n Basically, everone is "affected". So some basic information would be great, if there is enough time...
[15:45:00] CorNouws off topic: Guys, I have to make a phonecall with someone else and cannot hanlde phone and IRC .. so have to leave. Sorry, but anythin important left for now?
[15:45:01] * stx12 feels some pressure to blog...
[15:45:27] christoph_n I think point 11, or did I miss that?
[15:45:33] stx12 read the planet and stay tuned...
[15:45:56] louis_to are all agreed to call this meeting closed?
[15:45:59] * christoph_n thinks he will provide some comments from the UX point-of-view
[15:46:16] stx12 christoph_n: good!
[15:46:24] stx12 louis_to: yes
[15:46:33] southerncross yes
[15:46:38] mhu louis_to: I guess we're done
[15:46:41] southerncross and ... I have to think about dinner
[15:46:42] stx12 have a nice evening; and a nice call, CorNouws
[15:46:43] christoph_n yep
[15:46:49] southerncross have a nice evening everyone
[15:46:50] louis_to thanks, all
[15:46:56] CorNouws bye then all. See you later
[15:46:57] louis_to meeting is adjourned
</pre>

Community Council Log 20091126

2009-12-17T20:59:55Z

LouisSuarez:

== IRC Log of Community Council Meeting 2009-11-26 ==

'''Attendees'''

* Christoph Noack (christoph_n)
* Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_)
* Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
* Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
* Louis Suarez-Potts (oulipo_to)
* Juergen Schmidt (jsc)
* John McCreesh (jpmcc)
* Pavel Janik (paveljanik)
* Stefan Taxhet (stx12) (present for latter half)

''' Absent '''
* Charles-H. Schulz

* Time recorded is Eastern Standard Time, -05:00 UTC

<pre>
[14:41:34] louis_to all in favour of starting now? only indicate if you are not in so favour
[14:41:41] jsc yes
[14:42:27] louis_to if no one is opposed, meeting begins, absent : Charles Schulz, Stefan Taxhet
[14:43:10] louis_to I assume we have all reviewed the agenda? it is:
[14:43:12] _Nesshof_ stefan is nnot able to join, see above
[14:43:24] louis_to yes; but he's still absent :-)
[14:43:26] louis_to http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/The_OpenOffice.org_Community_Council_Agenda
[14:43:35] louis_to "absent" is a neutral term
[14:44:19] _Nesshof_ louis_to: not in German ;-)
[14:44:21] louis_to Ah
[14:44:38] louis_to I assume we approve of the previous meeting's minutes?
[14:44:41] louis_to they are at http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Minutes#Minutes_of_Meetings
[14:45:00] louis_to no objections
[14:45:08] louis_to therefore let's move to current agenda
[14:45:19] louis_to Budget
[14:45:19] louis_to 1. Louis: will send list of events to plan the marketing budget shortly.
[14:45:22] jpmcc Apologies for late posting of the minutes
[14:45:59] louis_to Action on this: I sent a provisional list but I'd like to refine it, though I suspect that will be a continuing process. But for now, the provisional list that allows us to plan budget should work
[14:46:10] louis_to at least, it was indicated it did last meeting
[14:46:22] CorNouws Coorect, and so we used it
[14:46:43] jsc where can i find this list?
[14:46:45] louis_to so, next step is to refine it and then I'd like to publish it on a wiki
[14:47:09] louis_to jsc: right now, in an email archive; but I want to publish a refined version oin a wilki
[14:47:16] CorNouws louis_to: with what purpose?
[14:47:18] louis_to so that community can add
[14:47:36] CorNouws OK, for later financial planning and so..
[14:47:42] louis_to so that community can add those things they favour but we would retain editing power
[14:47:43] louis_to yes.
[14:48:04] louis_to there are always new events and old events that dissipate in importance
[14:48:13] jpmcc Cor: We need to work out how we best use Louis' list in preparing the overall MP budget submission
[14:48:45] * CorNouws Documentation project (Clayton CC) is working hard on improving wiki / Catagories - CC should have a look I think
[14:48:46] louis_to correct: the Gnome.Asia event proved that point, as it was as much a marketing event as anything else, and continues to be so
[14:49:07] louis_to CorNouws: point well taken!
[14:49:29] CorNouws louis_to: a point for all of us, BTW ;-)
[14:49:33] louis_to let us move on to 2.2: Trademark
[14:49:33] louis_to 1. ST to bring the proposal back to the trademark list,
[14:49:33] louis_to 2. review by the cc and then start on discuss@
[14:49:53] louis_to (Cor: I was not writing just for me.)
[14:50:23] louis_to ST is absent (away neutrally) so cannot present on this
[14:50:39] CorNouws louis_to: (then pls say that in Dutch ;-) )
[14:50:45] louis_to :-)
[14:51:14] louis_to (In English, had I wanted to specify self, I would have said, supposedly, "I take your point.", but not all would use that locution.)
[14:51:28] jsc 2.2 is difficult to comment on without further background info
[14:52:06] CorNouws jsc: Yes, as Louis said: since Stefan is not here, nothing to discuss now
[14:52:09] louis_to yes, which is why we are also moving on. But, briefly, there have been extensiive trademark discussions, and these in this phase ST has been leading.
[14:52:35] louis_to As the issue has been in coordinating trademark interests of the community with those of the key distributors, such as Debian
[14:53:29] louis_to resolutions and agreements have been reached, and these were reached at OOoCon, but ST was to present these finally to the list and continue there. If you and any of the others here in the CC are not members of trademark@, please let me know, and I'll add you
[14:53:52] christoph_n Please add me. Thanks!
[14:53:58] louis_to it is an invite-only list but if someone requests who has a trademark interest, I do not decline
[14:54:12] jsc yes, please add me
[14:54:22] louis_to will do; Charles is already a subscriber
[14:54:43] louis_to okay, issue tabled until next meeting; moving on to 2.3
[14:54:52] louis_to Elections
[14:54:52] louis_to 1. Update (council webpage, notification to broader community)
[14:54:54] jsc i think it make sense to become informed if such things will be discussed here
[14:55:08] jsc thanks
[14:56:15] louis_to so, the things to do with elections include:
[14:56:24] louis_to update the council webpage with the changes the election made
[14:56:34] louis_to 2. notify the community
[14:56:47] jsc i can update the council page if you want
[14:56:52] louis_to 3. initiate phase 2 of the new election
[14:57:02] louis_to jsc: you may indeed be asked to do that :-)
[14:57:14] jpmcc I think we also wanted to revamp the CC webpage to make it a bit more 'friendly' - photos of CC members etc ...
[14:57:30] louis_to go for it; i was going to today, per André's hint, but then was on the phone in a meeting for last 1.5 hours
[14:57:39] louis_to jpmcc: go for it
[14:57:51] louis_to not a matter of "friendly" as much as a matter of "useful"
[14:58:07] christoph_n Proposal: I would like to have a look at it, so would it be okay to do a "minor update" until then?
[14:58:14] louis_to photos help, esp. if we can fake old persons' with old photos not new ones :-)
[14:58:29] christoph_n black/white pictures? ;-)
[14:58:36] louis_to yes: the key point is to update the page to reflect the changes
[14:58:48] louis_to christoph_n: nay, dageuerreotypes
[14:59:37] louis_to but, jsc: AI to update the council webpage as suggested and then christoph_n and others to improve the page altogether, making it friendly and useful(er)
[14:59:50] louis_to that means we should all probably donate photos of ourselves
[14:59:57] louis_to or at least images
[15:00:07] jpmcc http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v1562/223/93/680917627/s680917627_1082145_3000.jpg
[15:00:08] louis_to and we can even, if we want, start facebook (ugh)
[15:00:30] louis_to :-)
[15:00:35] louis_to okay, let's move on...
[15:00:35] _Nesshof_ jpmcc: :-)
[15:00:42] louis_to and discuss intiiating next election
[15:01:00] louis_to who is standing down for this next cycle?
[15:01:06] * jpmcc me
[15:01:18] louis_to paveljanik?
[15:02:05] louis_to ->paveljanik: ping
[15:02:12] CorNouws louis_to: afair: yes (he's probably doning some work)
[15:02:22] louis_to just pinged him
[15:02:30] * _Nesshof_ me
[15:02:34] louis_to okay
[15:02:50] louis_to wave next would be me, mhu
[15:02:59] mhu indeed
[15:03:14] CorNouws and me, already overdue nearly a year
[15:03:22] louis_to I would suggest then that we start the actual nomination process by end of next week and alert people that we shall be doing that
[15:03:41] louis_to CorNouws; I was not sure if you wanted to include your election with this wave or wait for a special CCR one
[15:03:44] louis_to but, okay
[15:03:51] mhu but, we wanted to leave some overlap to better transfer knowledge , right ?
[15:04:06] *** stx12 (n=st@84.142.76.251) has joined the channel
[15:04:07] louis_to yes, that's why the final wave won't be until probably Feb. or March
[15:04:10] CorNouws louis_to: I was talking about the next after the next
[15:04:11] louis_to hello, stx12!!
[15:04:41] stx12 good evenig, sorry for joining late... and just go ahead...
[15:04:47] louis_to stx12: we are discussing elections and skipped over item 2.2
[15:04:57] mhu stx12: safely at home ?
[15:04:59] jsc hi stefan, i hope the car is running ...
[15:05:07] CorNouws hi Stefan - great your car is repaired
[15:05:18] christoph_n Hi Stefan!
[15:05:24] paveljanik Hi stx12
[15:05:29] stx12 yes, with the help of the nice man from the german automobile club
[15:05:30] louis_to _Nesshof_, jpmcc: are you planning on running again for office?
[15:05:58] louis_to I would guess that paveljanik is not....?
[15:06:14] _Nesshof_ louis_to: I'm looking for a replacement for me, but if if fail I might running again
[15:06:23] louis_to _Nesshof_, jpmcc: no need to answer now, but personally, I value your contributions
[15:06:26] paveljanik I want to be replaced too, yes.
[15:06:32] louis_to okay.
[15:06:56] louis_to Can I ask that as part of the process, regardless of your future intentions, that you help in recruiting and informing new candidates?
[15:07:10] jpmcc but of course
[15:07:32] louis_to and I would suggest that we perhaps have, as once was sugagested, an open IRC meeting that would serve to inform and familiarize the community with what we do
[15:08:04] stx12 and if _Nesshof_ will not want to nominated we have to find a solution for the Team OOo board to be involved in the CC proceedings...
[15:08:48] louis_to We have the apparatus for SPI Advisor already in place, and Sophie and I are it; a similar office could be created for Team OOo
[15:09:08] jsc mmh, i am not sure if it helps but i ma at least a member of Team OOo
[15:10:10] louis_to okay, it may; but for now, I propose starting new elections with announcement for open candidacy next Thursday, with warning (alerts) this Friday
[15:10:20] mhu louis_to: that would be wrt budget, and I am still here ...
[15:10:20] louis_to to the usual big lists
[15:10:32] louis_to good :-)
[15:11:11] louis_to and further, I propose that we have an open meeting... perhaps a special one next Thursday as well? or week after?
[15:12:00] jsc with a special agenda?
[15:12:24] jsc or just focused on the upcoming election
[15:12:41] stx12 iirc martin proposed an open section in the beginnig of our meetings
[15:12:52] louis_to focused on upcoming election, no real agenda except a couple of points, as we addressed at Orvieto:
[15:13:04] louis_to who we are, what we do, what the community wants to learn of us and do
[15:13:17] jsc ok, thanks
[15:13:32] louis_to so, shall we vote on these proposals?
[15:13:41] louis_to elections: friday start with warning beforehand
[15:14:01] louis_to and b) open irc meeting (special one) thursday
[15:14:04] CorNouws louis_to: do you have indications that there is (a lot of) interest for this meeting already now?
[15:14:08] louis_to (sorry, changed days....)
[15:14:15] louis_to CorNouws: no
[15:14:33] CorNouws When I think at the OOoCOn Q&A ...
[15:14:35] louis_to so, if there is no interest, we have no meeting, and so must first determine interest....
[15:14:43] louis_to yes, but that's not really reprsentative, I hope
[15:14:51] CorNouws it tends to be one-way often, the wrong way as well :-)
[15:14:51] stx12 louis_to: i assume you discussed the final steps to close the old elections? this could raise some interest...
[15:15:07] louis_to stx12: which ones do you mean?
[15:15:22] stx12 message of the result to the broader community
[15:15:23] louis_to doubtless, I omitted some and await your insight :-)
[15:15:27] louis_to yes.
[15:15:32] stx12 good
[15:15:40] CorNouws stx12: that might help yes!
[15:15:52] * stx12 goes back in his dog house
[15:16:10] louis_to and that will be sent out tomorrow; and jsc agreed to update the webpage; and christoph_n along with jpmcc to look at making webpage for council friendlier and more useful, including photos of us all
[15:16:30] louis_to but I do want a mechansim, such as asking people to sign up if they will be there.....
[15:17:04] louis_to I htink we can see what response we do get, just by sending out notes to discuss@ and other lively lists
[15:18:34] stx12 then go ahead and offer the first (half an) hour of the next meeting; i'm not sure whether we can commit to an additional evening!?
[15:19:27] _Nesshof_ stx12: no additional meeting, please
[15:19:44] louis_to do the rest agree with _Nesshof_?
[15:19:53] louis_to if so, then it would be the next meeting, not a special meeting
[15:19:53] _Nesshof_ an additional chanell ooocouncilpub for the first half of the hoer
[15:19:56] christoph_n And if we really run out of time, we may repeat that. This should be a suffucient "mechanism"....
[15:20:02] CorNouws stx12: yes, the first half hour is OK for me
[15:20:15] christoph_n stx12: Okay.
[15:20:16] louis_to okay, then first half hour of next meeting not a special meeting
[15:20:32] mhu yes, half hour of meeting is fine with me, additional meeting slot difficult to find
[15:20:44] jsc fine for me as well
[15:20:45] paveljanik yes
[15:23:00] _Nesshof_ .
[15:23:15] mhu .
[15:23:25] louis_to so, regarding the other elements---notifce of election, call for nominations--the schedule is okay--?---and I'll send a draft that's a lot like the prior one, modulo the changes imposed by the diffs of roles and persons
[15:23:47] mhu schedule is fine for me
[15:23:50] stx12 and the mechanics of the election process...
[15:23:54] louis_to send draft to this list, that is
[15:23:57] louis_to yes.
[15:24:07] christoph_n okay
[15:24:41] louis_to stx12: what specific mechanics do you mean?
[15:24:54] jsc i am fine with it
[15:25:24] stx12 i'm too; but let's this time avoid confusion by inviting all people to vote
[15:25:36] jsc :-)
[15:26:33] CorNouws stx12: Yes. Only a note to the major lists, and full details to the lists where people are that may vote
[15:26:40] louis_to English is such a confusing language. stx12: do you mean, by *not* inviting all to vote, yes?
[15:27:11] louis_to because that was the confusing error before
[15:27:24] CorNouws louis_to: Only a note to the major lists, and full details to the lists where people are that may vote
[15:27:29] stx12 louis_to: correct
[15:27:30] louis_to agreed
[15:27:39] * louis_to hates English
[15:28:04] louis_to English lacks coherence where it counts.....
[15:28:05] louis_to anyway
[15:28:14] * mhu thinks spanish would not make things easier :-)
[15:28:26] jsc louis_to: which language do you prefer?
[15:28:31] CorNouws My Italian is better ATM :-)
[15:28:34] louis_to actually, it would; but let's move back to either 2.2, trademark
[15:28:43] mhu :-)
[15:28:45] louis_to with stx12 giving short summary
[15:29:01] louis_to or move on to 2.4, internships
[15:29:11] louis_to stx12: can you supply the short summary?
[15:29:15] mhu right, lets move on
[15:29:26] CorNouws 2.4 nothing new to say
[15:29:35] louis_to CorNouws: hold on a second
[15:29:41] CorNouws Jürgen and I will work on it soon
[15:29:54] louis_to I'd like to finish 2.2
[15:30:18] stx12 i have yet looked in the orvieto minutes; the status has not much changed or than a restart of the guidelines for logo use to point directly to the site or unmodified product.
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[15:30:52] stx12 I would recommend to read john's minutes first and then i'm happy to update or hopefully provide news
[15:31:11] stx12 btw, we should add new cc members to trademark@council (my AI)
[15:31:13] louis_to stx12: was there resolution of issues at Orvieto?
[15:31:20] louis_to stx12: yes, already agreed to do that
[15:31:26] stx12 where there issues?
[15:31:30] louis_to if you want to do it, please go ahead
[15:31:53] *** jpmcc (n=chatzill@92-235-187-79.cable.ubr18.sgyl.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined the channel
[15:31:54] louis_to reconciliation of positions vis-a-vis OOo and distributor stakeholders
[15:31:55] stx12 yes, i will.
[15:32:09] louis_to add the new members? okay
[15:33:04] louis_to if no other update to 2.2, then indeed let's move onto 2.4
[15:33:09] stx12 there are concerns and there proposed solutions / workarounds; this will come up on trademark@ciuncil again soon
[15:33:16] louis_to ah, okay
[15:33:18] louis_to thanks
[15:33:28] louis_to so, 2.4: jsc and CorNouws will work in this
[15:33:49] louis_to fwiw, I'm to meet with Seneca people later next week
[15:34:20] louis_to and can say that there is lively interest in this sort of program (internships) in Vietnam and elsewhere
[15:35:24] louis_to so, I'd like to know --sure all would-- what sort of resources we have or will have at our disposal and what expectations we can promote
[15:35:49] louis_to but we can discuss this on the appropriate list, no?
[15:35:59] mhu yes
[15:36:03] jsc yes
[15:36:25] jpmcc is the "appropriate list" the Education project?
[15:36:33] louis_to jpmcc: my query, too
[15:36:53] mhu contests@marketing ?
[15:37:24] stx12 mentoring@<iforgottheproject> ?
[15:37:26] jsc well i think we should combine this with the ongoing efforts in the education project anyway. Although the work with some individuals might be difficult
[15:37:42] jsc or we should at least check if it make sense to combine it
[15:37:59] mhu mentoring@openoffice.org
[15:38:15] jpmcc I don't know whether the EP sees its remit as promoting the use of OOo in the education sector and/or educating new developers in OOo?
[15:38:20] CorNouws louis_to: "what expectations we can promote" ... remeber discussion at Orvieto?
[15:40:14] mhu wrt education project, not sure which way it is going / forking ... so, dont know whether that would be the right place to discuss
[15:40:16] louis_to I would suggest checking with education. I would rather they not entirely fork but rather work with the community and its aims. As it is, there is the OOo4kids
[15:40:55] louis_to and woudl rather bring them back in, or clarify their intentions.
[15:41:11] jsc you raise an important point. If they really want to fork we have to address this.
[15:41:14] louis_to I dislike the current friction and would rather resolve it
[15:41:14] mhu yes, that would be best (bring them back)
[15:41:16] louis_to yes.
[15:41:42] louis_to but if they do not want to be brought back, then they are good to go, as it were, tho that would be unfortunate
[15:41:46] jsc we should remind the project lead about his role
[15:42:01] mhu jsc: right
[15:42:03] jsc the edu project is too important from my point of view
[15:42:07] louis_to Indeed. but that is a differeernt discusison, perhaps?
[15:42:13] louis_to different discussion, I mean
[15:42:39] louis_to jsc: until recently, the education project was summarily ignored
[15:42:50] louis_to and when charles, sophie, I led it, it was simply marginal
[15:42:59] jsc the same is true for OOo4Kids beause the idea is not new and it is a sub project of the edu project
[15:43:14] louis_to however, I would as before like to centralize it so that it functions as the pivot for developer education, esp. of students
[15:43:29] louis_to OOo4kids is seen as a license fork, no?
[15:43:40] louis_to and that is unfortunate
[15:44:21] jsc it looks so but can we accept it? As i mentioned it is a sub project of the edu project
[15:44:25] louis_to so, I would propose that ideally we want mentoring@education but before we do that, we must clarify the role and function of the education project within the OOo enterprise
[15:44:28] jsc i think no
[15:44:30] CorNouws louis_to: as someone said: that is a different subject
[15:44:39] CorNouws apart from that: it is not on our agenda
[15:44:50] CorNouws so we can prepare that for another meeting ??
[15:44:57] louis_to CorNouws: right, but we are discussing now where the list is that we should discuss on
[15:45:09] louis_to and I'd rather not create a new list
[15:45:24] CorNouws Remeber the discussion we had in Orvieto about expectations?
[15:45:36] louis_to but for this particular discussion, it may make sense, then, to use something like mentoring@ooo
[15:45:38] mhu isn't the internship item related to this edu question ?
[15:45:54] * louis_to would much rather CorNouws actually spell out what he intends than to rely on the memory of those not there
[15:46:05] louis_to mhu: precisely
[15:46:30] jpmcc "Resource constraints in Sun mean there is no-one currently available. If Community funded a backfill could that release a core developer? Stefan recommends marketing activity should be directed at attracting extension developers rather than core. AI: Martin to put together a proposal for hiring a technical writer to document getting started on OOo development. Agreed to continue with...
[15:46:32] jpmcc ..."Winter of Code" - AI: Cor to own and cry for help if required."
[15:46:37] louis_to and to pretend it is not seems to me to re-iterate what I hope we do not want, the marginallization of education
[15:48:29] CorNouws jpmcc: thanks for quoting from the minutes ;-)
[15:48:30] jsc i suggest to move forward with mentoring@openoffice.org and let us search the communication with the edu leads
[15:50:04] louis_to I+1
[15:50:24] louis_to the issue here is that if we commit to a list X and then want to move to list Y, it's a pain
[15:51:06] louis_to but do we all agree to use the new list, mentoring@ooo for now?
[15:51:28] mhu okay to go ahead ( I seem to be subscribed to both mentoring@ and contests@ :-) )
[15:52:08] louis_to no doubt; I may have set up mentoring back in 2001.... when i filed an issue against _Nesshof_ to lead this :-)
[15:52:19] louis_to but cannot recall
[15:52:24] jsc louis_to: sorry for the confusion, i can live with contest@... as well
[15:52:38] louis_to CorNouws: do you have a preference?
[15:53:04] jsc but it seems that mentoring@... is not new and we can use it ;-
[15:53:39] CorNouws no
[15:53:40] louis_to ping to others... wake up?
[15:54:08] louis_to Then, for this, I'd like us to use mentoring@openoffice.org and keep contests@ for... contests
[15:54:17] christoph_n I'm fine with mentoring...
[15:54:20] louis_to and if and when it is better to use education lists, to migrte discusssions there
[15:54:36] mhu +1
[15:54:39] louis_to any objections to useing mentoring@ ?
[15:54:49] _Nesshof_ no
[15:54:51] stx12 no
[15:55:01] jsc no
[15:55:03] christoph_n no
[15:55:41] paveljanik no
[15:55:51] mhu no
[15:55:54] louis_to okay, I'd like to add an agenda item: to inform and reconcile with the goals of the overall Project the leads of the Education Project.
[15:56:31] mhu yes
[15:56:36] CorNouws louis_to: for one of the next meetings: +1
[15:56:41] louis_to implicit here is to listen to objections, issues, etc.; and then to see about moving forward with a program that brings in the efforts of the edu project
[15:56:49] jsc thanks, it's really important form my point of view
[15:56:53] louis_to yes; it will take a good time
[15:57:00] CorNouws have to leave soon
[15:57:15] CorNouws its important, but not urgent
[15:57:18] jpmcc I have to be away by 21:00 UTC
[15:57:23] louis_to the conditions are that our goals, etc. need to be clarified, as do the conditions that violate them
[15:57:33] CorNouws better prepare our selves well before starting a chaotic discussion
[15:57:35] louis_to okay, shall we table the rest of the items?
[15:57:59] jsc +1
[15:58:02] louis_to yes, that's why I think we need to be prepared with our specific goals and be prepared to offer guidance as well as willing ears
[15:58:07] CorNouws I'm rather interested when you will finish your AI's ...
[15:58:12] louis_to For now, I'd like to add this AI
[15:58:16] louis_to "your"=Louis?
[15:58:21] CorNouws No not a new one pls
[15:58:30] CorNouws the old ones first
[15:58:34] louis_to now that I'm no longer stuck on a plane in economy, probably sooner than later :-)
[15:58:39] CorNouws louis_to: yes of course
[15:59:01] * louis_to thought that stx12: was our new nanny? ;-)
[15:59:19] mhu let's finish for now, it's getting late ...
[15:59:19] stx12 sure, but that doesn't close AIs...
[15:59:46] CorNouws all CC members have the right to ask for decent handling
[15:59:48] louis_to okay, for me, the drafts, etc., by Tuesday
[16:00:24] jpmcc Tues 01 Dec 09?
[16:00:24] louis_to meanwhile, I'd urge the rest of us to review the AIs and provide an update
[16:00:29] jsc for me the update of the CC site, Louis can you send me the info which project i have to checkout for the web site?
[16:00:37] louis_to I'd also like to see if we can use a wiki to update our AIs, as I use in other projects
[16:00:41] louis_to that is quite convenient
[16:00:46] stx12 jsc: council/www
[16:00:47] jsc and give me the necessary permissions if i don't have them already
[16:00:54] jsc thanks
[16:01:33] CorNouws have to leave now ... thanks to all, all :-) bye bye
[16:01:34] louis_to all of you should have access (content dev) to the council stie, or if not content dev, then an equivalent role
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[16:01:42] jsc bye Cor
[16:01:50] stx12 bye
[16:01:51] jpmcc Must go too I'm afraid - I can catch up via the log
[16:01:53] louis_to regarding wiki for AIs.... I think it's useful to have an arragement like that
[16:01:59] *** jpmcc has quit IRC ("Night night")
[16:02:14] *** mhu has quit IRC ("bye, good night evening afternoon ...")
[16:02:15] louis_to but for now, I'd like to call the meeting adjourned and table remaining AIs and items for next meeting
</pre>
[[Category:Community Council]]

Community Council

2009-11-28T03:52:23Z

LouisSuarez: /* Elections 2009 */

== Introduction ==

The origins and purpose of the OpenOffice.org Community Council are explained on the [http://council.openoffice.org/ main Community Council site], where you will also find a list of the current members.

These wiki pages are used to record the day to day running of the Council - agendas and minutes of meetings, budgets, etc.

== Meetings ==

* To raise an issue at the next Community Council Meeting, add it to the [[Community_Council/Agenda | Agenda of the next meeting]]. You must be an OpenOffice.org community member. The term, "Community Member," is described in our [http://www.openoffice.org/dev_docs/guidelines.html Guidelines].
* Minutes of past meetings are [[Community_Council/Minutes | here]]
* A Calendar of future meetings is [[Community_Council/Calendar | here]]
* Channel: #OOoCouncil (freenode)

== Council coordinator ==

Starting from May 28 2009, the council works with a internal coordinator.

The idea:
* appoint a council coordinator every 4 to 5 months
* he/she is chosen from the council members
* no formal change of rules intended.
Responsibility during that time:
* looking after planning, progress of AI's
* so basically: poking the colleagues ;-)
Expected:
* will improve overall cc-performance
* will help to share the feeling of really being part of, of joined responsibility
Approved:
* Cor Nouws is the first to take this role
* Stefan Taxhet will be the next
* and in 4 months, the third person for this fine job will be choosen

== Budget ==

Information about the Community Council budget and payments procedure is [[Community_Council/Funding_And_Budgets | here]].

== Improving the project ==

Watch and help the page for [[Community_Council/Project_Improvements | improvements in the project]].

== Elections 2009 ==

The results of the November 2009 election are:

*Code Contributor Representative: Juergen Schmidt
51 Yes, 9 No (68)

*NLC Representative: Charles-H. Schulz
39 Yes, 3 No (111)

*Product Development Representative: Christoph Noack
31 Votes Christoph Noack
9 Votes Alexandro Colorado
(49)

The observers, Sophie Gautier, Drew Jensen, and Mechtilde Stehmann, have all approved and confirmed the results. Our welcome and congratulations to the new Council members!

Community Council

2009-11-26T21:58:58Z

LouisSuarez: /* Elections 2009 */

== Introduction ==

The origins and purpose of the OpenOffice.org Community Council are explained on the [http://council.openoffice.org/ main Community Council site], where you will also find a list of the current members.

These wiki pages are used to record the day to day running of the Council - agendas and minutes of meetings, budgets, etc.

== Meetings ==

* To raise an issue at the next Community Council Meeting, add it to the [[Community_Council/Agenda | Agenda of the next meeting]]. You must be an OpenOffice.org community member. The term, "Community Member," is described in our [http://www.openoffice.org/dev_docs/guidelines.html Guidelines].
* Minutes of past meetings are [[Community_Council/Minutes | here]]
* A Calendar of future meetings is [[Community_Council/Calendar | here]]
* Channel: #OOoCouncil (freenode)

== Council coordinator ==

Starting from May 28 2009, the council works with a internal coordinator.

The idea:
* appoint a council coordinator every 4 to 5 months
* he/she is chosen from the council members
* no formal change of rules intended.
Responsibility during that time:
* looking after planning, progress of AI's
* so basically: poking the colleagues ;-)
Expected:
* will improve overall cc-performance
* will help to share the feeling of really being part of, of joined responsibility
Approved:
* Cor Nouws is the first to take this role
* Stefan Taxhet will be the next
* and in 4 months, the third person for this fine job will be choosen

== Budget ==

Information about the Community Council budget and payments procedure is [[Community_Council/Funding_And_Budgets | here]].

== Improving the project ==

Watch and help the page for [[Community_Council/Project_Improvements | improvements in the project]].

== Elections 2009 ==

* Update: We finished the first cycle of elections and will announce the new members of the Council Friday 27 November 2009. Thanks to all!

We have begun the new election cycle in accordance with the [http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Items/Election_Process_Proposal Election Process]. The [http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Items/call_for_nominations_20091013 Call for Nominations] has been posted to the wiki and sent out to the lists. Information about the candidates for the November election can be found at http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Items/Candidates_October_2009

[[Category:Community Council]]

Community Council/Minutes

2009-11-26T21:57:18Z

LouisSuarez:

=Minutes of Meetings=

== 2009-11-26 ==

Regular meeting via IRC

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20091126]]

== 2009-11-03 (F2f in Orvieto) ==

The meeting ran through the AIs from the previous meeting as follows:

# Action Items from previous meeting (text of AI ''in italics'')
## Budget ''Louis: will send list of events to plan the marketing budget shortly'' - complete
## Trademark ''LSP (and ST) to provide to CC members offlist the proposal for voting then with comments on list: review by the cc (by November 4) and then start discussion on discuss@'' - Proposals had been put to Sun and Debian trademark folks. US trademark law requires trademark owners to quality control and monitor usage of trademarks. Agreement with Debian looks possible on name usage, but not on logo (about box and splash screen). Usage of name would be restricted to binaries built from the community repository (with patches). Need to come up with a proposal which allows free usage for "Download OOo" buttons and 'click through' mechanism to approve use on CD cases etc. Note that changing the logo (OOoCon session) would require registering a new trademark. Need also to consider the case of current practice within the community - e.g. annual OOoCon logos, "Cento Milioni" logo, etc. '''New AI: ST to take back to trademark list'''
## Elections ''Louis announce elections October 9 or 10 / aim: elections finished before the OOoCon'' - underway
## Internship ''Cor (et all): Continue on the preparations / Try to have more clear in 3rd week of October (big Education event in Toronto) / Louis and Matthias: working on suport (where neccesary) from project leads / Louis: contacting Seneca to organise support for them / Louis: to send to contests@marketing update on Seneca College, China (Tsinghua) and others for internship and mentoring'' - Louis to meet Seneca. Agreed that training in core OOo development is too high a barrier for first degree students - should look instead at extensions etc. Japanese IPA group want to send a developer to Hamburg to learn how to code a fix to a local font problem. Resource constraints in Sun mean there is no-one currently available. If Community funded a backfill could that release a core developer? Stefan recommends marketing activity should be directed at attracting extension developers rather than core. '''AI: Martin to put together a proposal for hiring a technical writer to document getting started on OOo development'''. Agreed to continue with "Winter of Code" - '''AI: Cor to own and cry for help if required'''.
## Distribution infrastructure (Bouncer) ''Wait for results of testing (prepared by Florian)'' - MirrorBrain looks like a good replacement for Bouncer but MI needs sorting. '''AI: John to talk to Florian to see if we should hire someone to develop the MI'''
## l10n infrastructure (Pootle) ''Wait for nagios a.o. monitoring results'' - availability of 85% is not acceptable. Hamburg now responsible. Pootle version upgrade imminent, but questions raised over long term viability of Pootle. To address issues, agreed: do a version upgrade; if necessary 'throw hardware at it' '''AI: Stefan'''; find better tool that is a closer fit (Launchpad? - or possibly a new project starting off to create a new Pootle?).
## Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC ''Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list'' - carry forward
## Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects ''Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting'' - carry forward
## Meeting at OOoCon 2009 - complete
## OOoCon 2009 ''Schedule a CC Q&A'' - complete
## Budget 2010 ''Start budgeting (planning spending money) for the next year before the OOoCon by mail'' - Annual Euro 100,000 budget should be sustainable based on current levels of income from inidivual contributions. '''AI: all budget holders to submit their requests for a share of this 100k'''.

== 2009-10-22 ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===
# List of decisions and AI's of [[Community_Council/Minutes#Minutes_of_Meetings | previous meeting]] for approval
# Action items - from previous meeting(s)
## Budget
### Louis: continue on list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals (for marketing budget primirarly)
## Trademark
### Stefan et al: in process with progess among stakeholders
### then with comments on list: review by the cc (by November 4) and then start discussion on discuss@
## Elections
### Louis announce elections October 9 or 10
### aim: elections finished before the OOoCon
## OpenOffice.org Internship
### Cor (et all): Continue on the preparations,
### Try to have more clear in 3rd week of October (big Education event in Toronto)
### Louis and Matthias: working on suport (where neccesary) from project leads
### Louis: contacting Seneca to organise support for them
### Louis: to send to contests@marketing update on Seneca College, China (Tsinghua) and others for internship and mentoring
## Distribution infrastructure
### Wait for results of testing (pepared by Florian)
## l10n infrastructure
### Wait for nagios a.o. monitoring results
## Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
### Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
## Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
### Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting
## Meeting at OOoCon 2009
### compile an agenda on the mail list and also advertise the meeting date and agenda options to project leads
### extended meeting on Tuesday evening
## OOoCon 2009
### Schedule a CC Q&A
## Budget 2010
### Start budgeting (planning spending money) for the next year before the OOoCon by mail
# Council coordinator
## Start for Stefan in this position
## choosing his successor (for the period from February 2010 - May 2010).
# ..

=== Decisions made ===
(specific topics that do not return in the AI's)
# Elections CC: late nominees have to wait for the next elections, that will come really soon after current elections

=== Ideas to keep in mind for nearby future ===
# CC meeting at OOoCon
## f2f meeting with the major sponsors at OOoCon to discuss about the project status
## or presentation off cc to major stakeholders
# Communicating and deciding in the CC
## Do we need a reply on a proposal/question from each member, or do we say: no reply is OK/agree?
# make "parnership" a new agenda item (spin off from work on certification)

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20091022]]

=== AI's ===
# Budget
## Louis: will send list of events to plan the marketing budget shortly.
# Trademark
## LSP (and ST) to provide to CC members offlist the proposal for voting
## then with comments on list: review by the cc (by November 4) and then start discussion on discuss@
# Elections
## elections proceed as scheduled
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## Cor (et all): Continue on the preparations,
## Try to have more clear in 3rd week of October (big Education event in Toronto)
## Louis and Matthias: working on suport (where neccesary) from project leads
## Cor will explain why that was necessary
## Louis: contacting Seneca to organise support for them
## Louis: to send to contests@marketing update on Seneca College, China (Tsinghua) and others for internship and mentoring
# Distribution infrastructure
## Wait for results of testing (pepared by Florian)
# l10n infrastructure
## Wait for nagios a.o. monitoring results
# Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
## Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
# Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
## Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting
# Meetings at OOoCon 2009
## compile an agenda on the mail list and also advertise the meeting date and agenda (Tuesday afternoon) options to project leads
## extended council meeting for on Tuesday evening
## Q&A with the council on ..
# Budget 2010
## MHU: Send first proposal for budget before the OOoCon by mail

== 2009-10-08 ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===

# List of decisions and AI's of [[Community_Council/Minutes#Minutes_of_Meetings | previous meeting]] for approval
# Action items - from previous meeting(s)
## Budget
### Louis: working on list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals (for marketing budget primarily)
## Trademark
### Stefan et al: in process with progess among stakeholders
### then with comments on list: review by the cc (sometime early September) and then start discussion on discuss@
## Elections
### Louis and Matthias work on the elections
### aim: elections conceived for early September
## OpenOffice.org Internship
### Cor (et all): Continue on the preparations
### Louis and Matthias: working on suport (where neccesary) from project leads
### Louis: contacting Seneca to organise support for them
### Louis: to send to contests@marketing update on Seneca College, China (Tsinghua) and others for internship and mentoring
## L10n infrastructure
### Wait for results of testing (pepared by Florian)
## OpenOffice.org Certification
### Cor: close voting this week, so ping Pavel and his deputy
### while discussing, work on building stones for other (requests for) partnerships
## Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
### Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
## Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
### Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting
# Council Meeting at the OOoCon
## Our agenda
# OOoCon 2009
## Update
# Budget 2009
## Idea/request for Dev-budget
## l10n infrastructure - see mail Stefan
## Issue with taxes from past years cleared up?
# Budget 2010
## Start planning spending money for the next year asap.
# Council coordinator
## On 2009-05-28 we dicided to vote for a council coordinator in 4 months, for the time from February 2010 - May 2010.
## And for Stefan to be in from October 2009 - January 2010 (provided his boss agrees)
# ...

=== Decisions made ===
(specific topics that do not return in the AI's)

=== Ideas to keep in mind for nearby future ===
# CC meeting at OOoCon
## f2f meeting with the major sponsors at OOoCon to discuss about the project status
## or presentation off cc to major stakeholders
# Communicating and deciding in the CC
## Do we need a reply on a proposal/question from each member, or do we say: no reply is OK/agree?
# make "parnership" a new agenda item (spin off from work on certification)

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20091008]]

=== AI's ===
# Budget
## Louis: continue on list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals (for marketing budget primarily)
# Trademark
## Stefan et al: in process with progess among stakeholders
## then with comments on list: review by the cc (by November 4) and then start discussion on discuss@
# Elections
## Louis announce elections October 9 or 10
## aim: elections finished before the OOoCon
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## Cor (et all): Continue on the preparations,
## Try to have more clear in 3rd week of October (big Education event in Toronto)
## Louis and Matthias: working on suport (where neccesary) from project leads
## Louis: contacting Seneca to organise support for them
## Louis: to send to contests@marketing update on Seneca College, China (Tsinghua) and others for internship and mentoring
# Distribution infrastructure
## Wait for results of testing (pepared by Florian)
# l10n infrastructure
## Wait for nagios a.o. monitoring results
# Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
## Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
# Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
## Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting
# Meeting at OOoCon 2009
## compile an agenda on the mail list and also advertise the meeting date and agenda options to project leads
## extended meeting on Tuesday evening
# OOoCon 2009
## Schedule a CC Q&A
# Budget 2010
## Start budgeting (planning spending money) for the next year before the OOoCon by mail

== 2009-09-24 ==

Was not really a meeting.
Agenda of that meeting shifted to the next meeting.

== 2009-08-20 ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===

# List of decisions and AI's of [[Community_Council/Minutes#Minutes_of_Meetings | previous meeting]] for approval
# Action items - from previous meeting(s)
## Budget
### Louis: use marcon list and post to wiki list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals
## Trademark
### Stefan et all: discuss with Debian (09-07-10) and give feed back
### then with comments on list: review by the cc , and then start discussion on discuss@
## Elections
### Thalion72 (and mhu is going to help) to send to louis (and jpmcc) proposal for elections announcement for editing, writing, etc. (around May 30)
### Louis: ping André ..
## OpenOffice.org Internship
### Cor (et all): Start of the public process (announcement etc.) asap
### Louis: to send to contests@marketing update on Seneca College, China (Tsinghua) and others for internship and mentoring
## L10n infrastructure
### André: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839 , and discuss with Florian
### (See remarks in the log from cloph)
### Louis: ping André ..
## OpenOffice.org Certification
### all: continue discussion with Alexandro and Evan via mail list
### goal is to come to decission asap
### while discussing, work on building stones for other (requests for) partnerships
## Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
### Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
## Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
### Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting
## Schedule for next meetings
### Cor: continue on this via mail
# OOoCon 2009
## Update
# Budget
## Idea/request for Dev-budget
## l10n infrastructure - see mail Stefan
## Issue with taxes from past years cleared up?
# ...

=== Decisions made ===

=== Ideas to keep in mind for nearby future ===
# CC meeting at OOoCon
## f2f meeting with the major sponsors at OOoCon to discuss about the project status
## or presentation off cc to major stakeholders
# Communicating and deciding in the CC
## Do we need a reply on a proposal/question from each member, or do we say: no reply is OK/agree?

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20090820]]

=== AI's ===
# Budget
## Louis: working on list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals (for marketing budget primirarly)
# Trademark
## Stefan et al: in process with progess among stakeholders
## then with comments on list: review by the cc (sometime early September) and then start discussion on discuss@
# Elections
## Louis and Matthias work on the elections
## aim: elections conceived for early September
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## Cor (et all): Continue on the preparations
## Louis and Matthias: working on suport (where neccesary) from project leads
## Louis: contacting Seneca to organise support for them
## Louis: to send to contests@marketing update on Seneca College, China (Tsinghua) and others for internship and mentoring
# L10n infrastructure
## Wait for results of testing (pepared by Florian)
# OpenOffice.org Certification
## Cor: close voting this week, so ping Pavel and his deputy
## while discussing, work on building stones for other (requests for) partnerships
# Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
## Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
# Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
## Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting

== 2009-07-09 ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===

# List of decisions and AI's of [[Community_Council/Minutes#Minutes_of_Meetings | previous meeting ]] for approval
# Action items - from previous meeting(s)
## Budget
### Louis: use marcon list and post to wiki list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals
## Trademark
### Stefan: discuss the item with Debian and give feed back
### then with comments on list: review by the cc , and then start discussion on discuss@
### update
## Elections
### Thalion72 (and mhu is goning to help) to send to louis (and jpmcc) proposal for elections announcement for editing, writing, etc. (around May 30)
### update
## OpenOffice.org Internship
### Cor (et all): Start of the public process (announcement etc.) asap
### update
## L10n infrastructure
### André: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839 , and discuss with Florian
### (See remarks in the log from cloph)
## OpenOffice.org Certification
### all: continue discussion via mail wthin next day's
### goal is to come to decission asap
### update
## Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
### Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
## Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
### Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting
## Schedule for next meetings
### Cor: continue on this via mail
# OOoCon 2009
## Update
## Any special preparations AFA-the CC-IC ?

=== Decisions made ===

=== Ideas to keep in mind for nearby future ===
# CC meeting at OOoCon
## f2f meeting with the major sponsors at OOoCon to discuss about the project status
## or presentation off cc to major stakeholders
# Communicating and deciding in the CC
## Do we need a reply on a proposal/question from each member, or do we say: no reply is OK/agree?

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20090709]]

=== AI's ===
# Budget
## Louis: use marcon list and post to wiki list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals
# Trademark
## Stefan et all: discuss with Debian (09-07-10) and give feed back
## then with comments on list: review by the cc , and then start discussion on discuss@
# Elections
## Thalion72 (and mhu is goning to help) to send to louis (and jpmcc) proposal for elections announcement for editing, writing, etc. (around May 30)
## Louis: ping André ..
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## Cor (et all): Start of the public process (announcement etc.) asap
## Louis: to send to contests@marketing update on Seneca College, China (Tsinghua) and others for internship and mentoring
# L10n infrastructure
## André: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839 , and discuss with Florian
## (See remarks in the log from cloph)
## Louis: ping André ..
# OpenOffice.org Certification
## all: continue discussion with Alexandro and Evan via mail list
## goal is to come to decission asap
## while discussing, work on building stones for other (requests for) partnerships
# Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
## Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
# Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
## Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting
# Schedule for next meetings
## Cor: continue on this via mail

== 2009-06-25 ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===

# List of decisions and AI's of [[Community_Council/Minutes#Minutes_of_Meetings | previous meeting ]] for approval
# Action items - from previous meeting(s)
## Budget
### Louis: use marcon list and post to wiki list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals
## Trademark
### Stefan: gather feedback from Sun legal people, tries within one week, but asks for ETA first
### Cor: Ask Bernard for editing and Alex for his legal opinion
### then one week for review by the cc , and then start discussion on discuss@
## Elections
### Thalion72 to send to louis (and jpmcc) proposal for elections announcement for editing, writing, etc. (around May 30)
## OpenOffice.org Internship
### Cor (et all): Start of the public process (announcement etc.) in week 25
### Update
## L10n infrastructure
### André: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839 , and discuss with Florian
## Project improvement page
### André: try to help discussion on project leads list
## OpenOffice.org Certification
### Cor: continue discussion via mail shortly
### Update
## Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
### Cor: ask Louis for final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
## Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
### Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting
## Schedule for next meetings
### Cor: pick this up via mail
# Future with oracle, do we have ideas/whishes ..
## See this [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2125 mail]
# ...

=== Decisions made ===
# continue with OOo Internship, although it might be late for some countries / possible participants

=== Ideas to keep in mind for nearby future ===
# CC meeting at OOoCon
## f2f meeting with the major sponsors at OOoCon to discuss about the project status
## or presentation off cc to major stakeholders
# Communicating and deciding in the CC
## Do we need a reply on a proposal/question from each member, or do we say: no reply is OK/agree?

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20090625]]

=== AI's ===

# Budget
## Louis: use marcon list and post to wiki list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals
# Trademark
## Stefan: discuss the item with Debian and give feed back
## then with comments on list: review by the cc , and then start discussion on discuss@
# Elections
## Thalion72 (and mhu is goning to help) to send to louis (and jpmcc) proposal for elections announcement for editing, writing, etc. (around May 30)
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## Cor (et all): Start of the public process (announcement etc.) asap
# L10n infrastructure
## André: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839 , and discuss with Florian
## (See remarks in the log from cloph)
# OpenOffice.org Certification
## all: continue discussion via mail wthin next day's
## goal is to come to decission asap
# Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
## Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
# Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
## Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting
# Schedule for next meetings
## Cor: continue on this via mail

== 2009-06-11 ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===

# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Action items - from previous meeting(s)
## Budget
### Louis: use marcon list and post to wiki list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals
## Trademark
### discussion to continue on dicsuss@ after June 11th
## Elections
### Thalion72 to send to louis (and jpmcc) proposal for elections announcement for editing, writing, etc. (around May 30)
### Update
## OpenOffice.org Internship
### Stefan to suggest the budget for the internship program as suggested by the proposal
### Update
## L10n infrastructure
### Stefan, André, Cor: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839
## Project improvement page
### Cor: ping Louis to mail project leads
## OpenOffice.org Certification
### Louis: to sent the old plan just as reminder what we had already done
### Cor: ask Alexandro and Evan for materials, a business plan, and ask if some financial support can help with that
### Update
## Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
### louis_to, stx12, Thalion72: with louis_to to come up with initial draft, stx12 with steps for retirement/removal/ and Thalion72 to reivew and edit as needed
# Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
## formalise the practise to delegate confirmation of Incubator project to project_leads@ and for native language projects to leads of NLC.
# Schedule for next meetings
## Only one more appointment left: June 26
## Shall we add another month, or is July too much occupied by vacations ?

=== Decisions made ===

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20090611]]

=== AI's ===

# Budget
## Louis: use marcon list and post to wiki list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals
# Trademark
## Stefan: gather feedback from Sun legal people, tries within one week, but asks for ETA first
## Cor: Ask Bernard for editing and Alex for his legal opinion
## then one week for review by the cc , and then start discussion on discuss@
# Elections
## Thalion72 to send to louis (and jpmcc) proposal for elections announcement for editing, writing, etc. (around May 30)
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## Cor (et all): Start of the public process (announcement etc.) in week 25
# L10n infrastructure
## André: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839 , and discuss with Florian
# Project improvement page
## André: try to help discussion on project leads list
# OpenOffice.org Certification
## Cor: continue discussion via mail shortly
# Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
## Cor: ask Louis for final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
# Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
## Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting
# Schedule for next meetings
## Cor: pick this up via mail

== 2009-05-28 ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===

# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Action items - from previous meeting(s)
## Budget
### Matthias, André and Cor agreed on a meeting regarding budget issues for next monday.
### Louis: again ping, to get estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
## Trademark
### Update after the renewed discussion on tm@ooo
## Elections
### ...
## OpenOffice.org Internship
### Update
## L10n infrastructure
### Stefan, André, Cor: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839
## Project improvement page
### Cor: add some content, then ping Louis to mail project leads
## proposal council coordinator
### Cor: ask votes of members not present at the meeting
# OpenOffice.org Certification
## Review [[Education/Certification/Petition| the petition]] for endorsement.
# Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
## formalise the practise to delegate confirmation of Incubator project to project_leads@ and for native language projects to leads of NLC.

=== Minutes ===
TBD

=== Decisions made ===
# Trademark
## cc decides in two weeks on the trademark proposal, then discussion brought to dicsuss@
# council coordinator
## [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2090 proposal] approved: Cor is the first one in this role, then Stefan, and after 4 months we already vote for the third period.
# Budget
## Waiting for outcome of taxes, then more clear budgetting
(see log)

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20090528]]

=== AI's ===

# Budget
## Louis: use marcon list and post to wiki list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals
# Trademark
## discussion to continue on dicsuss@ after June 11th
# Elections
## Thalion72 to send to louis (and jpmcc) proposal for elections announcement for editing, writing, etc. (around May 30)
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## Stefan to suggest the budget for the internship program as suggested by the proposal
# L10n infrastructure
## Stefan, André, Cor: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839
# Project improvement page
## Cor: ping Louis to mail project leads
# OpenOffice.org Certification
## Louis: to sent the old plan just as reminder what we had already done
## Cor: ask Alexandro and Evan for materials, a business plan (suggested content in log) and ask if some financial support can help with that.
# Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
## louis_to, stx12, Thalion72: with louis_to to come up with initial draft, stx12 with steps for retirement/removal/ and Thalion72 to reivew and edit as needed

== 2009-05-14 ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===

# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Action items
## Budget
### Louis: schedule a conference call with CC members regarding budget issues
### Matthias: more clear on situation wrt taxes to pay?
### Louis: Send and gather estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
## Trademark policy
### Do we know by now why we need/want it
## Elections
### in preparation - see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/BrowseList?list=discuss&by=thread&from=2228762 mailing list]
### status of [[Community_Council/Items/Election_Process_Proposal]]
### approve removal of utilities project
### approve removal of odftoolkit project
## L10n infrastructure
### More news from discussion?
## Project improvement page
### Cor add some content, then ping Louis to mail project leads
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## (should be starting soon)
# Proposal for role of council coordinator
## ( see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/BrowseList?list=discuss&by=thread&from=2222504 mail list] )
## ...

=== Minutes ===
TBD

=== Decisions made ===

# the accepted project utilities has been merged into framework, and thus no longer a separate accepted project
# odftoolkit, now a separate project outside OOo, and thus no longer a separate incubator projects
# Community_Council/Items/Election_Process_Proposal accepted as final

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20090514]]

=== AI's ===
# Budget
## Matthias, André and Cor agreed on a meeting regarding budget issues for next monday.
## Louis: again ping, to get estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
# Trademark
## Update after the renewed discussion on tm@ooo
# Elections
## ...
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## Update
# L10n infrastructure
## Stefan, André, Cor: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839
# Project improvement page
## Cor: add some content, then ping Louis to mail project leads
# proposal council coordinator
## Cor: ask votes of members not present at the meeting

== 2009-04-30 ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===
# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Action items
## Budget
### Louis: schedule a conference call with CC members for next week regarding budget issues
### Matthias: money on account and estimates for incomes and taxes to pay
### Louis: Send estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
## SPI - update
## Trademark
### Update
## Louis, André: elections draft announcement + schedule
## L10n infrastructure
## Cor: project improvement page: further clarification
## All: project improvement page: input for content and links
## ..
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## Discussion started on contests@marketing.openoffice.org
## last time, marketing was the weekest point
## idea is that funding comes from marketing and development budget
## any suggestions / whishes from the cc at this moment
# Proposal for role of council coordinator
## see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2000 mail list]
## discussion
## to go or not to go
# Growing the project
## ...
# Guidelines for bundling extensions
:: [http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=100836 issue 100836] requests the removal of the writer2latex extension from OOo 3.1 (raised as showstopper)
:: reason was given in [http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=100744 issue 100744] as "According to our guidelines for bundling extensions we cannot bundle extensions which are not covered by the guidelines to contribute (meaning SCA)."
:: Question to the council: where are those guidelines, who approved these guidelines at what time?

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20090430]]

=== AI's ===

# Budget
## Louis: schedule a conference call with CC members regarding budget issues
## Matthias: more clear on situation wrt taxes to pay?
## Louis: Send and gather estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
# Trademark policy
## Do we know by now why we need/want it
# Elections
## Running ?
# L10n infrastructure
## More news from discussion?
# Project improvement page
## Cor add some content, then ping Louis to mail project leads

=== Notes ===
Important info / discussion, not coming back as AI for the nextmeeting

* SPI; info about procedures / position / possibility to improve (when we want to invest time)

=== Minutes ===

TBD

== 2009-04-09==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===
# L10n builds distribution over the network, see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?listName=discuss&msgNo=1986 Rafaella mail]
## what can we do to support
## ..
# Growing the project
## see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1999 mail list]
## discussion
## to go or not to go
# Proposal for role of council coordinator
## see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2000 mail list]
## discussion
## to go or not to go
# Guidelines for bundling extensions
:: [http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=100836 issue 100836] requests the removal of the writer2latex extension from OOo 3.1 (raised as showstopper)
:: reason was given in [http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=100744 issue 100744] as "According to our guidelines for bundling extensions we cannot bundle extensions which are not covered by the guidelines to contribute (meaning SCA)."
:: Question to the council: where are those guidelines, who approved these guidelines at what time?
# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Action items
## Budget
### Louis: schedule a conference call with CC members for next week regarding budget issues
### Matthias: money on account and estimates for incomes and taxes to pay
### Louis: Send estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
## SPI - update
## Trademark
### Louis to review with André and John trademark proposals; also to revisit the list (done)
### Update
## Louis, André: elections draft announcement + schedule
## Cor to send to CC list proposals on CC function, structure and community growth (both done)

=== log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20090409]]

=== AI's ===
# Budget
## Louis: schedule a conference call with CC members for next week regarding budget issues
## Matthias: money on account and estimates for incomes and taxes to pay
## Louis: Send estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
# SPI - update
# Trademark
## Update
# Louis, André: elections draft announcement + schedule
# L10n infrastructure
# Cor: further discussion on proposal council coordinator via mail
# Cor: project improvement page: further clarification
# All: project improvement page: input for content and links

=== Minutes ===
TBD

== 2009-03-26==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===
# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Action items
## Elections ..
## New charter - done
## Budget precedures - done
## SPI
### mails to CC list ..
### info on donations page - done
## Trademark
## Growing the project
### info on wiki
### further ideas / discussion
# (2009) Budget
## Is it possible to work with yearly spending / income sheets etc. (see irc log)
# Proposal for role of council co-ordinator
## appoint a council coordinator every 4 to 5 months, who is responsible during that time for poking the colleagues ;-) etc.
### will improve overall cc-performance
### will help to share the feeling of really being part of it, of joined responsibility
# L10n builds distribution over the network, see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?listName=discuss&msgNo=1986 Rafaella mail]

=== log ===
* [[Community Council Log 20090326]]

=== AI's ===
Action items
# Budget
## Louis: schedule a conference call with CC members for next week regarding budget issues
## Matthias: money on account and estimates for incomes and taxes to pay
## Louis: Send estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
# SPI - update
# Trademark
## Louis to review with André and John trademark proposals; also to revisit the list (done)
## Update
# Louis, André: elections draft announcement + schedule
# Cor to send to CC list proposals on CC function, structure and community growth (both done)

=== Minutes ===
* Minutes TBD

== 2009-03-12 [[Community Council Notes 20090312]] ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===
# Minutes of previous meeting for approval and action items
# 2008 Financial Statement
# 2009 Budget
# Proposal for role of Community Co-ordinator (Cor)
# Update on Trademarks (Sophie)

=== Attendees ===
* Sophie Gautier (sophi)
* Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
* John McCreesh (jpmcc)
* Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
* André Schnabel (Thalion72)
* Stefan Taxhet (stx12)

** absent: Pavel Janik (paveljanik)
** absent: Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_)

=== Minutes ===
====New and Familiar Action Items====
* Elections: to commence this week with candidate nominations (Louis and Sophie).
*Announcements related to new charter and elections:
1. For new charter (André and John, ''completed'')
2. for nominations and election news, 3 days after the first announcement
* Trademark update (In lawyer's hands; update: Sophie, John, Louis): "in progress"
* Budget procedures clarification (John and probably others): ''in progress''
* LSP: Louis to re-send to CC list original emails related to SPI

===Summary/Minutes===
* Prior minutes were approved

===Old Action Items and actions and summary of discussion===
* André: review plebiscite on Community Council Proposal, ask the council to formally accept the proposal and publish as new version of the charter - complete - on agenda -''completed''
* John: make budget procedures more visible - ''completed''
* Sophie: prepare a short note about trademark proposal for the next meeting - complete -'' on agenda''
* Sophie: resend mail on SPI to the council list for comments - on agenda
* Louis / Matthias: get treasurers of Team OOo e.V. and SPI in contact - Action: Matthias to ping Louis for contact details - ''completed''
* Charter change (André) see email - Agreed Proposal formally accepted by Council, updated on Web, ''completed''.
Trademark (Sophie) draft_0.6 is ready, waiting comments from Marketing - Action: under legal review, ''continuing''
* Budget (Cor) we intended to decide on the budget for 2009. Is info available? Martin said this was scheduled for March.
* Budget (Cor) Proposal for clear routing of funding request: see email. Agreed. Action - Cor --''completed''
* Budget (Cor) Proposal to ask the l10n-team at Sun, if new hardware is badly needed see mail. Action Stefan to see if we can improve quality of service by spending CC budget on infrastructure: ''completed'':
** ST spoke with Rafallea Branconi and she "feels comfortable with the current setup with 2 pootle servers.'we will monitor these more closely to see whether they are as reliable as we need it. Sophie argued that language partition is inefficient and that we should partition by region instead. ''Discussion to continue''
* Budget (Sophie) SPI Info needed see mail – Action: Louis/Sophie contacted SPI and Louis is sending MHU notifications of donations; link to SPI repository on donation page (http://contributing.openoffice.org/donate.html). L/S attended last Board meeting as observers and will participate more actively to run for office. (Why SPI? Because makes it easier for US residents to pay via cheque or credit card.)
* Growing the project (Cor) see mail Action Cor to put on the wiki- completed: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Project_Improvements : ''Discussions to be conducted on list'' '''Action remaining: Louis to re-send to CC list original emails'''.
* This year's GSoC (John) Action Stefan to see if we are likely to be accepted- ''discussed''
* Proposals for OOoCon and the Community consultation process (John). John stated that after discussions on the lists, the Marketing Project had decided to change the process to award OOoCon one year in advance. This would give teams more time to prepare and to allow them to learn from the previous team. This means this year the MP will be awarding OOoCon 09 and 10, then next year OOoCon 11, etc. As time was short, John agreed to continue this conversation on the CC list. Action John--''completed''

== 2009-02-19 (IRC) ==

===Attendees===
* Sophie Gautier (sophi)
* Pavel Janik (paveljanik)
* Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_)
* Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
* John McCreesh (jpmcc)
* Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
* André Schnabel (Thalion72)
* Stefan Taxhet (stx12)

* missing:
** Louis Suarez-Potts (absent)

===Minutes===
16:45 Meeting opened
# Minutes of previous meeting - approved
# Action items
## André: review plebiscite on Community Council Proposal, ask the council to formally accept the proposal and publish as new version of the charter - complete - ''on agenda''
## John: make budget procedures more visible - ''complete''
## Cor: draft a proposal for a more clear workflow - ''on agenda''
## Sophie: prepare a short note about trademark proposal for the next meeting - complete - ''on agenda''
## Sophie: resend mail on SPI to the council list for comments - ''on agenda''
## Louis / Matthias: get treasurers of Team OOo e.V. and SPI in contact - '''Action''': Matthias to ping Louis for contact details
# Charter change (André) [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1944 see email] - '''Agreed''' Proposal formally accepted by Council
# Trademark (Sophie) draft_0.6 is ready, waiting comments from Marketing - '''Action''': John to review
# Budget (Cor) we intended to decide on the budget for 2009. Is info available? Martin said this was scheduled for March.
# Budget (Cor) Proposal for clear routing of funding request: [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1923 see email]. '''Agreed'''. '''Action''' - Cor to add to wiki
# Budget (Cor) Proposal to ask the l10n-team at Sun, if new hardware is badly needed [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1843 see mail]. '''Action''' Stefan to see if we can improve quality of service by spending CC budget on infrastructure
# Budget (Sophie) SPI Info needed [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1854 see mail] - already discussed
# Growing the project (Cor) [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1946 see mail] '''Action''' Cor to put on the wiki
# This year's [http://code.google.com/opensource/gsoc/2009/faqs.html GSoC] (John) '''Action''' Stefan to see if we are likely to be accepted
# [http://marketing.openoffice.org/ooocon2009/cfl/index.html Proposals for OOoCon] and the Community consultation process (John). John stated that after discussions on the lists, the Marketing Project had decided to change the process to award OOoCon one year in advance. This would give teams more time to prepare and to allow them to learn from the previous team. This means this year the MP will be awarding OOoCon 09 and 10, then next year OOoCon 11, etc. As time was short, John agreed to continue this conversation on the CC list. '''Action''' John
# AOB - none
17:49 UTC Meeting closed

==2009-01-22 (IRC)==

===Attendees===
* Sophie Gautier (sophi)
* Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_)
* Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
* Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
* André Schnabel (Thalion72)
* Stefan Taxhet (stx12)

* missing:
** Louis Suarez-Potts (excused)
** Pavel Janik

===New Action Items===

* André: review plebiscite on Community Council Proposal, ask the council to formally accept the proposal and publish as new version of the charter

* John: make budget procedures more visible
* Cor: draft a proposal for a more clear workflow

* Sophie: prepare a short note about trademark proposal for the next meeting

* Sophie: resend mail on SPI to the council list for comments
* Louis / Matthias: get treasurers of Team OOo e.V. and SPI in contact

===Agenda===

# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Approval of provisional budgets for 2009
# Endorsement of "Developer's Manifesto 2009"
# AOB

===Minutes===

* budget holders can start with the same budgets as for 2008. Budgets for 2009 will be reviewed end of Feb. (after Team OOo e.V. finished finanzial review, budged holders are asked to prepare a more detailed budget plan, if possible)

* a "Developer's Manifesto 2009" will be published on the OOo website, as porposed on the [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1922 council mailing list]

* Other business
** the new Charter Proposal has passed all steps that are necessary to become final. The results of the plebiscite need to be reviewed and the proposal needs to be published at the council website as new version of the charter.
:: AI for André: review plebiscite, ask the council to formally accept the proposal and publish as new version of the charter

:* André suggested to move the budget and funding procedures to the council website. Proposal was rejected, as the procedure is likely to be reworked.
:: AI for John: make budget procedures more visible
:: AI for Cor: draft a proposal for a more clear workflow

:* CorNouws asked what the status of the trademark proposal is
:: AI for Sophie: prepare a short note about trademark proposal for the next meeting

:* Sophie asked for more information about SPI
:: AI for Sophie: resend mail on SPI to the council list for comments
:: AI for Louis / Matthias: get treasurers of Team OOo e.V. and SPI in contact

=== Log ===
[[Community Council Log 20092201]]

== OLDER MEETINGS ... 2008 and before ==
See the next page:
[[Community_Council/Minutes_2008_and_older]]

[[Category:Community Council]]

Community Council Log 20091126

2009-11-26T21:51:22Z

LouisSuarez: Created page with '== IRC Log of Community Council Meeting 2009-111-26 == '''Attendees''' * Christoph Noack (christoph_n) * Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_) * Matthias Huetsch (mhu) * Cor Nouws (Cor…'

== IRC Log of Community Council Meeting 2009-111-26 ==

'''Attendees'''

* Christoph Noack (christoph_n)
* Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_)
* Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
* Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
* Louis Suarez-Potts (oulipo_to)
* Juergen Schmidt (jsc)
* John McCreesh (jpmcc)
* Pavel Janik (paveljanik)
* Stefan Taxhet (stx12) (present for latter half)

''' Absent '''
* Charles-H. Schulz

* Time recorded is Eastern Standard Time, -04:00 UTC

<pre>
[14:41:34] louis_to all in favour of starting now? only indicate if you are not in so favour
[14:41:41] jsc yes
[14:42:27] louis_to if no one is opposed, meeting begins, absent : Charles Schulz, Stefan Taxhet
[14:43:10] louis_to I assume we have all reviewed the agenda? it is:
[14:43:12] _Nesshof_ stefan is nnot able to join, see above
[14:43:24] louis_to yes; but he's still absent :-)
[14:43:26] louis_to http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/The_OpenOffice.org_Community_Council_Agenda
[14:43:35] louis_to "absent" is a neutral term
[14:44:19] _Nesshof_ louis_to: not in German ;-)
[14:44:21] louis_to Ah
[14:44:38] louis_to I assume we approve of the previous meeting's minutes?
[14:44:41] louis_to they are at http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Minutes#Minutes_of_Meetings
[14:45:00] louis_to no objections
[14:45:08] louis_to therefore let's move to current agenda
[14:45:19] louis_to Budget
[14:45:19] louis_to 1. Louis: will send list of events to plan the marketing budget shortly.
[14:45:22] jpmcc Apologies for late posting of the minutes
[14:45:59] louis_to Action on this: I sent a provisional list but I'd like to refine it, though I suspect that will be a continuing process. But for now, the provisional list that allows us to plan budget should work
[14:46:10] louis_to at least, it was indicated it did last meeting
[14:46:22] CorNouws Coorect, and so we used it
[14:46:43] jsc where can i find this list?
[14:46:45] louis_to so, next step is to refine it and then I'd like to publish it on a wiki
[14:47:09] louis_to jsc: right now, in an email archive; but I want to publish a refined version oin a wilki
[14:47:16] CorNouws louis_to: with what purpose?
[14:47:18] louis_to so that community can add
[14:47:36] CorNouws OK, for later financial planning and so..
[14:47:42] louis_to so that community can add those things they favour but we would retain editing power
[14:47:43] louis_to yes.
[14:48:04] louis_to there are always new events and old events that dissipate in importance
[14:48:13] jpmcc Cor: We need to work out how we best use Louis' list in preparing the overall MP budget submission
[14:48:45] * CorNouws Documentation project (Clayton CC) is working hard on improving wiki / Catagories - CC should have a look I think
[14:48:46] louis_to correct: the Gnome.Asia event proved that point, as it was as much a marketing event as anything else, and continues to be so
[14:49:07] louis_to CorNouws: point well taken!
[14:49:29] CorNouws louis_to: a point for all of us, BTW ;-)
[14:49:33] louis_to let us move on to 2.2: Trademark
[14:49:33] louis_to 1. ST to bring the proposal back to the trademark list,
[14:49:33] louis_to 2. review by the cc and then start on discuss@
[14:49:53] louis_to (Cor: I was not writing just for me.)
[14:50:23] louis_to ST is absent (away neutrally) so cannot present on this
[14:50:39] CorNouws louis_to: (then pls say that in Dutch ;-) )
[14:50:45] louis_to :-)
[14:51:14] louis_to (In English, had I wanted to specify self, I would have said, supposedly, "I take your point.", but not all would use that locution.)
[14:51:28] jsc 2.2 is difficult to comment on without further background info
[14:52:06] CorNouws jsc: Yes, as Louis said: since Stefan is not here, nothing to discuss now
[14:52:09] louis_to yes, which is why we are also moving on. But, briefly, there have been extensiive trademark discussions, and these in this phase ST has been leading.
[14:52:35] louis_to As the issue has been in coordinating trademark interests of the community with those of the key distributors, such as Debian
[14:53:29] louis_to resolutions and agreements have been reached, and these were reached at OOoCon, but ST was to present these finally to the list and continue there. If you and any of the others here in the CC are not members of trademark@, please let me know, and I'll add you
[14:53:52] christoph_n Please add me. Thanks!
[14:53:58] louis_to it is an invite-only list but if someone requests who has a trademark interest, I do not decline
[14:54:12] jsc yes, please add me
[14:54:22] louis_to will do; Charles is already a subscriber
[14:54:43] louis_to okay, issue tabled until next meeting; moving on to 2.3
[14:54:52] louis_to Elections
[14:54:52] louis_to 1. Update (council webpage, notification to broader community)
[14:54:54] jsc i think it make sense to become informed if such things will be discussed here
[14:55:08] jsc thanks
[14:56:15] louis_to so, the things to do with elections include:
[14:56:24] louis_to update the council webpage with the changes the election made
[14:56:34] louis_to 2. notify the community
[14:56:47] jsc i can update the council page if you want
[14:56:52] louis_to 3. initiate phase 2 of the new election
[14:57:02] louis_to jsc: you may indeed be asked to do that :-)
[14:57:14] jpmcc I think we also wanted to revamp the CC webpage to make it a bit more 'friendly' - photos of CC members etc ...
[14:57:30] louis_to go for it; i was going to today, per André's hint, but then was on the phone in a meeting for last 1.5 hours
[14:57:39] louis_to jpmcc: go for it
[14:57:51] louis_to not a matter of "friendly" as much as a matter of "useful"
[14:58:07] christoph_n Proposal: I would like to have a look at it, so would it be okay to do a "minor update" until then?
[14:58:14] louis_to photos help, esp. if we can fake old persons' with old photos not new ones :-)
[14:58:29] christoph_n black/white pictures? ;-)
[14:58:36] louis_to yes: the key point is to update the page to reflect the changes
[14:58:48] louis_to christoph_n: nay, dageuerreotypes
[14:59:37] louis_to but, jsc: AI to update the council webpage as suggested and then christoph_n and others to improve the page altogether, making it friendly and useful(er)
[14:59:50] louis_to that means we should all probably donate photos of ourselves
[14:59:57] louis_to or at least images
[15:00:07] jpmcc http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v1562/223/93/680917627/s680917627_1082145_3000.jpg
[15:00:08] louis_to and we can even, if we want, start facebook (ugh)
[15:00:30] louis_to :-)
[15:00:35] louis_to okay, let's move on...
[15:00:35] _Nesshof_ jpmcc: :-)
[15:00:42] louis_to and discuss intiiating next election
[15:01:00] louis_to who is standing down for this next cycle?
[15:01:06] * jpmcc me
[15:01:18] louis_to paveljanik?
[15:02:05] louis_to ->paveljanik: ping
[15:02:12] CorNouws louis_to: afair: yes (he's probably doning some work)
[15:02:22] louis_to just pinged him
[15:02:30] * _Nesshof_ me
[15:02:34] louis_to okay
[15:02:50] louis_to wave next would be me, mhu
[15:02:59] mhu indeed
[15:03:14] CorNouws and me, already overdue nearly a year
[15:03:22] louis_to I would suggest then that we start the actual nomination process by end of next week and alert people that we shall be doing that
[15:03:41] louis_to CorNouws; I was not sure if you wanted to include your election with this wave or wait for a special CCR one
[15:03:44] louis_to but, okay
[15:03:51] mhu but, we wanted to leave some overlap to better transfer knowledge , right ?
[15:04:06] *** stx12 (n=st@84.142.76.251) has joined the channel
[15:04:07] louis_to yes, that's why the final wave won't be until probably Feb. or March
[15:04:10] CorNouws louis_to: I was talking about the next after the next
[15:04:11] louis_to hello, stx12!!
[15:04:41] stx12 good evenig, sorry for joining late... and just go ahead...
[15:04:47] louis_to stx12: we are discussing elections and skipped over item 2.2
[15:04:57] mhu stx12: safely at home ?
[15:04:59] jsc hi stefan, i hope the car is running ...
[15:05:07] CorNouws hi Stefan - great your car is repaired
[15:05:18] christoph_n Hi Stefan!
[15:05:24] paveljanik Hi stx12
[15:05:29] stx12 yes, with the help of the nice man from the german automobile club
[15:05:30] louis_to _Nesshof_, jpmcc: are you planning on running again for office?
[15:05:58] louis_to I would guess that paveljanik is not....?
[15:06:14] _Nesshof_ louis_to: I'm looking for a replacement for me, but if if fail I might running again
[15:06:23] louis_to _Nesshof_, jpmcc: no need to answer now, but personally, I value your contributions
[15:06:26] paveljanik I want to be replaced too, yes.
[15:06:32] louis_to okay.
[15:06:56] louis_to Can I ask that as part of the process, regardless of your future intentions, that you help in recruiting and informing new candidates?
[15:07:10] jpmcc but of course
[15:07:32] louis_to and I would suggest that we perhaps have, as once was sugagested, an open IRC meeting that would serve to inform and familiarize the community with what we do
[15:08:04] stx12 and if _Nesshof_ will not want to nominated we have to find a solution for the Team OOo board to be involved in the CC proceedings...
[15:08:48] louis_to We have the apparatus for SPI Advisor already in place, and Sophie and I are it; a similar office could be created for Team OOo
[15:09:08] jsc mmh, i am not sure if it helps but i ma at least a member of Team OOo
[15:10:10] louis_to okay, it may; but for now, I propose starting new elections with announcement for open candidacy next Thursday, with warning (alerts) this Friday
[15:10:20] mhu louis_to: that would be wrt budget, and I am still here ...
[15:10:20] louis_to to the usual big lists
[15:10:32] louis_to good :-)
[15:11:11] louis_to and further, I propose that we have an open meeting... perhaps a special one next Thursday as well? or week after?
[15:12:00] jsc with a special agenda?
[15:12:24] jsc or just focused on the upcoming election
[15:12:41] stx12 iirc martin proposed an open section in the beginnig of our meetings
[15:12:52] louis_to focused on upcoming election, no real agenda except a couple of points, as we addressed at Orvieto:
[15:13:04] louis_to who we are, what we do, what the community wants to learn of us and do
[15:13:17] jsc ok, thanks
[15:13:32] louis_to so, shall we vote on these proposals?
[15:13:41] louis_to elections: friday start with warning beforehand
[15:14:01] louis_to and b) open irc meeting (special one) thursday
[15:14:04] CorNouws louis_to: do you have indications that there is (a lot of) interest for this meeting already now?
[15:14:08] louis_to (sorry, changed days....)
[15:14:15] louis_to CorNouws: no
[15:14:33] CorNouws When I think at the OOoCOn Q&A ...
[15:14:35] louis_to so, if there is no interest, we have no meeting, and so must first determine interest....
[15:14:43] louis_to yes, but that's not really reprsentative, I hope
[15:14:51] CorNouws it tends to be one-way often, the wrong way as well :-)
[15:14:51] stx12 louis_to: i assume you discussed the final steps to close the old elections? this could raise some interest...
[15:15:07] louis_to stx12: which ones do you mean?
[15:15:22] stx12 message of the result to the broader community
[15:15:23] louis_to doubtless, I omitted some and await your insight :-)
[15:15:27] louis_to yes.
[15:15:32] stx12 good
[15:15:40] CorNouws stx12: that might help yes!
[15:15:52] * stx12 goes back in his dog house
[15:16:10] louis_to and that will be sent out tomorrow; and jsc agreed to update the webpage; and christoph_n along with jpmcc to look at making webpage for council friendlier and more useful, including photos of us all
[15:16:30] louis_to but I do want a mechansim, such as asking people to sign up if they will be there.....
[15:17:04] louis_to I htink we can see what response we do get, just by sending out notes to discuss@ and other lively lists
[15:18:34] stx12 then go ahead and offer the first (half an) hour of the next meeting; i'm not sure whether we can commit to an additional evening!?
[15:19:27] _Nesshof_ stx12: no additional meeting, please
[15:19:44] louis_to do the rest agree with _Nesshof_?
[15:19:53] louis_to if so, then it would be the next meeting, not a special meeting
[15:19:53] _Nesshof_ an additional chanell ooocouncilpub for the first half of the hoer
[15:19:56] christoph_n And if we really run out of time, we may repeat that. This should be a suffucient "mechanism"....
[15:20:02] CorNouws stx12: yes, the first half hour is OK for me
[15:20:15] christoph_n stx12: Okay.
[15:20:16] louis_to okay, then first half hour of next meeting not a special meeting
[15:20:32] mhu yes, half hour of meeting is fine with me, additional meeting slot difficult to find
[15:20:44] jsc fine for me as well
[15:20:45] paveljanik yes
[15:23:00] _Nesshof_ .
[15:23:15] mhu .
[15:23:25] louis_to so, regarding the other elements---notifce of election, call for nominations--the schedule is okay--?---and I'll send a draft that's a lot like the prior one, modulo the changes imposed by the diffs of roles and persons
[15:23:47] mhu schedule is fine for me
[15:23:50] stx12 and the mechanics of the election process...
[15:23:54] louis_to send draft to this list, that is
[15:23:57] louis_to yes.
[15:24:07] christoph_n okay
[15:24:41] louis_to stx12: what specific mechanics do you mean?
[15:24:54] jsc i am fine with it
[15:25:24] stx12 i'm too; but let's this time avoid confusion by inviting all people to vote
[15:25:36] jsc :-)
[15:26:33] CorNouws stx12: Yes. Only a note to the major lists, and full details to the lists where people are that may vote
[15:26:40] louis_to English is such a confusing language. stx12: do you mean, by *not* inviting all to vote, yes?
[15:27:11] louis_to because that was the confusing error before
[15:27:24] CorNouws louis_to: Only a note to the major lists, and full details to the lists where people are that may vote
[15:27:29] stx12 louis_to: correct
[15:27:30] louis_to agreed
[15:27:39] * louis_to hates English
[15:28:04] louis_to English lacks coherence where it counts.....
[15:28:05] louis_to anyway
[15:28:14] * mhu thinks spanish would not make things easier :-)
[15:28:26] jsc louis_to: which language do you prefer?
[15:28:31] CorNouws My Italian is better ATM :-)
[15:28:34] louis_to actually, it would; but let's move back to either 2.2, trademark
[15:28:43] mhu :-)
[15:28:45] louis_to with stx12 giving short summary
[15:29:01] louis_to or move on to 2.4, internships
[15:29:11] louis_to stx12: can you supply the short summary?
[15:29:15] mhu right, lets move on
[15:29:26] CorNouws 2.4 nothing new to say
[15:29:35] louis_to CorNouws: hold on a second
[15:29:41] CorNouws Jürgen and I will work on it soon
[15:29:54] louis_to I'd like to finish 2.2
[15:30:18] stx12 i have yet looked in the orvieto minutes; the status has not much changed or than a restart of the guidelines for logo use to point directly to the site or unmodified product.
[15:30:38] *** jpmcc has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[15:30:52] stx12 I would recommend to read john's minutes first and then i'm happy to update or hopefully provide news
[15:31:11] stx12 btw, we should add new cc members to trademark@council (my AI)
[15:31:13] louis_to stx12: was there resolution of issues at Orvieto?
[15:31:20] louis_to stx12: yes, already agreed to do that
[15:31:26] stx12 where there issues?
[15:31:30] louis_to if you want to do it, please go ahead
[15:31:53] *** jpmcc (n=chatzill@92-235-187-79.cable.ubr18.sgyl.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined the channel
[15:31:54] louis_to reconciliation of positions vis-a-vis OOo and distributor stakeholders
[15:31:55] stx12 yes, i will.
[15:32:09] louis_to add the new members? okay
[15:33:04] louis_to if no other update to 2.2, then indeed let's move onto 2.4
[15:33:09] stx12 there are concerns and there proposed solutions / workarounds; this will come up on trademark@ciuncil again soon
[15:33:16] louis_to ah, okay
[15:33:18] louis_to thanks
[15:33:28] louis_to so, 2.4: jsc and CorNouws will work in this
[15:33:49] louis_to fwiw, I'm to meet with Seneca people later next week
[15:34:20] louis_to and can say that there is lively interest in this sort of program (internships) in Vietnam and elsewhere
[15:35:24] louis_to so, I'd like to know --sure all would-- what sort of resources we have or will have at our disposal and what expectations we can promote
[15:35:49] louis_to but we can discuss this on the appropriate list, no?
[15:35:59] mhu yes
[15:36:03] jsc yes
[15:36:25] jpmcc is the "appropriate list" the Education project?
[15:36:33] louis_to jpmcc: my query, too
[15:36:53] mhu contests@marketing ?
[15:37:24] stx12 mentoring@<iforgottheproject> ?
[15:37:26] jsc well i think we should combine this with the ongoing efforts in the education project anyway. Although the work with some individuals might be difficult
[15:37:42] jsc or we should at least check if it make sense to combine it
[15:37:59] mhu mentoring@openoffice.org
[15:38:15] jpmcc I don't know whether the EP sees its remit as promoting the use of OOo in the education sector and/or educating new developers in OOo?
[15:38:20] CorNouws louis_to: "what expectations we can promote" ... remeber discussion at Orvieto?
[15:40:14] mhu wrt education project, not sure which way it is going / forking ... so, dont know whether that would be the right place to discuss
[15:40:16] louis_to I would suggest checking with education. I would rather they not entirely fork but rather work with the community and its aims. As it is, there is the OOo4kids
[15:40:55] louis_to and woudl rather bring them back in, or clarify their intentions.
[15:41:11] jsc you raise an important point. If they really want to fork we have to address this.
[15:41:14] louis_to I dislike the current friction and would rather resolve it
[15:41:14] mhu yes, that would be best (bring them back)
[15:41:16] louis_to yes.
[15:41:42] louis_to but if they do not want to be brought back, then they are good to go, as it were, tho that would be unfortunate
[15:41:46] jsc we should remind the project lead about his role
[15:42:01] mhu jsc: right
[15:42:03] jsc the edu project is too important from my point of view
[15:42:07] louis_to Indeed. but that is a differeernt discusison, perhaps?
[15:42:13] louis_to different discussion, I mean
[15:42:39] louis_to jsc: until recently, the education project was summarily ignored
[15:42:50] louis_to and when charles, sophie, I led it, it was simply marginal
[15:42:59] jsc the same is true for OOo4Kids beause the idea is not new and it is a sub project of the edu project
[15:43:14] louis_to however, I would as before like to centralize it so that it functions as the pivot for developer education, esp. of students
[15:43:29] louis_to OOo4kids is seen as a license fork, no?
[15:43:40] louis_to and that is unfortunate
[15:44:21] jsc it looks so but can we accept it? As i mentioned it is a sub project of the edu project
[15:44:25] louis_to so, I would propose that ideally we want mentoring@education but before we do that, we must clarify the role and function of the education project within the OOo enterprise
[15:44:28] jsc i think no
[15:44:30] CorNouws louis_to: as someone said: that is a different subject
[15:44:39] CorNouws apart from that: it is not on our agenda
[15:44:50] CorNouws so we can prepare that for another meeting ??
[15:44:57] louis_to CorNouws: right, but we are discussing now where the list is that we should discuss on
[15:45:09] louis_to and I'd rather not create a new list
[15:45:24] CorNouws Remeber the discussion we had in Orvieto about expectations?
[15:45:36] louis_to but for this particular discussion, it may make sense, then, to use something like mentoring@ooo
[15:45:38] mhu isn't the internship item related to this edu question ?
[15:45:54] * louis_to would much rather CorNouws actually spell out what he intends than to rely on the memory of those not there
[15:46:05] louis_to mhu: precisely
[15:46:30] jpmcc "Resource constraints in Sun mean there is no-one currently available. If Community funded a backfill could that release a core developer? Stefan recommends marketing activity should be directed at attracting extension developers rather than core. AI: Martin to put together a proposal for hiring a technical writer to document getting started on OOo development. Agreed to continue with...
[15:46:32] jpmcc ..."Winter of Code" - AI: Cor to own and cry for help if required."
[15:46:37] louis_to and to pretend it is not seems to me to re-iterate what I hope we do not want, the marginallization of education
[15:48:29] CorNouws jpmcc: thanks for quoting from the minutes ;-)
[15:48:30] jsc i suggest to move forward with mentoring@openoffice.org and let us search the communication with the edu leads
[15:50:04] louis_to I+1
[15:50:24] louis_to the issue here is that if we commit to a list X and then want to move to list Y, it's a pain
[15:51:06] louis_to but do we all agree to use the new list, mentoring@ooo for now?
[15:51:28] mhu okay to go ahead ( I seem to be subscribed to both mentoring@ and contests@ :-) )
[15:52:08] louis_to no doubt; I may have set up mentoring back in 2001.... when i filed an issue against _Nesshof_ to lead this :-)
[15:52:19] louis_to but cannot recall
[15:52:24] jsc louis_to: sorry for the confusion, i can live with contest@... as well
[15:52:38] louis_to CorNouws: do you have a preference?
[15:53:04] jsc but it seems that mentoring@... is not new and we can use it ;-
[15:53:39] CorNouws no
[15:53:40] louis_to ping to others... wake up?
[15:54:08] louis_to Then, for this, I'd like us to use mentoring@openoffice.org and keep contests@ for... contests
[15:54:17] christoph_n I'm fine with mentoring...
[15:54:20] louis_to and if and when it is better to use education lists, to migrte discusssions there
[15:54:36] mhu +1
[15:54:39] louis_to any objections to useing mentoring@ ?
[15:54:49] _Nesshof_ no
[15:54:51] stx12 no
[15:55:01] jsc no
[15:55:03] christoph_n no
[15:55:41] paveljanik no
[15:55:51] mhu no
[15:55:54] louis_to okay, I'd like to add an agenda item: to inform and reconcile with the goals of the overall Project the leads of the Education Project.
[15:56:31] mhu yes
[15:56:36] CorNouws louis_to: for one of the next meetings: +1
[15:56:41] louis_to implicit here is to listen to objections, issues, etc.; and then to see about moving forward with a program that brings in the efforts of the edu project
[15:56:49] jsc thanks, it's really important form my point of view
[15:56:53] louis_to yes; it will take a good time
[15:57:00] CorNouws have to leave soon
[15:57:15] CorNouws its important, but not urgent
[15:57:18] jpmcc I have to be away by 21:00 UTC
[15:57:23] louis_to the conditions are that our goals, etc. need to be clarified, as do the conditions that violate them
[15:57:33] CorNouws better prepare our selves well before starting a chaotic discussion
[15:57:35] louis_to okay, shall we table the rest of the items?
[15:57:59] jsc +1
[15:58:02] louis_to yes, that's why I think we need to be prepared with our specific goals and be prepared to offer guidance as well as willing ears
[15:58:07] CorNouws I'm rather interested when you will finish your AI's ...
[15:58:12] louis_to For now, I'd like to add this AI
[15:58:16] louis_to "your"=Louis?
[15:58:21] CorNouws No not a new one pls
[15:58:30] CorNouws the old ones first
[15:58:34] louis_to now that I'm no longer stuck on a plane in economy, probably sooner than later :-)
[15:58:39] CorNouws louis_to: yes of course
[15:59:01] * louis_to thought that stx12: was our new nanny? ;-)
[15:59:19] mhu let's finish for now, it's getting late ...
[15:59:19] stx12 sure, but that doesn't close AIs...
[15:59:46] CorNouws all CC members have the right to ask for decent handling
[15:59:48] louis_to okay, for me, the drafts, etc., by Tuesday
[16:00:24] jpmcc Tues 01 Dec 09?
[16:00:24] louis_to meanwhile, I'd urge the rest of us to review the AIs and provide an update
[16:00:29] jsc for me the update of the CC site, Louis can you send me the info which project i have to checkout for the web site?
[16:00:37] louis_to I'd also like to see if we can use a wiki to update our AIs, as I use in other projects
[16:00:41] louis_to that is quite convenient
[16:00:46] stx12 jsc: council/www
[16:00:47] jsc and give me the necessary permissions if i don't have them already
[16:00:54] jsc thanks
[16:01:33] CorNouws have to leave now ... thanks to all, all :-) bye bye
[16:01:34] louis_to all of you should have access (content dev) to the council stie, or if not content dev, then an equivalent role
[16:01:40] *** CorNouws has left the channel ()
[16:01:42] jsc bye Cor
[16:01:50] stx12 bye
[16:01:51] jpmcc Must go too I'm afraid - I can catch up via the log
[16:01:53] louis_to regarding wiki for AIs.... I think it's useful to have an arragement like that
[16:01:59] *** jpmcc has quit IRC ("Night night")
[16:02:14] *** mhu has quit IRC ("bye, good night evening afternoon ...")
[16:02:15] louis_to but for now, I'd like to call the meeting adjourned and table remaining AIs and items for next meeting
</pre>

Community Council

2009-10-31T17:11:37Z

LouisSuarez: /* Elections 2009 */

== Introduction ==

The origins and purpose of the OpenOffice.org Community Council are explained on the [http://council.openoffice.org/ main Community Council site], where you will also find a list of the current members.

These wiki pages are used to record the day to day running of the Council - agendas and minutes of meetings, budgets, etc.

== Meetings ==

* To raise an issue at the next Community Council Meeting, add it to the [[Community_Council/Agenda | Agenda of the next meeting]]. You must be an OpenOffice.org community member. The term, "Community Member," is described in our [http://www.openoffice.org/dev_docs/guidelines.html Guidelines].
* Minutes of past meetings are [[Community_Council/Minutes | here]]
* A Calendar of future meetings is [[Community_Council/Calendar | here]]
* Channel: #OOoCouncil (freenode)

== Council coordinator ==

Starting from May 28 2009, the council works with a internal coordinator.

The idea:
* appoint a council coordinator every 4 to 5 months
* he/she is chosen from the council members
* no formal change of rules intended.
Responsibility during that time:
* looking after planning, progress of AI's
* so basically: poking the colleagues ;-)
Expected:
* will improve overall cc-performance
* will help to share the feeling of really being part of, of joined responsibility
Approved:
* Cor Nouws is the first to take this role
* Stefan Taxhet will be the next
* and in 4 months, the third person for this fine job will be choosen

== Budget ==

Information about the Community Council budget and payments procedure is [[Community_Council/Funding_And_Budgets | here]].

== Improving the project ==

Watch and help the page for [[Community_Council/Project_Improvements | improvements in the project]].

== Elections 2009 ==

We have begun the new election cycle in accordance with the [http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Items/Election_Process_Proposal Election Process]. The [http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Items/call_for_nominations_20091013 Call for Nominations] has been posted to the wiki and sent out to the lists. Information about the candidates for the November election can be found at http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Items/Candidates_October_2009

[[Category:Community Council]]

Community Council/Items/Candidates October 2009

2009-10-28T04:42:27Z

LouisSuarez: Created page with '== Candidates for Community Council Election October-November 2009 == The following Community members have accepted nominations from other members. They are all well known by th…'

== Candidates for Community Council Election October-November 2009 ==

The following Community members have accepted nominations from other members. They are all well known by the Community, and for that reason, we have decided, with their agreement, to shorten the introductory period. Voting for these candidates will commence as early as Thursday 29 October, though a delay until Friday 30 Oct. is not implausible.

'''Note''': The candidates are to represent specific constituencies, which are represented on the Council: Product Development, Code Contributor, Native Language Confederation (Native-Lang). Although the candidates will be elected to fill a particular seat, any OpenOffice.org Community member can vote for any candidate, regardless of the voter's role in the Community. In other words, you need not be a developer or code contributor to vote for a Code Contributor candidate, and so on.

We do ask, however, that when you actually cast your vote, you are doing so informed and with the understanding that the Council represents you.

=== Native Language Confederation (NLC) Representative ===

* [[User:southerncross|Charles-H.Schulz]] - [http://native-lang.openoffice.org NLC Lead], OpenDocument Format advocate. [http://www.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=64992 Acceptance]

=== Product Development Representative ===
* Christoph Noack. [http://ux.openoffice.org/ Co-Lead, User Experience Project].
** [http://www.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=65067 Acceptance]

* [[User:Jza|Alexandro Colorado]], Longtime Co-Lead, Spanish Language Project, Co-Lead, [http://bizdev.openoffice.org/ BizDev], Co-Lead [http://education.openoffice.org/ Education], Lead, [http://certification.openoffice.org/ Certification].
** [http://www.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=6499 Acceptance]

=== Code Contributor Representative ===

* [[User:Jsc|Juergen Schmidt]] - [http://api.openoffice.org API Project Lead], [http://extensions.openoffice.org Extensions Project Co-Lead]
** [http://www.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=65088 Acceptance]

[[Category:Community_Council/Items]]

Bios

2009-10-28T04:11:57Z

LouisSuarez: /* Native Lang / L10N */

This page is for the bios and pictures of the OpenOffice.org project leads.

=== Native Lang / L10N ===
* [[User:Rescue| Joey Stanford]] - [http://eo.openoffice.org Esperanto Team]
* [[User:southerncross|Charles-H.Schulz]] - [http://native-lang.openoffice.org NLC Lead]
* [[User:louis| Louis Suárez-Potts]] - [http://native-lang.openoffice.org NLC Co-Lead]
* [[User:Jcorrius|Jesús Corrius]] - [http://ca.openoffice.org Catalan Native Language / Catalan L10N Lead]
* [[User:Jza|Alexandro Colorado]] - [http://es.openoffice.org Spanish Native Language Lead]
* [[User:markomlm|Marko Moeller]] - [http://de.openoffice.org German Native Language Co-Lead]
* [[User:laonux|Anousak Souphavanh]] - [http://lo.openoffice.org Lao Native Language Lead]
* [[User:ScottCarr|Scott Carr]] - [http://documentation.openoffice.org Documentation Co-Lead]
* [[User:Richard|Richard Holt]] - [http://es.openoffice.org Spanish Native Language Co-Lead]
* [[User:Richard|Richard Holt]] - [http://lingucomponent.openoffice.org Lingucomponent Project Co-Lead]
* [[User:Gorkem|Görkem Çetin]] - [http://www.openoffice.org.tr Turkish Native Language Lead]
* [[User:Ccornell|Clayton Cornell]] - [http://documentation.openoffice.org Documentation Lead]
* [[User:jpmcc|John McCreesh]] - [http://marketing.openoffice.org Marketing Project Lead]
* [[User:Kevin Scannell|Kevin Scannell]] - [http://ga.openoffice.org Irish Native Language Lead]
* [[User:Hristo Hristov|Hristo Hristov]] - [http://bg.openoffice.org Bulgarian Native Language Lead]
* [[User:Timarandras|Andras Timar]] - [http://hu.openoffice.org Hungarian Native Language Lead]
* [[User:Lodahl|Leif Lodahl]] - [http://da.openoffice.org Danish Native Language Lead]

=== Development ===

* [[User:mba|Mathias Bauer]] - [http://framework.openoffice.org Application Framework Project Lead]
* [[User:mh|Martin Hollmichel]] - [http://tools.openoffice.org Tools Project Lead], [http://porting.openoffice.org Porting Project Lead]
* [[User:nn|Niklas Nebel]] - [http://sc.openoffice.org Spreadsheet Project Lead]
* [[User:ericb| Eric Bachard]] - [http://education.openoffice.org Education Project Lead, dev for Porting Project (Mac OS X porting project), vcl, Impress hacker]
* [[User:Jsc|Jürgen Schmidt]] - [http://api.openoffice.org API Project Lead], [http://extensions.openoffice.org Extensions Project Co-Lead]
* [[User:Sb|Stephan Bergmann]] - [http://udk.openoffice.org UDK Project Co-Lead]

=== Bibliographic ===

* [[dnw-bios|David Wilson]] - Co-Lead Bibliographic Project
* [[User:Bdarcus|Bruce D'Arcus]] - Co-Lead Bibliographic Project

Community Council

2009-10-13T15:06:11Z

LouisSuarez:

== Introduction ==

The origins and purpose of the OpenOffice.org Community Council are explained on the [http://council.openoffice.org/ main Community Council site], where you will also find a list of the current members.

These wiki pages are used to record the day to day running of the Council - agendas and minutes of meetings, budgets, etc.

== Meetings ==

* To raise an issue at the next Community Council Meeting, add it to the [[Community_Council/Agenda | Agenda of the next meeting]]. You must be an OpenOffice.org community member. The term, "Community Member," is described in our [http://www.openoffice.org/dev_docs/guidelines.html Guidelines].
* Minutes of past meetings are [[Community_Council/Minutes | here]]
* A Calendar of future meetings is [[Community_Council/Calendar | here]]
* Channel: #OOoCouncil (freenode)

== Council coordinator ==

Starting from May 28 2009, the council works with a internal coordinator.

The idea:
* appoint a council coordinator every 4 to 5 months
* he/she is chosen from the council members
* no formal change of rules intended.
Responsibility during that time:
* looking after planning, progress of AI's
* so basically: poking the colleagues ;-)
Expected:
* will improve overall cc-performance
* will help to share the feeling of really being part of, of joined responsibility
Approved:
* Cor Nouws is the first to take this role
* Stefan Taxhet will be the next
* and in 4 months, the third person for this fine job will be choosen

== Budget ==

Information about the Community Council budget and payments procedure is [[Community_Council/Funding_And_Budgets | here]].

== Improving the project ==

Watch and help the page for [[Community_Council/Project_Improvements | improvements in the project]].

== Elections 2009 ==

We have begun the new election cycle in accordance with the [http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Items/Election_Process_Proposal Election Process]. The [http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Items/call_for_nominations_20091013 Call for Nominations] has been posted to the wiki and sent out to the lists.

[[Category:Community Council]]

Community Council/Items/call for nominations 20091013

2009-10-13T14:45:56Z

LouisSuarez: Created page with 'All: A new election cycle for the Community Council begins now. We, the Council members, hope that we can meet the new members in Orvieto, Italy, at OOoCon 2009 early this Novem…'

All:

A new election cycle for the Community Council begins now. We, the Council members, hope that we can meet the new members in Orvieto, Italy, at OOoCon 2009 early this November. To do that, however, we may have to bend the timing rules a little and accelerate things when possible. But for now.....

This election cycle inaugurates a new Community Council. Not only will we have one more member (to 10) but what we do has changed over the year and we have now a greater ability to promote OpenOffice.org around the world. Being part of the Council is to be part of the governing board of what is widely understood to be one of the most important Free and Open Source Software projects in the world. We urge you to join us.

== Call for Nominations ==

On behalf of the Community Council, I would like to announce the new round of elections for the Council and start the process by asking the OpenOffice.org Community members to nominate those they think would best contribute both to the Council and to the OpenOffice.org Community.

You may nominate yourself. We define membership in our Guidelines. [0] This election cycle, one of several, begins with this call for nominations. After a week, candidates will present themselves and then we will vote. We detail all this in the Election Process wiki.

A copy of this message will be posted tohttp://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/council/items/call_for_nominations_20091013.

* '''The period for nominations ends 24:00 UTC 20 October.'''

== About the Council ==

The Council is our governing board and among other things, it helps resolve conflict among projects and people and develop guidelines for the smooth operation and growth of the Community. Our charter explains what we can and cannot do.[1] The current members are lighted on the Council's home page. [2]

Until now, the Council's work has been fairly quiet and its scope limited. But as the OOo project has matured and grown, our focus has evolved. For instance, we now have in place procedures for budgeting and allocating funds for a variety of Community-sponsored events and doings. (These funds derive from donations given by users as they download OpenOffice.org or otherwise independent expressions of support and satisfaction; the funds are the Community's, held in trust by the Council.)

For this cycle, two standing Council members need to be replaced and one fresh member to be elected.

* Sophie Gautier and André Schnabel, both exemplary contributors to the Project and Council and membersofOpenOffice.org almost since its inception, have resigned, effective upon their replacement. I do not think that we, the Council and the Community, can thank them enough for their achievements in makingOpenOffice.org the community and global force that it is. My thanks to them both.

== Rules ==

The rules for the process are detailed in a wiki on the subject. [3] This election inaugurates a new Council, as the number of members has changed, from nine to ten, as has their characterization.

Several categories of OpenOffice.org contributors make up the Council membership. Those categories cover the breadth of OpenOffice.org. All but one, the permanent Sun representative, are elected by community vote. In this cycle, one of the Native Language Confederation Representative (aka "Lang") seats (there are two) is up for election. As well, we are asking for nominations for one Code Contributor Representative and one Product Development Representative.

* The point of the categories of representatives is to ensure that the breadth of OpenOffice.org is represented and that its key constituencies find a voice on the Council. We are not saying nor do we wish to imply that you can only nominate and vote for someone in your constituency. Rather, we hope and anticipate that the work done by developers, marketers, translators, document writers, localizers, and so many of the other contributors constituting our varied constituencies is represented on the Council. We will thus strive to promote the election process on the relevant lists, as I detail below.

The nomination process starts now and ends 20 October (24:00 UTC). Nominations and the attendant discussions should be conducted on popular public lists, such as discuss@openoffice.org, dev@openoffice.org and so on.

We will be using tried and true technology for the actual voting: the Survey machine; only Community Members will be allowed to vote. Results will be posted in accordance with the published Election Process; the address will be on the Council wiki, as well as sent to the various lists below.

The details for the process demand attention and we ask that you spend some time going over the Election Process wiki.

* As I mentioned above, we are hoping to conclude this cycle by early November. That will mean shortening part of the process a little, but which part has not been determined yet. If we cannot shorten the process and still keep everything satisfactory, then we won't.

* Note: We have yet to identify our observers but for the purposes of this election, I shall serve as commissary.

This announcement will be posted to the relevant public lists, as detailed in the Election Process wiki:dev@openoffice.org, dev@nativ_lang.openoffice.org, discuss@openoffice.org as well as dev@l10n.openoffice.organd project_leads@openoffice.org.

Regards,

Louis

[0] http://www.openoffice.org/dev_docs/guidelines.html
[1] http://council.openoffice.org/councilcharter12.html#PowersoftheCouncil
[2] http://council.openoffice.org/councilcharter12.html#CouncilMembers
[3] http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Items/Election_Process_Proposal

--
Louis Suarez-Potts, PhD
Community Manager, Sun Microsystems, Inc.
OpenOffice.org

Community Council Log 20090709

2009-07-09T20:00:38Z

LouisSuarez: /* IRC Log of Community Council Meeting 2009-06-25 */

== IRC Log of Community Council Meeting 2009-07-09 ==

'''Attendees'''

* Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
* Pavel Janik (paveljanik)
* Stefan Taxhet (stx12)
* Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
* John McCreesh (jpmcc)
* Louis Suarez-Potts (oulipo_to)

''' Absent '''
* Sophie Gautier
* André Schnabel
* Martin Hollmichel

<pre>

oulipo_to begin, that is
oulipo_to Stefan, can you locate the previous meeting minutes and AIs?
oulipo_to in the meanwhile....
oulipo_to using this link,
oulipo_to http://209.85.135.132/search?q=cache:YqN1gCgthJAJ:wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/The_OpenOffice.org_Community_Council_Agenda+openoffice.org+council+agenda&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=firefox-a
* paveljanik is semi-here. Please do not ping me via private messages
oulipo_to http://preview.tinyurl.com/knefru
stx12 http://209.85.129.132/search?q=cache:qEZkq4aBy5oJ:wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council_Minutes+openoffice.org+Community+Council+Minutes+of+Meetings&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=firefox-a
oulipo_to thanks
stx12 you mean this?
oulipo_to yes
CorNouws paveljanik: what does "semi-here" mean?
oulipo_to thanks
oulipo_to do we approve of previous session's minutes?
oulipo_to please indicate with +1/-1
oulipo_to eg, +1
oulipo_to (though I was absent then)
oulipo_to assuming that unanimous silence = +1..
CorNouws +1
oulipo_to let's move on to #2, Action items from previous meeting
stx12 btw the wiki is back
oulipo_to whoope
oulipo_to 2.1: Budget: Louis to use marcons list for events
oulipo_to STATUS: IN PROGRESS
oulipo_to (am using capitals to make it easier to find)
oulipo_to 2.2: Stefan to discuss the trademark issue with Debian adn give feedback
oulipo_to Stefan?
stx12 a call is scheduled for tomorrow with debian representatives, bernhard and sun legal.
oulipo_to stx12: can you include me in that call, please?
stx12 oulipo_to: sure, see your inbox
oulipo_to thanks
oulipo_to report then for list and for updates in next meeting
oulipo_to STATUS: IN PROGRESS FOR 2.1
oulipo_to Let's move on to 2.2: review of trademakr policy by list (?) start discussion on list
oulipo_to is that accurate for 2.2?
oulipo_to it seems incomplete to me
CorNouws I read "then with comments on list: review by the cc , and then start discussion on discuss@"
stx12 aehm; this reads to me as "then with comments on list: review by the cc , and then start discussion on discuss@ "
oulipo_to of the debian call? or of trademark generally?
oulipo_to that's my question
CorNouws General
oulipo_to okay, so after debian call and report we discuss trademark policy on the list
oulipo_to STATUS: IN PROGRESS, then
oulipo_to shall we move to 3.0?
oulipo_to 3.1; halion72 (and mhu is goning to help) to send to louis (and jpmcc) proposal for elections announcement for editing, writing, etc. (around May 30)
oulipo_to 3.2 is update
oulipo_to I have not heard (I believe) from Thalion on this
oulipo_to is he on holiday?
mhu I have not heard of Andre, and missed to ping him
oulipo_to Let's ping him now?
CorNouws hmmm obviously it has not been done
oulipo_to ;just sent ping
oulipo_to STATUS: UNCLEAR BUT IN PROGRESS
oulipo_to moving on to 4.0
oulipo_to OpenOffice.org Internship
oulipo_to 4.1 Cor (et all): Start of the public process (announcement etc.) asap
oulipo_to Cor, et al., update?
CorNouws No time found for that by me and Florian
CorNouws so hope to be able to do it soon
CorNouws therefore no update ATM
oulipo_to CorNouws; I can add some things / items to that related to education efforts
oulipo_to where is the discussion taking place between you and Florian?
oulipo_to I need to report on this regarding Seneca, China, and other areas where it intersects with mentoring/internships
CorNouws contests@marketing.openoffice.org
oulipo_to ah.
oulipo_to thanks
oulipo_to AI: LOUIS: TO SEND TO CONTESTS@MARKETING UPDATE ON SENECA COLLEGE, CHINA (TSINGHUA) AND OTHERS FOR INTERNSHIP AND MENTORING
mhu okay, I just sent private email to Andre.
oulipo_to mhu: thanks
oulipo_to STATUS 4.2: IN PROGRESS
oulipo_to moving on to 5....
oulipo_to 5.1: L10n infrastructure
oulipo_to 1. André: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839 , and discuss with Florian
oulipo_to 5.2: (See remarks in the log from cloph)
CorNouws Sorry, I've been both away and far toooo busy before, to contact André about the status
oulipo_to the status of this is unclear to me
oulipo_to Cor: that's okay; your workload is awesome and your business takes precedence, I should hope
oulipo_to but do we have an update on the general policy and logistics of this request?
oulipo_to perhaps from stefan?
CorNouws no, the ball is at André's feet
oulipo_to what does Andre have to do?
stx12 there is no status change; there is an idea on the table how we handle the large amount of data for localized builds and andre was going to discuss it with florian, joost, ...
CorNouws and André wanted to continue that process
oulipo_to I see. Is there an urgency here?
CorNouws André probably will not mind if someone else does
CorNouws he is quite busy with QA-discussions
oulipo_to I mean, this issue to me is not new; we've had to confront it numerous times, I thought
oulipo_to can we perhaps simply then proceed with Florian, if he has time and also others involved, such as Joost and Stefan?
stx12 and we will be faced with it if/when a 2.4.3rc should ever be prepared...
CorNouws oulipo_to: I suggest to ask André
oulipo_to Yes.
oulipo_to CorNouws: will do
oulipo_to doine
oulipo_to done, I mean
oulipo_to moving on to 6.
oulipo_to OpenOffice.org Certification
oulipo_to 1. all: continue discussion via mail wthin next day's
oulipo_to 2. goal is to come to decission asap
oulipo_to who can do #3: update?
oulipo_to Cor?
CorNouws This morning I've send out the mail on the CC list, and ...
CorNouws I've seen and moderated, but not yet read, a long response from Evan on the questions and remarks we discussed with the council members before
CorNouws So that runs, IMO
oulipo_to yes, same here
oulipo_to evan has a great gift for language :-(
* oulipo_to which lsp shares, alas
* mhu thinks Evan's response reads good
oulipo_to mhu: it does. he's a wonderful writer an clearly enjoys writing
oulipo_to alas
oulipo_to STATUS 6.1 ETC. IN PROGRESS
CorNouws So I expect replies / remarks / questions from CC members the next days
jpmcc By chance, I received a letter from a company in Italy who are interested in offering OOo certification...
mhu I meant not only language, but also content :-)
oulipo_to jpmcc: and I in China
* stx12 would prefer concise facts
oulipo_to stx12: we all would :-)
jpmcc ...I ran the idea of OOo certification past them in case they were inetrested in being a founding partner...
* oulipo_to is big infractor as he always sends his boss long letters that must tax his patience
oulipo_to jpmcc: and?
* oulipo_to did same...
jpmcc ...they are very interested, but would like to split the cake differently...
oulipo_to hm. j
jpmcc ...Mauizio's English is not wonderful, but we would want OOo to set the syllabus and the exams and contract out the rest to local / national organisations...
oulipo_to I suspect that's true of many
oulipo_to jpmcc: I think we'd need more information of a precise nature
oulipo_to as all of this must be ordained by contract of a legal nature
jpmcc ...his company being one. He says they have over 500 accredited training centres and systems to support them.
oulipo_to hm.
oulipo_to I suggest we discuss this on the relevant list or with relevant parties. Query: is it relevant to approval or disapproval of the basic idea?
jpmcc I can forward you all his email - it's in html, so I dont't think I can do it via the list.
oulipo_to ie, a CC-authorized org. that certifies companies?
oulipo_to jpmcc: thanks
jpmcc oulipo_to: +1 to the general principle
oulipo_to i think in discussions we should clarify precisely the boundaries of the CC and organization regarding such certification, eg., would the cc dive into content or relegate itself as previously decided to guidelines?
oulipo_to but that is in the "details" bucket
oulipo_to yet very important
oulipo_to I suggest we move on to 7.0
CorNouws at the moment I see no problems, why the CC could handle with more parties
CorNouws as long as the certification work they do, is clear and good
oulipo_to and hold cert. discussions on the relevant list
jpmcc After reading Maurizio's email, I wonder if a 'one size fits all' would work worldwide. The main thing is to get keen partners.
oulipo_to CorNouws: but it matters how much work we can sustain and how much flexiblity we allow
CorNouws so the ideas we discuss with Alexandro and Evan
CorNouws are important for all later enquries, I would guess
oulipo_to jpmcc: indeed; and that is also one reason I prefer guidelines, at least at this moement
oulipo_to CorNouws: yes
CorNouws so if some want us a lot of work to do, it might be that we cannot endorse them
oulipo_to my desire is to ensure wide flexibility and local agility
jpmcc oulipo_to: I'd be in favour of 'light touch' governance, and leave our certification team free to experiment, make mistakes, etc.
oulipo_to jpmcc: agreed
CorNouws whereas when others do muchg themselves, it is easier to proceed
oulipo_to CorNouws, jpmcc: we are all in agreement here
CorNouws this all within the borders of quality and so
oulipo_to "light touch" rules
oulipo_to provided quality is paramount
oulipo_to :-)
oulipo_to let's move on to 7.x
CorNouws OK, then we can proceed with the currect request from A & E
oulipo_to Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
oulipo_to 1. Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
oulipo_to My apologies to Cor
oulipo_to I'll send the document today; it's very simple
jpmcc I like the idea of monitoring quality through user feedback ... this would be one argument for keeping the final issuing of the certificate in-house - we could use that as an opportunity to get feedback from students about their experience.
oulipo_to and was already discussed in a prior CC meeting: status quo codified and then approval by CC
oulipo_to STATUS 7.X: IN PROGRESS AND TO BE DONE 07/09 TO LIST
oulipo_to jpmcc: a long time ago, Stefan suggested an ebay like structure for user feedback for such things
oulipo_to we didn't have the technology then. Now we do
oulipo_to moving on to 8.x
oulipo_to it seems a lot like 7.x
oulipo_to but it reads: Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
oulipo_to 1. Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting
oulipo_to STATUS: IN PROGRESS 8.X
stx12 8 is about project retirement IIRC
oulipo_to but that is what 7 says it's about
oulipo_to no matter; the basic document will accommodate both points
oulipo_to shall we move on to 3.0?
oulipo_to 3.0: OOoCon 2009
oulipo_to 1. Update
oulipo_to 2. Any special preparations AFA-the CC-IC ?
CorNouws 2.9?
CorNouws Not yet done, but did adapt the shedule on the wiki, with a remark wrt my proposal.
CorNouws see http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Calendar
oulipo_to 2.9 is next meeting schedule and will be sent by cor to list as voila
oulipo_to i mean, voici
oulipo_to thanks, CorNouws!
oulipo_to and I can attest that wiki does work
oulipo_to but, to return then to 3.0....
oulipo_to yes?
* mhu wonders what "AFA-the CC-IC" abbreviations may mean ...
* oulipo_to was hoping someone smart would know...
* oulipo_to has his hopes dashed :-/
CorNouws as fas as the CC is concered, I guess
oulipo_to ah. cool
mhu huhuuuu :-)
CorNouws but honestly, I do not remember if I added that, or not...
oulipo_to Orwell would find acronym-speak very disturbing indeed.
oulipo_to it's worse than newspeak
CorNouws :-D
mhu new speech, wasn't it ?
oulipo_to but, anyway, John, do you (yes, you are right, mhu) have report on OOoCon?
jpmcc http://tinyurl.com/ooocon - CfP issued - 18 volunteers signed up as reviewers
oulipo_to thanks
oulipo_to I have to sign up, too
oulipo_to I can send note to project_leads...
jpmcc Already sent
mhu do we need more than 18 reviewers ? I could help too, if that was needed
jpmcc One of the reasons for using OCS was that it would support more reviewers who could give better feedback to speakers
* stx12 is a bit unsure about the duties and responsibilities of a reviewer.
mhu ...but 18 already sounds like many, compared to past years
oulipo_to mhu: my guess is that the actual number will be less
oulipo_to easy to sign up, another thing altogether to do
jpmcc stx12: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/OOoCon_Reviewing
mhu Ah, yes, well. I may then sign up as well.
oulipo_to other updates?
jpmcc http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/OOoCon_2009_CfR
oulipo_to eg, sponsorshiip?
oulipo_to registrations?
jpmcc Not got any figures from the local team to present as yet.
oulipo_to Might I suggest we (whowever that is but one member at least from CC) participate in an IRC meeting soon to review all these things and other things, too?
mhu sponsorship: I have heard of only 2 so far, IBM and RedFlag 2000
oulipo_to in previous years, we've had many such meetings, intermittently
stx12 jpmcc: i understand that reviewers provide feedback to authors - but how are proposals selected?
stx12 jpmcc: do you have a sandbox conference we can play with in the system?
jpmcc stx12: reviewers provide feedback to the OOoCon Team. Based on past experience, the task is usually weeding out the few really bad proposals...
jpmcc ...so we might say one good review gets you in, two bad reviews and you;re out. It depends on the number of proposals, the number of reviewers, etc
jpmcc stx12: I've still got the site on sf as a playpen if we want to use one
stx12 so we need at least 2 reviewers per track
jpmcc stx12: I hope more :)
jpmcc Certainly for development we will need far more than 2 ...
oulipo_to okay, do we have more to add to this session?
CorNouws session = meeting?
oulipo_to yes
jpmcc What did we conclude about certification?
oulipo_to nothing; it's in progress
oulipo_to we should submit our suggestions to the list, however
oulipo_to the cert list
CorNouws also, as I understood, that we continue with the discussion with Alexandro and Evan
oulipo_to as to the text and evan's responsse, let's read it and review it and discuss it; but it is in progress
oulipo_to yes.
CorNouws yes
jpmcc oulipo_tp: the cert list ?
oulipo_to yes
oulipo_to but that relates to the points you and I and Cor discussed
oulipo_to about "light touch"
* mhu would like to finish in 5 min latest, if possible ...
jpmcc mhu: ok by me :-)
oulipo_to the discussion regarding the actual document is still ongoing and comments should be sent to the parties concerned, including the council lsit
oulipo_to so, then if nothing new, i suggest we adjourn this meeting
CorNouws OK, I suggest I make AI's just as the past meeting ..
oulipo_to thanks!!
oulipo_to AIs should be easy: full caps for them ;-)
CorNouws mostly cut and past, but htnks for yout thanks of course :-)
oulipo_to I would suggest we use a template for this, btw
oulipo_to and keep a spreadsheet on the wiki for it
oulipo_to but we can talk about that later
CorNouws ok, look forward to the proposal
* oulipo_to notes that there is a Gannt chart template for ODF/OOo
oulipo_to if no objections, I call this meeting adjourned
oulipo_to Cor to do minutes; irc log to be posted immediately by louis
stx12 fine with me; jpmcc: do have a minute?
mhu okay, have a nice evening ... bye all
jpmcc stx12: ok
CorNouws bye bye
*** mhu has quit IRC ("bye")
oulipo_to meeting adjourned, bye all
</pre>

Community Council Log 20090709

2009-07-09T19:58:26Z

LouisSuarez: New page: == IRC Log of Community Council Meeting 2009-06-25 == '''Attendees''' * Cor Nouws (CorNouws) * Pavel Janik (paveljanik) * Stefan Taxhet (stx12) * Matthias Huetsch (mhu) * John McCreesh ...

== IRC Log of Community Council Meeting 2009-06-25 ==

'''Attendees'''

* Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
* Pavel Janik (paveljanik)
* Stefan Taxhet (stx12)
* Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
* John McCreesh (jpmcc)
* Louis Suarez-Potts (oulipo_to)

''' Absent '''
* Sophie Gautier
* André Schnabel
* Martin Hollmichel

<pre>

oulipo_to begin, that is
oulipo_to Stefan, can you locate the previous meeting minutes and AIs?
oulipo_to in the meanwhile....
oulipo_to using this link,
oulipo_to http://209.85.135.132/search?q=cache:YqN1gCgthJAJ:wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/The_OpenOffice.org_Community_Council_Agenda+openoffice.org+council+agenda&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=firefox-a
* paveljanik is semi-here. Please do not ping me via private messages
oulipo_to http://preview.tinyurl.com/knefru
stx12 http://209.85.129.132/search?q=cache:qEZkq4aBy5oJ:wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council_Minutes+openoffice.org+Community+Council+Minutes+of+Meetings&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=firefox-a
oulipo_to thanks
stx12 you mean this?
oulipo_to yes
CorNouws paveljanik: what does "semi-here" mean?
oulipo_to thanks
oulipo_to do we approve of previous session's minutes?
oulipo_to please indicate with +1/-1
oulipo_to eg, +1
oulipo_to (though I was absent then)
oulipo_to assuming that unanimous silence = +1..
CorNouws +1
oulipo_to let's move on to #2, Action items from previous meeting
stx12 btw the wiki is back
oulipo_to whoope
oulipo_to 2.1: Budget: Louis to use marcons list for events
oulipo_to STATUS: IN PROGRESS
oulipo_to (am using capitals to make it easier to find)
oulipo_to 2.2: Stefan to discuss the trademark issue with Debian adn give feedback
oulipo_to Stefan?
stx12 a call is scheduled for tomorrow with debian representatives, bernhard and sun legal.
oulipo_to stx12: can you include me in that call, please?
stx12 oulipo_to: sure, see your inbox
oulipo_to thanks
oulipo_to report then for list and for updates in next meeting
oulipo_to STATUS: IN PROGRESS FOR 2.1
oulipo_to Let's move on to 2.2: review of trademakr policy by list (?) start discussion on list
oulipo_to is that accurate for 2.2?
oulipo_to it seems incomplete to me
CorNouws I read "then with comments on list: review by the cc , and then start discussion on discuss@"
stx12 aehm; this reads to me as "then with comments on list: review by the cc , and then start discussion on discuss@ "
oulipo_to of the debian call? or of trademark generally?
oulipo_to that's my question
CorNouws General
oulipo_to okay, so after debian call and report we discuss trademark policy on the list
oulipo_to STATUS: IN PROGRESS, then
oulipo_to shall we move to 3.0?
oulipo_to 3.1; halion72 (and mhu is goning to help) to send to louis (and jpmcc) proposal for elections announcement for editing, writing, etc. (around May 30)
oulipo_to 3.2 is update
oulipo_to I have not heard (I believe) from Thalion on this
oulipo_to is he on holiday?
mhu I have not heard of Andre, and missed to ping him
oulipo_to Let's ping him now?
CorNouws hmmm obviously it has not been done
oulipo_to ;just sent ping
oulipo_to STATUS: UNCLEAR BUT IN PROGRESS
oulipo_to moving on to 4.0
oulipo_to OpenOffice.org Internship
oulipo_to 4.1 Cor (et all): Start of the public process (announcement etc.) asap
oulipo_to Cor, et al., update?
CorNouws No time found for that by me and Florian
CorNouws so hope to be able to do it soon
CorNouws therefore no update ATM
oulipo_to CorNouws; I can add some things / items to that related to education efforts
oulipo_to where is the discussion taking place between you and Florian?
oulipo_to I need to report on this regarding Seneca, China, and other areas where it intersects with mentoring/internships
CorNouws contests@marketing.openoffice.org
oulipo_to ah.
oulipo_to thanks
oulipo_to AI: LOUIS: TO SEND TO CONTESTS@MARKETING UPDATE ON SENECA COLLEGE, CHINA (TSINGHUA) AND OTHERS FOR INTERNSHIP AND MENTORING
mhu okay, I just sent private email to Andre.
oulipo_to mhu: thanks
oulipo_to STATUS 4.2: IN PROGRESS
oulipo_to moving on to 5....
oulipo_to 5.1: L10n infrastructure
oulipo_to 1. André: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839 , and discuss with Florian
oulipo_to 5.2: (See remarks in the log from cloph)
CorNouws Sorry, I've been both away and far toooo busy before, to contact André about the status
oulipo_to the status of this is unclear to me
oulipo_to Cor: that's okay; your workload is awesome and your business takes precedence, I should hope
oulipo_to but do we have an update on the general policy and logistics of this request?
oulipo_to perhaps from stefan?
CorNouws no, the ball is at André's feet
oulipo_to what does Andre have to do?
stx12 there is no status change; there is an idea on the table how we handle the large amount of data for localized builds and andre was going to discuss it with florian, joost, ...
CorNouws and André wanted to continue that process
oulipo_to I see. Is there an urgency here?
CorNouws André probably will not mind if someone else does
CorNouws he is quite busy with QA-discussions
oulipo_to I mean, this issue to me is not new; we've had to confront it numerous times, I thought
oulipo_to can we perhaps simply then proceed with Florian, if he has time and also others involved, such as Joost and Stefan?
stx12 and we will be faced with it if/when a 2.4.3rc should ever be prepared...
CorNouws oulipo_to: I suggest to ask André
oulipo_to Yes.
oulipo_to CorNouws: will do
oulipo_to doine
oulipo_to done, I mean
oulipo_to moving on to 6.
oulipo_to OpenOffice.org Certification
oulipo_to 1. all: continue discussion via mail wthin next day's
oulipo_to 2. goal is to come to decission asap
oulipo_to who can do #3: update?
oulipo_to Cor?
CorNouws This morning I've send out the mail on the CC list, and ...
CorNouws I've seen and moderated, but not yet read, a long response from Evan on the questions and remarks we discussed with the council members before
CorNouws So that runs, IMO
oulipo_to yes, same here
oulipo_to evan has a great gift for language :-(
* oulipo_to which lsp shares, alas
* mhu thinks Evan's response reads good
oulipo_to mhu: it does. he's a wonderful writer an clearly enjoys writing
oulipo_to alas
oulipo_to STATUS 6.1 ETC. IN PROGRESS
CorNouws So I expect replies / remarks / questions from CC members the next days
jpmcc By chance, I received a letter from a company in Italy who are interested in offering OOo certification...
mhu I meant not only language, but also content :-)
oulipo_to jpmcc: and I in China
* stx12 would prefer concise facts
oulipo_to stx12: we all would :-)
jpmcc ...I ran the idea of OOo certification past them in case they were inetrested in being a founding partner...
* oulipo_to is big infractor as he always sends his boss long letters that must tax his patience
oulipo_to jpmcc: and?
* oulipo_to did same...
jpmcc ...they are very interested, but would like to split the cake differently...
oulipo_to hm. j
jpmcc ...Mauizio's English is not wonderful, but we would want OOo to set the syllabus and the exams and contract out the rest to local / national organisations...
oulipo_to I suspect that's true of many
oulipo_to jpmcc: I think we'd need more information of a precise nature
oulipo_to as all of this must be ordained by contract of a legal nature
jpmcc ...his company being one. He says they have over 500 accredited training centres and systems to support them.
oulipo_to hm.
oulipo_to I suggest we discuss this on the relevant list or with relevant parties. Query: is it relevant to approval or disapproval of the basic idea?
jpmcc I can forward you all his email - it's in html, so I dont't think I can do it via the list.
oulipo_to ie, a CC-authorized org. that certifies companies?
oulipo_to jpmcc: thanks
jpmcc oulipo_to: +1 to the general principle
oulipo_to i think in discussions we should clarify precisely the boundaries of the CC and organization regarding such certification, eg., would the cc dive into content or relegate itself as previously decided to guidelines?
oulipo_to but that is in the "details" bucket
oulipo_to yet very important
oulipo_to I suggest we move on to 7.0
CorNouws at the moment I see no problems, why the CC could handle with more parties
CorNouws as long as the certification work they do, is clear and good
oulipo_to and hold cert. discussions on the relevant list
jpmcc After reading Maurizio's email, I wonder if a 'one size fits all' would work worldwide. The main thing is to get keen partners.
oulipo_to CorNouws: but it matters how much work we can sustain and how much flexiblity we allow
CorNouws so the ideas we discuss with Alexandro and Evan
CorNouws are important for all later enquries, I would guess
oulipo_to jpmcc: indeed; and that is also one reason I prefer guidelines, at least at this moement
oulipo_to CorNouws: yes
CorNouws so if some want us a lot of work to do, it might be that we cannot endorse them
oulipo_to my desire is to ensure wide flexibility and local agility
jpmcc oulipo_to: I'd be in favour of 'light touch' governance, and leave our certification team free to experiment, make mistakes, etc.
oulipo_to jpmcc: agreed
CorNouws whereas when others do muchg themselves, it is easier to proceed
oulipo_to CorNouws, jpmcc: we are all in agreement here
CorNouws this all within the borders of quality and so
oulipo_to "light touch" rules
oulipo_to provided quality is paramount
oulipo_to :-)
oulipo_to let's move on to 7.x
CorNouws OK, then we can proceed with the currect request from A & E
oulipo_to Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
oulipo_to 1. Louis: deliver final wording after the discussion that was on the mail list
oulipo_to My apologies to Cor
oulipo_to I'll send the document today; it's very simple
jpmcc I like the idea of monitoring quality through user feedback ... this would be one argument for keeping the final issuing of the certificate in-house - we could use that as an opportunity to get feedback from students about their experience.
oulipo_to and was already discussed in a prior CC meeting: status quo codified and then approval by CC
oulipo_to STATUS 7.X: IN PROGRESS AND TO BE DONE 07/09 TO LIST
oulipo_to jpmcc: a long time ago, Stefan suggested an ebay like structure for user feedback for such things
oulipo_to we didn't have the technology then. Now we do
oulipo_to moving on to 8.x
oulipo_to it seems a lot like 7.x
oulipo_to but it reads: Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
oulipo_to 1. Louis: come with clear proposal, so we can put it on the agenda for a future meeting
oulipo_to STATUS: IN PROGRESS 8.X
stx12 8 is about project retirement IIRC
oulipo_to but that is what 7 says it's about
oulipo_to no matter; the basic document will accommodate both points
oulipo_to shall we move on to 3.0?
oulipo_to 3.0: OOoCon 2009
oulipo_to 1. Update
oulipo_to 2. Any special preparations AFA-the CC-IC ?
CorNouws 2.9?
CorNouws Not yet done, but did adapt the shedule on the wiki, with a remark wrt my proposal.
CorNouws see http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Calendar
oulipo_to 2.9 is next meeting schedule and will be sent by cor to list as voila
oulipo_to i mean, voici
oulipo_to thanks, CorNouws!
oulipo_to and I can attest that wiki does work
oulipo_to but, to return then to 3.0....
oulipo_to yes?
* mhu wonders what "AFA-the CC-IC" abbreviations may mean ...
* oulipo_to was hoping someone smart would know...
* oulipo_to has his hopes dashed :-/
CorNouws as fas as the CC is concered, I guess
oulipo_to ah. cool
mhu huhuuuu :-)
CorNouws but honestly, I do not remember if I added that, or not...
oulipo_to Orwell would find acronym-speak very disturbing indeed.
oulipo_to it's worse than newspeak
CorNouws :-D
mhu new speech, wasn't it ?
oulipo_to but, anyway, John, do you (yes, you are right, mhu) have report on OOoCon?
jpmcc http://tinyurl.com/ooocon - CfP issued - 18 volunteers signed up as reviewers
oulipo_to thanks
oulipo_to I have to sign up, too
oulipo_to I can send note to project_leads...
jpmcc Already sent
mhu do we need more than 18 reviewers ? I could help too, if that was needed
jpmcc One of the reasons for using OCS was that it would support more reviewers who could give better feedback to speakers
* stx12 is a bit unsure about the duties and responsibilities of a reviewer.
mhu ...but 18 already sounds like many, compared to past years
oulipo_to mhu: my guess is that the actual number will be less
oulipo_to easy to sign up, another thing altogether to do
jpmcc stx12: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/OOoCon_Reviewing
mhu Ah, yes, well. I may then sign up as well.
oulipo_to other updates?
jpmcc http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/OOoCon_2009_CfR
oulipo_to eg, sponsorshiip?
oulipo_to registrations?
jpmcc Not got any figures from the local team to present as yet.
oulipo_to Might I suggest we (whowever that is but one member at least from CC) participate in an IRC meeting soon to review all these things and other things, too?
mhu sponsorship: I have heard of only 2 so far, IBM and RedFlag 2000
oulipo_to in previous years, we've had many such meetings, intermittently
stx12 jpmcc: i understand that reviewers provide feedback to authors - but how are proposals selected?
stx12 jpmcc: do you have a sandbox conference we can play with in the system?
jpmcc stx12: reviewers provide feedback to the OOoCon Team. Based on past experience, the task is usually weeding out the few really bad proposals...
jpmcc ...so we might say one good review gets you in, two bad reviews and you;re out. It depends on the number of proposals, the number of reviewers, etc
jpmcc stx12: I've still got the site on sf as a playpen if we want to use one
stx12 so we need at least 2 reviewers per track
jpmcc stx12: I hope more :)
jpmcc Certainly for development we will need far more than 2 ...
oulipo_to okay, do we have more to add to this session?
CorNouws session = meeting?
oulipo_to yes
jpmcc What did we conclude about certification?
oulipo_to nothing; it's in progress
oulipo_to we should submit our suggestions to the list, however
oulipo_to the cert list
CorNouws also, as I understood, that we continue with the discussion with Alexandro and Evan
oulipo_to as to the text and evan's responsse, let's read it and review it and discuss it; but it is in progress
oulipo_to yes.
CorNouws yes
jpmcc oulipo_tp: the cert list ?
oulipo_to yes
oulipo_to but that relates to the points you and I and Cor discussed
oulipo_to about "light touch"
* mhu would like to finish in 5 min latest, if possible ...
jpmcc mhu: ok by me :-)
oulipo_to the discussion regarding the actual document is still ongoing and comments should be sent to the parties concerned, including the council lsit
oulipo_to so, then if nothing new, i suggest we adjourn this meeting
CorNouws OK, I suggest I make AI's just as the past meeting ..
oulipo_to thanks!!
oulipo_to AIs should be easy: full caps for them ;-)
CorNouws mostly cut and past, but htnks for yout thanks of course :-)
oulipo_to I would suggest we use a template for this, btw
oulipo_to and keep a spreadsheet on the wiki for it
oulipo_to but we can talk about that later
CorNouws ok, look forward to the proposal
* oulipo_to notes that there is a Gannt chart template for ODF/OOo
oulipo_to if no objections, I call this meeting adjourned
oulipo_to Cor to do minutes; irc log to be posted immediately by louis
stx12 fine with me; jpmcc: do have a minute?
mhu okay, have a nice evening ... bye all
jpmcc stx12: ok
CorNouws bye bye
*** mhu has quit IRC ("bye")
oulipo_to meeting adjourned, bye all
</pre>

Community Council/Minutes

2009-05-29T22:19:08Z

LouisSuarez: /* IRC log */

=Minutes of Meetings=

== 2009-05-28 ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===

# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Action items - from previous meeting(s)
## Budget
### Matthias, André and Cor agreed on a meeting regarding budget issues for next monday.
### Louis: again ping, to get estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
## Trademark
### Update after the renewed discussion on tm@ooo
## Elections
### ...
## OpenOffice.org Internship
### Update
## L10n infrastructure
### Stefan, André, Cor: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839
## Project improvement page
### Cor: add some content, then ping Louis to mail project leads
## proposal council coordinator
### Cor: ask votes of members not present at the meeting
# OpenOffice.org Certification
## Review [[Education/Certification/Petition| the petition]] for endorsement.
# Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
## formalise the practise to delegate confirmation of Incubator project to project_leads@ and for native language projects to leads of NLC.

=== Minutes ===
TBD

=== Decisions made ===
# Trademark
## cc decides in two weeks on the trademark proposal, then discussion brought to dicsuss@
# council coordinator
## [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2090 proposal] approved: Cor is the first one in this role, then Stefan, and after 4 months we already vote for the third period.
# Budget
## Waiting for outcome of taxes, then more clear budgetting
(see log)

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20090528]]

=== AI's ===

# Budget
## Louis: use marcon list and post to wiki list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals
# Trademark
## discussion to continue on dicsuss@ after June 11th
# Elections
## Thalion72 to send to louis (and jpmcc) proposal for elections announcement for editing, writing, etc. (around May 30)
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## Stefan to suggest the budget for the internship program as suggested by the proposal
# L10n infrastructure
## Stefan, André, Cor: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839
# Project improvement page
## Cor: ping Louis to mail project leads
# OpenOffice.org Certification
## Louis: to sent the old plan just as reminder what we had already done
## Cor: ask Alexandro and Evan for materials, a business plan (suggested content in log) and ask if some financial support can help with that.
# Procedures for retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
## louis_to, stx12, Thalion72: with louis_to to come up with initial draft, stx12 with steps for retirement/removal/ and Thalion72 to reivew and edit as needed

== 2009-05-14 ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===

# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Action items
## Budget
### Louis: schedule a conference call with CC members regarding budget issues
### Matthias: more clear on situation wrt taxes to pay?
### Louis: Send and gather estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
## Trademark policy
### Do we know by now why we need/want it
## Elections
### in preparation - see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/BrowseList?list=discuss&by=thread&from=2228762 mailing list]
### status of [[Community_Council/Items/Election_Process_Proposal]]
### approve removal of utilities project
### approve removal of odftoolkit project
## L10n infrastructure
### More news from discussion?
## Project improvement page
### Cor add some content, then ping Louis to mail project leads
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## (should be starting soon)
# Proposal for role of council coordinator
## ( see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/BrowseList?list=discuss&by=thread&from=2222504 mail list] )
## ...

=== Minutes ===
TBD

=== Decisions made ===

# the accepted project utilities has been merged into framework, and thus no longer a separate accepted project
# odftoolkit, now a separate project outside OOo, and thus no longer a separate incubator projects
# Community_Council/Items/Election_Process_Proposal accepted as final

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20090514]]

=== AI's ===
# Budget
## Matthias, André and Cor agreed on a meeting regarding budget issues for next monday.
## Louis: again ping, to get estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
# Trademark
## Update after the renewed discussion on tm@ooo
# Elections
## ...
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## Update
# L10n infrastructure
## Stefan, André, Cor: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839
# Project improvement page
## Cor: add some content, then ping Louis to mail project leads
# proposal council coordinator
## Cor: ask votes of members not present at the meeting

== 2009-04-30 ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===
# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Action items
## Budget
### Louis: schedule a conference call with CC members for next week regarding budget issues
### Matthias: money on account and estimates for incomes and taxes to pay
### Louis: Send estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
## SPI - update
## Trademark
### Update
## Louis, André: elections draft announcement + schedule
## L10n infrastructure
## Cor: project improvement page: further clarification
## All: project improvement page: input for content and links
## ..
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## Discussion started on contests@marketing.openoffice.org
## last time, marketing was the weekest point
## idea is that funding comes from marketing and development budget
## any suggestions / whishes from the cc at this moment
# Proposal for role of council coordinator
## see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2000 mail list]
## discussion
## to go or not to go
# Growing the project
## ...
# Guidelines for bundling extensions
:: [http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=100836 issue 100836] requests the removal of the writer2latex extension from OOo 3.1 (raised as showstopper)
:: reason was given in [http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=100744 issue 100744] as "According to our guidelines for bundling extensions we cannot bundle extensions which are not covered by the guidelines to contribute (meaning SCA)."
:: Question to the council: where are those guidelines, who approved these guidelines at what time?

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20090430]]

=== AI's ===

# Budget
## Louis: schedule a conference call with CC members regarding budget issues
## Matthias: more clear on situation wrt taxes to pay?
## Louis: Send and gather estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
# Trademark policy
## Do we know by now why we need/want it
# Elections
## Running ?
# L10n infrastructure
## More news from discussion?
# Project improvement page
## Cor add some content, then ping Louis to mail project leads

=== Notes ===
Important info / discussion, not coming back as AI for the nextmeeting

* SPI; info about procedures / position / possibility to improve (when we want to invest time)

=== Minutes ===

TBD

== 2009-04-09==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===
# L10n builds distribution over the network, see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?listName=discuss&msgNo=1986 Rafaella mail]
## what can we do to support
## ..
# Growing the project
## see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1999 mail list]
## discussion
## to go or not to go
# Proposal for role of council coordinator
## see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2000 mail list]
## discussion
## to go or not to go
# Guidelines for bundling extensions
:: [http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=100836 issue 100836] requests the removal of the writer2latex extension from OOo 3.1 (raised as showstopper)
:: reason was given in [http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=100744 issue 100744] as "According to our guidelines for bundling extensions we cannot bundle extensions which are not covered by the guidelines to contribute (meaning SCA)."
:: Question to the council: where are those guidelines, who approved these guidelines at what time?
# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Action items
## Budget
### Louis: schedule a conference call with CC members for next week regarding budget issues
### Matthias: money on account and estimates for incomes and taxes to pay
### Louis: Send estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
## SPI - update
## Trademark
### Louis to review with André and John trademark proposals; also to revisit the list (done)
### Update
## Louis, André: elections draft announcement + schedule
## Cor to send to CC list proposals on CC function, structure and community growth (both done)

=== log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20090409]]

=== AI's ===
# Budget
## Louis: schedule a conference call with CC members for next week regarding budget issues
## Matthias: money on account and estimates for incomes and taxes to pay
## Louis: Send estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
# SPI - update
# Trademark
## Update
# Louis, André: elections draft announcement + schedule
# L10n infrastructure
# Cor: further discussion on proposal council coordinator via mail
# Cor: project improvement page: further clarification
# All: project improvement page: input for content and links

=== Minutes ===
TBD

== 2009-03-26==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===
# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Action items
## Elections ..
## New charter - done
## Budget precedures - done
## SPI
### mails to CC list ..
### info on donations page - done
## Trademark
## Growing the project
### info on wiki
### further ideas / discussion
# (2009) Budget
## Is it possible to work with yearly spending / income sheets etc. (see irc log)
# Proposal for role of council co-ordinator
## appoint a council coordinator every 4 to 5 months, who is responsible during that time for poking the colleagues ;-) etc.
### will improve overall cc-performance
### will help to share the feeling of really being part of it, of joined responsibility
# L10n builds distribution over the network, see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?listName=discuss&msgNo=1986 Rafaella mail]

=== log ===
* [[Community Council Log 20090326]]

=== AI's ===
Action items
# Budget
## Louis: schedule a conference call with CC members for next week regarding budget issues
## Matthias: money on account and estimates for incomes and taxes to pay
## Louis: Send estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
# SPI - update
# Trademark
## Louis to review with André and John trademark proposals; also to revisit the list (done)
## Update
# Louis, André: elections draft announcement + schedule
# Cor to send to CC list proposals on CC function, structure and community growth (both done)

=== Minutes ===
* Minutes TBD

== 2009-03-12 [[Community Council Notes 20090312]] ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===
# Minutes of previous meeting for approval and action items
# 2008 Financial Statement
# 2009 Budget
# Proposal for role of Community Co-ordinator (Cor)
# Update on Trademarks (Sophie)

=== Attendees ===
* Sophie Gautier (sophi)
* Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
* John McCreesh (jpmcc)
* Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
* André Schnabel (Thalion72)
* Stefan Taxhet (stx12)

** absent: Pavel Janik (paveljanik)
** absent: Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_)

=== Minutes ===
====New and Familiar Action Items====
* Elections: to commence this week with candidate nominations (Louis and Sophie).
*Announcements related to new charter and elections:
1. For new charter (André and John, ''completed'')
2. for nominations and election news, 3 days after the first announcement
* Trademark update (In lawyer's hands; update: Sophie, John, Louis): "in progress"
* Budget procedures clarification (John and probably others): ''in progress''
* LSP: Louis to re-send to CC list original emails related to SPI

===Summary/Minutes===
* Prior minutes were approved

===Old Action Items and actions and summary of discussion===
* André: review plebiscite on Community Council Proposal, ask the council to formally accept the proposal and publish as new version of the charter - complete - on agenda -''completed''
* John: make budget procedures more visible - ''completed''
* Sophie: prepare a short note about trademark proposal for the next meeting - complete -'' on agenda''
* Sophie: resend mail on SPI to the council list for comments - on agenda
* Louis / Matthias: get treasurers of Team OOo e.V. and SPI in contact - Action: Matthias to ping Louis for contact details - ''completed''
* Charter change (André) see email - Agreed Proposal formally accepted by Council, updated on Web, ''completed''.
Trademark (Sophie) draft_0.6 is ready, waiting comments from Marketing - Action: under legal review, ''continuing''
* Budget (Cor) we intended to decide on the budget for 2009. Is info available? Martin said this was scheduled for March.
* Budget (Cor) Proposal for clear routing of funding request: see email. Agreed. Action - Cor --''completed''
* Budget (Cor) Proposal to ask the l10n-team at Sun, if new hardware is badly needed see mail. Action Stefan to see if we can improve quality of service by spending CC budget on infrastructure: ''completed'':
** ST spoke with Rafallea Branconi and she "feels comfortable with the current setup with 2 pootle servers.'we will monitor these more closely to see whether they are as reliable as we need it. Sophie argued that language partition is inefficient and that we should partition by region instead. ''Discussion to continue''
* Budget (Sophie) SPI Info needed see mail – Action: Louis/Sophie contacted SPI and Louis is sending MHU notifications of donations; link to SPI repository on donation page (http://contributing.openoffice.org/donate.html). L/S attended last Board meeting as observers and will participate more actively to run for office. (Why SPI? Because makes it easier for US residents to pay via cheque or credit card.)
* Growing the project (Cor) see mail Action Cor to put on the wiki- completed: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Project_Improvements : ''Discussions to be conducted on list'' '''Action remaining: Louis to re-send to CC list original emails'''.
* This year's GSoC (John) Action Stefan to see if we are likely to be accepted- ''discussed''
* Proposals for OOoCon and the Community consultation process (John). John stated that after discussions on the lists, the Marketing Project had decided to change the process to award OOoCon one year in advance. This would give teams more time to prepare and to allow them to learn from the previous team. This means this year the MP will be awarding OOoCon 09 and 10, then next year OOoCon 11, etc. As time was short, John agreed to continue this conversation on the CC list. Action John--''completed''

== 2009-02-19 (IRC) ==

===Attendees===
* Sophie Gautier (sophi)
* Pavel Janik (paveljanik)
* Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_)
* Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
* John McCreesh (jpmcc)
* Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
* André Schnabel (Thalion72)
* Stefan Taxhet (stx12)

* missing:
** Louis Suarez-Potts (absent)

===Minutes===
16:45 Meeting opened
# Minutes of previous meeting - approved
# Action items
## André: review plebiscite on Community Council Proposal, ask the council to formally accept the proposal and publish as new version of the charter - complete - ''on agenda''
## John: make budget procedures more visible - ''complete''
## Cor: draft a proposal for a more clear workflow - ''on agenda''
## Sophie: prepare a short note about trademark proposal for the next meeting - complete - ''on agenda''
## Sophie: resend mail on SPI to the council list for comments - ''on agenda''
## Louis / Matthias: get treasurers of Team OOo e.V. and SPI in contact - '''Action''': Matthias to ping Louis for contact details
# Charter change (André) [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1944 see email] - '''Agreed''' Proposal formally accepted by Council
# Trademark (Sophie) draft_0.6 is ready, waiting comments from Marketing - '''Action''': John to review
# Budget (Cor) we intended to decide on the budget for 2009. Is info available? Martin said this was scheduled for March.
# Budget (Cor) Proposal for clear routing of funding request: [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1923 see email]. '''Agreed'''. '''Action''' - Cor to add to wiki
# Budget (Cor) Proposal to ask the l10n-team at Sun, if new hardware is badly needed [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1843 see mail]. '''Action''' Stefan to see if we can improve quality of service by spending CC budget on infrastructure
# Budget (Sophie) SPI Info needed [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1854 see mail] - already discussed
# Growing the project (Cor) [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1946 see mail] '''Action''' Cor to put on the wiki
# This year's [http://code.google.com/opensource/gsoc/2009/faqs.html GSoC] (John) '''Action''' Stefan to see if we are likely to be accepted
# [http://marketing.openoffice.org/ooocon2009/cfl/index.html Proposals for OOoCon] and the Community consultation process (John). John stated that after discussions on the lists, the Marketing Project had decided to change the process to award OOoCon one year in advance. This would give teams more time to prepare and to allow them to learn from the previous team. This means this year the MP will be awarding OOoCon 09 and 10, then next year OOoCon 11, etc. As time was short, John agreed to continue this conversation on the CC list. '''Action''' John
# AOB - none
17:49 UTC Meeting closed

==2009-01-22 (IRC)==

===Attendees===
* Sophie Gautier (sophi)
* Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_)
* Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
* Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
* André Schnabel (Thalion72)
* Stefan Taxhet (stx12)

* missing:
** Louis Suarez-Potts (excused)
** Pavel Janik

===New Action Items===

* André: review plebiscite on Community Council Proposal, ask the council to formally accept the proposal and publish as new version of the charter

* John: make budget procedures more visible
* Cor: draft a proposal for a more clear workflow

* Sophie: prepare a short note about trademark proposal for the next meeting

* Sophie: resend mail on SPI to the council list for comments
* Louis / Matthias: get treasurers of Team OOo e.V. and SPI in contact

===Agenda===

# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Approval of provisional budgets for 2009
# Endorsement of "Developer's Manifesto 2009"
# AOB

===Minutes===

* budget holders can start with the same budgets as for 2008. Budgets for 2009 will be reviewed end of Feb. (after Team OOo e.V. finished finanzial review, budged holders are asked to prepare a more detailed budget plan, if possible)

* a "Developer's Manifesto 2009" will be published on the OOo website, as porposed on the [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1922 council mailing list]

* Other business
** the new Charter Proposal has passed all steps that are necessary to become final. The results of the plebiscite need to be reviewed and the proposal needs to be published at the council website as new version of the charter.
:: AI for André: review plebiscite, ask the council to formally accept the proposal and publish as new version of the charter

:* André suggested to move the budget and funding procedures to the council website. Proposal was rejected, as the procedure is likely to be reworked.
:: AI for John: make budget procedures more visible
:: AI for Cor: draft a proposal for a more clear workflow

:* CorNouws asked what the status of the trademark proposal is
:: AI for Sophie: prepare a short note about trademark proposal for the next meeting

:* Sophie asked for more information about SPI
:: AI for Sophie: resend mail on SPI to the council list for comments
:: AI for Louis / Matthias: get treasurers of Team OOo e.V. and SPI in contact

=== Log ===
[[Community Council Log 20092201]]

== OLDER MEETINGS ... 2008 and before ==
See the next page:
[[Community_Council/Minutes_2008_and_older]]

[[Category:Community Council]]

Community Council Log 20090528

2009-05-29T22:18:09Z

LouisSuarez:

== IRC Log of Community Council Meeting 2009-05-28 ==

'''Attendees'''

* Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_)
* Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
* André Schnabel (Thalion72)
* Pavel Janik (paveljanik)
* Louis Suárez-Potts (louis_to)
* Stefan Taxhet (stx12)
* Sophie Gautier
* John McCreesh

* Absent: Matthias Huetsch (mhu)

<pre>

[14:34:11] louis_to shall we start?
[14:34:11] louis_to http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/The_OpenOffice.org_Community_Council_Agenda
[14:34:15] louis_to that's the link for agenda
[14:37:09] louis_to ping?
[14:37:17] jpmcc pong
[14:37:28] _Nesshof_ no more timeout
[14:37:28] louis_to hi john; glad you could make it
[14:37:36] stx12 hi all
[14:37:43] louis_to hi stx12
[14:37:46] CorNouws Agenda looks OK to me ;-)
[14:37:52] louis_to lol
[14:38:21] CorNouws wow: also for the rest of us?
[14:38:31] CorNouws wow = with other words ;-)
[14:38:37] louis_to brb
[14:38:37] sophi CorNouws: ok for me
[14:38:40] Thalion72 yes ... I would have commented, if soemthing was not ok ;)
[14:39:42] CorNouws We're running out of time. I popose to start with #2
[14:40:02] Thalion72 yes ..please
[14:40:49] louis_to Trademark?
[14:40:54] louis_to or action items?
[14:41:00] Thalion72 action Items
[14:41:13] louis_to okay, let's start; meeting has commenced
[14:41:26] louis_to Action items - from previous meeting(s)
[14:41:26] louis_to 1. Budget
[14:41:26] louis_to 1. Matthias, André and Cor agreed on a meeting regarding budget issues for next monday.
[14:41:43] CorNouws Yes, I have a report
[14:41:43] louis_to that's 2.1, budget...
[14:42:02] louis_to CorNouws: and?
[14:42:14] CorNouws About the first years
[14:42:30] CorNouws In the first years, though there were spendings, there was no real focus on budget and accounting, nor on promoting the spending for projects.
[14:42:30] CorNouws Also especially in the last few years more is donated.
[14:42:47] CorNouws From this first period roughly some 400 K will be left. But this is uncertain, since still taxes have to be paid.
[14:42:47] CorNouws Also, a significant amount of the money in the accounts is earmarked
[14:43:05] CorNouws This has to be fully clear first.
[14:43:12] CorNouws And also we have a better idea on how we can promote the spending - at least that is what we tried last year
[14:43:23] CorNouws Then the idea is to come up with is more structured budget planning for the next years.
[14:44:01] CorNouws That is more or less what I learned of the meeting.
[14:44:12] CorNouws André, OK?
[14:44:31] _Nesshof_ what should the "more structured" look like ?
[14:45:12] CorNouws _Nesshof_: With knowledge about what we more or less can expect and
[14:45:29] CorNouws (as income) and what people might ask
[14:45:30] Thalion72 to me yes: myshort summary: TeamOOo is still waiting for answer form the tax office .. until this has been received, the current budget is the "best and most solid estimation" we have
[14:46:15] stx12 ... and we can continue to work with...
[14:46:18] louis_to is there any idea when the tax office will act?
[14:46:39] CorNouws louis_to: as soon as they have info // ;-)
[14:46:46] paveljanik I have to leave now for an hour or so, sorry
[14:46:50] _Nesshof_ our tax attorney has sent the files to the tax office, ... still waiting for reaction
[14:46:54] louis_to bye...
[14:47:04] Thalion72 bye pavel
[14:47:04] stx12 bye pavel
[14:47:37] _Nesshof_ but independently from that, we're still seem not be able to spend the money we approved for this year
[14:47:38] louis_to CorNouws, others; we can estimate budget holding for the coming, actual year
[14:47:38] CorNouws _Nesshof_: Ah, good. you might consider to ping them
[14:47:54] CorNouws Yes, same as past is Matthias idea
[14:47:55] louis_to _Nesshof_: we could spend more easily enough
[14:47:59] CorNouws and I support that
[14:48:31] louis_to for instance, there are trips I've declined b/c the belief that my request qould be declined; and marketing could be allocated more funds altogether
[14:48:41] CorNouws So, AFAIAC, everything is clear for this moment
[14:48:47] stx12 it doesn't seem to be easy - at least that's my experienc efrom last year
[14:49:37] louis_to not easy to spend money?
[14:49:40] Thalion72 louis_to: start to spend your budget ...
[14:49:42] louis_to I disagree
[14:49:43] CorNouws louis_to: that is why we agreed few months agoo that we should get an estimate of possible requests / spendings ..
[14:49:53] louis_to Thalion72: I am already, but there are some areas that are in the gray zone
[14:49:56] louis_to eg, travel
[14:50:16] Thalion72 louis_to: as budget holder it is up to *you* what to spend the money for
[14:50:18] louis_to I know, and the community has not really responded at all. last time Thalion72 suggested just do it
[14:50:34] louis_to Thalion72: there are still guidelines
[14:50:48] louis_to which I llike to respect
[14:50:49] Thalion72 sorry, but I did notagree on the bdget procedures, just to have the budeget holder now asking the councile (instead of direct requests)
[14:51:02] louis_to okay, anyway, it's a side issue.
[14:51:04] stx12 louis_to: just discuss with your advisors and you'll get the feedback whether gray is white or black
[14:51:13] louis_to the point is to come up with ... as stx12 suggests
[14:51:37] louis_to so, back to CorNouws' report
[14:52:37] CorNouws That is finished.
[14:52:42] Thalion72 I think, the report is complete
[14:52:44] louis_to okay, thanks
[14:52:58] louis_to #2.2: me
[14:53:18] louis_to I pinged the community, alexandro came up with ideas, but that was it
[14:53:29] louis_to I'll go ahead with proposal and post it to a wiki
[14:53:46] louis_to and make strong suggestions as to participation but it's up to the developer/contributor, of course.
[14:53:52] CorNouws did you ask the marcon list?
[14:53:52] louis_to so, a work in progress
[14:53:59] louis_to No.
[14:54:01] louis_to thanks for hint
[14:54:15] CorNouws Yes, e see spendings in Europe
[14:54:22] louis_to many on marcon are project leads of nlc and on project leads
[14:54:26] CorNouws which is fine, but only small part of the world
[14:54:37] *** AN Unknown command
[14:54:44] louis_to an important part :-)
[14:55:10] CorNouws and was there no response on dev@nlc?
[14:55:13] louis_to AI: louis use marcon list and post to wiki list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals
[14:55:39] louis_to I don't think I used nlc, this time--done it before and got nothing really--just project leads and direct queries
[14:56:04] louis_to I think I will get replies once I say, "this is the list" agree or disagree and add if you want
[14:56:14] louis_to Shall we move on to 2.2?
[14:56:55] Thalion72 yes
[14:57:37] CorNouws pls
[14:57:38] louis_to 2.2.1: update after renewed discussion
[14:57:52] louis_to There is no designated updater..
[14:57:59] louis_to sophie? andre? stefan?
[14:58:13] Thalion72 hmm .. discussion has been renewed (somehow)
[14:58:27] louis_to Thalion72: how so?
[14:59:04] Thalion72 Bernhard and I posted new drafts for a policy .. but we got not that much comments
[14:59:09] * _Nesshof_ has not yet fully understood the direction of the renewal, need some more days to dive into discussion again
[14:59:34] CorNouws I read the new drafts, and like them
[14:59:37] louis_to Can we put a closure date on the discussions?
[14:59:55] Thalion72 _Nesshof_: the renewal ismostly about "Make it short, liberate"
[14:59:57] * louis_to note that every debate must have closure; called cloture
[15:00:36] stx12 that makes only sense if there is an actionable outcome...
[15:00:42] CorNouws Thalion72: one thing I would like - if possible ..
[15:00:43] Thalion72 louis_to: we can do so ...the newdrafts are supposed to be very short but refere to soe FAQ
[15:01:02] louis_to then let's
[15:01:06] Thalion72 so in theroy we can start witha short policy and enhance the FAQ
[15:01:27] louis_to precisely
[15:01:33] * louis_to that's what I've wanted....
[15:01:35] Thalion72 CorNouws: what is the thing?
[15:02:04] CorNouws a list of disputes that have been addressed by the new drafts, so what problems have been solved by the new drafts
[15:02:21] CorNouws but maybe that question is superfluous
[15:02:38] CorNouws since people will respond in the next round of discussion?
[15:02:42] louis_to CorNouws: well, having a change record is useful
[15:02:50] Thalion72 uhh .. I don'T think, that the new drafst *solve* the previous disputes .. they more or less try to get around it
[15:02:57] louis_to but inevitably there will still be repeition
[15:03:12] louis_to and "solving" is going to be continual negotiation
[15:03:17] Thalion72 an I think, only Bernhard read all the disputes (I mustconfess I didn't)
[15:03:30] CorNouws Thalion72: getting around also is a sort of solving, IMHO
[15:03:41] sophi Thalion72: I did also :)
[15:04:35] Thalion72 CorNouws: to me, the main thing is, that almostall of the disputes came up, when we put restrictions on the *software*
[15:05:06] Thalion72 but nobody could exactly tell for what reason we like to put restrictions on the software
[15:05:23] CorNouws OK ...
[15:05:26] CorNouws So what we can propose now:
[15:05:26] CorNouws That all cc members have a week to respond, if they like
[15:05:26] CorNouws and that then the poposal is brought to discuss@
[15:05:26] CorNouws ???
[15:05:27] Thalion72 (Only reason was named by Charles)
[15:05:34] louis_to CorNouws: I would agree
[15:05:47] louis_to that we have that deadline, though a week is rather harsh
[15:06:01] louis_to and would suggest rather mid-June
[15:06:01] CorNouws Thalion72: And that was not his reason, but one he guessed others might have, IIRC?
[15:06:06] Thalion72 CorNouws: I'm fine with this .. I'd like o ping REne E. and Caolan for comments
[15:06:29] CorNouws louis_to: a week short? It's only one A4
[15:06:35] Thalion72 :)
[15:06:40] CorNouws and we work on it already half a year or so
[15:06:56] CorNouws And the longer, the less responsive some become
[15:07:11] CorNouws and the cc-coordinators task must not be too heavy ;-)
[15:07:28] Thalion72 and we would go to discuss@ anyway .. so we need to agree to the genaral idea only atm
[15:08:13] CorNouws Only reason to do longer than a week - maybe - if someone form the cc is on vacation ??
[15:08:29] louis_to CorNouws: precisely
[15:08:36] louis_to Matthias is on holiday
[15:08:36] jpmcc who are we missing tonight?
[15:08:43] louis_to mhu
[15:08:58] CorNouws returning when?
[15:09:13] louis_to I cannot recall
[15:09:16] stx12 iirc in 3 weeks
[15:09:52] Thalion72 would be good to have a deputy ;)
[15:10:22] CorNouws a bit long, afaiac ;-) also cause Matthias can join discuss@, which he would not mind
[15:10:46] louis_to okay; shall we move ahead and declare then to finalize in 2 weeks' time?
[15:11:05] louis_to that misses MHU, but I fear others will head off to holiday land soon
[15:11:09] louis_to summer is nearly here....
[15:11:15] Thalion72 likely
[15:11:15] CorNouws yip
[15:11:19] jpmcc +1
[15:11:25] louis_to then let's set the deadline for 2 weeks hence
[15:11:44] louis_to that''s 11 June
[15:11:50] Thalion72 ok ...
[15:12:00] louis_to by which time the available CC members must have read and commented on the proposal(s)
[15:12:29] louis_to any objections?
[15:12:37] jpmcc No
[15:12:39] CorNouws no
[15:12:49] Thalion72 no objections
[15:13:02] louis_to AI to all here, to comment on trademark proposals by 11 June
[15:13:13] louis_to let's move on to 2.3.1: elections
[15:13:17] louis_to status update?
[15:13:44] stx12 i don't think we should leave mhu (and pavel?) out of the game. but who is going to send the proposal to cc members? are all involved in the tm discussion?
[15:13:45] Thalion72 Ineed to excuse for the delay :(
[15:14:08] louis_to stx12: all are subscribed
[15:14:15] louis_to and no, we ought not to leave them out
[15:14:45] louis_to but we are not deciding on the actual trademark policy here as much as urging all cc members to review the proposal with the aim of finalizing
[15:14:57] Thalion72 on elections:I've been almost offline for the lasttwo weeks. SO I didnotprepare andsend the announcement
[15:14:59] louis_to but finalization probably won't occur for at least a week after reading of the text
[15:15:14] stx12 louis_to: which is fine...
[15:15:57] louis_to Thalion72: would you want John or me to help with the announcement?
[15:16:09] louis_to (sorry john; other professional speaker of the language)
[15:16:35] Thalion72 louis_to: yes, would be good. I'm able to work on this on Saturday
[15:16:57] Thalion72 so we should be able to send the annoucement on Monday or Tuesday
[15:16:59] louis_to please send it to me or to the list
[15:17:03] louis_to Yes.
[15:17:09] Thalion72 ok .. I'll send on Saturday
[15:17:21] louis_to thanks
[15:17:47] louis_to AI: Thalion72 to send to louis (and jpmcc) proposal for elections announcement for editing, writing, etc.
[15:17:51] louis_to this Saturday
[15:18:00] louis_to Shall we move on to 2.4?
[15:18:00] Thalion72 yes :)
[15:18:12] Thalion72 +1
[15:18:13] louis_to 2.4.1: Internship: update?
[15:19:02] CorNouws yes
[15:19:26] CorNouws Stefan, I, mba, jsc, Florian had some contact via mail
[15:19:31] stx12 a really update - we just revived the rough ruleset
[15:19:42] stx12 a really short update - we just revived the rough ruleset
[15:19:43] louis_to rough ruleset from?
[15:19:57] louis_to gsoc? or community innovation program?
[15:19:59] stx12 ... for OOo intership
[15:20:06] louis_to okay.
[15:20:13] louis_to stx12: are you working with education program at all?
[15:20:20] louis_to ... or they with you?
[15:20:30] stx12 not yet
[15:20:34] louis_to okay
[15:20:45] CorNouws good to invite them for mentorships, IMO
[15:21:05] * louis_to thinks they need mentors to pick up the project
[15:21:11] stx12 it's planned to involve pleads and mentoring@ooo
[15:21:43] * louis_to suggests that the education project be utilzed as a reource, if possible, to coordinate educational activity
[15:21:46] _Nesshof_ stx12: what is the intended time frame for that ?
[15:21:48] stx12 then then let me ask for feedback from budget holder here:
[15:21:49] louis_to but this is not quite in that domain
[15:22:17] stx12 what are you going to contribute? how muich would you give a paricipant for sucess?
[15:22:32] louis_to can we match google?
[15:22:58] stx12 GSoC gives 4500 USD to students plus 500 to the organization per slot
[15:23:22] CorNouws So yes, we can, only have to set alimit to the # of participants
[15:23:37] louis_to right
[15:23:46] louis_to then I'd say let's at least match them :-)
[15:23:48] stx12 to 3. 5. 10?
[15:23:57] louis_to and set a limit to 5 this time around
[15:24:18] louis_to with a program/contest to get more money and mentors for more next year
[15:24:21] CorNouws 5 K or 5 participants
[15:24:30] louis_to 5K for 5 each
[15:24:38] louis_to total then 25K
[15:24:50] stx12 to match we need only 4500; from which budgets are the 5*4500 URSD coming?
[15:24:51] CorNouws Then I am for more
[15:25:09] louis_to I can donate from my bucket
[15:25:16] _Nesshof_ and mine
[15:25:23] louis_to but not all, of course
[15:25:25] stx12 other's can to ;-)
[15:25:39] * stx12 is waiting for concrete numbers
[15:25:52] louis_to Shall we discuss the division onl list?
[15:25:52] louis_to I need to find out precisley how much I can donate
[15:26:03] louis_to adn I imagine _Nesshof_ must, too
[15:26:21] louis_to and you can put a deadline on this, with issue tracker, even :-)
[15:26:29] stx12 so, we are committed to come up with 30K EUR, ok?
[15:26:38] louis_to +1
[15:26:47] _Nesshof_ stx12: I thought 25k ?
[15:26:49] CorNouws We have some fine general reserves
[15:26:49] CorNouws why not add an extra 15 K out of there?
[15:27:02] stx12 _Nesshof_: and cor said "more"
[15:27:30] * _Nesshof_ is fine with 30k, will offer 10k
[15:27:30] stx12 _Nesshof_: you don't have to spend more than 20K
[15:27:31] louis_to CorNouws I'd say let's hold off as we have other events, etc. related to something like this
[15:27:45] louis_to eg, travel for the winners to OOoCon
[15:27:46] _Nesshof_ stx12: where can the ruleset reviewed ?
[15:28:00] CorNouws I don't know of other events
[15:28:06] CorNouws only rumors
[15:28:11] CorNouws this is action
[15:28:16] CorNouws and development
[15:28:21] CorNouws good to spend on, IMO
[15:28:22] louis_to I don't like foreclosing opotions
[15:28:34] louis_to the amount is already quite generous, don't you think?
[15:28:41] louis_to I agree it's good to spend
[15:28:47] louis_to but I prefer to start prudently
[15:28:48] CorNouws also: we under-spend dramatically last year
[15:28:57] louis_to CorNouws: I know
[15:29:06] stx12 louis_to: which? the total or the amount for each slot?
[15:29:07] louis_to and dislike having money in the pocket
[15:29:13] CorNouws so what if we get 8 good applications?
[15:29:17] louis_to amount/each
[15:29:23] louis_to 5k is more than google
[15:29:30] CorNouws turn of 3 ceause lacj of money - which we do not have - ??
[15:29:43] louis_to CorNouws: we can add more, if we have mentors; but the per student I think should be at 5K
[15:29:59] CorNouws louis_to: yes, of course
[15:30:02] louis_to no: to clarify> I think we should limit payment to students to 5K
[15:30:07] CorNouws I am talking about the total budget
[15:30:10] louis_to and if there are lots of great students and we have mentors, we can add
[15:30:12] louis_to I wasn
[15:30:14] CorNouws thius the total # of participants
[15:30:17] louis_to wasn't
[15:30:36] louis_to let's start at 5; if we have both students and mentors, we can add, adn the budget will be there for us
[15:30:41] CorNouws louis_to: :-)
[15:30:42] louis_to yes?
[15:31:02] stx12 thanks; at least we have a feeling for the range we can work with
[15:31:11] CorNouws what is the total budget suggested, so the # of participants we can have?
[15:31:57] louis_to I think we can estimate by looking at mentors available?
[15:32:41] CorNouws louis_to: I don't understand that logic... for how many participants is a mentor good ?
[15:34:14] stx12 1 menttor to 1 participant
[15:34:18] CorNouws So, when we come up with 15 mentors, we make free 75 K ?
[15:34:33] * CorNouws expeted that answer ;-)
[15:35:05] louis_to :-)
[15:35:13] louis_to I WISH we could have that many
[15:35:26] louis_to heck, I'd donate money to Team OOo again, if we could
[15:35:45] stx12 but lt's not planned to pay mentors
[15:35:46] louis_to but it's very hard getting >5
[15:36:01] louis_to no, of course not; but mentors are scarce
[15:36:32] * louis_to does not mean to bribe them. rather money goes to student only
[15:36:58] louis_to so, are we close to coming to a kind of agreement on the proposal?
[15:37:15] louis_to regarding funding and some limits, as well as action item for stx12--?
[15:37:20] CorNouws Sort of, but still
[15:37:20] CorNouws So if we have three mentors, you expect me to spend a lot of time in promoting and organizing for 3 participants?
[15:37:20] CorNouws And do you want to do that? NOt so efficient, I think
[15:37:38] CorNouws I like ambitions:
[15:37:47] louis_to CorNouws: this is but one element. We also have education program, which has a different ambition
[15:38:01] louis_to the point of this one is efficacy
[15:38:04] CorNouws sya: we ant to spent xxx, so that we can help xxx participants
[15:38:28] CorNouws (louis_to: Edication is not ripe, mature, IMO)
[15:38:29] louis_to and the mentor/student relationship almost guarantees that the student will participate actively in the project after the relationship has ended
[15:38:48] louis_to CorNouws: nope, it is not. but iwe can talk more on this later. it is growing very fast
[15:40:02] CorNouws I do not understand that education has to do financially with our Internship program
[15:40:14] louis_to proposal: That stx12 estimate number of mentors and thus number of students, and thus $, pegging each student at 5K with an upper limit of total expenditure at 35k, unless extraordinary circumstances warrant; and that monies come from Louis's budent, Martin's and ...?
[15:40:16] CorNouws but hey, we can finish financial detaisl next two weeks ...
[15:40:38] louis_to CorNouws: it doesn't ; that's why I said it is approaching this with a different ambition
[15:40:43] stx12 i will propose 7 slot a 4K EUR
[15:40:57] louis_to 4K euro is a lot of USD
[15:41:00] louis_to :-)
[15:41:05] louis_to and even more CAD
[15:41:08] * stx12 will do so next meeting ;-)
[15:41:12] louis_to (roughly 1:1.77)
[15:41:20] louis_to thanks
[15:41:49] louis_to AI: Stefan to suggest the budget for the internship program as suggested by the rproposal
[15:41:53] CorNouws as extra budget I suggest the genreral reserves
[15:42:00] CorNouws for the rest for now ... +1
[15:42:59] louis_to Any objections to the proposal modulo stx12's addendum of 4K?
[15:43:10] jpmcc No
[15:43:11] Thalion72 no objections
[15:43:15] sophi no
[15:43:44] louis_to nor from me
[15:43:51] louis_to if no objections, let's move on
[15:44:13] louis_to 2.5: L10n infrastructure
[15:44:23] louis_to Stefan, André, Cor: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839
[15:44:34] louis_to Do we have updates?
[15:44:36] stx12 no update - at least from me
[15:44:41] Thalion72 no update
[15:44:43] CorNouws Three owners :-)
[15:44:47] louis_to :--)
[15:44:56] louis_to then let's move on
[15:45:00] louis_to 2.6:
[15:45:06] louis_to 2.6.1, I mean
[15:45:14] louis_to Cor: add some content, then ping Louis to mail project leads
[15:45:15] CorNouws OK
[15:45:26] CorNouws added content today
[15:45:27] louis_to I'm happy to work with pleads...
[15:45:28] louis_to ah
[15:45:32] louis_to so, ping me :-_
[15:45:53] CorNouws OK, but first I want to sleep a night or two over the current state
[15:45:57] louis_to Update to 2.6.1: CorNouws added content and must now ping louis to engage the preoject leads
[15:46:02] louis_to no problem
[15:46:05] CorNouws if you understand what I mean
[15:46:09] CorNouws OK you do
[15:46:14] louis_to yes, of course
[15:46:24] louis_to moving on...
[15:46:46] louis_to 2.7.: proposal council coordinator
[15:46:46] louis_to 1. Cor: ask votes of members not present at the meeting
[15:46:53] louis_to update?
[15:47:00] CorNouws We only miss a vote from pavel on the latest post
[15:47:09] CorNouws but he did respond to aprevious one
[15:47:13] CorNouws positively
[15:47:20] CorNouws is he already returned here?
[15:47:27] louis_to negative
[15:47:37] louis_to oh, sorry, I missed him
[15:47:52] louis_to his alias is here, but is he?
[15:48:05] CorNouws " <AUTO-REPLY> : I'm busy"
[15:48:12] louis_to be that as it may, if he shows up before end of this meeting, he can vote on the issue
[15:48:15] CorNouws which does not surprise me ;-)
[15:48:25] louis_to I thus suggest we move on to 3.0: certification
[15:48:30] CorNouws OK
[15:48:38] louis_to OpenOffice.org Certification
[15:48:38] louis_to 1. Review the petition for endorsement.
[15:48:48] louis_to http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education/Certification/Petition
[15:48:58] louis_to have all present reviewed it already?
[15:49:07] Thalion72 yes
[15:49:14] louis_to .. and do you all find it a llittle familliar?
[15:49:22] louis_to take your mind back to April 2007
[15:49:54] * stx12 needs help
[15:49:57] louis_to when I submitted something very simillar, but with more reliance on and engagement with vendors, to the CC offlist
[15:50:55] louis_to it's otherwise essentially the same: to endorse the establishment of a body that would ultimately certify companies and others in the provisioning of support-related material
[15:50:56] louis_to for OOO
[15:51:09] Thalion72 louis_to: I remember ..andI still have the same objections ;)
[15:51:37] * stx12 needs help again - from Thalion72
[15:51:38] louis_to others? I can post my original mail to the list and also subsequent exchange I had with Evan L. regarding the proposal
[15:52:01] CorNouws Thalion72: yes, what is your idea on this?
[15:53:04] Thalion72 well ..my main objection was how all the certification stuff should be paid.
[15:53:39] CorNouws and mine is: how it should all be organized, which to some extend is the same
[15:53:55] CorNouws and can be started with a solid plan?
[15:54:01] Thalion72 the difference I see, is that the current petition does *not* request funding from the project
[15:54:29] CorNouws Indeed, that is OK
[15:54:29] CorNouws And I see the same great potential as the 2007 poposal
[15:54:29] CorNouws But ATM, it is not mature enough, IMHO, to be endorsed as such
[15:54:29] CorNouws and carry the OOo flag for the outer world
[15:54:47] CorNouws It can become, I hope it will
[15:55:35] Thalion72 CorNouws: at the other hand it is a Chicken-Egg-Problem .. you can hardly go on if you donotget the "blessing" of OOo
[15:55:41] jpmcc There's probably a minimum amount of funding they need to secxure to get the thing off the ground...
[15:56:04] jpmcc ...if they can secure that, then they should get our ok.
[15:56:06] Thalion72 but you will only get blessed if you first get something further
[15:56:18] CorNouws Thalion72: jpmcc: so that is an opening for a good direction, where we can help?
[15:56:49] jpmcc They say they have some sponsorship already?
[15:57:01] CorNouws jpmcc: Not precise
[15:57:08] Thalion72 CorNouws: I tnd to agree (I just read the Petition when our meeting started)
[15:57:09] louis_to I would suggest that the proposal be clarified and made more precise
[15:57:35] CorNouws louis_to: that is waht I asked many days ...
[15:57:41] Thalion72 louis_to: tome, the proposal itselfseems to be quite clear
[15:57:45] jpmcc They need to show they can raise enough to set up the company, have a bank account, etc...
[15:57:48] * louis_to notes that great minds tihink alike
[15:57:54] CorNouws jpmcc: when the cc endorses the idea, some government body is willing to pay
[15:58:31] louis_to CorNouws: we've already, back in 2007, endorsed in principle a version of this idea, minus fudning
[15:58:32] jpmcc OK, so let's see a draft business plan (sorry if I sound like a bank employee ;-)
[15:58:49] louis_to jpmcc: that is what is lacking, to me; the business plan
[15:59:04] louis_to because this is a business we are talking about
[15:59:33] jpmcc OK, let's go back with a positive response, but a challenge to come up with a business plan.
[15:59:35] louis_to in 2007 Evan was calling it Open Source Desktop Network, and it was more ambitious by a lot than now
[15:59:35] Thalion72 hmmm ... what would we like to see in the business plan?
[15:59:51] Thalion72 louis_to: no it was not (not to me)
[16:00:00] louis_to ideally details of sponsorship, funding
[16:00:04] CorNouws So we can ask Alexandro, Evan to make a business plan?
[16:00:15] louis_to CorNouws: yes
[16:00:36] CorNouws a business plan holds a shedule, income, spendings, estimated results (students, certificates, partners, ..
[16:00:37] Thalion72 the current petition claims to have a syllabus and most of the materials ready ..that was missing in 2007 - and afair thera was no clear plan how to get this
[16:00:41] louis_to Thalion72: Evan nuanced and made more precise the focus of the ambition
[16:00:45] jpmcc CorNouws: but let's be friendly
[16:00:55] CorNouws Thalion72: that claim is a bit overdone, IMnshO
[16:01:13] CorNouws jpmcc: Yes, we can ask for that plan, and help funding it?
[16:01:20] louis_to jpmcc: agreed. I think the idea has merit--obviously--but I thnk that there are a couple of risks
[16:01:44] louis_to 1 it lacks the details a business plan would offer, and I would like to understand the nature of the syllabus, etc., the collateral
[16:01:49] Thalion72 ok .. ask for the plan (and I'd like to know, where we are at the moment - means, what materials are already available)
[16:02:13] sophi louis_to: all is in the project, on issue or wiki
[16:02:16] louis_to 2. I'm uncertain how it will be sustained (part of the business plan) and how its governance will be established-
[16:02:32] CorNouws OK, I had quite some contact with Alexandro on this
[16:02:33] louis_to that is, who makes the decisions, ultimately? the company people? CC?
[16:02:37] louis_to that seems missing to me.
[16:02:39] sophi louis_to: governance team is on the wiki page
[16:02:43] CorNouws Shall I make contact and ask for
[16:02:52] CorNouws ...
[16:02:57] Thalion72 CorNouws: yes, please
[16:03:05] CorNouws 1. materials
[16:03:14] CorNouws 2. if they can make a business plan
[16:03:29] * louis_to guess evan's got one ready; he did last time :-)
[16:03:31] CorNouws 3. if it helps, if we give little support ($) for that?
[16:03:37] sophi bye all
[16:03:43] * CorNouws interested to see it
[16:03:43] louis_to bye, sophi
[16:03:46] *** sophi has quit IRC ("Leaving.")
[16:03:48] Thalion72 bye sophi
[16:03:50] Thalion72 :(
[16:03:54] CorNouws bye sophie :-)
[16:04:42] louis_to If it helkps, I'd suggest 250 CAD for the plan. But I would also like to to see details of the biz plan related to governance too
[16:05:08] louis_to eg, say we disagree with the endorsements?
[16:05:11] CorNouws jpmcc: is this friendly enough, in your opinion?
[16:05:23] louis_to this company is representing OOo, after all
[16:05:27] CorNouws louis_to: no, just need more info first
[16:05:35] louis_to CorNouws: okay.
[16:05:47] * louis_to for context, sends off the old proposal
[16:06:02] * louis_to notes the google group is still there, though dormant
[16:06:38] Thalion72 ok .. 2 AI's?
[16:07:11] CorNouws Thalion72: 2?
[16:07:13] Thalion72 louis_to tosent the old plan just as reminder what we had already done
[16:07:16] louis_to done
[16:07:30] Thalion72 CorNouws: to ask for business plan and existing materials
[16:07:48] louis_to CC decision was made in Barrcelona, where Thalion72 argued very persuasively
[16:07:49] louis_to :-)
[16:08:16] louis_to AI: CorNouws to ask as stated above
[16:08:24] CorNouws 2. continued: and suggest 250 CAD for the plan (and include wishes mentioned here)
[16:09:47] Thalion72 fine with me
[16:10:03] CorNouws I think it is indeed important.
[16:10:03] CorNouws The idea, potential is great.
[16:10:03] CorNouws But needs good organizing skills etc etc
[16:10:03] CorNouws So presenting what the cc asks, is a first step to prove the potential of success !
[16:10:12] louis_to do we have any other interventions?
[16:10:51] louis_to if not, then let's move on...
[16:10:59] CorNouws yes pls
[16:11:05] louis_to 4.1: Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
[16:11:05] louis_to 1. formalise the practise to delegate confirmation of Incubator project to project_leads@ and for native language projects to leads of NLC.
[16:11:28] louis_to I can take this on
[16:11:41] louis_to stx12 had a fine notion last session
[16:11:43] CorNouws Yes, that was taken from the last meeting
[16:11:49] louis_to ie, formalise current practice
[16:11:53] louis_to indeed; thanks
[16:12:06] CorNouws shouldn't we just vote??
[16:12:22] louis_to sure, but the language will do?
[16:12:34] stx12 louis_to: hm, we took the burden of the fomalities from the pleads to the CC in 2003 and now we are putting it back?
[16:12:48] louis_to no
[16:12:50] stx12 at least some sort of?
[16:12:56] louis_to as I understand it
[16:13:29] Thalion72 hmm .. didwe really took the burden?
[16:13:34] louis_to : to stipulate that the category leads of Incubator and NLC and other categories are delegated axiomatically by the CC to create and dsi-create projects in their categories
[16:13:45] louis_to that is the proposal I'd ask to vote on
[16:13:52] Thalion72 I know, the dicussion was brought up by my request at the last meeting
[16:14:21] louis_to amended : should an act be seen as counter to the bset interests of the Project by the CC, the CC reserves the right to act in the matter
[16:14:48] * Thalion72 abstains
[16:15:50] louis_to cimment?
[16:15:57] Thalion72 and others do not vote :)
[16:16:02] louis_to sigh
[16:16:10] louis_to basically, it's validating status quo
[16:16:20] CorNouws I vote +1 :-)
[16:16:27] louis_to while authorizing the CC directly to intervene as needed, per the new charter
[16:17:01] * louis_to falls asleep
[16:17:13] stx12 would the category leads delegate to all pleads or only those within their category?
[16:17:28] CorNouws louis_to: othere were faster than you ;-)
[16:17:45] jpmcc louis_to: zzzzzzz
[16:17:47] * louis_to wife just called
[16:17:47] * _Nesshof_ runs out of battery
[16:17:57] louis_to stx12; how are pleads relevant?
[16:18:39] Thalion72 btw ... I abstain, as I cannot find our "old" ruls how to setup projects, and advance from incubator to accepted
[16:18:48] louis_to the issue is that if a project is deemed to be nonactive, and iff all former participatns declare it to be dead, then the incubator or NLC lead can kill it
[16:19:24] Thalion72 (ahh .. just found them)
[16:19:48] louis_to http://www.openoffice.org/about_us/protocols_proposing.html#settingup
[16:20:02] stx12 oh, i misunderstood the proposal. power is delegated *to* the category leads and not delegated *by* them
[16:20:06] louis_to yes.
[16:20:14] louis_to hence the term "category leads"
[16:20:16] louis_to sorry
[16:20:25] louis_to the final language would be a little better
[16:21:04] stx12 then it only needs a revised text for the just mentioned text.
[16:21:19] louis_to yes
[16:21:20] stx12 as you say it is best practise...
[16:21:35] louis_to minimal effort practice=best
[16:21:42] paveljanik BTW: +1 for coordinator even with names (for the minutes ;-)
[16:21:49] louis_to thanks!
[16:21:59] louis_to woo-hoo
[16:22:01] CorNouws paveljanik: thanks :-)
[16:22:45] louis_to so, to the other matter at hand, as stated and nuanced, thie idea is to formalize what is done now but to grant the CC direct intervention authority should the need arise
[16:22:56] stx12 louis_to: if the project creation / removal within incubator / nlc needs clarification, then I would b ehappy to read revised doc and vote on it.
[16:23:21] louis_to give me a few minutes. And I can rather send it to the list
[16:23:32] stx12 i think we agree on the general idea
[16:23:45] Thalion72 louis_to: I'd even give you some days ;)
[16:23:53] stx12 about 12
[16:24:00] Thalion72 so that we can read before the next meeting and then vote on it
[16:24:58] louis_to proposal: The lead of Incubator and the two leads of the Native Language Confederation are delegated by the Community Council to create and dis-create projects in their respective categories as needed; the Community Council reserves the right to intervene in any act of creation or discreation as it sees fit.
[16:25:16] jpmcc dis-create?
[16:25:25] louis_to expunge?
[16:25:28] louis_to but theiy are not
[16:25:41] louis_to kill?
[16:25:43] louis_to mothball?
[16:25:45] louis_to undo?
[16:25:46] louis_to whatever
[16:25:46] jpmcc remove?
[16:25:48] Thalion72 terminate
[16:25:55] louis_to all those sound so drastic
[16:25:57] louis_to but the idea is good
[16:26:01] jpmcc ex-terminate (like the daleks ;-)
[16:26:05] louis_to :-)
[16:26:11] louis_to "remove" sounds best
[16:26:34] louis_to but let's vote?
[16:26:35] stx12 I don't think creation is done "as needed". there is a fine description of the steps.
[16:26:36] Thalion72 anihilate ? :)
[16:26:55] louis_to "as requested"
[16:26:59] Thalion72 but I second stx12
[16:26:59] jpmcc retire
[16:27:09] louis_to yeah, I like "retire"
[16:27:13] * stx12 would like to retire for today
[16:27:25] Thalion72 as we have some good rules for creation, we should have some for the opposit as well
[16:27:27] louis_to do we agree on "as requested" and "retire"?
[16:27:40] louis_to but we do not have to spell them out righ tnow
[16:27:54] jpmcc I agree to retire asap
[16:28:02] louis_to as we are voting only on the general delegation of authority
[16:28:05] Thalion72 louis_to: hmm ..ifyou are really calling for a vote ...
[16:28:19] louis_to a closure to this fairly minor issue
[16:28:25] CorNouws Thalion72: +1 ??
[16:28:26] Thalion72 no, we are voting on the proposal, as currenty written
[16:28:37] louis_to so we can work on the larger one of spelling out what is entailed by removal
[16:28:38] Thalion72 and tis will get a -1
[16:28:39] stx12 and we are asked to vote on the document change again?
[16:28:43] louis_to and retirement
[16:28:48] CorNouws Thalion72: Oops ;-)
[16:29:20] louis_to okay, I table this for next meeting and in the meanwihle suggest we work on the steps of retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
[16:29:36] louis_to AI: stx12, louis_to, Thalion72
[16:29:43] * CorNouws Sorry for joking on André, was not mentioned to take him not serious
[16:30:10] louis_to with louis_to to come up with initial draft, stx12 with steps for retirement/removal/ and Thalion72 to reivew and edit as needed
[16:30:22] Thalion72 CorNouws: no problem ;) ... I'tslate enough, so I don'ttake serious myself
[16:30:23] stx12 you may want to out you at the first position in the list of ai owners.
[16:30:43] louis_to stx12: you refer to me?
[16:30:48] stx12 sure ;-)
[16:31:07] louis_to hm. not sure what you mean, exactly
[16:31:22] CorNouws Three owners is no owner :-)
[16:31:43] CorNouws We know, Stefan, don 't we?
[16:31:44] louis_to okay, AI louis and to work with the others cited
[16:31:48] stx12 CorNouws: yes, but then it was spelled out
[16:32:02] louis_to and also others as wanted
[16:32:07] louis_to if no other comments?
[16:32:18] CorNouws not from me
[16:32:19] louis_to I move we adjourn tonight's meeting, then
[16:32:33] CorNouws shall I do AI's ?
[16:32:42] louis_to yes, please!
[16:32:46] CorNouws someone interested in minutes?
[16:32:48] * louis_to is ever so thankful!!
[16:33:00] CorNouws ( I won't do those, btw ;-) )
[16:33:04] louis_to I can send off iRC log
[16:33:05] Thalion72 interested in reading or doingminutes? ;)
[16:33:15] CorNouws louis_to: your'e welcome
[16:33:20] CorNouws doing, of course
[16:33:34] CorNouws But I include "decided"on the wiki
[16:33:48] * Thalion72 is not really interested but will do at the weekend
[16:34:09] *** jpmcc has quit IRC ("Bye....")
[16:34:09] louis_to Thanks!
[16:34:18] CorNouws Thalion72: maybe look at the wiki first, the sun might be waiting for you diring the weekend
[16:34:36] louis_to if no objections, I call meeting adjourned
</pre>

Community Council Log 20090528

2009-05-29T22:17:24Z

LouisSuarez:

== IRC Log of Community Council Meeting 2009-05-28 ==

'''Attendees'''

* Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_)
* Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
* André Schnabel (Thalion72)
* Pavel Janik (paveljanik)
* Louis Suárez-Potts (louis_to)
* Stefan Taxhet (stx12)
* Sophie Gautier, John McCreesh

* Absent: * Matthias Huetsch (mhu)

<pre>

[14:34:11] louis_to shall we start?
[14:34:11] louis_to http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/The_OpenOffice.org_Community_Council_Agenda
[14:34:15] louis_to that's the link for agenda
[14:37:09] louis_to ping?
[14:37:17] jpmcc pong
[14:37:28] _Nesshof_ no more timeout
[14:37:28] louis_to hi john; glad you could make it
[14:37:36] stx12 hi all
[14:37:43] louis_to hi stx12
[14:37:46] CorNouws Agenda looks OK to me ;-)
[14:37:52] louis_to lol
[14:38:21] CorNouws wow: also for the rest of us?
[14:38:31] CorNouws wow = with other words ;-)
[14:38:37] louis_to brb
[14:38:37] sophi CorNouws: ok for me
[14:38:40] Thalion72 yes ... I would have commented, if soemthing was not ok ;)
[14:39:42] CorNouws We're running out of time. I popose to start with #2
[14:40:02] Thalion72 yes ..please
[14:40:49] louis_to Trademark?
[14:40:54] louis_to or action items?
[14:41:00] Thalion72 action Items
[14:41:13] louis_to okay, let's start; meeting has commenced
[14:41:26] louis_to Action items - from previous meeting(s)
[14:41:26] louis_to 1. Budget
[14:41:26] louis_to 1. Matthias, André and Cor agreed on a meeting regarding budget issues for next monday.
[14:41:43] CorNouws Yes, I have a report
[14:41:43] louis_to that's 2.1, budget...
[14:42:02] louis_to CorNouws: and?
[14:42:14] CorNouws About the first years
[14:42:30] CorNouws In the first years, though there were spendings, there was no real focus on budget and accounting, nor on promoting the spending for projects.
[14:42:30] CorNouws Also especially in the last few years more is donated.
[14:42:47] CorNouws From this first period roughly some 400 K will be left. But this is uncertain, since still taxes have to be paid.
[14:42:47] CorNouws Also, a significant amount of the money in the accounts is earmarked
[14:43:05] CorNouws This has to be fully clear first.
[14:43:12] CorNouws And also we have a better idea on how we can promote the spending - at least that is what we tried last year
[14:43:23] CorNouws Then the idea is to come up with is more structured budget planning for the next years.
[14:44:01] CorNouws That is more or less what I learned of the meeting.
[14:44:12] CorNouws André, OK?
[14:44:31] _Nesshof_ what should the "more structured" look like ?
[14:45:12] CorNouws _Nesshof_: With knowledge about what we more or less can expect and
[14:45:29] CorNouws (as income) and what people might ask
[14:45:30] Thalion72 to me yes: myshort summary: TeamOOo is still waiting for answer form the tax office .. until this has been received, the current budget is the "best and most solid estimation" we have
[14:46:15] stx12 ... and we can continue to work with...
[14:46:18] louis_to is there any idea when the tax office will act?
[14:46:39] CorNouws louis_to: as soon as they have info // ;-)
[14:46:46] paveljanik I have to leave now for an hour or so, sorry
[14:46:50] _Nesshof_ our tax attorney has sent the files to the tax office, ... still waiting for reaction
[14:46:54] louis_to bye...
[14:47:04] Thalion72 bye pavel
[14:47:04] stx12 bye pavel
[14:47:37] _Nesshof_ but independently from that, we're still seem not be able to spend the money we approved for this year
[14:47:38] louis_to CorNouws, others; we can estimate budget holding for the coming, actual year
[14:47:38] CorNouws _Nesshof_: Ah, good. you might consider to ping them
[14:47:54] CorNouws Yes, same as past is Matthias idea
[14:47:55] louis_to _Nesshof_: we could spend more easily enough
[14:47:59] CorNouws and I support that
[14:48:31] louis_to for instance, there are trips I've declined b/c the belief that my request qould be declined; and marketing could be allocated more funds altogether
[14:48:41] CorNouws So, AFAIAC, everything is clear for this moment
[14:48:47] stx12 it doesn't seem to be easy - at least that's my experienc efrom last year
[14:49:37] louis_to not easy to spend money?
[14:49:40] Thalion72 louis_to: start to spend your budget ...
[14:49:42] louis_to I disagree
[14:49:43] CorNouws louis_to: that is why we agreed few months agoo that we should get an estimate of possible requests / spendings ..
[14:49:53] louis_to Thalion72: I am already, but there are some areas that are in the gray zone
[14:49:56] louis_to eg, travel
[14:50:16] Thalion72 louis_to: as budget holder it is up to *you* what to spend the money for
[14:50:18] louis_to I know, and the community has not really responded at all. last time Thalion72 suggested just do it
[14:50:34] louis_to Thalion72: there are still guidelines
[14:50:48] louis_to which I llike to respect
[14:50:49] Thalion72 sorry, but I did notagree on the bdget procedures, just to have the budeget holder now asking the councile (instead of direct requests)
[14:51:02] louis_to okay, anyway, it's a side issue.
[14:51:04] stx12 louis_to: just discuss with your advisors and you'll get the feedback whether gray is white or black
[14:51:13] louis_to the point is to come up with ... as stx12 suggests
[14:51:37] louis_to so, back to CorNouws' report
[14:52:37] CorNouws That is finished.
[14:52:42] Thalion72 I think, the report is complete
[14:52:44] louis_to okay, thanks
[14:52:58] louis_to #2.2: me
[14:53:18] louis_to I pinged the community, alexandro came up with ideas, but that was it
[14:53:29] louis_to I'll go ahead with proposal and post it to a wiki
[14:53:46] louis_to and make strong suggestions as to participation but it's up to the developer/contributor, of course.
[14:53:52] CorNouws did you ask the marcon list?
[14:53:52] louis_to so, a work in progress
[14:53:59] louis_to No.
[14:54:01] louis_to thanks for hint
[14:54:15] CorNouws Yes, e see spendings in Europe
[14:54:22] louis_to many on marcon are project leads of nlc and on project leads
[14:54:26] CorNouws which is fine, but only small part of the world
[14:54:37] *** AN Unknown command
[14:54:44] louis_to an important part :-)
[14:55:10] CorNouws and was there no response on dev@nlc?
[14:55:13] louis_to AI: louis use marcon list and post to wiki list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals
[14:55:39] louis_to I don't think I used nlc, this time--done it before and got nothing really--just project leads and direct queries
[14:56:04] louis_to I think I will get replies once I say, "this is the list" agree or disagree and add if you want
[14:56:14] louis_to Shall we move on to 2.2?
[14:56:55] Thalion72 yes
[14:57:37] CorNouws pls
[14:57:38] louis_to 2.2.1: update after renewed discussion
[14:57:52] louis_to There is no designated updater..
[14:57:59] louis_to sophie? andre? stefan?
[14:58:13] Thalion72 hmm .. discussion has been renewed (somehow)
[14:58:27] louis_to Thalion72: how so?
[14:59:04] Thalion72 Bernhard and I posted new drafts for a policy .. but we got not that much comments
[14:59:09] * _Nesshof_ has not yet fully understood the direction of the renewal, need some more days to dive into discussion again
[14:59:34] CorNouws I read the new drafts, and like them
[14:59:37] louis_to Can we put a closure date on the discussions?
[14:59:55] Thalion72 _Nesshof_: the renewal ismostly about "Make it short, liberate"
[14:59:57] * louis_to note that every debate must have closure; called cloture
[15:00:36] stx12 that makes only sense if there is an actionable outcome...
[15:00:42] CorNouws Thalion72: one thing I would like - if possible ..
[15:00:43] Thalion72 louis_to: we can do so ...the newdrafts are supposed to be very short but refere to soe FAQ
[15:01:02] louis_to then let's
[15:01:06] Thalion72 so in theroy we can start witha short policy and enhance the FAQ
[15:01:27] louis_to precisely
[15:01:33] * louis_to that's what I've wanted....
[15:01:35] Thalion72 CorNouws: what is the thing?
[15:02:04] CorNouws a list of disputes that have been addressed by the new drafts, so what problems have been solved by the new drafts
[15:02:21] CorNouws but maybe that question is superfluous
[15:02:38] CorNouws since people will respond in the next round of discussion?
[15:02:42] louis_to CorNouws: well, having a change record is useful
[15:02:50] Thalion72 uhh .. I don'T think, that the new drafst *solve* the previous disputes .. they more or less try to get around it
[15:02:57] louis_to but inevitably there will still be repeition
[15:03:12] louis_to and "solving" is going to be continual negotiation
[15:03:17] Thalion72 an I think, only Bernhard read all the disputes (I mustconfess I didn't)
[15:03:30] CorNouws Thalion72: getting around also is a sort of solving, IMHO
[15:03:41] sophi Thalion72: I did also :)
[15:04:35] Thalion72 CorNouws: to me, the main thing is, that almostall of the disputes came up, when we put restrictions on the *software*
[15:05:06] Thalion72 but nobody could exactly tell for what reason we like to put restrictions on the software
[15:05:23] CorNouws OK ...
[15:05:26] CorNouws So what we can propose now:
[15:05:26] CorNouws That all cc members have a week to respond, if they like
[15:05:26] CorNouws and that then the poposal is brought to discuss@
[15:05:26] CorNouws ???
[15:05:27] Thalion72 (Only reason was named by Charles)
[15:05:34] louis_to CorNouws: I would agree
[15:05:47] louis_to that we have that deadline, though a week is rather harsh
[15:06:01] louis_to and would suggest rather mid-June
[15:06:01] CorNouws Thalion72: And that was not his reason, but one he guessed others might have, IIRC?
[15:06:06] Thalion72 CorNouws: I'm fine with this .. I'd like o ping REne E. and Caolan for comments
[15:06:29] CorNouws louis_to: a week short? It's only one A4
[15:06:35] Thalion72 :)
[15:06:40] CorNouws and we work on it already half a year or so
[15:06:56] CorNouws And the longer, the less responsive some become
[15:07:11] CorNouws and the cc-coordinators task must not be too heavy ;-)
[15:07:28] Thalion72 and we would go to discuss@ anyway .. so we need to agree to the genaral idea only atm
[15:08:13] CorNouws Only reason to do longer than a week - maybe - if someone form the cc is on vacation ??
[15:08:29] louis_to CorNouws: precisely
[15:08:36] louis_to Matthias is on holiday
[15:08:36] jpmcc who are we missing tonight?
[15:08:43] louis_to mhu
[15:08:58] CorNouws returning when?
[15:09:13] louis_to I cannot recall
[15:09:16] stx12 iirc in 3 weeks
[15:09:52] Thalion72 would be good to have a deputy ;)
[15:10:22] CorNouws a bit long, afaiac ;-) also cause Matthias can join discuss@, which he would not mind
[15:10:46] louis_to okay; shall we move ahead and declare then to finalize in 2 weeks' time?
[15:11:05] louis_to that misses MHU, but I fear others will head off to holiday land soon
[15:11:09] louis_to summer is nearly here....
[15:11:15] Thalion72 likely
[15:11:15] CorNouws yip
[15:11:19] jpmcc +1
[15:11:25] louis_to then let's set the deadline for 2 weeks hence
[15:11:44] louis_to that''s 11 June
[15:11:50] Thalion72 ok ...
[15:12:00] louis_to by which time the available CC members must have read and commented on the proposal(s)
[15:12:29] louis_to any objections?
[15:12:37] jpmcc No
[15:12:39] CorNouws no
[15:12:49] Thalion72 no objections
[15:13:02] louis_to AI to all here, to comment on trademark proposals by 11 June
[15:13:13] louis_to let's move on to 2.3.1: elections
[15:13:17] louis_to status update?
[15:13:44] stx12 i don't think we should leave mhu (and pavel?) out of the game. but who is going to send the proposal to cc members? are all involved in the tm discussion?
[15:13:45] Thalion72 Ineed to excuse for the delay :(
[15:14:08] louis_to stx12: all are subscribed
[15:14:15] louis_to and no, we ought not to leave them out
[15:14:45] louis_to but we are not deciding on the actual trademark policy here as much as urging all cc members to review the proposal with the aim of finalizing
[15:14:57] Thalion72 on elections:I've been almost offline for the lasttwo weeks. SO I didnotprepare andsend the announcement
[15:14:59] louis_to but finalization probably won't occur for at least a week after reading of the text
[15:15:14] stx12 louis_to: which is fine...
[15:15:57] louis_to Thalion72: would you want John or me to help with the announcement?
[15:16:09] louis_to (sorry john; other professional speaker of the language)
[15:16:35] Thalion72 louis_to: yes, would be good. I'm able to work on this on Saturday
[15:16:57] Thalion72 so we should be able to send the annoucement on Monday or Tuesday
[15:16:59] louis_to please send it to me or to the list
[15:17:03] louis_to Yes.
[15:17:09] Thalion72 ok .. I'll send on Saturday
[15:17:21] louis_to thanks
[15:17:47] louis_to AI: Thalion72 to send to louis (and jpmcc) proposal for elections announcement for editing, writing, etc.
[15:17:51] louis_to this Saturday
[15:18:00] louis_to Shall we move on to 2.4?
[15:18:00] Thalion72 yes :)
[15:18:12] Thalion72 +1
[15:18:13] louis_to 2.4.1: Internship: update?
[15:19:02] CorNouws yes
[15:19:26] CorNouws Stefan, I, mba, jsc, Florian had some contact via mail
[15:19:31] stx12 a really update - we just revived the rough ruleset
[15:19:42] stx12 a really short update - we just revived the rough ruleset
[15:19:43] louis_to rough ruleset from?
[15:19:57] louis_to gsoc? or community innovation program?
[15:19:59] stx12 ... for OOo intership
[15:20:06] louis_to okay.
[15:20:13] louis_to stx12: are you working with education program at all?
[15:20:20] louis_to ... or they with you?
[15:20:30] stx12 not yet
[15:20:34] louis_to okay
[15:20:45] CorNouws good to invite them for mentorships, IMO
[15:21:05] * louis_to thinks they need mentors to pick up the project
[15:21:11] stx12 it's planned to involve pleads and mentoring@ooo
[15:21:43] * louis_to suggests that the education project be utilzed as a reource, if possible, to coordinate educational activity
[15:21:46] _Nesshof_ stx12: what is the intended time frame for that ?
[15:21:48] stx12 then then let me ask for feedback from budget holder here:
[15:21:49] louis_to but this is not quite in that domain
[15:22:17] stx12 what are you going to contribute? how muich would you give a paricipant for sucess?
[15:22:32] louis_to can we match google?
[15:22:58] stx12 GSoC gives 4500 USD to students plus 500 to the organization per slot
[15:23:22] CorNouws So yes, we can, only have to set alimit to the # of participants
[15:23:37] louis_to right
[15:23:46] louis_to then I'd say let's at least match them :-)
[15:23:48] stx12 to 3. 5. 10?
[15:23:57] louis_to and set a limit to 5 this time around
[15:24:18] louis_to with a program/contest to get more money and mentors for more next year
[15:24:21] CorNouws 5 K or 5 participants
[15:24:30] louis_to 5K for 5 each
[15:24:38] louis_to total then 25K
[15:24:50] stx12 to match we need only 4500; from which budgets are the 5*4500 URSD coming?
[15:24:51] CorNouws Then I am for more
[15:25:09] louis_to I can donate from my bucket
[15:25:16] _Nesshof_ and mine
[15:25:23] louis_to but not all, of course
[15:25:25] stx12 other's can to ;-)
[15:25:39] * stx12 is waiting for concrete numbers
[15:25:52] louis_to Shall we discuss the division onl list?
[15:25:52] louis_to I need to find out precisley how much I can donate
[15:26:03] louis_to adn I imagine _Nesshof_ must, too
[15:26:21] louis_to and you can put a deadline on this, with issue tracker, even :-)
[15:26:29] stx12 so, we are committed to come up with 30K EUR, ok?
[15:26:38] louis_to +1
[15:26:47] _Nesshof_ stx12: I thought 25k ?
[15:26:49] CorNouws We have some fine general reserves
[15:26:49] CorNouws why not add an extra 15 K out of there?
[15:27:02] stx12 _Nesshof_: and cor said "more"
[15:27:30] * _Nesshof_ is fine with 30k, will offer 10k
[15:27:30] stx12 _Nesshof_: you don't have to spend more than 20K
[15:27:31] louis_to CorNouws I'd say let's hold off as we have other events, etc. related to something like this
[15:27:45] louis_to eg, travel for the winners to OOoCon
[15:27:46] _Nesshof_ stx12: where can the ruleset reviewed ?
[15:28:00] CorNouws I don't know of other events
[15:28:06] CorNouws only rumors
[15:28:11] CorNouws this is action
[15:28:16] CorNouws and development
[15:28:21] CorNouws good to spend on, IMO
[15:28:22] louis_to I don't like foreclosing opotions
[15:28:34] louis_to the amount is already quite generous, don't you think?
[15:28:41] louis_to I agree it's good to spend
[15:28:47] louis_to but I prefer to start prudently
[15:28:48] CorNouws also: we under-spend dramatically last year
[15:28:57] louis_to CorNouws: I know
[15:29:06] stx12 louis_to: which? the total or the amount for each slot?
[15:29:07] louis_to and dislike having money in the pocket
[15:29:13] CorNouws so what if we get 8 good applications?
[15:29:17] louis_to amount/each
[15:29:23] louis_to 5k is more than google
[15:29:30] CorNouws turn of 3 ceause lacj of money - which we do not have - ??
[15:29:43] louis_to CorNouws: we can add more, if we have mentors; but the per student I think should be at 5K
[15:29:59] CorNouws louis_to: yes, of course
[15:30:02] louis_to no: to clarify> I think we should limit payment to students to 5K
[15:30:07] CorNouws I am talking about the total budget
[15:30:10] louis_to and if there are lots of great students and we have mentors, we can add
[15:30:12] louis_to I wasn
[15:30:14] CorNouws thius the total # of participants
[15:30:17] louis_to wasn't
[15:30:36] louis_to let's start at 5; if we have both students and mentors, we can add, adn the budget will be there for us
[15:30:41] CorNouws louis_to: :-)
[15:30:42] louis_to yes?
[15:31:02] stx12 thanks; at least we have a feeling for the range we can work with
[15:31:11] CorNouws what is the total budget suggested, so the # of participants we can have?
[15:31:57] louis_to I think we can estimate by looking at mentors available?
[15:32:41] CorNouws louis_to: I don't understand that logic... for how many participants is a mentor good ?
[15:34:14] stx12 1 menttor to 1 participant
[15:34:18] CorNouws So, when we come up with 15 mentors, we make free 75 K ?
[15:34:33] * CorNouws expeted that answer ;-)
[15:35:05] louis_to :-)
[15:35:13] louis_to I WISH we could have that many
[15:35:26] louis_to heck, I'd donate money to Team OOo again, if we could
[15:35:45] stx12 but lt's not planned to pay mentors
[15:35:46] louis_to but it's very hard getting >5
[15:36:01] louis_to no, of course not; but mentors are scarce
[15:36:32] * louis_to does not mean to bribe them. rather money goes to student only
[15:36:58] louis_to so, are we close to coming to a kind of agreement on the proposal?
[15:37:15] louis_to regarding funding and some limits, as well as action item for stx12--?
[15:37:20] CorNouws Sort of, but still
[15:37:20] CorNouws So if we have three mentors, you expect me to spend a lot of time in promoting and organizing for 3 participants?
[15:37:20] CorNouws And do you want to do that? NOt so efficient, I think
[15:37:38] CorNouws I like ambitions:
[15:37:47] louis_to CorNouws: this is but one element. We also have education program, which has a different ambition
[15:38:01] louis_to the point of this one is efficacy
[15:38:04] CorNouws sya: we ant to spent xxx, so that we can help xxx participants
[15:38:28] CorNouws (louis_to: Edication is not ripe, mature, IMO)
[15:38:29] louis_to and the mentor/student relationship almost guarantees that the student will participate actively in the project after the relationship has ended
[15:38:48] louis_to CorNouws: nope, it is not. but iwe can talk more on this later. it is growing very fast
[15:40:02] CorNouws I do not understand that education has to do financially with our Internship program
[15:40:14] louis_to proposal: That stx12 estimate number of mentors and thus number of students, and thus $, pegging each student at 5K with an upper limit of total expenditure at 35k, unless extraordinary circumstances warrant; and that monies come from Louis's budent, Martin's and ...?
[15:40:16] CorNouws but hey, we can finish financial detaisl next two weeks ...
[15:40:38] louis_to CorNouws: it doesn't ; that's why I said it is approaching this with a different ambition
[15:40:43] stx12 i will propose 7 slot a 4K EUR
[15:40:57] louis_to 4K euro is a lot of USD
[15:41:00] louis_to :-)
[15:41:05] louis_to and even more CAD
[15:41:08] * stx12 will do so next meeting ;-)
[15:41:12] louis_to (roughly 1:1.77)
[15:41:20] louis_to thanks
[15:41:49] louis_to AI: Stefan to suggest the budget for the internship program as suggested by the rproposal
[15:41:53] CorNouws as extra budget I suggest the genreral reserves
[15:42:00] CorNouws for the rest for now ... +1
[15:42:59] louis_to Any objections to the proposal modulo stx12's addendum of 4K?
[15:43:10] jpmcc No
[15:43:11] Thalion72 no objections
[15:43:15] sophi no
[15:43:44] louis_to nor from me
[15:43:51] louis_to if no objections, let's move on
[15:44:13] louis_to 2.5: L10n infrastructure
[15:44:23] louis_to Stefan, André, Cor: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839
[15:44:34] louis_to Do we have updates?
[15:44:36] stx12 no update - at least from me
[15:44:41] Thalion72 no update
[15:44:43] CorNouws Three owners :-)
[15:44:47] louis_to :--)
[15:44:56] louis_to then let's move on
[15:45:00] louis_to 2.6:
[15:45:06] louis_to 2.6.1, I mean
[15:45:14] louis_to Cor: add some content, then ping Louis to mail project leads
[15:45:15] CorNouws OK
[15:45:26] CorNouws added content today
[15:45:27] louis_to I'm happy to work with pleads...
[15:45:28] louis_to ah
[15:45:32] louis_to so, ping me :-_
[15:45:53] CorNouws OK, but first I want to sleep a night or two over the current state
[15:45:57] louis_to Update to 2.6.1: CorNouws added content and must now ping louis to engage the preoject leads
[15:46:02] louis_to no problem
[15:46:05] CorNouws if you understand what I mean
[15:46:09] CorNouws OK you do
[15:46:14] louis_to yes, of course
[15:46:24] louis_to moving on...
[15:46:46] louis_to 2.7.: proposal council coordinator
[15:46:46] louis_to 1. Cor: ask votes of members not present at the meeting
[15:46:53] louis_to update?
[15:47:00] CorNouws We only miss a vote from pavel on the latest post
[15:47:09] CorNouws but he did respond to aprevious one
[15:47:13] CorNouws positively
[15:47:20] CorNouws is he already returned here?
[15:47:27] louis_to negative
[15:47:37] louis_to oh, sorry, I missed him
[15:47:52] louis_to his alias is here, but is he?
[15:48:05] CorNouws " <AUTO-REPLY> : I'm busy"
[15:48:12] louis_to be that as it may, if he shows up before end of this meeting, he can vote on the issue
[15:48:15] CorNouws which does not surprise me ;-)
[15:48:25] louis_to I thus suggest we move on to 3.0: certification
[15:48:30] CorNouws OK
[15:48:38] louis_to OpenOffice.org Certification
[15:48:38] louis_to 1. Review the petition for endorsement.
[15:48:48] louis_to http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education/Certification/Petition
[15:48:58] louis_to have all present reviewed it already?
[15:49:07] Thalion72 yes
[15:49:14] louis_to .. and do you all find it a llittle familliar?
[15:49:22] louis_to take your mind back to April 2007
[15:49:54] * stx12 needs help
[15:49:57] louis_to when I submitted something very simillar, but with more reliance on and engagement with vendors, to the CC offlist
[15:50:55] louis_to it's otherwise essentially the same: to endorse the establishment of a body that would ultimately certify companies and others in the provisioning of support-related material
[15:50:56] louis_to for OOO
[15:51:09] Thalion72 louis_to: I remember ..andI still have the same objections ;)
[15:51:37] * stx12 needs help again - from Thalion72
[15:51:38] louis_to others? I can post my original mail to the list and also subsequent exchange I had with Evan L. regarding the proposal
[15:52:01] CorNouws Thalion72: yes, what is your idea on this?
[15:53:04] Thalion72 well ..my main objection was how all the certification stuff should be paid.
[15:53:39] CorNouws and mine is: how it should all be organized, which to some extend is the same
[15:53:55] CorNouws and can be started with a solid plan?
[15:54:01] Thalion72 the difference I see, is that the current petition does *not* request funding from the project
[15:54:29] CorNouws Indeed, that is OK
[15:54:29] CorNouws And I see the same great potential as the 2007 poposal
[15:54:29] CorNouws But ATM, it is not mature enough, IMHO, to be endorsed as such
[15:54:29] CorNouws and carry the OOo flag for the outer world
[15:54:47] CorNouws It can become, I hope it will
[15:55:35] Thalion72 CorNouws: at the other hand it is a Chicken-Egg-Problem .. you can hardly go on if you donotget the "blessing" of OOo
[15:55:41] jpmcc There's probably a minimum amount of funding they need to secxure to get the thing off the ground...
[15:56:04] jpmcc ...if they can secure that, then they should get our ok.
[15:56:06] Thalion72 but you will only get blessed if you first get something further
[15:56:18] CorNouws Thalion72: jpmcc: so that is an opening for a good direction, where we can help?
[15:56:49] jpmcc They say they have some sponsorship already?
[15:57:01] CorNouws jpmcc: Not precise
[15:57:08] Thalion72 CorNouws: I tnd to agree (I just read the Petition when our meeting started)
[15:57:09] louis_to I would suggest that the proposal be clarified and made more precise
[15:57:35] CorNouws louis_to: that is waht I asked many days ...
[15:57:41] Thalion72 louis_to: tome, the proposal itselfseems to be quite clear
[15:57:45] jpmcc They need to show they can raise enough to set up the company, have a bank account, etc...
[15:57:48] * louis_to notes that great minds tihink alike
[15:57:54] CorNouws jpmcc: when the cc endorses the idea, some government body is willing to pay
[15:58:31] louis_to CorNouws: we've already, back in 2007, endorsed in principle a version of this idea, minus fudning
[15:58:32] jpmcc OK, so let's see a draft business plan (sorry if I sound like a bank employee ;-)
[15:58:49] louis_to jpmcc: that is what is lacking, to me; the business plan
[15:59:04] louis_to because this is a business we are talking about
[15:59:33] jpmcc OK, let's go back with a positive response, but a challenge to come up with a business plan.
[15:59:35] louis_to in 2007 Evan was calling it Open Source Desktop Network, and it was more ambitious by a lot than now
[15:59:35] Thalion72 hmmm ... what would we like to see in the business plan?
[15:59:51] Thalion72 louis_to: no it was not (not to me)
[16:00:00] louis_to ideally details of sponsorship, funding
[16:00:04] CorNouws So we can ask Alexandro, Evan to make a business plan?
[16:00:15] louis_to CorNouws: yes
[16:00:36] CorNouws a business plan holds a shedule, income, spendings, estimated results (students, certificates, partners, ..
[16:00:37] Thalion72 the current petition claims to have a syllabus and most of the materials ready ..that was missing in 2007 - and afair thera was no clear plan how to get this
[16:00:41] louis_to Thalion72: Evan nuanced and made more precise the focus of the ambition
[16:00:45] jpmcc CorNouws: but let's be friendly
[16:00:55] CorNouws Thalion72: that claim is a bit overdone, IMnshO
[16:01:13] CorNouws jpmcc: Yes, we can ask for that plan, and help funding it?
[16:01:20] louis_to jpmcc: agreed. I think the idea has merit--obviously--but I thnk that there are a couple of risks
[16:01:44] louis_to 1 it lacks the details a business plan would offer, and I would like to understand the nature of the syllabus, etc., the collateral
[16:01:49] Thalion72 ok .. ask for the plan (and I'd like to know, where we are at the moment - means, what materials are already available)
[16:02:13] sophi louis_to: all is in the project, on issue or wiki
[16:02:16] louis_to 2. I'm uncertain how it will be sustained (part of the business plan) and how its governance will be established-
[16:02:32] CorNouws OK, I had quite some contact with Alexandro on this
[16:02:33] louis_to that is, who makes the decisions, ultimately? the company people? CC?
[16:02:37] louis_to that seems missing to me.
[16:02:39] sophi louis_to: governance team is on the wiki page
[16:02:43] CorNouws Shall I make contact and ask for
[16:02:52] CorNouws ...
[16:02:57] Thalion72 CorNouws: yes, please
[16:03:05] CorNouws 1. materials
[16:03:14] CorNouws 2. if they can make a business plan
[16:03:29] * louis_to guess evan's got one ready; he did last time :-)
[16:03:31] CorNouws 3. if it helps, if we give little support ($) for that?
[16:03:37] sophi bye all
[16:03:43] * CorNouws interested to see it
[16:03:43] louis_to bye, sophi
[16:03:46] *** sophi has quit IRC ("Leaving.")
[16:03:48] Thalion72 bye sophi
[16:03:50] Thalion72 :(
[16:03:54] CorNouws bye sophie :-)
[16:04:42] louis_to If it helkps, I'd suggest 250 CAD for the plan. But I would also like to to see details of the biz plan related to governance too
[16:05:08] louis_to eg, say we disagree with the endorsements?
[16:05:11] CorNouws jpmcc: is this friendly enough, in your opinion?
[16:05:23] louis_to this company is representing OOo, after all
[16:05:27] CorNouws louis_to: no, just need more info first
[16:05:35] louis_to CorNouws: okay.
[16:05:47] * louis_to for context, sends off the old proposal
[16:06:02] * louis_to notes the google group is still there, though dormant
[16:06:38] Thalion72 ok .. 2 AI's?
[16:07:11] CorNouws Thalion72: 2?
[16:07:13] Thalion72 louis_to tosent the old plan just as reminder what we had already done
[16:07:16] louis_to done
[16:07:30] Thalion72 CorNouws: to ask for business plan and existing materials
[16:07:48] louis_to CC decision was made in Barrcelona, where Thalion72 argued very persuasively
[16:07:49] louis_to :-)
[16:08:16] louis_to AI: CorNouws to ask as stated above
[16:08:24] CorNouws 2. continued: and suggest 250 CAD for the plan (and include wishes mentioned here)
[16:09:47] Thalion72 fine with me
[16:10:03] CorNouws I think it is indeed important.
[16:10:03] CorNouws The idea, potential is great.
[16:10:03] CorNouws But needs good organizing skills etc etc
[16:10:03] CorNouws So presenting what the cc asks, is a first step to prove the potential of success !
[16:10:12] louis_to do we have any other interventions?
[16:10:51] louis_to if not, then let's move on...
[16:10:59] CorNouws yes pls
[16:11:05] louis_to 4.1: Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
[16:11:05] louis_to 1. formalise the practise to delegate confirmation of Incubator project to project_leads@ and for native language projects to leads of NLC.
[16:11:28] louis_to I can take this on
[16:11:41] louis_to stx12 had a fine notion last session
[16:11:43] CorNouws Yes, that was taken from the last meeting
[16:11:49] louis_to ie, formalise current practice
[16:11:53] louis_to indeed; thanks
[16:12:06] CorNouws shouldn't we just vote??
[16:12:22] louis_to sure, but the language will do?
[16:12:34] stx12 louis_to: hm, we took the burden of the fomalities from the pleads to the CC in 2003 and now we are putting it back?
[16:12:48] louis_to no
[16:12:50] stx12 at least some sort of?
[16:12:56] louis_to as I understand it
[16:13:29] Thalion72 hmm .. didwe really took the burden?
[16:13:34] louis_to : to stipulate that the category leads of Incubator and NLC and other categories are delegated axiomatically by the CC to create and dsi-create projects in their categories
[16:13:45] louis_to that is the proposal I'd ask to vote on
[16:13:52] Thalion72 I know, the dicussion was brought up by my request at the last meeting
[16:14:21] louis_to amended : should an act be seen as counter to the bset interests of the Project by the CC, the CC reserves the right to act in the matter
[16:14:48] * Thalion72 abstains
[16:15:50] louis_to cimment?
[16:15:57] Thalion72 and others do not vote :)
[16:16:02] louis_to sigh
[16:16:10] louis_to basically, it's validating status quo
[16:16:20] CorNouws I vote +1 :-)
[16:16:27] louis_to while authorizing the CC directly to intervene as needed, per the new charter
[16:17:01] * louis_to falls asleep
[16:17:13] stx12 would the category leads delegate to all pleads or only those within their category?
[16:17:28] CorNouws louis_to: othere were faster than you ;-)
[16:17:45] jpmcc louis_to: zzzzzzz
[16:17:47] * louis_to wife just called
[16:17:47] * _Nesshof_ runs out of battery
[16:17:57] louis_to stx12; how are pleads relevant?
[16:18:39] Thalion72 btw ... I abstain, as I cannot find our "old" ruls how to setup projects, and advance from incubator to accepted
[16:18:48] louis_to the issue is that if a project is deemed to be nonactive, and iff all former participatns declare it to be dead, then the incubator or NLC lead can kill it
[16:19:24] Thalion72 (ahh .. just found them)
[16:19:48] louis_to http://www.openoffice.org/about_us/protocols_proposing.html#settingup
[16:20:02] stx12 oh, i misunderstood the proposal. power is delegated *to* the category leads and not delegated *by* them
[16:20:06] louis_to yes.
[16:20:14] louis_to hence the term "category leads"
[16:20:16] louis_to sorry
[16:20:25] louis_to the final language would be a little better
[16:21:04] stx12 then it only needs a revised text for the just mentioned text.
[16:21:19] louis_to yes
[16:21:20] stx12 as you say it is best practise...
[16:21:35] louis_to minimal effort practice=best
[16:21:42] paveljanik BTW: +1 for coordinator even with names (for the minutes ;-)
[16:21:49] louis_to thanks!
[16:21:59] louis_to woo-hoo
[16:22:01] CorNouws paveljanik: thanks :-)
[16:22:45] louis_to so, to the other matter at hand, as stated and nuanced, thie idea is to formalize what is done now but to grant the CC direct intervention authority should the need arise
[16:22:56] stx12 louis_to: if the project creation / removal within incubator / nlc needs clarification, then I would b ehappy to read revised doc and vote on it.
[16:23:21] louis_to give me a few minutes. And I can rather send it to the list
[16:23:32] stx12 i think we agree on the general idea
[16:23:45] Thalion72 louis_to: I'd even give you some days ;)
[16:23:53] stx12 about 12
[16:24:00] Thalion72 so that we can read before the next meeting and then vote on it
[16:24:58] louis_to proposal: The lead of Incubator and the two leads of the Native Language Confederation are delegated by the Community Council to create and dis-create projects in their respective categories as needed; the Community Council reserves the right to intervene in any act of creation or discreation as it sees fit.
[16:25:16] jpmcc dis-create?
[16:25:25] louis_to expunge?
[16:25:28] louis_to but theiy are not
[16:25:41] louis_to kill?
[16:25:43] louis_to mothball?
[16:25:45] louis_to undo?
[16:25:46] louis_to whatever
[16:25:46] jpmcc remove?
[16:25:48] Thalion72 terminate
[16:25:55] louis_to all those sound so drastic
[16:25:57] louis_to but the idea is good
[16:26:01] jpmcc ex-terminate (like the daleks ;-)
[16:26:05] louis_to :-)
[16:26:11] louis_to "remove" sounds best
[16:26:34] louis_to but let's vote?
[16:26:35] stx12 I don't think creation is done "as needed". there is a fine description of the steps.
[16:26:36] Thalion72 anihilate ? :)
[16:26:55] louis_to "as requested"
[16:26:59] Thalion72 but I second stx12
[16:26:59] jpmcc retire
[16:27:09] louis_to yeah, I like "retire"
[16:27:13] * stx12 would like to retire for today
[16:27:25] Thalion72 as we have some good rules for creation, we should have some for the opposit as well
[16:27:27] louis_to do we agree on "as requested" and "retire"?
[16:27:40] louis_to but we do not have to spell them out righ tnow
[16:27:54] jpmcc I agree to retire asap
[16:28:02] louis_to as we are voting only on the general delegation of authority
[16:28:05] Thalion72 louis_to: hmm ..ifyou are really calling for a vote ...
[16:28:19] louis_to a closure to this fairly minor issue
[16:28:25] CorNouws Thalion72: +1 ??
[16:28:26] Thalion72 no, we are voting on the proposal, as currenty written
[16:28:37] louis_to so we can work on the larger one of spelling out what is entailed by removal
[16:28:38] Thalion72 and tis will get a -1
[16:28:39] stx12 and we are asked to vote on the document change again?
[16:28:43] louis_to and retirement
[16:28:48] CorNouws Thalion72: Oops ;-)
[16:29:20] louis_to okay, I table this for next meeting and in the meanwihle suggest we work on the steps of retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
[16:29:36] louis_to AI: stx12, louis_to, Thalion72
[16:29:43] * CorNouws Sorry for joking on André, was not mentioned to take him not serious
[16:30:10] louis_to with louis_to to come up with initial draft, stx12 with steps for retirement/removal/ and Thalion72 to reivew and edit as needed
[16:30:22] Thalion72 CorNouws: no problem ;) ... I'tslate enough, so I don'ttake serious myself
[16:30:23] stx12 you may want to out you at the first position in the list of ai owners.
[16:30:43] louis_to stx12: you refer to me?
[16:30:48] stx12 sure ;-)
[16:31:07] louis_to hm. not sure what you mean, exactly
[16:31:22] CorNouws Three owners is no owner :-)
[16:31:43] CorNouws We know, Stefan, don 't we?
[16:31:44] louis_to okay, AI louis and to work with the others cited
[16:31:48] stx12 CorNouws: yes, but then it was spelled out
[16:32:02] louis_to and also others as wanted
[16:32:07] louis_to if no other comments?
[16:32:18] CorNouws not from me
[16:32:19] louis_to I move we adjourn tonight's meeting, then
[16:32:33] CorNouws shall I do AI's ?
[16:32:42] louis_to yes, please!
[16:32:46] CorNouws someone interested in minutes?
[16:32:48] * louis_to is ever so thankful!!
[16:33:00] CorNouws ( I won't do those, btw ;-) )
[16:33:04] louis_to I can send off iRC log
[16:33:05] Thalion72 interested in reading or doingminutes? ;)
[16:33:15] CorNouws louis_to: your'e welcome
[16:33:20] CorNouws doing, of course
[16:33:34] CorNouws But I include "decided"on the wiki
[16:33:48] * Thalion72 is not really interested but will do at the weekend
[16:34:09] *** jpmcc has quit IRC ("Bye....")
[16:34:09] louis_to Thanks!
[16:34:18] CorNouws Thalion72: maybe look at the wiki first, the sun might be waiting for you diring the weekend
[16:34:36] louis_to if no objections, I call meeting adjourned
</pre>

Community Council Log 20090528

2009-05-29T22:16:45Z

LouisSuarez: New page: == IRC Log of Community Council Meeting 2009-05-28 == '''Attendees''' * Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_) * Cor Nouws (CorNouws) * André Schnabel (Thalion72) * Pavel Janik (paveljanik) * L...

== IRC Log of Community Council Meeting 2009-05-28 ==

'''Attendees'''

* Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_)
* Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
* André Schnabel (Thalion72)
* Pavel Janik (paveljanik)
* Louis Suárez-Potts (louis_to)
* Stefan Taxhet (stx12)
* Sophie Gautier, John McCreesh

**Absent: * Matthias Huetsch (mhu)

<pre>

[14:34:11] louis_to shall we start?
[14:34:11] louis_to http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/The_OpenOffice.org_Community_Council_Agenda
[14:34:15] louis_to that's the link for agenda
[14:37:09] louis_to ping?
[14:37:17] jpmcc pong
[14:37:28] _Nesshof_ no more timeout
[14:37:28] louis_to hi john; glad you could make it
[14:37:36] stx12 hi all
[14:37:43] louis_to hi stx12
[14:37:46] CorNouws Agenda looks OK to me ;-)
[14:37:52] louis_to lol
[14:38:21] CorNouws wow: also for the rest of us?
[14:38:31] CorNouws wow = with other words ;-)
[14:38:37] louis_to brb
[14:38:37] sophi CorNouws: ok for me
[14:38:40] Thalion72 yes ... I would have commented, if soemthing was not ok ;)
[14:39:42] CorNouws We're running out of time. I popose to start with #2
[14:40:02] Thalion72 yes ..please
[14:40:49] louis_to Trademark?
[14:40:54] louis_to or action items?
[14:41:00] Thalion72 action Items
[14:41:13] louis_to okay, let's start; meeting has commenced
[14:41:26] louis_to Action items - from previous meeting(s)
[14:41:26] louis_to 1. Budget
[14:41:26] louis_to 1. Matthias, André and Cor agreed on a meeting regarding budget issues for next monday.
[14:41:43] CorNouws Yes, I have a report
[14:41:43] louis_to that's 2.1, budget...
[14:42:02] louis_to CorNouws: and?
[14:42:14] CorNouws About the first years
[14:42:30] CorNouws In the first years, though there were spendings, there was no real focus on budget and accounting, nor on promoting the spending for projects.
[14:42:30] CorNouws Also especially in the last few years more is donated.
[14:42:47] CorNouws From this first period roughly some 400 K will be left. But this is uncertain, since still taxes have to be paid.
[14:42:47] CorNouws Also, a significant amount of the money in the accounts is earmarked
[14:43:05] CorNouws This has to be fully clear first.
[14:43:12] CorNouws And also we have a better idea on how we can promote the spending - at least that is what we tried last year
[14:43:23] CorNouws Then the idea is to come up with is more structured budget planning for the next years.
[14:44:01] CorNouws That is more or less what I learned of the meeting.
[14:44:12] CorNouws André, OK?
[14:44:31] _Nesshof_ what should the "more structured" look like ?
[14:45:12] CorNouws _Nesshof_: With knowledge about what we more or less can expect and
[14:45:29] CorNouws (as income) and what people might ask
[14:45:30] Thalion72 to me yes: myshort summary: TeamOOo is still waiting for answer form the tax office .. until this has been received, the current budget is the "best and most solid estimation" we have
[14:46:15] stx12 ... and we can continue to work with...
[14:46:18] louis_to is there any idea when the tax office will act?
[14:46:39] CorNouws louis_to: as soon as they have info // ;-)
[14:46:46] paveljanik I have to leave now for an hour or so, sorry
[14:46:50] _Nesshof_ our tax attorney has sent the files to the tax office, ... still waiting for reaction
[14:46:54] louis_to bye...
[14:47:04] Thalion72 bye pavel
[14:47:04] stx12 bye pavel
[14:47:37] _Nesshof_ but independently from that, we're still seem not be able to spend the money we approved for this year
[14:47:38] louis_to CorNouws, others; we can estimate budget holding for the coming, actual year
[14:47:38] CorNouws _Nesshof_: Ah, good. you might consider to ping them
[14:47:54] CorNouws Yes, same as past is Matthias idea
[14:47:55] louis_to _Nesshof_: we could spend more easily enough
[14:47:59] CorNouws and I support that
[14:48:31] louis_to for instance, there are trips I've declined b/c the belief that my request qould be declined; and marketing could be allocated more funds altogether
[14:48:41] CorNouws So, AFAIAC, everything is clear for this moment
[14:48:47] stx12 it doesn't seem to be easy - at least that's my experienc efrom last year
[14:49:37] louis_to not easy to spend money?
[14:49:40] Thalion72 louis_to: start to spend your budget ...
[14:49:42] louis_to I disagree
[14:49:43] CorNouws louis_to: that is why we agreed few months agoo that we should get an estimate of possible requests / spendings ..
[14:49:53] louis_to Thalion72: I am already, but there are some areas that are in the gray zone
[14:49:56] louis_to eg, travel
[14:50:16] Thalion72 louis_to: as budget holder it is up to *you* what to spend the money for
[14:50:18] louis_to I know, and the community has not really responded at all. last time Thalion72 suggested just do it
[14:50:34] louis_to Thalion72: there are still guidelines
[14:50:48] louis_to which I llike to respect
[14:50:49] Thalion72 sorry, but I did notagree on the bdget procedures, just to have the budeget holder now asking the councile (instead of direct requests)
[14:51:02] louis_to okay, anyway, it's a side issue.
[14:51:04] stx12 louis_to: just discuss with your advisors and you'll get the feedback whether gray is white or black
[14:51:13] louis_to the point is to come up with ... as stx12 suggests
[14:51:37] louis_to so, back to CorNouws' report
[14:52:37] CorNouws That is finished.
[14:52:42] Thalion72 I think, the report is complete
[14:52:44] louis_to okay, thanks
[14:52:58] louis_to #2.2: me
[14:53:18] louis_to I pinged the community, alexandro came up with ideas, but that was it
[14:53:29] louis_to I'll go ahead with proposal and post it to a wiki
[14:53:46] louis_to and make strong suggestions as to participation but it's up to the developer/contributor, of course.
[14:53:52] CorNouws did you ask the marcon list?
[14:53:52] louis_to so, a work in progress
[14:53:59] louis_to No.
[14:54:01] louis_to thanks for hint
[14:54:15] CorNouws Yes, e see spendings in Europe
[14:54:22] louis_to many on marcon are project leads of nlc and on project leads
[14:54:26] CorNouws which is fine, but only small part of the world
[14:54:37] *** AN Unknown command
[14:54:44] louis_to an important part :-)
[14:55:10] CorNouws and was there no response on dev@nlc?
[14:55:13] louis_to AI: louis use marcon list and post to wiki list of events selected for importance to the community and to OOo's goals
[14:55:39] louis_to I don't think I used nlc, this time--done it before and got nothing really--just project leads and direct queries
[14:56:04] louis_to I think I will get replies once I say, "this is the list" agree or disagree and add if you want
[14:56:14] louis_to Shall we move on to 2.2?
[14:56:55] Thalion72 yes
[14:57:37] CorNouws pls
[14:57:38] louis_to 2.2.1: update after renewed discussion
[14:57:52] louis_to There is no designated updater..
[14:57:59] louis_to sophie? andre? stefan?
[14:58:13] Thalion72 hmm .. discussion has been renewed (somehow)
[14:58:27] louis_to Thalion72: how so?
[14:59:04] Thalion72 Bernhard and I posted new drafts for a policy .. but we got not that much comments
[14:59:09] * _Nesshof_ has not yet fully understood the direction of the renewal, need some more days to dive into discussion again
[14:59:34] CorNouws I read the new drafts, and like them
[14:59:37] louis_to Can we put a closure date on the discussions?
[14:59:55] Thalion72 _Nesshof_: the renewal ismostly about "Make it short, liberate"
[14:59:57] * louis_to note that every debate must have closure; called cloture
[15:00:36] stx12 that makes only sense if there is an actionable outcome...
[15:00:42] CorNouws Thalion72: one thing I would like - if possible ..
[15:00:43] Thalion72 louis_to: we can do so ...the newdrafts are supposed to be very short but refere to soe FAQ
[15:01:02] louis_to then let's
[15:01:06] Thalion72 so in theroy we can start witha short policy and enhance the FAQ
[15:01:27] louis_to precisely
[15:01:33] * louis_to that's what I've wanted....
[15:01:35] Thalion72 CorNouws: what is the thing?
[15:02:04] CorNouws a list of disputes that have been addressed by the new drafts, so what problems have been solved by the new drafts
[15:02:21] CorNouws but maybe that question is superfluous
[15:02:38] CorNouws since people will respond in the next round of discussion?
[15:02:42] louis_to CorNouws: well, having a change record is useful
[15:02:50] Thalion72 uhh .. I don'T think, that the new drafst *solve* the previous disputes .. they more or less try to get around it
[15:02:57] louis_to but inevitably there will still be repeition
[15:03:12] louis_to and "solving" is going to be continual negotiation
[15:03:17] Thalion72 an I think, only Bernhard read all the disputes (I mustconfess I didn't)
[15:03:30] CorNouws Thalion72: getting around also is a sort of solving, IMHO
[15:03:41] sophi Thalion72: I did also :)
[15:04:35] Thalion72 CorNouws: to me, the main thing is, that almostall of the disputes came up, when we put restrictions on the *software*
[15:05:06] Thalion72 but nobody could exactly tell for what reason we like to put restrictions on the software
[15:05:23] CorNouws OK ...
[15:05:26] CorNouws So what we can propose now:
[15:05:26] CorNouws That all cc members have a week to respond, if they like
[15:05:26] CorNouws and that then the poposal is brought to discuss@
[15:05:26] CorNouws ???
[15:05:27] Thalion72 (Only reason was named by Charles)
[15:05:34] louis_to CorNouws: I would agree
[15:05:47] louis_to that we have that deadline, though a week is rather harsh
[15:06:01] louis_to and would suggest rather mid-June
[15:06:01] CorNouws Thalion72: And that was not his reason, but one he guessed others might have, IIRC?
[15:06:06] Thalion72 CorNouws: I'm fine with this .. I'd like o ping REne E. and Caolan for comments
[15:06:29] CorNouws louis_to: a week short? It's only one A4
[15:06:35] Thalion72 :)
[15:06:40] CorNouws and we work on it already half a year or so
[15:06:56] CorNouws And the longer, the less responsive some become
[15:07:11] CorNouws and the cc-coordinators task must not be too heavy ;-)
[15:07:28] Thalion72 and we would go to discuss@ anyway .. so we need to agree to the genaral idea only atm
[15:08:13] CorNouws Only reason to do longer than a week - maybe - if someone form the cc is on vacation ??
[15:08:29] louis_to CorNouws: precisely
[15:08:36] louis_to Matthias is on holiday
[15:08:36] jpmcc who are we missing tonight?
[15:08:43] louis_to mhu
[15:08:58] CorNouws returning when?
[15:09:13] louis_to I cannot recall
[15:09:16] stx12 iirc in 3 weeks
[15:09:52] Thalion72 would be good to have a deputy ;)
[15:10:22] CorNouws a bit long, afaiac ;-) also cause Matthias can join discuss@, which he would not mind
[15:10:46] louis_to okay; shall we move ahead and declare then to finalize in 2 weeks' time?
[15:11:05] louis_to that misses MHU, but I fear others will head off to holiday land soon
[15:11:09] louis_to summer is nearly here....
[15:11:15] Thalion72 likely
[15:11:15] CorNouws yip
[15:11:19] jpmcc +1
[15:11:25] louis_to then let's set the deadline for 2 weeks hence
[15:11:44] louis_to that''s 11 June
[15:11:50] Thalion72 ok ...
[15:12:00] louis_to by which time the available CC members must have read and commented on the proposal(s)
[15:12:29] louis_to any objections?
[15:12:37] jpmcc No
[15:12:39] CorNouws no
[15:12:49] Thalion72 no objections
[15:13:02] louis_to AI to all here, to comment on trademark proposals by 11 June
[15:13:13] louis_to let's move on to 2.3.1: elections
[15:13:17] louis_to status update?
[15:13:44] stx12 i don't think we should leave mhu (and pavel?) out of the game. but who is going to send the proposal to cc members? are all involved in the tm discussion?
[15:13:45] Thalion72 Ineed to excuse for the delay :(
[15:14:08] louis_to stx12: all are subscribed
[15:14:15] louis_to and no, we ought not to leave them out
[15:14:45] louis_to but we are not deciding on the actual trademark policy here as much as urging all cc members to review the proposal with the aim of finalizing
[15:14:57] Thalion72 on elections:I've been almost offline for the lasttwo weeks. SO I didnotprepare andsend the announcement
[15:14:59] louis_to but finalization probably won't occur for at least a week after reading of the text
[15:15:14] stx12 louis_to: which is fine...
[15:15:57] louis_to Thalion72: would you want John or me to help with the announcement?
[15:16:09] louis_to (sorry john; other professional speaker of the language)
[15:16:35] Thalion72 louis_to: yes, would be good. I'm able to work on this on Saturday
[15:16:57] Thalion72 so we should be able to send the annoucement on Monday or Tuesday
[15:16:59] louis_to please send it to me or to the list
[15:17:03] louis_to Yes.
[15:17:09] Thalion72 ok .. I'll send on Saturday
[15:17:21] louis_to thanks
[15:17:47] louis_to AI: Thalion72 to send to louis (and jpmcc) proposal for elections announcement for editing, writing, etc.
[15:17:51] louis_to this Saturday
[15:18:00] louis_to Shall we move on to 2.4?
[15:18:00] Thalion72 yes :)
[15:18:12] Thalion72 +1
[15:18:13] louis_to 2.4.1: Internship: update?
[15:19:02] CorNouws yes
[15:19:26] CorNouws Stefan, I, mba, jsc, Florian had some contact via mail
[15:19:31] stx12 a really update - we just revived the rough ruleset
[15:19:42] stx12 a really short update - we just revived the rough ruleset
[15:19:43] louis_to rough ruleset from?
[15:19:57] louis_to gsoc? or community innovation program?
[15:19:59] stx12 ... for OOo intership
[15:20:06] louis_to okay.
[15:20:13] louis_to stx12: are you working with education program at all?
[15:20:20] louis_to ... or they with you?
[15:20:30] stx12 not yet
[15:20:34] louis_to okay
[15:20:45] CorNouws good to invite them for mentorships, IMO
[15:21:05] * louis_to thinks they need mentors to pick up the project
[15:21:11] stx12 it's planned to involve pleads and mentoring@ooo
[15:21:43] * louis_to suggests that the education project be utilzed as a reource, if possible, to coordinate educational activity
[15:21:46] _Nesshof_ stx12: what is the intended time frame for that ?
[15:21:48] stx12 then then let me ask for feedback from budget holder here:
[15:21:49] louis_to but this is not quite in that domain
[15:22:17] stx12 what are you going to contribute? how muich would you give a paricipant for sucess?
[15:22:32] louis_to can we match google?
[15:22:58] stx12 GSoC gives 4500 USD to students plus 500 to the organization per slot
[15:23:22] CorNouws So yes, we can, only have to set alimit to the # of participants
[15:23:37] louis_to right
[15:23:46] louis_to then I'd say let's at least match them :-)
[15:23:48] stx12 to 3. 5. 10?
[15:23:57] louis_to and set a limit to 5 this time around
[15:24:18] louis_to with a program/contest to get more money and mentors for more next year
[15:24:21] CorNouws 5 K or 5 participants
[15:24:30] louis_to 5K for 5 each
[15:24:38] louis_to total then 25K
[15:24:50] stx12 to match we need only 4500; from which budgets are the 5*4500 URSD coming?
[15:24:51] CorNouws Then I am for more
[15:25:09] louis_to I can donate from my bucket
[15:25:16] _Nesshof_ and mine
[15:25:23] louis_to but not all, of course
[15:25:25] stx12 other's can to ;-)
[15:25:39] * stx12 is waiting for concrete numbers
[15:25:52] louis_to Shall we discuss the division onl list?
[15:25:52] louis_to I need to find out precisley how much I can donate
[15:26:03] louis_to adn I imagine _Nesshof_ must, too
[15:26:21] louis_to and you can put a deadline on this, with issue tracker, even :-)
[15:26:29] stx12 so, we are committed to come up with 30K EUR, ok?
[15:26:38] louis_to +1
[15:26:47] _Nesshof_ stx12: I thought 25k ?
[15:26:49] CorNouws We have some fine general reserves
[15:26:49] CorNouws why not add an extra 15 K out of there?
[15:27:02] stx12 _Nesshof_: and cor said "more"
[15:27:30] * _Nesshof_ is fine with 30k, will offer 10k
[15:27:30] stx12 _Nesshof_: you don't have to spend more than 20K
[15:27:31] louis_to CorNouws I'd say let's hold off as we have other events, etc. related to something like this
[15:27:45] louis_to eg, travel for the winners to OOoCon
[15:27:46] _Nesshof_ stx12: where can the ruleset reviewed ?
[15:28:00] CorNouws I don't know of other events
[15:28:06] CorNouws only rumors
[15:28:11] CorNouws this is action
[15:28:16] CorNouws and development
[15:28:21] CorNouws good to spend on, IMO
[15:28:22] louis_to I don't like foreclosing opotions
[15:28:34] louis_to the amount is already quite generous, don't you think?
[15:28:41] louis_to I agree it's good to spend
[15:28:47] louis_to but I prefer to start prudently
[15:28:48] CorNouws also: we under-spend dramatically last year
[15:28:57] louis_to CorNouws: I know
[15:29:06] stx12 louis_to: which? the total or the amount for each slot?
[15:29:07] louis_to and dislike having money in the pocket
[15:29:13] CorNouws so what if we get 8 good applications?
[15:29:17] louis_to amount/each
[15:29:23] louis_to 5k is more than google
[15:29:30] CorNouws turn of 3 ceause lacj of money - which we do not have - ??
[15:29:43] louis_to CorNouws: we can add more, if we have mentors; but the per student I think should be at 5K
[15:29:59] CorNouws louis_to: yes, of course
[15:30:02] louis_to no: to clarify> I think we should limit payment to students to 5K
[15:30:07] CorNouws I am talking about the total budget
[15:30:10] louis_to and if there are lots of great students and we have mentors, we can add
[15:30:12] louis_to I wasn
[15:30:14] CorNouws thius the total # of participants
[15:30:17] louis_to wasn't
[15:30:36] louis_to let's start at 5; if we have both students and mentors, we can add, adn the budget will be there for us
[15:30:41] CorNouws louis_to: :-)
[15:30:42] louis_to yes?
[15:31:02] stx12 thanks; at least we have a feeling for the range we can work with
[15:31:11] CorNouws what is the total budget suggested, so the # of participants we can have?
[15:31:57] louis_to I think we can estimate by looking at mentors available?
[15:32:41] CorNouws louis_to: I don't understand that logic... for how many participants is a mentor good ?
[15:34:14] stx12 1 menttor to 1 participant
[15:34:18] CorNouws So, when we come up with 15 mentors, we make free 75 K ?
[15:34:33] * CorNouws expeted that answer ;-)
[15:35:05] louis_to :-)
[15:35:13] louis_to I WISH we could have that many
[15:35:26] louis_to heck, I'd donate money to Team OOo again, if we could
[15:35:45] stx12 but lt's not planned to pay mentors
[15:35:46] louis_to but it's very hard getting >5
[15:36:01] louis_to no, of course not; but mentors are scarce
[15:36:32] * louis_to does not mean to bribe them. rather money goes to student only
[15:36:58] louis_to so, are we close to coming to a kind of agreement on the proposal?
[15:37:15] louis_to regarding funding and some limits, as well as action item for stx12--?
[15:37:20] CorNouws Sort of, but still
[15:37:20] CorNouws So if we have three mentors, you expect me to spend a lot of time in promoting and organizing for 3 participants?
[15:37:20] CorNouws And do you want to do that? NOt so efficient, I think
[15:37:38] CorNouws I like ambitions:
[15:37:47] louis_to CorNouws: this is but one element. We also have education program, which has a different ambition
[15:38:01] louis_to the point of this one is efficacy
[15:38:04] CorNouws sya: we ant to spent xxx, so that we can help xxx participants
[15:38:28] CorNouws (louis_to: Edication is not ripe, mature, IMO)
[15:38:29] louis_to and the mentor/student relationship almost guarantees that the student will participate actively in the project after the relationship has ended
[15:38:48] louis_to CorNouws: nope, it is not. but iwe can talk more on this later. it is growing very fast
[15:40:02] CorNouws I do not understand that education has to do financially with our Internship program
[15:40:14] louis_to proposal: That stx12 estimate number of mentors and thus number of students, and thus $, pegging each student at 5K with an upper limit of total expenditure at 35k, unless extraordinary circumstances warrant; and that monies come from Louis's budent, Martin's and ...?
[15:40:16] CorNouws but hey, we can finish financial detaisl next two weeks ...
[15:40:38] louis_to CorNouws: it doesn't ; that's why I said it is approaching this with a different ambition
[15:40:43] stx12 i will propose 7 slot a 4K EUR
[15:40:57] louis_to 4K euro is a lot of USD
[15:41:00] louis_to :-)
[15:41:05] louis_to and even more CAD
[15:41:08] * stx12 will do so next meeting ;-)
[15:41:12] louis_to (roughly 1:1.77)
[15:41:20] louis_to thanks
[15:41:49] louis_to AI: Stefan to suggest the budget for the internship program as suggested by the rproposal
[15:41:53] CorNouws as extra budget I suggest the genreral reserves
[15:42:00] CorNouws for the rest for now ... +1
[15:42:59] louis_to Any objections to the proposal modulo stx12's addendum of 4K?
[15:43:10] jpmcc No
[15:43:11] Thalion72 no objections
[15:43:15] sophi no
[15:43:44] louis_to nor from me
[15:43:51] louis_to if no objections, let's move on
[15:44:13] louis_to 2.5: L10n infrastructure
[15:44:23] louis_to Stefan, André, Cor: continue on http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839
[15:44:34] louis_to Do we have updates?
[15:44:36] stx12 no update - at least from me
[15:44:41] Thalion72 no update
[15:44:43] CorNouws Three owners :-)
[15:44:47] louis_to :--)
[15:44:56] louis_to then let's move on
[15:45:00] louis_to 2.6:
[15:45:06] louis_to 2.6.1, I mean
[15:45:14] louis_to Cor: add some content, then ping Louis to mail project leads
[15:45:15] CorNouws OK
[15:45:26] CorNouws added content today
[15:45:27] louis_to I'm happy to work with pleads...
[15:45:28] louis_to ah
[15:45:32] louis_to so, ping me :-_
[15:45:53] CorNouws OK, but first I want to sleep a night or two over the current state
[15:45:57] louis_to Update to 2.6.1: CorNouws added content and must now ping louis to engage the preoject leads
[15:46:02] louis_to no problem
[15:46:05] CorNouws if you understand what I mean
[15:46:09] CorNouws OK you do
[15:46:14] louis_to yes, of course
[15:46:24] louis_to moving on...
[15:46:46] louis_to 2.7.: proposal council coordinator
[15:46:46] louis_to 1. Cor: ask votes of members not present at the meeting
[15:46:53] louis_to update?
[15:47:00] CorNouws We only miss a vote from pavel on the latest post
[15:47:09] CorNouws but he did respond to aprevious one
[15:47:13] CorNouws positively
[15:47:20] CorNouws is he already returned here?
[15:47:27] louis_to negative
[15:47:37] louis_to oh, sorry, I missed him
[15:47:52] louis_to his alias is here, but is he?
[15:48:05] CorNouws " <AUTO-REPLY> : I'm busy"
[15:48:12] louis_to be that as it may, if he shows up before end of this meeting, he can vote on the issue
[15:48:15] CorNouws which does not surprise me ;-)
[15:48:25] louis_to I thus suggest we move on to 3.0: certification
[15:48:30] CorNouws OK
[15:48:38] louis_to OpenOffice.org Certification
[15:48:38] louis_to 1. Review the petition for endorsement.
[15:48:48] louis_to http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education/Certification/Petition
[15:48:58] louis_to have all present reviewed it already?
[15:49:07] Thalion72 yes
[15:49:14] louis_to .. and do you all find it a llittle familliar?
[15:49:22] louis_to take your mind back to April 2007
[15:49:54] * stx12 needs help
[15:49:57] louis_to when I submitted something very simillar, but with more reliance on and engagement with vendors, to the CC offlist
[15:50:55] louis_to it's otherwise essentially the same: to endorse the establishment of a body that would ultimately certify companies and others in the provisioning of support-related material
[15:50:56] louis_to for OOO
[15:51:09] Thalion72 louis_to: I remember ..andI still have the same objections ;)
[15:51:37] * stx12 needs help again - from Thalion72
[15:51:38] louis_to others? I can post my original mail to the list and also subsequent exchange I had with Evan L. regarding the proposal
[15:52:01] CorNouws Thalion72: yes, what is your idea on this?
[15:53:04] Thalion72 well ..my main objection was how all the certification stuff should be paid.
[15:53:39] CorNouws and mine is: how it should all be organized, which to some extend is the same
[15:53:55] CorNouws and can be started with a solid plan?
[15:54:01] Thalion72 the difference I see, is that the current petition does *not* request funding from the project
[15:54:29] CorNouws Indeed, that is OK
[15:54:29] CorNouws And I see the same great potential as the 2007 poposal
[15:54:29] CorNouws But ATM, it is not mature enough, IMHO, to be endorsed as such
[15:54:29] CorNouws and carry the OOo flag for the outer world
[15:54:47] CorNouws It can become, I hope it will
[15:55:35] Thalion72 CorNouws: at the other hand it is a Chicken-Egg-Problem .. you can hardly go on if you donotget the "blessing" of OOo
[15:55:41] jpmcc There's probably a minimum amount of funding they need to secxure to get the thing off the ground...
[15:56:04] jpmcc ...if they can secure that, then they should get our ok.
[15:56:06] Thalion72 but you will only get blessed if you first get something further
[15:56:18] CorNouws Thalion72: jpmcc: so that is an opening for a good direction, where we can help?
[15:56:49] jpmcc They say they have some sponsorship already?
[15:57:01] CorNouws jpmcc: Not precise
[15:57:08] Thalion72 CorNouws: I tnd to agree (I just read the Petition when our meeting started)
[15:57:09] louis_to I would suggest that the proposal be clarified and made more precise
[15:57:35] CorNouws louis_to: that is waht I asked many days ...
[15:57:41] Thalion72 louis_to: tome, the proposal itselfseems to be quite clear
[15:57:45] jpmcc They need to show they can raise enough to set up the company, have a bank account, etc...
[15:57:48] * louis_to notes that great minds tihink alike
[15:57:54] CorNouws jpmcc: when the cc endorses the idea, some government body is willing to pay
[15:58:31] louis_to CorNouws: we've already, back in 2007, endorsed in principle a version of this idea, minus fudning
[15:58:32] jpmcc OK, so let's see a draft business plan (sorry if I sound like a bank employee ;-)
[15:58:49] louis_to jpmcc: that is what is lacking, to me; the business plan
[15:59:04] louis_to because this is a business we are talking about
[15:59:33] jpmcc OK, let's go back with a positive response, but a challenge to come up with a business plan.
[15:59:35] louis_to in 2007 Evan was calling it Open Source Desktop Network, and it was more ambitious by a lot than now
[15:59:35] Thalion72 hmmm ... what would we like to see in the business plan?
[15:59:51] Thalion72 louis_to: no it was not (not to me)
[16:00:00] louis_to ideally details of sponsorship, funding
[16:00:04] CorNouws So we can ask Alexandro, Evan to make a business plan?
[16:00:15] louis_to CorNouws: yes
[16:00:36] CorNouws a business plan holds a shedule, income, spendings, estimated results (students, certificates, partners, ..
[16:00:37] Thalion72 the current petition claims to have a syllabus and most of the materials ready ..that was missing in 2007 - and afair thera was no clear plan how to get this
[16:00:41] louis_to Thalion72: Evan nuanced and made more precise the focus of the ambition
[16:00:45] jpmcc CorNouws: but let's be friendly
[16:00:55] CorNouws Thalion72: that claim is a bit overdone, IMnshO
[16:01:13] CorNouws jpmcc: Yes, we can ask for that plan, and help funding it?
[16:01:20] louis_to jpmcc: agreed. I think the idea has merit--obviously--but I thnk that there are a couple of risks
[16:01:44] louis_to 1 it lacks the details a business plan would offer, and I would like to understand the nature of the syllabus, etc., the collateral
[16:01:49] Thalion72 ok .. ask for the plan (and I'd like to know, where we are at the moment - means, what materials are already available)
[16:02:13] sophi louis_to: all is in the project, on issue or wiki
[16:02:16] louis_to 2. I'm uncertain how it will be sustained (part of the business plan) and how its governance will be established-
[16:02:32] CorNouws OK, I had quite some contact with Alexandro on this
[16:02:33] louis_to that is, who makes the decisions, ultimately? the company people? CC?
[16:02:37] louis_to that seems missing to me.
[16:02:39] sophi louis_to: governance team is on the wiki page
[16:02:43] CorNouws Shall I make contact and ask for
[16:02:52] CorNouws ...
[16:02:57] Thalion72 CorNouws: yes, please
[16:03:05] CorNouws 1. materials
[16:03:14] CorNouws 2. if they can make a business plan
[16:03:29] * louis_to guess evan's got one ready; he did last time :-)
[16:03:31] CorNouws 3. if it helps, if we give little support ($) for that?
[16:03:37] sophi bye all
[16:03:43] * CorNouws interested to see it
[16:03:43] louis_to bye, sophi
[16:03:46] *** sophi has quit IRC ("Leaving.")
[16:03:48] Thalion72 bye sophi
[16:03:50] Thalion72 :(
[16:03:54] CorNouws bye sophie :-)
[16:04:42] louis_to If it helkps, I'd suggest 250 CAD for the plan. But I would also like to to see details of the biz plan related to governance too
[16:05:08] louis_to eg, say we disagree with the endorsements?
[16:05:11] CorNouws jpmcc: is this friendly enough, in your opinion?
[16:05:23] louis_to this company is representing OOo, after all
[16:05:27] CorNouws louis_to: no, just need more info first
[16:05:35] louis_to CorNouws: okay.
[16:05:47] * louis_to for context, sends off the old proposal
[16:06:02] * louis_to notes the google group is still there, though dormant
[16:06:38] Thalion72 ok .. 2 AI's?
[16:07:11] CorNouws Thalion72: 2?
[16:07:13] Thalion72 louis_to tosent the old plan just as reminder what we had already done
[16:07:16] louis_to done
[16:07:30] Thalion72 CorNouws: to ask for business plan and existing materials
[16:07:48] louis_to CC decision was made in Barrcelona, where Thalion72 argued very persuasively
[16:07:49] louis_to :-)
[16:08:16] louis_to AI: CorNouws to ask as stated above
[16:08:24] CorNouws 2. continued: and suggest 250 CAD for the plan (and include wishes mentioned here)
[16:09:47] Thalion72 fine with me
[16:10:03] CorNouws I think it is indeed important.
[16:10:03] CorNouws The idea, potential is great.
[16:10:03] CorNouws But needs good organizing skills etc etc
[16:10:03] CorNouws So presenting what the cc asks, is a first step to prove the potential of success !
[16:10:12] louis_to do we have any other interventions?
[16:10:51] louis_to if not, then let's move on...
[16:10:59] CorNouws yes pls
[16:11:05] louis_to 4.1: Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
[16:11:05] louis_to 1. formalise the practise to delegate confirmation of Incubator project to project_leads@ and for native language projects to leads of NLC.
[16:11:28] louis_to I can take this on
[16:11:41] louis_to stx12 had a fine notion last session
[16:11:43] CorNouws Yes, that was taken from the last meeting
[16:11:49] louis_to ie, formalise current practice
[16:11:53] louis_to indeed; thanks
[16:12:06] CorNouws shouldn't we just vote??
[16:12:22] louis_to sure, but the language will do?
[16:12:34] stx12 louis_to: hm, we took the burden of the fomalities from the pleads to the CC in 2003 and now we are putting it back?
[16:12:48] louis_to no
[16:12:50] stx12 at least some sort of?
[16:12:56] louis_to as I understand it
[16:13:29] Thalion72 hmm .. didwe really took the burden?
[16:13:34] louis_to : to stipulate that the category leads of Incubator and NLC and other categories are delegated axiomatically by the CC to create and dsi-create projects in their categories
[16:13:45] louis_to that is the proposal I'd ask to vote on
[16:13:52] Thalion72 I know, the dicussion was brought up by my request at the last meeting
[16:14:21] louis_to amended : should an act be seen as counter to the bset interests of the Project by the CC, the CC reserves the right to act in the matter
[16:14:48] * Thalion72 abstains
[16:15:50] louis_to cimment?
[16:15:57] Thalion72 and others do not vote :)
[16:16:02] louis_to sigh
[16:16:10] louis_to basically, it's validating status quo
[16:16:20] CorNouws I vote +1 :-)
[16:16:27] louis_to while authorizing the CC directly to intervene as needed, per the new charter
[16:17:01] * louis_to falls asleep
[16:17:13] stx12 would the category leads delegate to all pleads or only those within their category?
[16:17:28] CorNouws louis_to: othere were faster than you ;-)
[16:17:45] jpmcc louis_to: zzzzzzz
[16:17:47] * louis_to wife just called
[16:17:47] * _Nesshof_ runs out of battery
[16:17:57] louis_to stx12; how are pleads relevant?
[16:18:39] Thalion72 btw ... I abstain, as I cannot find our "old" ruls how to setup projects, and advance from incubator to accepted
[16:18:48] louis_to the issue is that if a project is deemed to be nonactive, and iff all former participatns declare it to be dead, then the incubator or NLC lead can kill it
[16:19:24] Thalion72 (ahh .. just found them)
[16:19:48] louis_to http://www.openoffice.org/about_us/protocols_proposing.html#settingup
[16:20:02] stx12 oh, i misunderstood the proposal. power is delegated *to* the category leads and not delegated *by* them
[16:20:06] louis_to yes.
[16:20:14] louis_to hence the term "category leads"
[16:20:16] louis_to sorry
[16:20:25] louis_to the final language would be a little better
[16:21:04] stx12 then it only needs a revised text for the just mentioned text.
[16:21:19] louis_to yes
[16:21:20] stx12 as you say it is best practise...
[16:21:35] louis_to minimal effort practice=best
[16:21:42] paveljanik BTW: +1 for coordinator even with names (for the minutes ;-)
[16:21:49] louis_to thanks!
[16:21:59] louis_to woo-hoo
[16:22:01] CorNouws paveljanik: thanks :-)
[16:22:45] louis_to so, to the other matter at hand, as stated and nuanced, thie idea is to formalize what is done now but to grant the CC direct intervention authority should the need arise
[16:22:56] stx12 louis_to: if the project creation / removal within incubator / nlc needs clarification, then I would b ehappy to read revised doc and vote on it.
[16:23:21] louis_to give me a few minutes. And I can rather send it to the list
[16:23:32] stx12 i think we agree on the general idea
[16:23:45] Thalion72 louis_to: I'd even give you some days ;)
[16:23:53] stx12 about 12
[16:24:00] Thalion72 so that we can read before the next meeting and then vote on it
[16:24:58] louis_to proposal: The lead of Incubator and the two leads of the Native Language Confederation are delegated by the Community Council to create and dis-create projects in their respective categories as needed; the Community Council reserves the right to intervene in any act of creation or discreation as it sees fit.
[16:25:16] jpmcc dis-create?
[16:25:25] louis_to expunge?
[16:25:28] louis_to but theiy are not
[16:25:41] louis_to kill?
[16:25:43] louis_to mothball?
[16:25:45] louis_to undo?
[16:25:46] louis_to whatever
[16:25:46] jpmcc remove?
[16:25:48] Thalion72 terminate
[16:25:55] louis_to all those sound so drastic
[16:25:57] louis_to but the idea is good
[16:26:01] jpmcc ex-terminate (like the daleks ;-)
[16:26:05] louis_to :-)
[16:26:11] louis_to "remove" sounds best
[16:26:34] louis_to but let's vote?
[16:26:35] stx12 I don't think creation is done "as needed". there is a fine description of the steps.
[16:26:36] Thalion72 anihilate ? :)
[16:26:55] louis_to "as requested"
[16:26:59] Thalion72 but I second stx12
[16:26:59] jpmcc retire
[16:27:09] louis_to yeah, I like "retire"
[16:27:13] * stx12 would like to retire for today
[16:27:25] Thalion72 as we have some good rules for creation, we should have some for the opposit as well
[16:27:27] louis_to do we agree on "as requested" and "retire"?
[16:27:40] louis_to but we do not have to spell them out righ tnow
[16:27:54] jpmcc I agree to retire asap
[16:28:02] louis_to as we are voting only on the general delegation of authority
[16:28:05] Thalion72 louis_to: hmm ..ifyou are really calling for a vote ...
[16:28:19] louis_to a closure to this fairly minor issue
[16:28:25] CorNouws Thalion72: +1 ??
[16:28:26] Thalion72 no, we are voting on the proposal, as currenty written
[16:28:37] louis_to so we can work on the larger one of spelling out what is entailed by removal
[16:28:38] Thalion72 and tis will get a -1
[16:28:39] stx12 and we are asked to vote on the document change again?
[16:28:43] louis_to and retirement
[16:28:48] CorNouws Thalion72: Oops ;-)
[16:29:20] louis_to okay, I table this for next meeting and in the meanwihle suggest we work on the steps of retirement of a project in Incubator and NLC
[16:29:36] louis_to AI: stx12, louis_to, Thalion72
[16:29:43] * CorNouws Sorry for joking on André, was not mentioned to take him not serious
[16:30:10] louis_to with louis_to to come up with initial draft, stx12 with steps for retirement/removal/ and Thalion72 to reivew and edit as needed
[16:30:22] Thalion72 CorNouws: no problem ;) ... I'tslate enough, so I don'ttake serious myself
[16:30:23] stx12 you may want to out you at the first position in the list of ai owners.
[16:30:43] louis_to stx12: you refer to me?
[16:30:48] stx12 sure ;-)
[16:31:07] louis_to hm. not sure what you mean, exactly
[16:31:22] CorNouws Three owners is no owner :-)
[16:31:43] CorNouws We know, Stefan, don 't we?
[16:31:44] louis_to okay, AI louis and to work with the others cited
[16:31:48] stx12 CorNouws: yes, but then it was spelled out
[16:32:02] louis_to and also others as wanted
[16:32:07] louis_to if no other comments?
[16:32:18] CorNouws not from me
[16:32:19] louis_to I move we adjourn tonight's meeting, then
[16:32:33] CorNouws shall I do AI's ?
[16:32:42] louis_to yes, please!
[16:32:46] CorNouws someone interested in minutes?
[16:32:48] * louis_to is ever so thankful!!
[16:33:00] CorNouws ( I won't do those, btw ;-) )
[16:33:04] louis_to I can send off iRC log
[16:33:05] Thalion72 interested in reading or doingminutes? ;)
[16:33:15] CorNouws louis_to: your'e welcome
[16:33:20] CorNouws doing, of course
[16:33:34] CorNouws But I include "decided"on the wiki
[16:33:48] * Thalion72 is not really interested but will do at the weekend
[16:34:09] *** jpmcc has quit IRC ("Bye....")
[16:34:09] louis_to Thanks!
[16:34:18] CorNouws Thalion72: maybe look at the wiki first, the sun might be waiting for you diring the weekend
[16:34:36] louis_to if no objections, I call meeting adjourned
</pre>

Community Council/Minutes

2009-05-14T20:45:45Z

LouisSuarez:

=Minutes of Meetings=

== 209-05-14 ==
* Minutes TBD

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20090514]]

== 2009-04-30 ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===
# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Action items
## Budget
### Louis: schedule a conference call with CC members for next week regarding budget issues
### Matthias: money on account and estimates for incomes and taxes to pay
### Louis: Send estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
## SPI - update
## Trademark
### Update
## Louis, André: elections draft announcement + schedule
## L10n infrastructure
## Cor: project improvement page: further clarification
## All: project improvement page: input for content and links
## ..
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## Discussion started on contests@marketing.openoffice.org
## last time, marketing was the weekest point
## idea is that funding comes from marketing and development budget
## any suggestions / whishes from the cc at this moment
# Proposal for role of council coordinator
## see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2000 mail list]
## discussion
## to go or not to go
# Growing the project
## ...
# Guidelines for bundling extensions
:: [http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=100836 issue 100836] requests the removal of the writer2latex extension from OOo 3.1 (raised as showstopper)
:: reason was given in [http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=100744 issue 100744] as "According to our guidelines for bundling extensions we cannot bundle extensions which are not covered by the guidelines to contribute (meaning SCA)."
:: Question to the council: where are those guidelines, who approved these guidelines at what time?

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20090430]]

=== AI's ===

# Budget
## Louis: schedule a conference call with CC members regarding budget issues
## Matthias: more clear on situation wrt taxes to pay?
## Louis: Send and gather estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
# Trademark policy
## Do we know by now why we need/want it
# Elections
## Running ?
# L10n infrastructure
## More news from discussion?
# Project improvement page
## Cor add some content, then ping Louis to mail project leads

=== Notes ===
Important info / discussion, not coming back as AI for the nextmeeting

* SPI; info about procedures / position / possibility to improve (when we want to invest time)

=== Minutes ===

TBD

== 2009-04-09==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===
# L10n builds distribution over the network, see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?listName=discuss&msgNo=1986 Rafaella mail]
## what can we do to support
## ..
# Growing the project
## see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1999 mail list]
## discussion
## to go or not to go
# Proposal for role of council coordinator
## see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2000 mail list]
## discussion
## to go or not to go
# Guidelines for bundling extensions
:: [http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=100836 issue 100836] requests the removal of the writer2latex extension from OOo 3.1 (raised as showstopper)
:: reason was given in [http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=100744 issue 100744] as "According to our guidelines for bundling extensions we cannot bundle extensions which are not covered by the guidelines to contribute (meaning SCA)."
:: Question to the council: where are those guidelines, who approved these guidelines at what time?
# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Action items
## Budget
### Louis: schedule a conference call with CC members for next week regarding budget issues
### Matthias: money on account and estimates for incomes and taxes to pay
### Louis: Send estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
## SPI - update
## Trademark
### Louis to review with André and John trademark proposals; also to revisit the list (done)
### Update
## Louis, André: elections draft announcement + schedule
## Cor to send to CC list proposals on CC function, structure and community growth (both done)

=== log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20090409]]

=== AI's ===
# Budget
## Louis: schedule a conference call with CC members for next week regarding budget issues
## Matthias: money on account and estimates for incomes and taxes to pay
## Louis: Send estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
# SPI - update
# Trademark
## Update
# Louis, André: elections draft announcement + schedule
# L10n infrastructure
# Cor: further discussion on proposal council coordinator via mail
# Cor: project improvement page: further clarification
# All: project improvement page: input for content and links

=== Minutes ===
TBD

== 2009-03-26==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===
# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Action items
## Elections ..
## New charter - done
## Budget precedures - done
## SPI
### mails to CC list ..
### info on donations page - done
## Trademark
## Growing the project
### info on wiki
### further ideas / discussion
# (2009) Budget
## Is it possible to work with yearly spending / income sheets etc. (see irc log)
# Proposal for role of council co-ordinator
## appoint a council coordinator every 4 to 5 months, who is responsible during that time for poking the colleagues ;-) etc.
### will improve overall cc-performance
### will help to share the feeling of really being part of it, of joined responsibility
# L10n builds distribution over the network, see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?listName=discuss&msgNo=1986 Rafaella mail]

=== log ===
* [[Community Council Log 20090326]]

=== AI's ===
Action items
# Budget
## Louis: schedule a conference call with CC members for next week regarding budget issues
## Matthias: money on account and estimates for incomes and taxes to pay
## Louis: Send estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
# SPI - update
# Trademark
## Louis to review with André and John trademark proposals; also to revisit the list (done)
## Update
# Louis, André: elections draft announcement + schedule
# Cor to send to CC list proposals on CC function, structure and community growth (both done)

=== Minutes ===
* Minutes TBD

== 2009-03-12 [[Community Council Notes 20090312]] ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===
# Minutes of previous meeting for approval and action items
# 2008 Financial Statement
# 2009 Budget
# Proposal for role of Community Co-ordinator (Cor)
# Update on Trademarks (Sophie)

=== Attendees ===
* Sophie Gautier (sophi)
* Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
* John McCreesh (jpmcc)
* Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
* André Schnabel (Thalion72)
* Stefan Taxhet (stx12)

** absent: Pavel Janik (paveljanik)
** absent: Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_)

=== Minutes ===
====New and Familiar Action Items====
* Elections: to commence this week with candidate nominations (Louis and Sophie).
*Announcements related to new charter and elections:
1. For new charter (André and John, ''completed'')
2. for nominations and election news, 3 days after the first announcement
* Trademark update (In lawyer's hands; update: Sophie, John, Louis): "in progress"
* Budget procedures clarification (John and probably others): ''in progress''
* LSP: Louis to re-send to CC list original emails related to SPI

===Summary/Minutes===
* Prior minutes were approved

===Old Action Items and actions and summary of discussion===
* André: review plebiscite on Community Council Proposal, ask the council to formally accept the proposal and publish as new version of the charter - complete - on agenda -''completed''
* John: make budget procedures more visible - ''completed''
* Sophie: prepare a short note about trademark proposal for the next meeting - complete -'' on agenda''
* Sophie: resend mail on SPI to the council list for comments - on agenda
* Louis / Matthias: get treasurers of Team OOo e.V. and SPI in contact - Action: Matthias to ping Louis for contact details - ''completed''
* Charter change (André) see email - Agreed Proposal formally accepted by Council, updated on Web, ''completed''.
Trademark (Sophie) draft_0.6 is ready, waiting comments from Marketing - Action: under legal review, ''continuing''
* Budget (Cor) we intended to decide on the budget for 2009. Is info available? Martin said this was scheduled for March.
* Budget (Cor) Proposal for clear routing of funding request: see email. Agreed. Action - Cor --''completed''
* Budget (Cor) Proposal to ask the l10n-team at Sun, if new hardware is badly needed see mail. Action Stefan to see if we can improve quality of service by spending CC budget on infrastructure: ''completed'':
** ST spoke with Rafallea Branconi and she "feels comfortable with the current setup with 2 pootle servers.'we will monitor these more closely to see whether they are as reliable as we need it. Sophie argued that language partition is inefficient and that we should partition by region instead. ''Discussion to continue''
* Budget (Sophie) SPI Info needed see mail – Action: Louis/Sophie contacted SPI and Louis is sending MHU notifications of donations; link to SPI repository on donation page (http://contributing.openoffice.org/donate.html). L/S attended last Board meeting as observers and will participate more actively to run for office. (Why SPI? Because makes it easier for US residents to pay via cheque or credit card.)
* Growing the project (Cor) see mail Action Cor to put on the wiki- completed: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Project_Improvements : ''Discussions to be conducted on list'' '''Action remaining: Louis to re-send to CC list original emails'''.
* This year's GSoC (John) Action Stefan to see if we are likely to be accepted- ''discussed''
* Proposals for OOoCon and the Community consultation process (John). John stated that after discussions on the lists, the Marketing Project had decided to change the process to award OOoCon one year in advance. This would give teams more time to prepare and to allow them to learn from the previous team. This means this year the MP will be awarding OOoCon 09 and 10, then next year OOoCon 11, etc. As time was short, John agreed to continue this conversation on the CC list. Action John--''completed''

== 2009-02-19 (IRC) ==

===Attendees===
* Sophie Gautier (sophi)
* Pavel Janik (paveljanik)
* Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_)
* Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
* John McCreesh (jpmcc)
* Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
* André Schnabel (Thalion72)
* Stefan Taxhet (stx12)

* missing:
** Louis Suarez-Potts (absent)

===Minutes===
16:45 Meeting opened
# Minutes of previous meeting - approved
# Action items
## André: review plebiscite on Community Council Proposal, ask the council to formally accept the proposal and publish as new version of the charter - complete - ''on agenda''
## John: make budget procedures more visible - ''complete''
## Cor: draft a proposal for a more clear workflow - ''on agenda''
## Sophie: prepare a short note about trademark proposal for the next meeting - complete - ''on agenda''
## Sophie: resend mail on SPI to the council list for comments - ''on agenda''
## Louis / Matthias: get treasurers of Team OOo e.V. and SPI in contact - '''Action''': Matthias to ping Louis for contact details
# Charter change (André) [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1944 see email] - '''Agreed''' Proposal formally accepted by Council
# Trademark (Sophie) draft_0.6 is ready, waiting comments from Marketing - '''Action''': John to review
# Budget (Cor) we intended to decide on the budget for 2009. Is info available? Martin said this was scheduled for March.
# Budget (Cor) Proposal for clear routing of funding request: [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1923 see email]. '''Agreed'''. '''Action''' - Cor to add to wiki
# Budget (Cor) Proposal to ask the l10n-team at Sun, if new hardware is badly needed [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1843 see mail]. '''Action''' Stefan to see if we can improve quality of service by spending CC budget on infrastructure
# Budget (Sophie) SPI Info needed [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1854 see mail] - already discussed
# Growing the project (Cor) [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1946 see mail] '''Action''' Cor to put on the wiki
# This year's [http://code.google.com/opensource/gsoc/2009/faqs.html GSoC] (John) '''Action''' Stefan to see if we are likely to be accepted
# [http://marketing.openoffice.org/ooocon2009/cfl/index.html Proposals for OOoCon] and the Community consultation process (John). John stated that after discussions on the lists, the Marketing Project had decided to change the process to award OOoCon one year in advance. This would give teams more time to prepare and to allow them to learn from the previous team. This means this year the MP will be awarding OOoCon 09 and 10, then next year OOoCon 11, etc. As time was short, John agreed to continue this conversation on the CC list. '''Action''' John
# AOB - none
17:49 UTC Meeting closed

==2009-01-22 (IRC)==

===Attendees===
* Sophie Gautier (sophi)
* Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_)
* Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
* Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
* André Schnabel (Thalion72)
* Stefan Taxhet (stx12)

* missing:
** Louis Suarez-Potts (excused)
** Pavel Janik

===New Action Items===

* André: review plebiscite on Community Council Proposal, ask the council to formally accept the proposal and publish as new version of the charter

* John: make budget procedures more visible
* Cor: draft a proposal for a more clear workflow

* Sophie: prepare a short note about trademark proposal for the next meeting

* Sophie: resend mail on SPI to the council list for comments
* Louis / Matthias: get treasurers of Team OOo e.V. and SPI in contact

===Agenda===

# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Approval of provisional budgets for 2009
# Endorsement of "Developer's Manifesto 2009"
# AOB

===Minutes===

* budget holders can start with the same budgets as for 2008. Budgets for 2009 will be reviewed end of Feb. (after Team OOo e.V. finished finanzial review, budged holders are asked to prepare a more detailed budget plan, if possible)

* a "Developer's Manifesto 2009" will be published on the OOo website, as porposed on the [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1922 council mailing list]

* Other business
** the new Charter Proposal has passed all steps that are necessary to become final. The results of the plebiscite need to be reviewed and the proposal needs to be published at the council website as new version of the charter.
:: AI for André: review plebiscite, ask the council to formally accept the proposal and publish as new version of the charter

:* André suggested to move the budget and funding procedures to the council website. Proposal was rejected, as the procedure is likely to be reworked.
:: AI for John: make budget procedures more visible
:: AI for Cor: draft a proposal for a more clear workflow

:* CorNouws asked what the status of the trademark proposal is
:: AI for Sophie: prepare a short note about trademark proposal for the next meeting

:* Sophie asked for more information about SPI
:: AI for Sophie: resend mail on SPI to the council list for comments
:: AI for Louis / Matthias: get treasurers of Team OOo e.V. and SPI in contact

=== Log ===
[[Community Council Log 20092201]]

== OLDER MEETINGS ... 2008 and before ==
See the next page:
[[Community_Council/Minutes_2008_and_older]]

Community Council Log 20090514

2009-05-14T20:43:32Z

LouisSuarez: New page: == IRC Log of Community Council Meeting 2009-05-14 == '''Attendees''' * Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_) * Matthias Huetsch (mhu) * Cor Nouws (CorNouws) * André Schnabel (Thalion72) * Pave...

== IRC Log of Community Council Meeting 2009-05-14 ==

'''Attendees'''

* Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_)
* Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
* Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
* André Schnabel (Thalion72)
* Pavel Janik (paveljanik)
* Louis Suárez-Potts (louis_to)
* Stefan Taxhet (stx12)

* Absent: * Sophie Gautier, John McCreesh

<pre>

IRC log 2009-05-14

louis_to shall we start?
louis_to okay, with that resounding call, yes, let's go! ;-)
louis_to We cannot really approve the minutes, as we lack a full quorum, but equally, we do not really define a quorum for meetings
louis_to so, to cut the gordian knot:
louis_to do we approve the IRC log as posted?
louis_to http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council_Log_20090430
stx12 yes
louis_to I just posted it and it is a cut and paste of the log
_Nesshof_ +1
louis_to others? please indicate your ...
mhu +1
* louis_to pokes CorNouws
* louis_to waves to paveljanik
CorNouws No need to approve a log, IMO ;-)
louis_to hello ;-)
louis_to well, there ought to be, and following form is useful
louis_to be that as it may, I didn't edit when I put them there
louis_to and we can now moe on
louis_to AIs (thanks to CorNouws)
CorNouws Minutes are conducted, so must be approved. Logs are recorded, so are as they are ...
louis_to Louis: schedule a conference call with CC members regarding budget issues
louis_to Status: Not done.
mhu meanwhile we agreed upon to meet next monday ...
louis_to Schedule for me, at least, is easier (by a lot) next week
CorNouws Yes, Matthias, André and I will meet next monday evening
CorNouws Either by phone or by ..? do not know yet
louis_to I can provide a phone number
mhu louis_to: yes that would be fine, I guess phone fits better
CorNouws Thanks, if we want to. We shall sort that out by mail - AFAIAC
louis_to so: Resolution, members of CC, Mu, Andre, CorNouws, possibly Louis to meet Monday (next) to discuss budget issues
louis_to meeting by phone
CorNouws I find phone often hard to understand, sorry.
mhu louis_to: that would 19:00 cet / 13:00 EDT
louis_to okay, sort it out before hand
CorNouws So Iprefer IRC
louis_to one can do both
louis_to but let's sort it out by email, as Andre is also to be involved
CorNouws Good idea yes
paveljanik can we please only UTC for time planning_
paveljanik ?
louis_to +1
louis_to I dislike local times, get confused, too
*** Thalion72 (n=sca@p3EE2A8A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined the channel
mhu paveljanik: that would be 17:00 UTC ...
paveljanik the worst case is when you use two local times.
louis_to hello Andre
CorNouws paveljanik: Sorry, the link was UTC, the letters were CET - my mistake
Thalion72 hi
louis_to let's move on to #2 (Andre, did n't do much so far)
louis_to Matthias: more clear on situation wrt taxes to pay?
mhu can we leave the details for monday? otherwise, we are waiting to get back resolution from finance offices
CorNouws Monday OK for me, of course
mhu ...we are in the process to pay for 2003 ... 2006
louis_to I see no problems with that
louis_to shall we move on?
louis_to Resolution to #2: tabled until Monday evening meeting
louis_to #3: Louis: Send and gather estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
louis_to I sent a note to Project Leads list and Alexandro replied
louis_to but no one else. I sent a reminder today
CorNouws No response = no need ?!
louis_to given the lack of response, I'll ping more, but will otherwise focus on those events that I know about and which are deemed by me and others (if hope) to be good
mhu maybe, marketing project is the better source for event proposals?
Thalion72 CorNouws: rather no long term planning :(
louis_to CorNouws: no, there is need, as we are many communities
louis_to Thalion72: alas, +1
Thalion72 louis_to: focus on the input you recieve ;)
louis_to mhu: I'll do both, but project_leads list includes MP people
louis_to that said, I'll do what I've done before, and use both lists
louis_to (this is not the first time we've done this, I point out)
mhu fine with me ...
louis_to AI: LSP: ping more on this
louis_to Trademark Policy
louis_to The broad question is, Do we know by now why we need/want it
louis_to I leave immediate answers to others; unfortunately, sophie is absent
Thalion72 there have been more or less been two suggetions on this
Thalion72 1st: we need a policy to prevent people who do not contribute all the code back to OOo to prevent our TM
Thalion72 (this can easily be translated to "we do not want to allow go-oo based builds to use our Trademark")
Thalion72 2nd: we need a TM policy that is supported by the community, so that the tm-holder cannot act on it's ohn behalf
louis_to I do not see those proposals as in contradiction
Thalion72 correct :)
Thalion72 1st would cause a rather restrictive policy, 2nd a very liberate
louis_to My impression is that we can finalize this, and I think given the current context, it would make sense to do so
stx12 not to mention that it helps to point ast something if we see obious abuse
Thalion72 stx12: correct
louis_to And I'd think that we can have restrictions on a case-by-case basis, not as universal blanket
CorNouws ??
CorNouws ???
Thalion72 louis_to: restriction on case-by-case is imho not possible (atlast not for products) .. this will be a no-go for debian
CorNouws 1: I do not see those proposals as in contradiction <> 1st would cause a rather restrictive policy, 2nd a very liberate
louis_to CorNouws: for particular queries, we decide on an individual basis
louis_to CorNouws: not really; it depends on the rigour of interpretation and phrasing
CorNouws 2. The idea of a policy was / is (often mentioned) not a one by one basis (not my idea, BTW)
louis_to ie, we do not want folks to exploit the work of the communty, and that includes the copyright and trademark holder, who is part of the community
louis_to hence, the idea of specific review of individual problematic cases--which is effectively done now
Thalion72 louis_to: we should go and discuss this at the tm mailing list
louis_to and I'm reviewing, for instance, valuesoft and also www.openoffice.co.tw
louis_to Thalion72: yes
Thalion72 as council we would sooner or later need to decide what way to choose (restrictive or liberate)
CorNouws louis_to: www.openoffice.co.tw is not valid
louis_to agreed
louis_to CorNouws: was going by memory
louis_to have we dealt with AI on trademark?
louis_to can we move on to Elections?
Thalion72 louis_to: is still have to bring my thoughts to a mail
CorNouws louis_to: http://www.openoffice.com.tw/ seems to work
Thalion72 (about TM)
louis_to CorNouws: thanks
louis_to Thalion72: on trademark list--yes?
Thalion72 louis_to: yes
CorNouws _Nesshof_: and mhu and paveljanik: do you have the idea that the TM discussion is clear anough and moving in rigth direction??
louis_to _Nesshof_, paveljanik--ping??
_Nesshof_ CorNouws: no, I think we need to be closed into a room until we have agreed on a proceeding ;-)
louis_to then let's ;-) I'll be in Europe in June, btw, London
CorNouws OK, I have a small one - works faster ;-)
louis_to I'd be happy to meet in persoin
mhu my personal opinon: we have a good proposal of Martin (ooo equals what a testsuite defines), unfortunately we dont have that te
mhu st suite
CorNouws _Nesshof_: But not kidding: I think try to make more clear on the tm-list now, is a valuable first step ??
louis_to mhu, _Nesshof_: can we issue that proposal *without* the actual testsuite?
CorNouws mhu: and it is unlikely - AFAIU - that we will have that test suite rather soon?
louis_to ie, have that in development?
Thalion72 louis_to: we have a testsuite .. but this is not generic enough
louis_to but it can be
Thalion72 ... and it will (imho) never be
louis_to my point is that we need the policy and the policy can be soft of in potential
louis_to and rely on a dodgy technology that is refined
CorNouws I think defining a policy, where you need a testsuite, that you know you do not have and will not in the coming year or so, is very very ad
louis_to and that can be phrased in the policy
CorNouws ad = bad of course
louis_to why bad?
louis_to governments do that all the time; that is the nature of modern governance
louis_to to allow for realworld discprepancies
CorNouws because you cannot use that policy, enforce it or how you may call that
louis_to if it is phrased properly, you can
louis_to ie, limit the test suite to those that exist at the moment
CorNouws we are no governments, we must be able to stand for court to protext our TM
Thalion72 louis_to: please stop here .. we shouuld move on with *decisions* here ;)
louis_to and hold open the other instances where the test suite does not apply as requiring specific intervention
CorNouws and we will faile with werecked rules /policy/ lacking testsuite ...
louis_to Thalion72: agreed.
louis_to let's move on to elections
CorNouws louis_to: and pls read what hase been written about the test suite :-(
Thalion72 louis_to: the testsuite we have does just not wor for this purpose .. fullstop ;)
CorNouws Thalion72: indeed!
louis_to Andre: do you want to give a quick summary of the elections situation ?
louis_to and, thanks for the immense work done !!
Thalion72 summary: we have the people to run the elections (means supervisor and observers are defined)
Thalion72 list of project leads has been reviewed ... but we should officially confirm, that two projects do not exist anymore
stx12 to be more precise:
Thalion72 we need the mail adresses for the code contributor list
Thalion72 and we need the announcement
* _Nesshof_ will deliver the mail addresses until tomorrow morning
Thalion72 ok .. I'm done with the stauts
stx12 the accepted project utilities has been merged into framework (is now a subproject in CEE terms)
stx12 so andre suggests that we approve this change here.
louis_to is there any controversy or real reason to include the CC?
Thalion72 louis_to: hmm .. I need to check the charter again, but it is up to the council to introduce new projects,
mhu I dont think there is any controversy here
stx12 i think project closure is as significant as a status change to accepted - but no controversy
louis_to Thalion72: I am not certain it is.... but I see no controversy here, anyway
louis_to then, if no controversy, let's vote on the action...
stx12 +1
Thalion72 louis_to: no .it#s not controverse
Thalion72 +1
mhu +1
louis_to +1
paveljanik +1
CorNouws +1
* _Nesshof_ is not sure what is being voted about
Thalion72 _Nesshof_: that there is no utilities project anymore
louis_to basically, cleaning up the projects as listed to conform with reality
stx12 the closure of utilities as separate accepted project.
_Nesshof_ ok, I see, agreed, +1
louis_to Resolution: Change to accepted project passed unanimously
stx12 change from ...
* stx12 should be quiet when native speakers talk...
* louis_to notes he's not really a native speaker :-)
Thalion72 :)
louis_to but, change from accepted project status: utllities is no longer a project in existence, having been merged
Thalion72 same procedure for ODFtoolkit - it now exists outside OOo and not as project within OOo anymore
louis_to Correct. But was ODF Toolkit finally accepted?
* louis_to checks
Thalion72 it was incubator
louis_to right, so it need not incur our vote
louis_to I just delete it as needed
Thalion72 oh .. incubator project leads are included in the electorate ;)
stx12 odftoolkit moves to odftoolkit.org; we will retain the content within xml.ooo
louis_to they are, and we can invoke the CC- for this--do we want to?
louis_to my only point is procedural: at what point do you want the CC to authorize all admin things like that?
louis_to I tend to avoid introducing democratic but seemingly needless bureaucratic procedures
louis_to that's all...
stx12 the news about odftoolkit was more as an fyi; i think we should for accepted projects
Thalion72 louis_to: http://council.openoffice.org/councilcharter12.html#PowersoftheCouncil 3. b)
louis_to I suppose that I read that thinking more of Accpeted, and not incubator or NLC
mhu Thalion72: yes, that meant accepted projects originally
louis_to I create, for instance, NLC projects routinely, and Charles and I handle inactive ones, too
Thalion72 louis_to: so it should be up to the council to review and remove such inactive projects
louis_to I would suggest that we thus modify the language there to be more precise and to refer to "Accepted Projects" only, not Incubator or NLC
louis_to Thalion72: for all projects? Or just for Accepted?
Thalion72 but istead of just doing this, we debate if we shoult do or not
louis_to but this is actually not unimportant
Thalion72 louis_to: if I speak of projects I speak of all projects
Thalion72 I think, this thing here is called "Community Council" and not "Accepted Community Council"
louis_to do you wish then to have to vote on authorizing the creation of every project?
louis_to I think that's a silly intervention of bureaucracy
louis_to and would suggest that the language be made more precise
Thalion72 louis_to: I would have no problem, If there was a clear and reliable reference of what projects we have
stx12 i think we continue the practise to delegate this to category leads for incubator and nlc
Thalion72 stx12: last time I asced the incubator cat. lead, if the list of projects is up to date I got no answer
louis_to I am the lead; I do not recall your email.
louis_to when did you send it?
louis_to and to what address?
louis_to and, it was up to date until fairly recently
stx12 folks, would somebody like to add an agenda item and a proposal?
Thalion72 need to check .. bout three weeks ago
CorNouws stx12: +1
CorNouws Can we do #.3.3?
louis_to no matter, let's add this to the agenda: my proposal to specify th elanguage and also Stefan's, that we delegate
CorNouws So looking at #3.3, we can say Yes, unless we find out later that we didn't need to say that?
louis_to CorNouws yes.
louis_to and further proiposal, that for accepted we decide as a body
Thalion72 btw. as I asked to confirm that ODFToolkit is no project at OOo anymore .. and the council did not confirm this .. does it mean, the project is still existing?
Thalion72 (ok .. no need to answer)
louis_to I actually believe I asked dieter and the others and did not receive an answer, as I'm also curious
louis_to but the situation now answers that :-)
louis_to so, let us vote on the removal of the ODF toolkit project from Incubator, and its coinsequent cleanup
louis_to +1
mhu I do confirm that odftoolkit does not exist anymore
Thalion72 +1
CorNouws +1
_Nesshof_ agreed
mhu +1
louis_to stx12?
paveljanik +1
stx12 ok, odftoolkit will be removed from incubator
louis_to okay, resolution as stated above
* mhu needs to finish in about 10 min ...
louis_to 4.1: L10n infrastructure
louis_to 1. More news from discussion?
stx12 i added an item about the election process
Thalion72 stop
louis_to ?
Thalion72 correct: stx12 asked about the status of the election process
stx12 status of Community_Council/Items/Election_Process_Proposal
Thalion72 this is (according to the wiki) still a proposal
stx12 http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Items/Election_Process_Proposal
stx12 IIRC we agreed to move along this bylaws in beijing.
stx12 so let
stx12 so let's agre again and we don't start the elction based on a proposal
mhu agreed +1
stx12 +1
Thalion72 as I know the proposal .. +1
CorNouws +1
louis_to +1
_Nesshof_ +1
* mhu needs to finish in about 5 min ...
louis_to so, stx12: what did we just vote on?
louis_to that the proposal for the election process that we agreed on be agreed on again? :-)
CorNouws You can read that in the log, Louis ;-)
Thalion72 louis_to: yes ... we've just not been shure that we already had a formal vote on it (htere is nothing in the logs or minutes)
stx12 that this is no longer a proposal but a formaly agreed upon process
louis_to then I am glad that was the what, as that was what I thought :-)
louis_to but it;s specific relation to the infrasatructure?
louis_to ie, to 4.1?
stx12 hm, i think your browser plays games to you
CorNouws Yes, pls
CorNouws As Martin (IIRC) said last time, a discussion on the mail list started, but without clear end. Someone should use some leadership there ;-)
Thalion72 hmm .. I could try, when the announcement for the elections is done
* mhu is going offline now ...
CorNouws Would be great. I can have a look as well, see if I can give some suggestions
CorNouws mhu: Have a nice evening - CUlater
Thalion72 mhu: bye
mhu bye all, cu later
louis_to mhu: bye
louis_to paveljanik: would you like to vote on the proposal?
*** mhu has quit IRC ("good night")
stx12 i think the suggestions are on the table; it needs some action...
louis_to I can actually dive into that, discussing on the list
* louis_to notes it's about time...
* louis_to he's done something ...
louis_to ->paveljanik: ping
CorNouws Better prepare #2.4 (L10n infrastructure) for next meeting ??
CorNouws And continue with #2.5, Project improvement page ??
Thalion72 +1
stx12 no, change of handling of the space management according to the suggestions raised on th elist.
stx12 and this needs some leadership; that's correct.
CorNouws stx12: Did that discussion lead to a clear proposal already??
stx12 at least to suggested next steps
CorNouws OK, so that must be worked out further,
CorNouws cause I've seen various suggestions, and possible problems with those as well ;-)
louis_to I think as stx12 suggests and CorNouws, too, we need to demonstrate leadership there and get this done
CorNouws stx12: Thalion72: CorNouws: we ca do that, OK?
stx12 http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=10839
Thalion72 CorNouws: no problem (stx12: website hangs :( )
* stx12 just searched the mail
louis_to works now
CorNouws Thanks, Stefan, good summary as I see now.
CorNouws I see no further objections to move on ..
louis_to are we closing then on 2.4.1?
* louis_to notes with pride he got the numbering riight
CorNouws Yes, And #2.5: I have not worked on this yet.
CorNouws Simply because Internship (#3), is IMO more urgent now, and lacks a bit attention already
louis_to okay, in progress
CorNouws So I suggest to continue with #3: OpenOffice.org Internship
louis_to Agreed
louis_to stx12: do you have an update?
CorNouws http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Marketing/OOoInternship#Planning_.2F_TODO
stx12 no, not from my end
CorNouws And I suggest that I try to find some people for marketing work for this tomorrow and Saturday
* louis_to just fixed an error in spelling
louis_to the key issue, I thought, was coordinating with would-be mentors....
louis_to so I am curious: do we have a roster (list) of such mentors?
CorNouws The idea was to ask on project-leads list?
stx12 i think the first step is to define the basic rules: who is eligible, how much do we spend, ...
louis_to yes, but there is also the Hamburg connexion
louis_to stx12: perhaps.
stx12 if we copy an existing approach that's easy
louis_to but I think having a sense of the availablity of mentors helps
louis_to for instance, eric and I were often frustrated in education b/c lack of participation by project leads
stx12 believe me, we will find > 5 mentors
* louis_to has no choice but to believe stx12 :-)
CorNouws stx12: I think so too
louis_to then I might suggest that we also tie in Education project here
louis_to but that can be further discussed on the proposed wiki
stx12 i'm sure about that for poposed tasks; but even for adhoc proposals i would bet...
CorNouws louis_to: yes pls.
louis_to so, finally, the real 4.1
louis_to Council Co-ordinator
louis_to http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/BrowseList?list=discuss&by=thread&from=2222504
CorNouws Proposal for role of council coordinator (#4) Start for discussion, where some people asked for, is made. Discussion not yet ..
CorNouws So we cannot move on with this, IMO
louis_to hm. I suggest we put a time line on this--yes?
Thalion72 and then?
CorNouws Why should you?
louis_to sshh!
CorNouws Grins
louis_to just to see about getting it done
CorNouws No, people just need to do what they say
Thalion72 ok timeline: start discussion tomorrow
CorNouws If not, setting time lines is usesles
louis_to well, for me, that's actually still today (I mean tomorrow)
louis_to be that as it may: resolution on this is ?
louis_to undecided at present
CorNouws André meant: tomorrow at latest ;-)
_Nesshof_ puuhhh
CorNouws Who did ask for discussion ?
louis_to _Nesshof_: you wish to vote on this issue now?
Thalion72 louis_to: we already *voted* on it
louis_to yes, I know, but then went on to talk against our vote
Thalion72 but some people then thought they misread the proposal ..
louis_to quite
louis_to so, I want to finalize this
louis_to now would be fine
Thalion72 louis_to: just do
louis_to shoudl a coordianator be a CC member?
louis_to is the issue that hung us up
louis_to I'd say, Yes.
louis_to as tha was what we voted on to start with and that is what makes sense
Thalion72 huh?
CorNouws louis_to: understood, thanks
Thalion72 of course this was what we voted on
_Nesshof_ I'd say, not necessarily
louis_to then, if we agree that that is what we want and that is what we agreed to when we voted on...
louis_to sigh...
Thalion72 :)
louis_to then if we disagree, we should revote or rewrite the proposal
louis_to so, I propose:
CorNouws _Nesshof_: why?
louis_to A coordinator must be a CC member : please, let us discuss this now, briefly and then vote
_Nesshof_ CorNouws: why should this be a CC member ?
CorNouws Cause each member get his/her turn
Thalion72 I'm fine with both ideas .. pleas send a loud ping if I should vote
louis_to _Nesshof_: b/c iasking non-CC members to have nonvoting status here complicates the charter, to begin with, and introduces unneeded elements
CorNouws And there is a logic, intelligence maybe, behind the roulating
louis_to roulating?
stx12 rotating
CorNouws louis_to: that is a minor issue, not related to the logic of the proposal
louis_to what is a minor issue?
CorNouws stx12: thanks (my bad Enlgish sorry)
louis_to we all agreed on the need of a coordinator and on its utility
CorNouws louis_to: What you said about voting rights
louis_to the nonmember bit is what stopped things last time, CorNouws
CorNouws louis_to: did we ??
louis_to yes.
louis_to if we include a coordinator, then do we give rights?
CorNouws We voted for the proposal as is, all +1
* louis_to assumes not a CC member
CorNouws I did not see any distintion in voting on one part of the proposal
_Nesshof_ a non CC member has no right to vote
louis_to CorNouws; the issue that was the showstopper was that some wanted to ask Terri Molini to be the Coordinator
louis_to but Terri is not a CC member
CorNouws There is no nead for the coordinator to vite, is there?
CorNouws But that is not the problem
louis_to thus, that introduced some elements that we did not vote on
louis_to _Nesshof_ believes that is okay; I see problems in that
_Nesshof_ louis_to: why ?
CorNouws No, the proposal is about rotating, so that each gets a change to do the good work, and get more feeling with what we do
louis_to the issue then, is that if we want a Coordinator,then that coordinator shoudl be a cc member
CorNouws and gets more arware etc.
louis_to _Nesshof_ for the reasons I ponted out: would she be voting?
louis_to CorNouws; I know the issue we voted on; this is a subordinate issue
louis_to in effect, we would be asking for free labour: someone to take notes, act as a sercretary, ec.
louis_to etc., that is
CorNouws I psopose that we focus on the proposal first
louis_to CorNouws; -1
CorNouws Do we understand what is meant with it, what it reaches for?
louis_to let's first nail who is eligible, yes?
CorNouws No
louis_to CorNouws; are you writing to me, or to us? I think we all appreciate the issue
louis_to and understand its point
*** Thalion72 is now known as Thalion72_away
louis_to _Nesshof_: is there a good argument for including a non-CC member ? ;-)
CorNouws louis_to: , all: try to understand the logic of the proposal, then (possibly) what we have to do with non cc members
paveljanik ok, I nee to go out now. Bye
louis_to CorNouws: I think we "got* the logic a while ago ;-)
louis_to bye
louis_to I too have to leave for another meeting, one I must stpeak at
CorNouws louis_to: So how then can we talk about asking a non cc member for the post?
louis_to CorNouws?
louis_to Cor, I would say, obviously, we cannot, given the point
_Nesshof_ louis_to: is there a good argument why only CC member should be candidates for this job ?
louis_to yes, two
louis_to 1. as CorNouws says, the logic of the proposal is not to get free labour but
louis_to to get us aware of the requirements for engaging the CC members and community in participating
stx12 _Nesshof_: because it shows the interest in the council work by council members.
louis_to 2. introducing a nonCC member introduces issues with voting rights and the logistics of operation
louis_to basically, we might as well hire a secretary
louis_to it thus goes against the grain of the proposal
CorNouws We often have been disappointed by how the cc works 9 or not) and had discussions
louis_to and ialso makes our life more diffiuclt
CorNouws on how to improve
CorNouws rotating task (small) will help that :-)
louis_to _Nesshof_: the question is therefore: why do you want a non-CC member?
* _Nesshof_ doubt that
_Nesshof_ why should we limit this job to CC members ?
louis_to yes, I agree with _Nesshof_"s skepticism, but that's beside the immediate point; it might help others, and it certainly will help whoever is tasked with doing it feel less burdened
stx12 _Nesshof_: why not give a try to remove the doubts in the next turn?
louis_to _Nesshof_: because of the arguments I raised
louis_to you have not responded to them. You have ignored them
CorNouws _Nesshof_: Because cc member will not learn if someone else does their job
louis_to but they are fatal to the idea of a non-CC member
louis_to I **really* have to go very very soon
louis_to I would thus ask that we rratify our vote
stx12 CorNouws: but that's exactly the question whether coordination fosters the improvements you would like to see.
louis_to and limit the coordinator to the CC as specified in the proposal
_Nesshof_ maybe the need for a coordinator vanish with the election for a new CC
louis_to _Nesshof_: I doubt it. the issue is distributing the burden of work, as much as anything else
Thalion72_away and maybe earth will become a disc (scnr)
Thalion72_away ;)
* louis_to you mean it isn't?
* _Nesshof_ is not insisting to have also non CC - members as a coordinator
* louis_to thought that Web 2.0 meant the world was flat ;-)
louis_to then let us vote on affirming the original vote and proposal for a coordinator
louis_to let us vote now
* stx12 would prefer to vote on the next voluntary coordinator
* louis_to is unclear what that means but you mean after elections?
_Nesshof_ stx12: do we have a volunteer ?
CorNouws stx12: good idea: the one for the next 4 months, Plus the one for thereafter
_Nesshof_ the one thereafter should be stx12, he the only one where we know that he will be CC member again
_Nesshof_ ;-)
stx12 that depends on the management...
_Nesshof_ lol
stx12 i guess the log is closed since some minutes, right?
CorNouws stx12: you want to be the second one?
CorNouws and in 4 moths we vote for the 3rd
CorNouws than only there have to stand one up for now
louis_to stx12: not quite
CorNouws stx12: not mine ;-)
louis_to but I do have to leave
* _Nesshof_ sits down
louis_to at :30 after hour
CorNouws louis_to: is my proposal OK, than I can be the first
louis_to thanks
_Nesshof_ CorNouws: +1
louis_to but let it be stated that we are all now in agreement with the proposal that we oringally agreed to
CorNouws louis_to: indeed, thanks!
louis_to and that CorNouws has volunteered for the first round
CorNouws ans Stefan - deo volente - for the 2nd
*** Thalion72_away is now known as Thalion72
louis_to and that in future we really need to be more attentive to how we act ..
*** Thalion72 is now known as Thalion72_away
stx12 thanks Cor; how long are you already doing this?
* CorNouws André is playing hide and seek with himself ;-)
Thalion72_away jepp :)
CorNouws stx12: doing what?
stx12 we don't have a quorum was with what louis_to started the meeting ;-)
stx12 CorNouws: some kind of coordination...
Thalion72_away long enough to set a max. period of 4 months ;)
CorNouws started 40 yrs ago - the called me cordinator at scouts ;-)
Thalion72_away ok .. but finally .. can we get the votes done?
stx12 hm, then you should ask whether a renewal is possible...
Thalion72_away so that we approve the proposal of a council coordinator as suggest in http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2032
* CorNouws really have to leave soon, otherwise I will be devorsed next week :-(
Thalion72_away +1 from my side on the proposal
CorNouws +1
stx12 +1 (again)
CorNouws wrt the quorum: voting continued on the list ?!
Thalion72_away yes .. seems to be the better idea
Thalion72_away and also the vote for Cor as our first coordinator
Thalion72_away I'll vote here +1for Cor (so no vote from my side later on the list)
louis_to all agreed then....
louis_to who are here, still
Thalion72_away and as we are now done with the agenda .. and i'Ts getting quite late, I'm going to leave
louis_to I move that we adjourn
CorNouws I'm glad that we (as far a present here) agreed on this and that is was so easy ;-)
louis_to :-)
CorNouws To be continued ...
louis_to thanks, CorNouws!
louis_to meeting adjourned, thanks all
</pre>

Marketing/OOoInternship

2009-05-14T19:56:06Z

LouisSuarez: /* The programm */

= Preparing edition 2009 =

As follow up on the effort in the [[BugBountyProgram | past year]] here the preparations for 2009 are made.

In a first discussion on dev@OOo and dev@marketing.OOo , various ideas/issues were mentioned for better promotion and better support.

This page started with that info and will help us keeping record of ideas and tasks.

== Public Info on the programm ==
While this page is for organising stuff, people interested to join, mentor, support the programm, can go to the page [[OpenOffice.org_Internship]].

== Planning / TODO ==

* list of tasks
* find mentors
* promote the programm (starting May 29?)

== The program ==
* proposals
* solicitation of applications
* mentor/mentee pairs
** ask for mentors at project_leads@OOo
* budget for the bounties
** marketing and development budget

== Marketing ==
* promoting it on the main page (www.openoffice.org)
* add an item on contributung page (contributing.openoffice.org)
* start a twitter account and get 1000+ followers. post a link.
* post to digg
* tell a few high profile bloggers about it.
* encourage people to blog about it
* a lot of promoting and press releases
* inform writers/editors on tech news sites, like wired.com
* send notices to computer science departments at universities

== Support ==
* promote clearly how people can get support, if they need it, to make the start
* have a prominent link to the predone VirtualBox ubuntu images of cl, so the issue of getting the thing compiled would be already solved
* have some really easy bugs available for fixing to get some results

== Planning ==
* Wait till the university exam period is done

Community Council/Minutes

2009-05-14T18:16:39Z

LouisSuarez: /* irc-log */

=Minutes of Meetings=

== 2009-04-30==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===
# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Action items
## Budget
### Louis: schedule a conference call with CC members for next week regarding budget issues
### Matthias: money on account and estimates for incomes and taxes to pay
### Louis: Send estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
## SPI - update
## Trademark
### Update
## Louis, André: elections draft announcement + schedule
## L10n infrastructure
## Cor: project improvement page: further clarification
## All: project improvement page: input for content and links
## ..
# OpenOffice.org Internship
## Discussion started on contests@marketing.openoffice.org
## last time, marketing was the weekest point
## idea is that funding comes from marketing and development budget
## any suggestions / whishes from the cc at this moment
# Proposal for role of council coordinator
## see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2000 mail list]
## discussion
## to go or not to go
# Growing the project
## ...
# Guidelines for bundling extensions
:: [http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=100836 issue 100836] requests the removal of the writer2latex extension from OOo 3.1 (raised as showstopper)
:: reason was given in [http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=100744 issue 100744] as "According to our guidelines for bundling extensions we cannot bundle extensions which are not covered by the guidelines to contribute (meaning SCA)."
:: Question to the council: where are those guidelines, who approved these guidelines at what time?

=== IRC log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20090430]]

=== AI's ===

# Budget
## Louis: schedule a conference call with CC members regarding budget issues
## Matthias: more clear on situation wrt taxes to pay?
## Louis: Send and gather estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
# Trademark policy
## Do we know by now why we need/want it
# Elections
## Running ?
# L10n infrastructure
## More news from discussion?
# Project improvement page
## Cor add some content, then ping Louis to mail project leads

=== Notes ===
Important info / discussion, not coming back as AI for the nextmeeting

* SPI; info about procedures / position / possibility to improve (when we want to invest time)

=== Minutes ===

TBD

== 2009-04-09==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===
# L10n builds distribution over the network, see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?listName=discuss&msgNo=1986 Rafaella mail]
## what can we do to support
## ..
# Growing the project
## see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1999 mail list]
## discussion
## to go or not to go
# Proposal for role of council coordinator
## see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2000 mail list]
## discussion
## to go or not to go
# Guidelines for bundling extensions
:: [http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=100836 issue 100836] requests the removal of the writer2latex extension from OOo 3.1 (raised as showstopper)
:: reason was given in [http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=100744 issue 100744] as "According to our guidelines for bundling extensions we cannot bundle extensions which are not covered by the guidelines to contribute (meaning SCA)."
:: Question to the council: where are those guidelines, who approved these guidelines at what time?
# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Action items
## Budget
### Louis: schedule a conference call with CC members for next week regarding budget issues
### Matthias: money on account and estimates for incomes and taxes to pay
### Louis: Send estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
## SPI - update
## Trademark
### Louis to review with André and John trademark proposals; also to revisit the list (done)
### Update
## Louis, André: elections draft announcement + schedule
## Cor to send to CC list proposals on CC function, structure and community growth (both done)

=== log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20090409]]

=== AI's ===
# Budget
## Louis: schedule a conference call with CC members for next week regarding budget issues
## Matthias: money on account and estimates for incomes and taxes to pay
## Louis: Send estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
# SPI - update
# Trademark
## Update
# Louis, André: elections draft announcement + schedule
# L10n infrastructure
# Cor: further discussion on proposal council coordinator via mail
# Cor: project improvement page: further clarification
# All: project improvement page: input for content and links

=== Minutes ===
TBD

== 2009-03-26==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===
# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Action items
## Elections ..
## New charter - done
## Budget precedures - done
## SPI
### mails to CC list ..
### info on donations page - done
## Trademark
## Growing the project
### info on wiki
### further ideas / discussion
# (2009) Budget
## Is it possible to work with yearly spending / income sheets etc. (see irc log)
# Proposal for role of council co-ordinator
## appoint a council coordinator every 4 to 5 months, who is responsible during that time for poking the colleagues ;-) etc.
### will improve overall cc-performance
### will help to share the feeling of really being part of it, of joined responsibility
# L10n builds distribution over the network, see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?listName=discuss&msgNo=1986 Rafaella mail]

=== log ===
* [[Community Council Log 20090326]]

=== AI's ===
Action items
# Budget
## Louis: schedule a conference call with CC members for next week regarding budget issues
## Matthias: money on account and estimates for incomes and taxes to pay
## Louis: Send estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
# SPI - update
# Trademark
## Louis to review with André and John trademark proposals; also to revisit the list (done)
## Update
# Louis, André: elections draft announcement + schedule
# Cor to send to CC list proposals on CC function, structure and community growth (both done)

=== Minutes ===
* Minutes TBD

== 2009-03-12 [[Community Council Notes 20090312]] ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===
# Minutes of previous meeting for approval and action items
# 2008 Financial Statement
# 2009 Budget
# Proposal for role of Community Co-ordinator (Cor)
# Update on Trademarks (Sophie)

=== Attendees ===
* Sophie Gautier (sophi)
* Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
* John McCreesh (jpmcc)
* Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
* André Schnabel (Thalion72)
* Stefan Taxhet (stx12)

** absent: Pavel Janik (paveljanik)
** absent: Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_)

=== Minutes ===
====New and Familiar Action Items====
* Elections: to commence this week with candidate nominations (Louis and Sophie).
*Announcements related to new charter and elections:
1. For new charter (André and John, ''completed'')
2. for nominations and election news, 3 days after the first announcement
* Trademark update (In lawyer's hands; update: Sophie, John, Louis): "in progress"
* Budget procedures clarification (John and probably others): ''in progress''
* LSP: Louis to re-send to CC list original emails related to SPI

===Summary/Minutes===
* Prior minutes were approved

===Old Action Items and actions and summary of discussion===
* André: review plebiscite on Community Council Proposal, ask the council to formally accept the proposal and publish as new version of the charter - complete - on agenda -''completed''
* John: make budget procedures more visible - ''completed''
* Sophie: prepare a short note about trademark proposal for the next meeting - complete -'' on agenda''
* Sophie: resend mail on SPI to the council list for comments - on agenda
* Louis / Matthias: get treasurers of Team OOo e.V. and SPI in contact - Action: Matthias to ping Louis for contact details - ''completed''
* Charter change (André) see email - Agreed Proposal formally accepted by Council, updated on Web, ''completed''.
Trademark (Sophie) draft_0.6 is ready, waiting comments from Marketing - Action: under legal review, ''continuing''
* Budget (Cor) we intended to decide on the budget for 2009. Is info available? Martin said this was scheduled for March.
* Budget (Cor) Proposal for clear routing of funding request: see email. Agreed. Action - Cor --''completed''
* Budget (Cor) Proposal to ask the l10n-team at Sun, if new hardware is badly needed see mail. Action Stefan to see if we can improve quality of service by spending CC budget on infrastructure: ''completed'':
** ST spoke with Rafallea Branconi and she "feels comfortable with the current setup with 2 pootle servers.'we will monitor these more closely to see whether they are as reliable as we need it. Sophie argued that language partition is inefficient and that we should partition by region instead. ''Discussion to continue''
* Budget (Sophie) SPI Info needed see mail – Action: Louis/Sophie contacted SPI and Louis is sending MHU notifications of donations; link to SPI repository on donation page (http://contributing.openoffice.org/donate.html). L/S attended last Board meeting as observers and will participate more actively to run for office. (Why SPI? Because makes it easier for US residents to pay via cheque or credit card.)
* Growing the project (Cor) see mail Action Cor to put on the wiki- completed: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Project_Improvements : ''Discussions to be conducted on list'' '''Action remaining: Louis to re-send to CC list original emails'''.
* This year's GSoC (John) Action Stefan to see if we are likely to be accepted- ''discussed''
* Proposals for OOoCon and the Community consultation process (John). John stated that after discussions on the lists, the Marketing Project had decided to change the process to award OOoCon one year in advance. This would give teams more time to prepare and to allow them to learn from the previous team. This means this year the MP will be awarding OOoCon 09 and 10, then next year OOoCon 11, etc. As time was short, John agreed to continue this conversation on the CC list. Action John--''completed''

== 2009-02-19 (IRC) ==

===Attendees===
* Sophie Gautier (sophi)
* Pavel Janik (paveljanik)
* Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_)
* Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
* John McCreesh (jpmcc)
* Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
* André Schnabel (Thalion72)
* Stefan Taxhet (stx12)

* missing:
** Louis Suarez-Potts (absent)

===Minutes===
16:45 Meeting opened
# Minutes of previous meeting - approved
# Action items
## André: review plebiscite on Community Council Proposal, ask the council to formally accept the proposal and publish as new version of the charter - complete - ''on agenda''
## John: make budget procedures more visible - ''complete''
## Cor: draft a proposal for a more clear workflow - ''on agenda''
## Sophie: prepare a short note about trademark proposal for the next meeting - complete - ''on agenda''
## Sophie: resend mail on SPI to the council list for comments - ''on agenda''
## Louis / Matthias: get treasurers of Team OOo e.V. and SPI in contact - '''Action''': Matthias to ping Louis for contact details
# Charter change (André) [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1944 see email] - '''Agreed''' Proposal formally accepted by Council
# Trademark (Sophie) draft_0.6 is ready, waiting comments from Marketing - '''Action''': John to review
# Budget (Cor) we intended to decide on the budget for 2009. Is info available? Martin said this was scheduled for March.
# Budget (Cor) Proposal for clear routing of funding request: [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1923 see email]. '''Agreed'''. '''Action''' - Cor to add to wiki
# Budget (Cor) Proposal to ask the l10n-team at Sun, if new hardware is badly needed [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1843 see mail]. '''Action''' Stefan to see if we can improve quality of service by spending CC budget on infrastructure
# Budget (Sophie) SPI Info needed [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1854 see mail] - already discussed
# Growing the project (Cor) [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1946 see mail] '''Action''' Cor to put on the wiki
# This year's [http://code.google.com/opensource/gsoc/2009/faqs.html GSoC] (John) '''Action''' Stefan to see if we are likely to be accepted
# [http://marketing.openoffice.org/ooocon2009/cfl/index.html Proposals for OOoCon] and the Community consultation process (John). John stated that after discussions on the lists, the Marketing Project had decided to change the process to award OOoCon one year in advance. This would give teams more time to prepare and to allow them to learn from the previous team. This means this year the MP will be awarding OOoCon 09 and 10, then next year OOoCon 11, etc. As time was short, John agreed to continue this conversation on the CC list. '''Action''' John
# AOB - none
17:49 UTC Meeting closed

==2009-01-22 (IRC)==

===Attendees===
* Sophie Gautier (sophi)
* Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_)
* Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
* Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
* André Schnabel (Thalion72)
* Stefan Taxhet (stx12)

* missing:
** Louis Suarez-Potts (excused)
** Pavel Janik

===New Action Items===

* André: review plebiscite on Community Council Proposal, ask the council to formally accept the proposal and publish as new version of the charter

* John: make budget procedures more visible
* Cor: draft a proposal for a more clear workflow

* Sophie: prepare a short note about trademark proposal for the next meeting

* Sophie: resend mail on SPI to the council list for comments
* Louis / Matthias: get treasurers of Team OOo e.V. and SPI in contact

===Agenda===

# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Approval of provisional budgets for 2009
# Endorsement of "Developer's Manifesto 2009"
# AOB

===Minutes===

* budget holders can start with the same budgets as for 2008. Budgets for 2009 will be reviewed end of Feb. (after Team OOo e.V. finished finanzial review, budged holders are asked to prepare a more detailed budget plan, if possible)

* a "Developer's Manifesto 2009" will be published on the OOo website, as porposed on the [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1922 council mailing list]

* Other business
** the new Charter Proposal has passed all steps that are necessary to become final. The results of the plebiscite need to be reviewed and the proposal needs to be published at the council website as new version of the charter.
:: AI for André: review plebiscite, ask the council to formally accept the proposal and publish as new version of the charter

:* André suggested to move the budget and funding procedures to the council website. Proposal was rejected, as the procedure is likely to be reworked.
:: AI for John: make budget procedures more visible
:: AI for Cor: draft a proposal for a more clear workflow

:* CorNouws asked what the status of the trademark proposal is
:: AI for Sophie: prepare a short note about trademark proposal for the next meeting

:* Sophie asked for more information about SPI
:: AI for Sophie: resend mail on SPI to the council list for comments
:: AI for Louis / Matthias: get treasurers of Team OOo e.V. and SPI in contact

=== Log ===
[[Community Council Log 20092201]]

== OLDER MEETINGS ... 2008 and before ==
See the next page:
[[Community_Council/Minutes_2008_and_older]]

Community Council Log 20090430

2009-05-14T18:14:46Z

LouisSuarez: IRC Log Community Council meeting 2009-04-30

== IRC Log of Community Council Meeting 2009-04-30 ==

'''Attendees'''

* Sophie Gautier (sophi)
* Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_1, too)
* Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
* Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
* André Schnabel (Thalion72)
* Pavel Janik (paveljanik)
* Louis Suárez-Potts (louis_to)

<pre>
14:43:46 CorNouws André will join soon - shall we start?
14:44:15 louis_to yes.
14:44:21 mhu yes
14:44:24 jpmcc CorNouws: thanks for the phone call :-)
14:44:44 louis_to shall go down the list?
14:44:51 louis_to 1. approval of prior minutes
14:45:24 CorNouws nothing to aprove, as far as I see ..
14:45:42 louis_to ?
14:45:44 louis_to oops.
14:45:50 louis_to sorry,
14:45:56 CorNouws We can take the AI's
14:46:00 louis_to sees that the minutes and irc are in my queue
14:46:10 louis_to agreed
14:46:38 CorNouws expects Louis to have a longggg que
14:46:42 louis_to #1: budget call
14:46:48 louis_to I meant my outmail q.
14:47:08 CorNouws louis_to: :-)
14:47:16 louis_to I'll send out new doodle nag
14:47:24 *** Thalion72 (n=sca@p3EE2A713.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined the channel
14:47:28 CorNouws Thanks
14:47:30 louis_to I recieved only 2 responses to the first effort
14:47:37 louis_to and despite a nag, nothing
14:47:41 louis_to so, will send out new one
14:47:46 louis_to hello André
14:47:48 CorNouws Hi André, Louis just announcing a new request for special budget meeting
14:47:48 louis_to we just started
14:47:58 Thalion72 Hi .. sorry for being late and thanks to Cor for calling
14:48:14 louis_to #2: Matthias: money on account and estimates for incomes and taxes to pay
14:48:20 louis_to any update?
14:48:35 CorNouws Thalion72: jpmcc: don't tell them I call you, now the others never will ginve me their phone nrs!
14:48:39 mhu yep, working with Martin on taxes ...
14:49:02 louis_to okay... any idea of delivery date?
14:49:07 mhu ...will send amount of money to members privately, but not publicly
14:49:32 _Nesshof_1 waiting for the tax office to call :-/
14:49:43 louis_to ugh. (/me notes that today is tax day in canada0
14:49:57 _Nesshof_1 louis_to: in Germany as well
14:50:00 CorNouws mhu: ok for me - look forward to the info
14:50:01 louis_to okay, we'll periodically nag on this
14:50:02 mhu ...found my budget spreadsheet cited and linked in some random blog / online article, and dont like that
14:50:03 louis_to :-)
14:50:16 louis_to #3: Send estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
14:50:21 louis_to okay, I've been stymied here
14:50:55 CorNouws louis_to: your risk as well, that money runs out ..
14:51:00 louis_to There are several I think we ought to attend, such as Oscon, but I have no real way of estimating costs associated with attending/participating there, except in the roughest way
14:51:16 mhu ...will discuss with you in our budget call, if you so like.
14:51:16 louis_to I am less concerned about that.
14:51:21 louis_to please, let's
14:51:46 louis_to for now, I'll ask that we please propose meaningful events coming up and use the wiki once upon a time created for thiis
14:51:52 louis_to and if it is not there now, to create a new one....
14:52:07 mhu was still talking about AI #2 ... and dont wants to irritate anyone
14:52:10 louis_to AI: louis to send to project leads notice
14:52:11 louis_to ah
14:52:36 louis_to notes he's sent such a notice before... but this time with $ there ought to be a difference
14:52:59 louis_to 2: SPI: there is no meaningful update, but am curious what kind of update is wanted here?
14:53:18 CorNouws how much money will come to us and how ??
14:53:31 louis_to we have already dealt with that
14:53:37 CorNouws see log of previous meeting, I guess
14:53:37 sophi CorNouws: depends on donators :)
14:53:38 louis_to it's just that we have little view
14:53:47 louis_to yes.
14:53:51 louis_to here is the situation
14:54:08 mhu have not attempted an exact summary, but its somewhere around 2K - 3K total so far
14:54:09 louis_to the SPI treasurer is a nice guy and he alone has full view of $
14:54:24 louis_to we can ask him for status reports
14:54:29 louis_to but cannot do it ourselves
14:54:41 louis_to so, we can periodically query the treasurer
14:54:51 louis_to meanwhile, I relay new donation notices to Matthias
14:55:02 louis_to to get money, we ask the treasurer for it
14:55:04 mhu we have to manually count notification emails per donation
14:55:08 louis_to yes.
14:55:15 CorNouws louis_to: mhu: very clear, thanks
14:55:33 louis_to well, it's clear but it's also to me unsatisfactory
14:55:50 CorNouws louis_to: but not much we can do at it?
14:55:53 louis_to however, the treasurer takes the work out of taxes, tabulation, accounting, so that we just ask for money
14:56:10 louis_to until we get on the board and try to change rules (or maybe before then), not really
14:56:26 louis_to the situation has plusses and minusses
14:56:50 louis_to we could develop the marketing ngo, as long discussed (this would not hold IP)
14:56:59 louis_to and that would give us more control--and more work
14:57:06 CorNouws OK for me for now ... few months agoo we knew close to nothing, IIRC
14:57:29 louis_to correct. We now at least we know close to nothing ;-)
14:57:41 louis_to #3: trademark: updates?
14:57:54 Thalion72 well .. we know what to do, if we want to know more
14:58:05 louis_to Thalion72: yes. we ping the treasurer
14:58:17 louis_to treasurer at spi
14:58:33 sophi louis_to: entering a process and/or a group is not so easy, it means time also
14:58:59 sophi louis_to: I mean for people already in the group to know you :)
14:59:22 louis_to you refer to working wiht SPI? Yes, indeed. and it is a group of foss opinionated people
14:59:34 *** paveljanik (n=Pavel@unaffiliated/paveljanik) has joined the channel
14:59:37 paveljanik Hi
14:59:39 louis_to I think I know nearly all of them, and you, sophi, have been in the game longer than I, so ...
14:59:41 louis_to hi paveljanik
14:59:43 paveljanik Sorry for being late.
14:59:44 louis_to we are here:
14:59:49 louis_to http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Agenda#Next_regular_meeting:_April_30_2009
14:59:53 sophi louis_to: yes, so not so easy to change all in one time
14:59:59 louis_to Cor is shepherding us along :-)
15:00:14 louis_to so, to # 3, Trademark: updates?
15:00:23 CorNouws _Nesshof_1: started a new discussion on the trademark, with Bernard,isn't it?
15:00:40 louis_to _Nesshof_: would you want to summarize?
15:00:48 Thalion72 CorNouws: not really a new discussion with Bernhard
15:01:04 CorNouws Thalion72: Sorry new = 'new'
15:01:17 CorNouws Thalion72: But what is your take on it?
15:01:28 Thalion72 just the question, what the purpose of the TM-policy is .. what was more or less unanswered
15:01:37 sophi for the moment trademarks are stalled because we don't know how to qualify our product
15:01:53 _Nesshof_1 sophi: :-(
15:01:56 CorNouws So only themost basical thing in this subject ;-)
15:02:45 CorNouws tooling was suggested, investigated and failed to pass - too complicated
15:03:03 CorNouws what wat the other option, could we continue at that point again?
15:03:12 _Nesshof_1 for trademark, I really would like to know which is the problem we would like to adress
15:03:45 sophi _Nesshof_1: my last answer on the list answers your question
15:04:19 *** _Nesshof_ has quit IRC ("Leaving.")
15:05:08 CorNouws sophi: 21-4-09 10:21 ?
15:05:40 louis_to is confused and returns to _Nesshof_1's point
15:05:55 sophi CorNouws: yes
15:05:57 louis_to what are the problems?
15:05:58 _Nesshof_1 sophi: not really, at least I don't understand the answer
15:06:40 CorNouws _Nesshof_1: sophi: May I propose that we make this point, only this one, very clear before next cc meeting?
15:06:42 sophi _Nesshof_1: you said "My take on that would be that the builds that get approved by the OOo QA > can be called then OpenOffice.org. "
15:06:49 CorNouws looks as a majog gain to me.
15:07:01 CorNouws llooks as a major gain to me.
15:07:20 Thalion72 sophi: this is a suggestion "how to define what is OOo" - to the answer to the question "why do we need a tm-policy"
15:07:44 sophi Thalion72: my question : But how a companies will get this approval? For example my company is distributing modified versions of OOo for their customers and different versions for each customer. Some are binaries+configurations others are patched versions needing to build them from sources. >>>>
15:08:12 Thalion72 sophi: still no answer to "why do we need a tm-policy"
15:08:37 CorNouws May I suggest that we make this point, only this one, very clear before next cc meeting?
15:08:53 CorNouws Just because I think we need to think about it, more than time now allows us to do
15:09:15 sophi I'm requested from several companies/project if they are allowed use the name+logo if they modify it, I have no answer but ask on the marketing list, I know they don't do it
15:09:32 Thalion72 CorNouws: I'd like to add - if we cannot work out this point, we should stop all work on tm policy
15:09:51 CorNouws Thalion72: Obviously...
15:10:00 *** _Nesshof_ (n=martin@p4FDE3FAA.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined the channel
15:10:05 CorNouws So the conclusion should be: we have to fine out ??
15:10:11 Thalion72 sophi: allow them to use the name and logo.
15:10:52 CorNouws sophi: Yes, as long as there is no 'policy' that is our policy ;-)
15:10:59 sophi Thalion72: ah, yes, why not, if we can't define our product, that mean that we do not have a product finally
15:11:30 CorNouws :-D Enough on this point, AFAIAC - move on?
15:11:37 Thalion72 CorNouws: +1
15:11:54 _Nesshof_1 still is unsatisfied
15:12:07 CorNouws joins Martin
15:12:33 CorNouws OK elections then.
15:12:46 CorNouws I like John's statement in the mail about that
15:13:42 Thalion72 Ok .. for the elections - I'll do a call for help tomorrow (to find observers)
15:14:03 louis_to thanks
15:14:10 louis_to but, Thalion72: it's may day tomorrow
15:14:18 Thalion72 I'd like to have Stefan as one of the observers (he needs to setup the server anyway, so we need his help)
15:14:20 louis_to there is a very good chance that many peoiple will be absent
15:14:42 Thalion72 louis_to: Mail is a medium that does not vanish the other day
15:15:23 sophi Thalion72: depends of the number of mail per day ;-)
15:15:27 mhu Thalion72: if I can help in any way, please say so, and I try what I can
15:15:38 louis_to Thalion72: I am aware of that. just wanted to alert you that many will have huge inboxes on Monday or so
15:16:08 Thalion72 louis_to: those people would be wrong candidates for observers anyway ;)
15:16:31 sophi Thalion72: +1 :)
15:16:41 Thalion72 people who tned to ignore mails are no good candidates to observe a process that is organized via mail
15:17:02 louis_to agreed. I have no argument against proceeding on mayday; my point was informative.
15:17:15 Thalion72 louis_to: ok :)
15:17:43 Thalion72 mhu: maybe poke some project leads to check the list of project leads
15:17:56 mhu okay, will do
15:18:20 Thalion72 if all goes well, we might announce elections end of next week ... or do you see conflicts with 3.1 release?
15:18:30 louis_to Thalion72: I do not
15:18:31 Thalion72 (imho this is not related)
15:18:48 louis_to there is enough news around OOo that any more won't really affect things, I would (cynically) guess
15:19:25 louis_to and I think that having elections would be good....
15:19:35 Thalion72 :) +1
15:19:42 jpmcc +1
15:19:45 louis_to +1
15:19:46 Thalion72 ok .. other questions to the elections?
15:19:58 louis_to Thalion72: you have my thanks.
15:20:15 louis_to and if I see you again soon, as much beer :-)
15:20:23 CorNouws Thalion72: no thanks, all clear now (after reading the charter again) and thanks from me as well
15:20:41 sophi Thalion72: yes, thanks :)
15:21:10 louis_to shall we move on to next item?
15:21:16 Thalion72 +1
15:21:20 sophi louis_to: yes please
15:21:27 louis_to that may require STX!12
15:21:44 louis_to : l10n infrastructure
15:21:55 louis_to can _Nesshof_ or MHU or someone else, (sophi?) speak to it?
15:22:05 CorNouws Yes, he wrote an update in hismail
15:22:07 CorNouws A discussion of the handling of l10n builds has been started at dev@l10n but has not yet come to a general conclusion. But the urgent need for the 2 languages sh, sr have been resolved.
15:22:07 mhu but stx12 did send some status ?
15:22:28 louis_to yes, CorNouws: relayed it just now
15:22:31 CorNouws CorNouws: I qouted Stefans mail, just to explain
15:22:46 CorNouws louis_to: indeed ;-)
15:23:10 CorNouws OK, then next item?
15:23:17 louis_to http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2050
15:23:23 Thalion72 mhu: there are some ideas at the l10n list .. but nothing really agreed yet
15:23:32 louis_to next item: Cor: project improvement page: further clarification
15:24:11 CorNouws Yes, I used the discussion fromprevious meeting to better understand the questions ..
15:24:16 CorNouws and changed a bit on the wiki
15:24:45 louis_to CorNouws: how so?
15:24:55 louis_to looks for url of wiki....
15:24:58 CorNouws And I saw some great (sort of new) issues on the dev-list , that are good to mention on the page
15:25:12 CorNouws i.e. modularisation and such
15:25:19 CorNouws http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Project_Improvements
15:25:28 louis_to then you may wish to look at our to-dos....
15:25:43 louis_to modularisation has long been a desiderata, along with new architecture in general
15:25:45 CorNouws it is linke from the cc wiki main page - the way I find it as well
15:25:48 louis_to thanks
15:26:10 sophi CorNouws: I won't have time before june to add links on explanation pages for the items I've added, but will do
15:26:16 CorNouws louis_to: I know, but now the process is visible and people can join, work on it together
15:26:28 CorNouws sophi: Thanks.
15:26:43 CorNouws I'll put some links on it next weeks ..
15:27:01 CorNouws can then someone else ask on projectleads@ for additional info?
15:27:08 louis_to yes
15:27:19 CorNouws louis_to: thanks.
15:27:24 mhu as Kay wrote, this Modularization is related to ESC discussions / dashboard
15:27:33 sophi CorNouws: thanks to you
15:27:34 louis_to but what precisely do you want in the new info?
15:27:48 louis_to general: improvement? or specific topics, categories?
15:27:55 *** _Nesshof_ has quit IRC (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
15:28:15 _Nesshof_1 feels alone
15:28:21 louis_to :-)
15:28:30 CorNouws louis_to: anything we think is worth mentioning, that people might want or need to know, to have a good impression of the project ..
15:28:30 mhu :-)
15:28:44 louis_to okay.
15:29:00 CorNouws If no one has a remark / question now ...
15:29:21 louis_to will send out project leads note ...
15:29:45 louis_to OOo Internship:
15:29:54 CorNouws louis_to: can you wait till I ping you, cause I think it is clearer if somelinks are in place first
15:30:01 louis_to CorNouws: yes
15:30:07 CorNouws louis_to: thanks
15:30:24 louis_to I think the internship item needs to be tabled for now
15:30:38 CorNouws 3.1 - 3.3 are informative
15:30:38 louis_to and would suggest we move on to "Proposal for role of .. coordinator"
15:30:49 CorNouws louis_to: ok for me
15:31:05 louis_to CorNouws: yes. We are still working on this issue, however, and it depends to a degree on Stefan...
15:31:11 louis_to So, #4: coordinator
15:31:14 sophi louis_to: ok for me too
15:31:19 louis_to I think we all voted on this, no? I voted late
15:31:21 Thalion72 ok to move on (no questions to the internship atm)
15:31:33 louis_to and all voted +1
15:31:41 _Nesshof_1 +1
15:31:52 paveljanik now :-)
15:32:04 louis_to I would thus propose that we go with the coordinator idea.
15:32:16 louis_to are there any objections to it?
15:32:30 sophi louis_to: not from me
15:32:43 CorNouws nor from me :-)
15:32:58 Thalion72 no objection but one question: who to assign the role?
15:33:02 sophi louis_to: I didn't vote on Terry but I do now :)
15:33:24 jpmcc Are we happy to bring in someone not on the cc to do the job? I'm ok with it...
15:33:30 louis_to :-)
15:33:36 CorNouws sophi: hmm, bit confused
15:33:36 Thalion72 I'm ok with this as well
15:33:40 _Nesshof_1 jpmcc: +1
15:33:49 louis_to jpmcc: would that require a re-write of the charter?
15:33:58 sophi CorNouws: why?
15:33:59 louis_to as these meetings are closed, I thought
15:34:11 _Nesshof_1 louis_to: I don't think so
15:34:18 CorNouws I thought the discussion with Terri was that she has to be on the council first?
15:34:20 _Nesshof_1 as there is no power to vote
15:34:33 louis_to however, we had discussions bfore about "observers"
15:34:49 louis_to and non-voting persons, and that was not approved before....
15:34:52 jpmcc I think the meetings are closed ... but the minutes an AIs are public, so the co-ordinator should be able to work from those?
15:35:15 CorNouws jpmcc: does not sound so logic ... and what about 4 to 5 months?
15:35:19 mhu agrees with John
15:36:00 CorNouws but I do not object, if we want Terri to help in this way, of course.
15:36:01 louis_to proposal: that we grant the Coordinator the right and obligation to attend CC meetings to take notes, derive minutes, etc. but that the Coordinator shall not be construed to have voting powers
15:36:14 louis_to notes that Terri may have been joking
15:36:28 louis_to please indicate vote on proposal and discuss, of course, if needed
15:36:34 CorNouws doesn't think so
15:37:09 mhu thinks Terri is a longtime observer
15:37:18 jpmcc +1
15:37:18 louis_to please, let's focus on the proposal...
15:37:21 louis_to thx
15:37:46 mhu +1 (meaning: okay, why not)
15:37:50 CorNouws louis_to: what you propose is ok for the time that Terri,, as non cc member is coordiantor
15:37:59 CorNouws not forthe period therafter, I guess
15:38:14 louis_to "terri" or any other person who occupies the Coordinator role
15:38:28 Thalion72 CorNouws: I don't see, why this should be bound to "terri"
15:38:36 louis_to indeed
15:38:38 CorNouws If that person is not a cc member...
15:38:49 CorNouws but one of the ideas behind the proposal was ...
15:38:58 CorNouws that being couordiantord and cc member
15:39:13 CorNouws enhances the invilved of all the individual members ... :-(
15:39:33 mhu would prefer someone like Cor being the Coordinator, he did a good job already
15:39:43 louis_to then you specify that the Coordinator must be a CC member?
15:39:56 louis_to that's fine with me... I just want to identify the precise point
15:40:01 mhu but if the only alternative is Terri, I'd go for Terri
15:40:04 CorNouws mhu: thanks, but still the idea, on which we agreed, says: 4 to 5 months :-)
15:40:18 louis_to let's us first resolve:
15:40:24 CorNouws louis_to: pls read what you voted for !
15:40:24 louis_to Must the Coordinator be a CC member
15:40:30 louis_to (let us not bring in Terri, please)
15:40:54 louis_to Cor; I am trying to be flexible here
15:41:07 CorNouws louis_to: why?
15:41:17 CorNouws we just voted for something
15:41:21 mhu has a hard limit of 4 minutes remaining ... dinner is waiting ... getting cold
15:41:23 CorNouws and before the first step
15:41:28 CorNouws leave the idea ???
15:41:39 jpmcc If the CC members had been good at organising the,selves, we would not be having this conversation. So +1 to bring someone in who can help us :)
15:42:00 CorNouws mhu may buy a microwave fromthe cc budget ;-)
15:42:00 sophi the one who wants to do the job should have it being a CC member or not
15:42:20 CorNouws sophi: what does the proposal, you agreed with, say?
15:42:30 louis_to I would then ask that we return to the mail list and table the vote until next meeting, as we are not --NOT-- in agreement as to whether the Coordinator shall be a CC member
15:43:00 louis_to we must resolve that point. We voted all of us that it be a CC member but now are deviating
15:43:03 sophi CorNouws: having a coordinator for the meeting, I didn't vote on the last one I guess :)
15:43:07 CorNouws Yes, and then not only a coordinator who pokes us, but also helpes reading??
15:43:09 louis_to therefore, we need to return to that issue
15:43:35 Thalion72 louis_to: well ... CorNouws is right. we all voted on his proposal and this includes that "he/she is chosen from the council members"
15:43:38 louis_to I am therefore tabling that item and asking we discuss ithat issue on the list
15:43:41 CorNouws louis_to: OK to get back to the list, to clear this up, of course
15:43:44 louis_to yes.
15:44:01 louis_to Thalion72: I am acknowledging CorNouws's point
15:44:25 louis_to Do we wish to move on to the next items?
15:44:36 louis_to I would ask that we skip #5
15:44:57 Thalion72 ok .. but I get the impression that council votes to not count a pence
15:45:09 louis_to Thalion72?
15:45:11 CorNouws louis_to: Yes, I think that is not in the rigth place - done already with the AI's
15:45:47 CorNouws Thalion72: (Maybe you look at an older version of the agenda?)
15:45:50 louis_to then I would ask that we have a quick roundtable (and Thalion72: can explain what he meant...louis is puzzled)
15:46:17 CorNouws Only item left is 6: Guidelines for bundling extensions
15:46:23 louis_to yes.
15:46:26 louis_to if we skip #5
15:46:53 louis_to So: do we wish to go on to #6?
15:46:58 jpmcc +1
15:47:01 louis_to 1. Guidelines for bundling extensions
15:47:01 louis_to issue 100836 requests the removal of the writer2latex extension from OOo 3.1 (raised as showstopper)
15:47:01 louis_to reason was given in issue 100744 as "According to our guidelines for bundling extensions we cannot bundle extensions which are not covered by the guidelines to contribute (meaning SCA)."
15:47:01 louis_to Question to the council: where are those guidelines, who approved these guidelines at what time?
15:47:14 louis_to http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=100836
15:47:21 louis_to http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=100744
15:47:23 Thalion72 as I put this to the agenda for the last meeting ...
15:47:55 _Nesshof_1 Thalion72: I think we resolved this issue last meeting
15:48:04 _Nesshof_1 this was a mistake of min
15:48:07 Thalion72 this is resolved for me, as martin answered at the releases list
15:48:10 sophi Thalion72: but from what I remember, Martin explained what he meant
15:48:16 Thalion72 yes
15:48:34 _Nesshof_1 we don't have yet guidelines for bundling extensions
15:48:39 _Nesshof_1 but working on that
15:49:15 louis_to _Nesshof_1: do we have a due date, or guess?
15:49:24 louis_to as this issue has been around since at least Beijing
15:49:27 CorNouws http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/ESC/Criteria_for_bundling_extensions
15:49:32 louis_to thanks
15:49:54 Thalion72 Im fine with this - my point was just the false reference to "the agreed guidelines"
15:50:02 sophi louis_to: at least since SCA ;-)
15:50:15 louis_to :-)
15:50:23 _Nesshof_1 I think we will resolve this issue before the next release
15:50:27 _Nesshof_1 July or so
15:50:33 sophi _Nesshof_1: great, thanks
15:50:37 louis_to yes.
15:50:47 louis_to do we have time for a quick roundtable?
15:51:00 louis_to it can also be done on the mail list
15:51:09 _Nesshof_1 yes, fyi: I will announce in next release status meeting ...
15:51:10 louis_to but I thought it useful to introduce that idea to us
15:51:34 _Nesshof_1 ... that I will step back from my active role in this meeting ..
15:51:48 _Nesshof_1 ... to a more passive role in that meeting ...
15:52:14 louis_to okay...
15:52:21 _Nesshof_1 martin damboldt agreed to take over the active, driving part of that meeting ...
15:52:52 louis_to well, if no one is interested in volunteering roundtable now, please, if you can, send an update of what you are doing (and also commiunity you may speak for) to the council list before next meeting.
15:52:57 _Nesshof_1 but of course I still take responsible of the result of that meeting towards CC
15:53:19 louis_to is there any new business for this meeting?
15:53:30 CorNouws _Nesshof_1: thanks for what you did, and for taking care to handle it over to Martin_3
15:53:47 CorNouws louis_to: not that I am aware of..
15:53:53 _Nesshof_1 I still will be the stand in for martin d.
15:54:00 louis_to please send in an update, then.
15:54:10 louis_to and if no objections, I would like to call the meeting adjourned
</pre>

Community Council Log 20090409

2009-04-16T04:33:53Z

LouisSuarez: /* IRC Log of Community Council Meeting 2009-04-09 */

== IRC Log of Community Council Meeting 2009-04-09 ==

'''Attendees'''

* Sophie Gautier (sophi)
* Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_)
* Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
* Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
* André Schnabel (Thalion72)
* Stefan Taxhet (stx12)
* Pavel Janik (paveljanik) (came on scene at end)
* Louis Suárez-Potts (louis_to)

<pre>

irc.freenode.net #OOocouncil 14:29:47 4/9/09

14:29:47 *** You have joined the channel

Session commences

14:36:52 louis_to agenda is here:

14:36:54 louis_to http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Agenda

14:37:13 louis_to The minutes (thanks!) are listed there

14:37:24 louis_to do we agree with last week's?

14:38:05 CorNouws I see no minutes .. and besides that: The agenda has another order ...

14:38:13 louis_to ?

14:38:37 louis_to ah. I am going to the action items as relevant minutes; do we agree with those AIs?

14:38:37 CorNouws http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Minutes#Minutes

14:38:55 CorNouws http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Agenda#Next_regular_meeting:_April_9th_2009

14:39:16 louis_to Cor: do you want to work with the order established by the agenda? that contravenes normal procedure, to approve history first, then proceed on to new things

14:39:48 CorNouws Yes pls as on the wiki - we talked about that 2 wks agoo - noreason for me to do it differten now..

14:39:57 Thalion72 louis_to: Cor is right, we agreed last time to put Rafaella's requeston top

14:39:58 louis_to very well

14:40:01 louis_to no problem

14:40:08 CorNouws thanks ;-)

14:40:14 louis_to so:

14:40:15 louis_to L10n builds distribution over the network, see Rafaella mail

14:40:15 louis_to 1. what can we do to support

14:40:15 louis_to 2. ..

14:40:15 sophi thanks :)

14:40:23 Thalion72 CorNouws: and sorry for changing the order today ;)

14:40:35 louis_to her mail is: http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2000

14:40:51 louis_to key point:

14:40:51 louis_to The idea:

14:40:51 louis_to - appoint a council coordinator every 4 to 5 months, who is

14:40:51 louis_to responsible during that time for poking the colleagues ;-) etc.

14:40:51 louis_to Expected:

14:40:51 louis_to - will improve overall cc-performance

14:40:51 louis_to - will help to share the feeling of really being part of

14:40:51 louis_to it, of joined responsibility

14:40:57 sophi Thalion72: my fault, I promized and didn't managed

14:40:57 CorNouws Thalion72: (OK, thought it was because of wiki's numberng behaviour ??)

14:41:24 Thalion72 louis_to: oops .. you mixed upt the topics

14:41:25 louis_to oops sorry, wrong url

14:41:27 louis_to yesp

14:41:38 louis_to http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?listName=discuss&msgNo=1986

14:41:52 louis_to curses cut and paste and multitasking

14:42:22 louis_to RB : I

14:42:22 louis_to want to make sure that all native-language community actively localizing

14:42:22 louis_to the product are able to follow this process and do not have to find

14:42:22 louis_to workarounds because of an issue with the OOo distribution infrastructure.

14:43:12 sophi we miss space to upload all the languages and language packs

14:43:23 louis_to questions: what sort of infrastructure is she speaking of? is it just storage space?

14:43:39 Thalion72 maybe stx12 can tell more?

14:43:46 CorNouws And IMO also reliability ..

14:44:09 sophi yes, see : It seems that the space is not sufficient to distribute such a large number of languages. I am - of course - not talking about language packs but of bull binaries.

14:44:16 CorNouws Both André and others had trouble with data loss because of hardware probs ..

14:44:51 Thalion72 CorNouws: hmm ... that was an issue at the pootle server and we got information that this has been resolved

14:44:57 sophi and we plane to may be change the criteria to have binaries for more languages

14:44:59 stx12 CorNouws, you are talking about pootle. rafaella talks about distribution of binaries

14:45:14 Thalion72 The current problem is about bulding and distributing localized test versions (RCs)

14:45:43 stx12 i think the requirements rafaella describes are easy to agree with. together with the constraints of the network this means a bit of discipline and structure.

14:45:46 CorNouws stx12: Thalion72: Sorry for mixing up, for me thos ere both l10n-support issues ;-)

14:46:15 CorNouws Thalion72: has been resolved = repaired .. but is it redundant, will data be save with a possible next crash??

14:46:21 stx12 disk space, mirror capacity and bandwidth is limited even nowadays.

14:47:04 sophi stx12: so how is it possible to have more space, mirror capacity and bandwith?

14:47:08 Thalion72 stx12: but if i get you right, we have enough resource but need to use them more efficiently?

14:47:29 CorNouws stx12: I remeber some council member complaining about low spending :-)

14:47:44 stx12 Thalion72: that's half of the truth

14:48:11 Thalion72 and the other half ...? ;)

14:48:14 CorNouws all: Is it necessary to work out all detaisl here, or can we say that 2, e of us sort it out next 2 wkes?

14:48:21 mhu now has finished his dinner; sorry it took some time

14:48:27 sophi if we decide to build more binaries for languages but are not able to distribute them, the discussion is dead before begining

14:48:42 stx12 use main set (~30gb), extended set (~150Gb) well and have some more space for low request data.

14:48:56 CorNouws (repeat): all: Is it necessary to work out all detailsl here, or can we say that 2, 3 of us sort it out next 2 wkes?

14:49:17 stx12 sophi: that's correct - but I was surprised by rafaella "was told...".

14:50:10 stx12 CorNouws: that's a good approach; i think we agreed earlier that we will drive things and are happy about reviewing proposals.

14:50:15 sophi stx12: the discussion was on mirror list if I remember well, some languages are available on extended and orther on stable if I'm right, where every body would like to be visible at the same level

14:50:55 Thalion72 stx12: well .. just this week we had the request from serbian team to have full installation sets of RC1

14:51:12 Thalion72 this request was denied due to lack of ressources

14:51:33 CorNouws Thalion72: resources to build or to store?

14:51:49 Thalion72 CorNouws: I don't know (seemed to me both)

14:52:00 sophi Thalion72: yes, and we should discuss the necessary % of translation being sure that the distribution can be done

14:52:03 stx12 Thalion72: which is unfortunate and not necessary. i don't think they asked for 5 platforms?

14:52:06 Thalion72 I would have to review the mails (did not follow this closely)

14:52:19 sophi stx12: for 3 plateforms

14:52:59 sophi CorNouws: they are providing a mirror, so they have even resources to store

14:53:04 stx12 sophi: ok, then i don't see the specific problem. but it's correct to rethink the distribution structure.

14:53:36 sophi stx12: ok, thanks, we can discuss this on the list

14:53:45 stx12 on which list?

14:53:52 stx12 and who is we?

14:54:21 sophi stx12: we is rafaella and l10n team, the list could be dev@l10n

14:54:22 stx12 is not a fried of passive voice like "was told that there is no space" ;-)

14:54:40 Thalion72 stx12: but this is the case

14:54:58 stx12 there are those missing that upload build and manage the master(s)

14:55:00 sophi stx12: discussing together on the list should clarify the request and the needs :)

14:55:24 louis_to I would suggest then that we finalize discussions on the list .

14:55:44 Thalion72 and first identify the actual problem

14:55:51 _Nesshof_ wonders if it is more important to distribute more languages or without and with jre build ...

14:56:05 sophi stx12: I'll send you the links to the previous discussion I remember

14:56:09 CorNouws are technical people and HR people present on that list as well??

14:56:14 stx12 or 3-5 linux builds

14:56:17 _Nesshof_ suggest to drop the without jre builds

14:56:45 stx12 CorNouws: HR? Heiner or RE = release engineering?

14:56:55 CorNouws _Nesshof_: poll the users@ list about that ;-)

14:57:17 stx12 i guess we would need joost, florian and marcus

14:57:18 CorNouws HR = human resources; i.e. do we have people to do the work

14:57:42 stx12 we have people who claim they can't do the work ;-)

14:57:46 Thalion72 marcus is at dev@l10n .. joost and florian not

14:58:41 Thalion72 I can ask Florian to join the list for a while (but he is very busy at the moment)

14:59:18 stx12 or we go the easy approach and rent a box with 1TB disk space and let joost/marcus upload everything they have...

14:59:40 sophi Thalion72: I think we should clear the exact request about space needed and what languages are available (what % of translations is needed) first on l10n then discuss with distribution

14:59:46 Thalion72 if someone checks the price .. no problem

15:00:43 stx12 and here we come to the proposal again...

15:00:44 CorNouws 1TB space, and is distribution no problem?

15:01:00 _Nesshof_ Thalion72: do we know what bandwidth we need for tht box ?

15:01:11 mhu wonders if we could consult download statistics to measure which builds could be dropped ...

15:01:24 CorNouws ... that we have seen the necessary questions here and that x + y are going to sort it out ..

15:01:35 _Nesshof_ mhu: this is not really an option

15:01:50 _Nesshof_ this would be a mainenance nightmare

15:02:00 mhu ??? you proposed to drop w/o jre builds ???

15:02:06 Thalion72 CorNouws: I could work on this in the next week (at least try to collect the requirements)

15:02:17 sophi _Nesshof_: available builds are depending on the space available, we have more builds so more space needed :)

15:02:35 stx12 i think we will need some tooling support anyway (qatrack, pootle/translation stats, ...)

15:02:47 _Nesshof_ mhu: what i don't want to see is, we don't need lang x on platform y

15:03:07 sophi stx12: yes, in fact distribution do not follow the l10n growth

15:03:10 mhu no, I also dont want that

15:03:14 _Nesshof_ for jre I can say from bouncer data: 75% of downloads are wjre downloads

15:03:36 _Nesshof_ but this is also language dependent

15:03:36 Thalion72 _Nesshof_: because thi is the default choice ;)

15:03:39 mhu so, you have already answered my question :-)

15:03:50 stx12 @_Nesshof_: and i don't want 5 linux versions for a language used by 10 people distributed to 100 mirrors

15:04:04 _Nesshof_ some l10n communities seems to prefer to promote without jre other have no problem with jre

15:04:11 Thalion72 stx12: we really need to identify the requirements first

15:04:27 louis_to stx12: we had previously (or I had) raised the idea of regional availability only for some languages

15:04:29 Thalion72 the request was about versions for testing - not final distribution

15:04:36 _Nesshof_ stx12: that a catch22

15:04:37 sophi _Nesshof_: so let ask the l10n team, they made the version they need available for distribution by Joost

15:04:57 sophi _Nesshof_: we provide the exact links to the versions

15:05:09 stx12 so, do we need 2 linux packages per language for testing ?

15:05:10 _Nesshof_ sophi: no, i don't want a language dependent table

15:05:25 sophi _Nesshof_: this is what is done already

irc.freenode.net #OOocouncil 15:05:36 4/9/09

15:05:36 *** You have joined the channel

15:06:16 _Nesshof_ sophi: language requested should mean that we deliver this language for all platforms

15:06:30 Thalion72 stx12: I don'T think we are able to identify the requierements here in this discussion

15:06:33 stx12 @_Nesshof_: no, i'm not saying that i don't want to distribute builds for a language.

15:06:48 stx12 @_Nesshof_: and this is where we disagree and what is not feasible

15:07:06 _Nesshof_ stx12: but what ?

15:08:10 sophi could we have the discussion first with l10n teams and see what is needed before stating what is possible or not?

15:08:12 stx12 but provide 1 build per platform for testing; rc's on demand

15:08:23 stx12 but provide 1 build per platform per langauge for testing; rc's on demand

15:08:31 Thalion72 stx12: simple answer: we need all the builds

15:09:00 stx12 Thalion72: you and ~10 other team - but not 120

15:09:06 Thalion72 we indeed can debate this for another two hours here ..but I'd rather discuss this in anoher round

15:09:08 louis_to Thalion72: but we do not need all the builds everywhere--?

15:09:13 stx12 Thalion72: and no - not even de, fr, ...

15:09:35 Thalion72 stx12: I disacree ;)

15:09:39 _Nesshof_ stx12: there I disagree

15:10:29 louis_to Given that we have limited time, I suggest we a) establish the prcise problem, b) some solutions, besides just more servers and c) reviisit this to conclude next meeting

15:10:48 louis_to and that we do this onlist.

15:10:53 Thalion72 louis_to: +1

15:11:09 Thalion72 leaves the question "Who on what list"

15:11:20 CorNouws Who takes care that all people that need to be involved really are present?

15:11:28 louis_to I would think here l10n

15:11:37 louis_to and I would suggest sophi

15:11:52 sophi louis_to: ok :)

15:11:55 Thalion72 I can help with this

15:11:58 CorNouws +1

15:12:01 louis_to it seems to me that _Nesshof_ and stx12 would have to be involved, Thalion72, too :-)

15:12:15 louis_to thanks, sophi

15:12:19 louis_to thanks Thalion72

15:13:11 Thalion72 plus Joost, Florian, HR

15:14:00 Thalion72 next Agenda item?

15:14:30 sophi 2. Growing the project

15:14:58 louis_to AI, Sophie and Andre, with Joost, Florian, HR, possibly Stefan T. and Martin H. to address l10n sever issue on l10n list, present to CC for discussion next meeting (add to agenda) recommendations

15:15:05 louis_to yes, next item on agena

15:15:38 CorNouws Remeber not to forget reliabillity

15:15:57 louis_to ?

15:16:12 louis_to CorNouws: I am not sure what you mean

15:16:25 CorNouws louis_to: (20:46:19) CorNouws

15:16:35 louis_to Item 2: Growing the project, as sophi stated: Growing the project

15:16:35 louis_to 1. see mail list

15:16:35 louis_to 2. discussion

15:16:35 louis_to 3. to go or not to go

15:17:12 louis_to See (this time): http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2000

15:18:27 sophi CorNouws: do I understand well that you need detail pages linked to the items on what is needed and proposed to further the project?

15:18:55 CorNouws sophi: as detail in working out, yes

15:19:08 CorNouws but that is probably a next step

15:19:33 mhu louis_to: the link above is "cc coordinator" but not "growing the project ?

15:19:44 sophi CorNouws: ok, thanks

15:19:58 CorNouws what do people find of the idea?

15:20:13 CorNouws mhu: Yes, Louis already said he needs a course ;-)

15:20:26 CorNouws it is #1999

15:20:32 _Nesshof_ CorNouws: I'm not sure if I really got the idea

15:20:40 mhu I think, it is a good idea

15:20:56 louis_to was just oince again making a mistake.

15:20:57 louis_to sigh

15:21:07 louis_to http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1999

15:21:18 louis_to (am in another meeting, alas)

15:21:19 stx12 and it links to

15:21:20 stx12 http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Project_Improvements

15:21:29 _Nesshof_ CorNouws: all points are valid, but what is expected who is doing what ?

15:22:09 _Nesshof_ which of the items should have which importance ?

15:22:28 CorNouws _Nesshof_: good point ... But you understand the idea now? Or do you think that I want us to apoint people to do all the work?

15:22:38 sophi _Nesshof_: this why I think that some details are requested to give some priorities

15:22:38 _Nesshof_ how do we see these items in comparsion to bugfixes/feature for the product ?

15:23:04 CorNouws _Nesshof_: You are thinking about priority, fixing?

15:23:20 CorNouws I see it more (now) as making items visible to all

15:23:23 mhu it is about the project not the product, I think I understood

15:24:04 sophi CorNouws: who is 'all'?

15:24:51 CorNouws the whole global (OOo) community

15:25:37 _Nesshof_ sophi: to leverage most of the items on the list we would need development resources, so we need to make clear how we see the priority of these items in comparsion to bug fixes or new features

15:25:48 _Nesshof_ at least this applies to patch handling

15:26:01 _Nesshof_ further improvement for support developes

15:26:08 _Nesshof_ localization process

15:26:39 sophi _Nesshof_: yes, I agree and you can add marketing tasks too

15:26:52 _Nesshof_ sophi: yes

15:27:23 CorNouws _Nesshof_: sophi: when it comes to prioritizing

15:27:28 CorNouws and decissions

15:27:35 sophi CorNouws: so you want the community to add items on furthering the community first, before entering the details?

15:27:41 CorNouws there may be a moment that the CC is going to discuss it

15:27:55 CorNouws but before we know what we have to discuss, we must see it

15:28:10 CorNouws and this page invites people to let it know

15:28:29 CorNouws and also it makes them understand that we try to be aware of what is pleaying around

15:28:54 CorNouws and to see where we can help (and be clear if we cannot - sorry Obama)

15:29:15 louis_to CorNouws: all this presumes that the "community" will use this service

15:29:17 CorNouws sophi: Sorry, was typing, not reading ;-)

15:29:33 louis_to my guess is that .. maybe

15:29:44 CorNouws sophi: Yes, but as stated on the page: after tallking to a cc member, to prevent to much cluttering

15:29:57 louis_to but isn't it also the project lead's responsibility to inform the council of issues, problems, etc.?

15:30:03 louis_to (or shoudln't it be?)

15:30:25 CorNouws louis_to: so that is a good route for imput

15:30:46 mhu so we discussed as first agenda topic today

15:31:20 CorNouws Plsu that I think when people see that the list exists and that we pay attention (might it be limited due to planning contraints ;-) ) it motivates to use it

15:31:23 mhu s/so/as/

15:31:28 sophi louis_to: some issue are transversal and may be not seen or project leads are too invested in there project to get the distance

15:31:35 CorNouws mhu: Yip

15:31:50 CorNouws sophi: indeed.

15:32:17 _Nesshof_ http://ooo.services.openoffice.org/~mh93703/OpenOfficePlanning.odt may be the link to step into planning

15:32:26 CorNouws plsu: also ' ordinary ' community members may have ideas / needs, and maybe do not knwo a route via a project lead

15:33:31 louis_to CorNouws: so this wd. replace the (already replaced agenda@ list) the agenda wiki?

15:33:51 louis_to which, we all know, is open to all to add items to? (we know this, others probably do not)

15:33:53 CorNouws _Nesshof_: Thanks!

15:34:27 CorNouws louis_to: No, not as agenda for our council meetings pls.

15:34:38 CorNouws A permanet place for ...

15:35:32 CorNouws Cause: we know we have to work on recources for development (to mention just one) but do not need to discuss that every fourth noght

15:35:34 CorNouws do we ?

15:35:46 louis_to no

15:35:56 louis_to pointless; time moves in jerks

15:36:15 louis_to so, what would be the relation then between the wiki agenda and this site?

15:36:26 louis_to ie, how do we place things there on the agenda?

15:36:35 CorNouws Thalion72: Any opinions on the page, idea?

15:36:44 louis_to historically, all items could find their way on the agenda

15:36:59 Thalion72 CorNouws: No - not at themo moment

15:37:03 louis_to for community submissions, most were acceptable; the few that were not were obviously not

15:37:04 CorNouws louis_to: when we think it is time to discuss it, we use our brains (try to ;-) )

15:37:30 CorNouws Thalion72: Thanks

15:37:39 Thalion72 CorNouws: I just think, the page is usefull

15:37:42 louis_to so you see this then as a kind of mix between a forum (community discussion) and raw material for agenda items?

15:37:49 CorNouws May I propose that I pick it up, after what this discussion has brought us?

15:37:59 louis_to wait..

15:38:05 CorNouws louis_to: I'll try to wxplain on list, OK

15:38:07 louis_to why not just revive the agenda list?

15:38:16 louis_to it's agenda@council

15:38:22 louis_to open to all (spammers, too!)

15:38:23 CorNouws types fast, but lots of errors - sorriee

15:38:39 Thalion72 louis_to: I see the wiki page mor as a place for strategic palnning, while tha agenda is for ad-hoc discussion

15:38:44 louis_to we simply grab as before items suggested by those who post there

15:39:01 louis_to how does that differ, besides being easier, from the suggestion?

15:39:08 mhu thinks, agenda has much shorter time scale than what Cor is thinking of

15:39:09 CorNouws louis_to: As said: i propose to continue on the list first, and return to this the next time... OK?

15:39:20 CorNouws mhu: go it :-)

15:39:23 louis_to very well:

15:39:28 louis_to okay

15:39:33 mhu :-)

15:39:37 Thalion72 louis_to: you do not really ask, how strategic planning differs from ad-hoc discussion?

15:39:43 sophi CorNouws: the more you wait, the more I'll complete it :)

15:39:47 louis_to then AI to continue to refine idea on the list, taking in to account discussions here

15:40:01 CorNouws sophi: I count you in :-)

15:40:03 louis_to Thalion72: no> I am thinking of what vehicles we have to reach the community

15:40:09 CorNouws thanks all..

15:40:32 louis_to thanks, CorNouws

15:40:47 mhu has to leave in about 5 min (or at least switch back to read-only mode)

15:40:52 louis_to oooh, booy, finally, #3, coordinator

15:40:59 louis_to I too have another meeting coming up

15:41:11 CorNouws louis_to: :-)

15:41:29 louis_to shall we move to #3 or discuss it onlist and then revisit it next meeting?

15:41:44 louis_to I would prefer that option but await others' views

15:41:45 CorNouws We had a discussion on the lis already

15:41:49 sophi +1 for the idea however

15:41:51 louis_to I kow...

15:42:38 CorNouws well, discussion maybe is a bit to much said

15:43:22 louis_to Given the time, I propose that we table (postpone) discussions on #3 and subsequent items and visit these onlist and discuss / resolve next meeting

15:43:42 louis_to please indicate your approval/ disapproval to adjourn with above obligation

15:43:49 mhu +1

15:43:52 sophi +1

15:43:58 CorNouws You mean that each who says: next meeting

15:44:05 Thalion72 next item is easy .. MArtin revised his wording on releases@ooo

15:44:07 CorNouws will also join the list for discussion?

15:44:55 louis_to CorNouws; I do not understand. I'm asking to adjourn and discuss as needed on the list and then have these items to conclude next meeting

15:45:58 CorNouws Yes, and I ask that everyone who agrees, promises not to sleep when there is a mail on the list ;-)

15:46:03 louis_to indeed.

15:46:19 sophi CorNouws: I promise :)

15:46:19 louis_to once again, I thank Cor for being... Cor

15:46:24 louis_to :-)

15:46:28 mhu :-)

15:46:32 CorNouws louis_to: ;-)

15:46:33 louis_to so, any objections to adjourning the meeting now?

15:46:48 CorNouws Any urgent matters in AI??

15:47:03 Thalion72 hmm .. no

15:47:03 louis_to yes; as stated, the AI re l10n server

15:47:12 Thalion72 uhh .. stop - yes

15:47:13 louis_to and yours regarding growth

15:47:20 louis_to and one other.k

15:47:20 sophi Andre: Louis: could you give an update about upcoming meetings on trademarks and budget ?

15:47:26 Thalion72 we should prepare the elections ;)

15:47:34 louis_to yes. these must be done.

15:47:42 *** paveljanik (n=Pavel@unaffiliated/paveljanik) has joined the channel

15:47:43 CorNouws louis_to: No I mean the AI? from the last meeting

15:47:45 louis_to these are lingering AIs that have not been resolved

15:47:58 paveljanik Hi

15:47:59 louis_to Ah; yes, that is one, electons; trademarks is another

15:48:04 CorNouws Thalion72: nearly forgot that one :-\

15:48:10 paveljanik Sorry for being late, I just came back :-(

15:48:11 louis_to hi paveljanik: we are close to concluding meeting

15:48:17 CorNouws paveljanik: good morning ;-)

15:48:36 Thalion72 elections: I can start with a wiki page this weekend (what we need to prepare, what the timeline should be ..)

15:48:45 louis_to AI: louis to send to CC list elections call

15:48:58 CorNouws Worries about security event in Amsterdam an d publicity!

15:48:59 louis_to and I guess work with Thalion72:

15:49:05 louis_to ?

15:49:14 sophi Thalion72: ok, I'll monitor and add my remarks :)

15:49:33 louis_to trademark: I think sending to CC list an update is best.

15:49:33 CorNouws Worries about release and issue ??? (lack of speed with Fontwork) and our marketing goals ..

15:49:42 louis_to I note that we are progressively getting more public on the issues

15:50:12 sophi CorNouws: we all have our own issues on the next release ;)

15:50:25 louis_to So: Thalion72: to create informative wiki this weekend, aided by Sophie and Louis and louis and Thalion72 and others to commence the elections next week.

15:50:28 louis_to is next week okay?

15:50:51 louis_to We (Sophi? Louis) to update CC list on trademark discussions

15:50:51 sophi louis_to: yes

15:50:57 Thalion72 louis_to: we can plan to do it next week ;)

15:51:19 louis_to finally, lingering MH AI re trademark meeting ...? MH can update onlist with status

15:51:22 sophi louis_to: Thalion72 has to have the meeting first with QA leads

15:51:28 louis_to okay

15:51:52 _Nesshof_ louis_to: i will post a summary on the tm list

15:51:54 Thalion72 sophi: huh? Me has to have a meeting? Speaking of Trademark?

15:52:07 louis_to oh, good, I wasn't the only one confused :-)

15:52:26 louis_to _Nesshof_ thanks

15:52:26 _Nesshof_ Thalion72: our yesterdays meeting

15:52:49 sophi Thalion72: Martin said that you should discuss with QA leads about TestTool and so as reliable for trademark, did I miss something?

15:53:10 Thalion72 sophi: ok - discussed this yesterday with Martin and Helge

15:53:14 _Nesshof_ sophi: no QA leads but QA automation lead

15:53:26 sophi Thalion72: _Nesshof_: ok :)

15:53:35 Thalion72 I think, Martin has now a better idea what is possible with testtool and what not

15:54:48 sophi _Nesshof_: great, so an update to trademark list on you opinion and wishes would be good :)

15:56:48 louis_to so, summary, we (minus paveljanik, mhu) have things to do; onlist, for next meeting

15:57:26 mhu still has budget AIs that he is slowly working on ...

15:57:33 louis_to again, unless anyone has objections, I'd like to adjourn this meeting. IRC log to be posted

15:57:44 louis_to (sorry mhu, didn't mean to leave you out :-) )

15:57:50 mhu :-)

15:58:51 mhu yes, please lets finish; I need to leave now anyway ...

15:58:53 louis_to meeting adjourned

</pre>

Community Council/Minutes

2009-04-16T04:33:10Z

LouisSuarez:

=Minutes of Meetings=

== 2009-04-09==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===
# L10n builds distribution over the network, see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?listName=discuss&msgNo=1986 Rafaella mail]
## what can we do to support
## ..
# Growing the project
## see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1999 mail list]
## discussion
## to go or not to go
# Proposal for role of council coordinator
## see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2000 mail list]
## discussion
## to go or not to go
# Guidelines for bundling extensions
:: [http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=100836 issue 100836] requests the removal of the writer2latex extension from OOo 3.1 (raised as showstopper)
:: reason was given in [http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=100744 issue 100744] as "According to our guidelines for bundling extensions we cannot bundle extensions which are not covered by the guidelines to contribute (meaning SCA)."
:: Question to the council: where are those guidelines, who approved these guidelines at what time?
# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Action items
## Budget
### Louis: schedule a conference call with CC members for next week regarding budget issues
### Matthias: money on account and estimates for incomes and taxes to pay
### Louis: Send estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
## SPI - update
## Trademark
### Louis to review with André and John trademark proposals; also to revisit the list (done)
### Update
## Louis, André: elections draft announcement + schedule
## Cor to send to CC list proposals on CC function, structure and community growth (both done)

=== log ===
* [[Community_Council_Log_20090409]]

=== AI's ===
TBD

=== Minutes ===
TBD

== 2009-03-26==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===
# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Action items
## Elections ..
## New charter - done
## Budget precedures - done
## SPI
### mails to CC list ..
### info on donations page - done
## Trademark
## Growing the project
### info on wiki
### further ideas / discussion
# (2009) Budget
## Is it possible to work with yearly spending / income sheets etc. (see irc log)
# Proposal for role of council co-ordinator
## appoint a council coordinator every 4 to 5 months, who is responsible during that time for poking the colleagues ;-) etc.
### will improve overall cc-performance
### will help to share the feeling of really being part of it, of joined responsibility
# L10n builds distribution over the network, see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?listName=discuss&msgNo=1986 Rafaella mail]

=== log ===
* [[Community Council Log 20090326]]

=== AI's ===
Action items
# Budget
## Louis: schedule a conference call with CC members for next week regarding budget issues
## Matthias: money on account and estimates for incomes and taxes to pay
## Louis: Send estimates for several important upcoming events to budget@
# SPI - update
# Trademark
## Louis to review with André and John trademark proposals; also to revisit the list (done)
## Update
# Louis, André: elections draft announcement + schedule
# Cor to send to CC list proposals on CC function, structure and community growth (both done)

=== Minutes ===
* Minutes TBD

== 2009-03-12 [[Community Council Notes 20090312]] ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===
# Minutes of previous meeting for approval and action items
# 2008 Financial Statement
# 2009 Budget
# Proposal for role of Community Co-ordinator (Cor)
# Update on Trademarks (Sophie)

=== Attendees ===
* Sophie Gautier (sophi)
* Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
* John McCreesh (jpmcc)
* Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
* André Schnabel (Thalion72)
* Stefan Taxhet (stx12)

** absent: Pavel Janik (paveljanik)
** absent: Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_)

=== Minutes ===
====New and Familiar Action Items====
* Elections: to commence this week with candidate nominations (Louis and Sophie).
*Announcements related to new charter and elections:
1. For new charter (André and John, ''completed'')
2. for nominations and election news, 3 days after the first announcement
* Trademark update (In lawyer's hands; update: Sophie, John, Louis): "in progress"
* Budget procedures clarification (John and probably others): ''in progress''
* LSP: Louis to re-send to CC list original emails related to SPI

===Summary/Minutes===
* Prior minutes were approved

===Old Action Items and actions and summary of discussion===
* André: review plebiscite on Community Council Proposal, ask the council to formally accept the proposal and publish as new version of the charter - complete - on agenda -''completed''
* John: make budget procedures more visible - ''completed''
* Sophie: prepare a short note about trademark proposal for the next meeting - complete -'' on agenda''
* Sophie: resend mail on SPI to the council list for comments - on agenda
* Louis / Matthias: get treasurers of Team OOo e.V. and SPI in contact - Action: Matthias to ping Louis for contact details - ''completed''
* Charter change (André) see email - Agreed Proposal formally accepted by Council, updated on Web, ''completed''.
Trademark (Sophie) draft_0.6 is ready, waiting comments from Marketing - Action: under legal review, ''continuing''
* Budget (Cor) we intended to decide on the budget for 2009. Is info available? Martin said this was scheduled for March.
* Budget (Cor) Proposal for clear routing of funding request: see email. Agreed. Action - Cor --''completed''
* Budget (Cor) Proposal to ask the l10n-team at Sun, if new hardware is badly needed see mail. Action Stefan to see if we can improve quality of service by spending CC budget on infrastructure: ''completed'':
** ST spoke with Rafallea Branconi and she "feels comfortable with the current setup with 2 pootle servers.'we will monitor these more closely to see whether they are as reliable as we need it. Sophie argued that language partition is inefficient and that we should partition by region instead. ''Discussion to continue''
* Budget (Sophie) SPI Info needed see mail – Action: Louis/Sophie contacted SPI and Louis is sending MHU notifications of donations; link to SPI repository on donation page (http://contributing.openoffice.org/donate.html). L/S attended last Board meeting as observers and will participate more actively to run for office. (Why SPI? Because makes it easier for US residents to pay via cheque or credit card.)
* Growing the project (Cor) see mail Action Cor to put on the wiki- completed: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Project_Improvements : ''Discussions to be conducted on list'' '''Action remaining: Louis to re-send to CC list original emails'''.
* This year's GSoC (John) Action Stefan to see if we are likely to be accepted- ''discussed''
* Proposals for OOoCon and the Community consultation process (John). John stated that after discussions on the lists, the Marketing Project had decided to change the process to award OOoCon one year in advance. This would give teams more time to prepare and to allow them to learn from the previous team. This means this year the MP will be awarding OOoCon 09 and 10, then next year OOoCon 11, etc. As time was short, John agreed to continue this conversation on the CC list. Action John--''completed''

== 2009-02-19 (IRC) ==

===Attendees===
* Sophie Gautier (sophi)
* Pavel Janik (paveljanik)
* Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_)
* Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
* John McCreesh (jpmcc)
* Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
* André Schnabel (Thalion72)
* Stefan Taxhet (stx12)

* missing:
** Louis Suarez-Potts (absent)

===Minutes===
16:45 Meeting opened
# Minutes of previous meeting - approved
# Action items
## André: review plebiscite on Community Council Proposal, ask the council to formally accept the proposal and publish as new version of the charter - complete - ''on agenda''
## John: make budget procedures more visible - ''complete''
## Cor: draft a proposal for a more clear workflow - ''on agenda''
## Sophie: prepare a short note about trademark proposal for the next meeting - complete - ''on agenda''
## Sophie: resend mail on SPI to the council list for comments - ''on agenda''
## Louis / Matthias: get treasurers of Team OOo e.V. and SPI in contact - '''Action''': Matthias to ping Louis for contact details
# Charter change (André) [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1944 see email] - '''Agreed''' Proposal formally accepted by Council
# Trademark (Sophie) draft_0.6 is ready, waiting comments from Marketing - '''Action''': John to review
# Budget (Cor) we intended to decide on the budget for 2009. Is info available? Martin said this was scheduled for March.
# Budget (Cor) Proposal for clear routing of funding request: [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1923 see email]. '''Agreed'''. '''Action''' - Cor to add to wiki
# Budget (Cor) Proposal to ask the l10n-team at Sun, if new hardware is badly needed [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1843 see mail]. '''Action''' Stefan to see if we can improve quality of service by spending CC budget on infrastructure
# Budget (Sophie) SPI Info needed [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1854 see mail] - already discussed
# Growing the project (Cor) [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1946 see mail] '''Action''' Cor to put on the wiki
# This year's [http://code.google.com/opensource/gsoc/2009/faqs.html GSoC] (John) '''Action''' Stefan to see if we are likely to be accepted
# [http://marketing.openoffice.org/ooocon2009/cfl/index.html Proposals for OOoCon] and the Community consultation process (John). John stated that after discussions on the lists, the Marketing Project had decided to change the process to award OOoCon one year in advance. This would give teams more time to prepare and to allow them to learn from the previous team. This means this year the MP will be awarding OOoCon 09 and 10, then next year OOoCon 11, etc. As time was short, John agreed to continue this conversation on the CC list. '''Action''' John
# AOB - none
17:49 UTC Meeting closed

==2009-01-22 (IRC)==

===Attendees===
* Sophie Gautier (sophi)
* Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_)
* Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
* Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
* André Schnabel (Thalion72)
* Stefan Taxhet (stx12)

* missing:
** Louis Suarez-Potts (excused)
** Pavel Janik

===New Action Items===

* André: review plebiscite on Community Council Proposal, ask the council to formally accept the proposal and publish as new version of the charter

* John: make budget procedures more visible
* Cor: draft a proposal for a more clear workflow

* Sophie: prepare a short note about trademark proposal for the next meeting

* Sophie: resend mail on SPI to the council list for comments
* Louis / Matthias: get treasurers of Team OOo e.V. and SPI in contact

===Agenda===

# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Approval of provisional budgets for 2009
# Endorsement of "Developer's Manifesto 2009"
# AOB

===Minutes===

* budget holders can start with the same budgets as for 2008. Budgets for 2009 will be reviewed end of Feb. (after Team OOo e.V. finished finanzial review, budged holders are asked to prepare a more detailed budget plan, if possible)

* a "Developer's Manifesto 2009" will be published on the OOo website, as porposed on the [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1922 council mailing list]

* Other business
** the new Charter Proposal has passed all steps that are necessary to become final. The results of the plebiscite need to be reviewed and the proposal needs to be published at the council website as new version of the charter.
:: AI for André: review plebiscite, ask the council to formally accept the proposal and publish as new version of the charter

:* André suggested to move the budget and funding procedures to the council website. Proposal was rejected, as the procedure is likely to be reworked.
:: AI for John: make budget procedures more visible
:: AI for Cor: draft a proposal for a more clear workflow

:* CorNouws asked what the status of the trademark proposal is
:: AI for Sophie: prepare a short note about trademark proposal for the next meeting

:* Sophie asked for more information about SPI
:: AI for Sophie: resend mail on SPI to the council list for comments
:: AI for Louis / Matthias: get treasurers of Team OOo e.V. and SPI in contact

=== Log ===
[[Community Council Log 20092201]]

== OLDER MEETINGS ... 2008 and before ==
See the next page:
[[Community_Council/Minutes_2008_and_older]]

Community Council Log 20090409

2009-04-16T04:31:55Z

LouisSuarez: New page: == IRC Log of Community Council Meeting 2009-04-09 == '''Attendees''' * Sophie Gautier (sophi) * Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_) * Matthias Huetsch (mhu) * Cor Nouws (CorNouws) * André Sc...

== IRC Log of Community Council Meeting 2009-04-09 ==

'''Attendees'''

* Sophie Gautier (sophi)
* Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_)
* Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
* Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
* André Schnabel (Thalion72)
* Stefan Taxhet (stx12)
* Pavel Janik (paveljanik) (came on scene at end)
* Louis Suárez-Potts (louis_to)

<pre>

irc.freenode.net #OOocouncil 2009-04-09

irc.freenode.net #OOocouncil 14:29:47 4/9/09

14:29:47 *** You have joined the channel

Session commences

14:36:52 louis_to agenda is here:

14:36:54 louis_to http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Agenda

14:37:13 louis_to The minutes (thanks!) are listed there

14:37:24 louis_to do we agree with last week's?

14:38:05 CorNouws I see no minutes .. and besides that: The agenda has another order ...

14:38:13 louis_to ?

14:38:37 louis_to ah. I am going to the action items as relevant minutes; do we agree with those AIs?

14:38:37 CorNouws http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Minutes#Minutes

14:38:55 CorNouws http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Agenda#Next_regular_meeting:_April_9th_2009

14:39:16 louis_to Cor: do you want to work with the order established by the agenda? that contravenes normal procedure, to approve history first, then proceed on to new things

14:39:48 CorNouws Yes pls as on the wiki - we talked about that 2 wks agoo - noreason for me to do it differten now..

14:39:57 Thalion72 louis_to: Cor is right, we agreed last time to put Rafaella's requeston top

14:39:58 louis_to very well

14:40:01 louis_to no problem

14:40:08 CorNouws thanks ;-)

14:40:14 louis_to so:

14:40:15 louis_to L10n builds distribution over the network, see Rafaella mail

14:40:15 louis_to 1. what can we do to support

14:40:15 louis_to 2. ..

14:40:15 sophi thanks :)

14:40:23 Thalion72 CorNouws: and sorry for changing the order today ;)

14:40:35 louis_to her mail is: http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2000

14:40:51 louis_to key point:

14:40:51 louis_to The idea:

14:40:51 louis_to - appoint a council coordinator every 4 to 5 months, who is

14:40:51 louis_to responsible during that time for poking the colleagues ;-) etc.

14:40:51 louis_to Expected:

14:40:51 louis_to - will improve overall cc-performance

14:40:51 louis_to - will help to share the feeling of really being part of

14:40:51 louis_to it, of joined responsibility

14:40:57 sophi Thalion72: my fault, I promized and didn't managed

14:40:57 CorNouws Thalion72: (OK, thought it was because of wiki's numberng behaviour ??)

14:41:24 Thalion72 louis_to: oops .. you mixed upt the topics

14:41:25 louis_to oops sorry, wrong url

14:41:27 louis_to yesp

14:41:38 louis_to http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?listName=discuss&msgNo=1986

14:41:52 louis_to curses cut and paste and multitasking

14:42:22 louis_to RB : I

14:42:22 louis_to want to make sure that all native-language community actively localizing

14:42:22 louis_to the product are able to follow this process and do not have to find

14:42:22 louis_to workarounds because of an issue with the OOo distribution infrastructure.

14:43:12 sophi we miss space to upload all the languages and language packs

14:43:23 louis_to questions: what sort of infrastructure is she speaking of? is it just storage space?

14:43:39 Thalion72 maybe stx12 can tell more?

14:43:46 CorNouws And IMO also reliability ..

14:44:09 sophi yes, see : It seems that the space is not sufficient to distribute such a large number of languages. I am - of course - not talking about language packs but of bull binaries.

14:44:16 CorNouws Both André and others had trouble with data loss because of hardware probs ..

14:44:51 Thalion72 CorNouws: hmm ... that was an issue at the pootle server and we got information that this has been resolved

14:44:57 sophi and we plane to may be change the criteria to have binaries for more languages

14:44:59 stx12 CorNouws, you are talking about pootle. rafaella talks about distribution of binaries

14:45:14 Thalion72 The current problem is about bulding and distributing localized test versions (RCs)

14:45:43 stx12 i think the requirements rafaella describes are easy to agree with. together with the constraints of the network this means a bit of discipline and structure.

14:45:46 CorNouws stx12: Thalion72: Sorry for mixing up, for me thos ere both l10n-support issues ;-)

14:46:15 CorNouws Thalion72: has been resolved = repaired .. but is it redundant, will data be save with a possible next crash??

14:46:21 stx12 disk space, mirror capacity and bandwidth is limited even nowadays.

14:47:04 sophi stx12: so how is it possible to have more space, mirror capacity and bandwith?

14:47:08 Thalion72 stx12: but if i get you right, we have enough resource but need to use them more efficiently?

14:47:29 CorNouws stx12: I remeber some council member complaining about low spending :-)

14:47:44 stx12 Thalion72: that's half of the truth

14:48:11 Thalion72 and the other half ...? ;)

14:48:14 CorNouws all: Is it necessary to work out all detaisl here, or can we say that 2, e of us sort it out next 2 wkes?

14:48:21 mhu now has finished his dinner; sorry it took some time

14:48:27 sophi if we decide to build more binaries for languages but are not able to distribute them, the discussion is dead before begining

14:48:42 stx12 use main set (~30gb), extended set (~150Gb) well and have some more space for low request data.

14:48:56 CorNouws (repeat): all: Is it necessary to work out all detailsl here, or can we say that 2, 3 of us sort it out next 2 wkes?

14:49:17 stx12 sophi: that's correct - but I was surprised by rafaella "was told...".

14:50:10 stx12 CorNouws: that's a good approach; i think we agreed earlier that we will drive things and are happy about reviewing proposals.

14:50:15 sophi stx12: the discussion was on mirror list if I remember well, some languages are available on extended and orther on stable if I'm right, where every body would like to be visible at the same level

14:50:55 Thalion72 stx12: well .. just this week we had the request from serbian team to have full installation sets of RC1

14:51:12 Thalion72 this request was denied due to lack of ressources

14:51:33 CorNouws Thalion72: resources to build or to store?

14:51:49 Thalion72 CorNouws: I don't know (seemed to me both)

14:52:00 sophi Thalion72: yes, and we should discuss the necessary % of translation being sure that the distribution can be done

14:52:03 stx12 Thalion72: which is unfortunate and not necessary. i don't think they asked for 5 platforms?

14:52:06 Thalion72 I would have to review the mails (did not follow this closely)

14:52:19 sophi stx12: for 3 plateforms

14:52:59 sophi CorNouws: they are providing a mirror, so they have even resources to store

14:53:04 stx12 sophi: ok, then i don't see the specific problem. but it's correct to rethink the distribution structure.

14:53:36 sophi stx12: ok, thanks, we can discuss this on the list

14:53:45 stx12 on which list?

14:53:52 stx12 and who is we?

14:54:21 sophi stx12: we is rafaella and l10n team, the list could be dev@l10n

14:54:22 stx12 is not a fried of passive voice like "was told that there is no space" ;-)

14:54:40 Thalion72 stx12: but this is the case

14:54:58 stx12 there are those missing that upload build and manage the master(s)

14:55:00 sophi stx12: discussing together on the list should clarify the request and the needs :)

14:55:24 louis_to I would suggest then that we finalize discussions on the list .

14:55:44 Thalion72 and first identify the actual problem

14:55:51 _Nesshof_ wonders if it is more important to distribute more languages or without and with jre build ...

14:56:05 sophi stx12: I'll send you the links to the previous discussion I remember

14:56:09 CorNouws are technical people and HR people present on that list as well??

14:56:14 stx12 or 3-5 linux builds

14:56:17 _Nesshof_ suggest to drop the without jre builds

14:56:45 stx12 CorNouws: HR? Heiner or RE = release engineering?

14:56:55 CorNouws _Nesshof_: poll the users@ list about that ;-)

14:57:17 stx12 i guess we would need joost, florian and marcus

14:57:18 CorNouws HR = human resources; i.e. do we have people to do the work

14:57:42 stx12 we have people who claim they can't do the work ;-)

14:57:46 Thalion72 marcus is at dev@l10n .. joost and florian not

14:58:41 Thalion72 I can ask Florian to join the list for a while (but he is very busy at the moment)

14:59:18 stx12 or we go the easy approach and rent a box with 1TB disk space and let joost/marcus upload everything they have...

14:59:40 sophi Thalion72: I think we should clear the exact request about space needed and what languages are available (what % of translations is needed) first on l10n then discuss with distribution

14:59:46 Thalion72 if someone checks the price .. no problem

15:00:43 stx12 and here we come to the proposal again...

15:00:44 CorNouws 1TB space, and is distribution no problem?

15:01:00 _Nesshof_ Thalion72: do we know what bandwidth we need for tht box ?

15:01:11 mhu wonders if we could consult download statistics to measure which builds could be dropped ...

15:01:24 CorNouws ... that we have seen the necessary questions here and that x + y are going to sort it out ..

15:01:35 _Nesshof_ mhu: this is not really an option

15:01:50 _Nesshof_ this would be a mainenance nightmare

15:02:00 mhu ??? you proposed to drop w/o jre builds ???

15:02:06 Thalion72 CorNouws: I could work on this in the next week (at least try to collect the requirements)

15:02:17 sophi _Nesshof_: available builds are depending on the space available, we have more builds so more space needed :)

15:02:35 stx12 i think we will need some tooling support anyway (qatrack, pootle/translation stats, ...)

15:02:47 _Nesshof_ mhu: what i don't want to see is, we don't need lang x on platform y

15:03:07 sophi stx12: yes, in fact distribution do not follow the l10n growth

15:03:10 mhu no, I also dont want that

15:03:14 _Nesshof_ for jre I can say from bouncer data: 75% of downloads are wjre downloads

15:03:36 _Nesshof_ but this is also language dependent

15:03:36 Thalion72 _Nesshof_: because thi is the default choice ;)

15:03:39 mhu so, you have already answered my question :-)

15:03:50 stx12 @_Nesshof_: and i don't want 5 linux versions for a language used by 10 people distributed to 100 mirrors

15:04:04 _Nesshof_ some l10n communities seems to prefer to promote without jre other have no problem with jre

15:04:11 Thalion72 stx12: we really need to identify the requirements first

15:04:27 louis_to stx12: we had previously (or I had) raised the idea of regional availability only for some languages

15:04:29 Thalion72 the request was about versions for testing - not final distribution

15:04:36 _Nesshof_ stx12: that a catch22

15:04:37 sophi _Nesshof_: so let ask the l10n team, they made the version they need available for distribution by Joost

15:04:57 sophi _Nesshof_: we provide the exact links to the versions

15:05:09 stx12 so, do we need 2 linux packages per language for testing ?

15:05:10 _Nesshof_ sophi: no, i don't want a language dependent table

15:05:25 sophi _Nesshof_: this is what is done already

irc.freenode.net #OOocouncil 15:05:36 4/9/09

15:05:36 *** You have joined the channel

15:06:16 _Nesshof_ sophi: language requested should mean that we deliver this language for all platforms

15:06:30 Thalion72 stx12: I don'T think we are able to identify the requierements here in this discussion

15:06:33 stx12 @_Nesshof_: no, i'm not saying that i don't want to distribute builds for a language.

15:06:48 stx12 @_Nesshof_: and this is where we disagree and what is not feasible

15:07:06 _Nesshof_ stx12: but what ?

15:08:10 sophi could we have the discussion first with l10n teams and see what is needed before stating what is possible or not?

15:08:12 stx12 but provide 1 build per platform for testing; rc's on demand

15:08:23 stx12 but provide 1 build per platform per langauge for testing; rc's on demand

15:08:31 Thalion72 stx12: simple answer: we need all the builds

15:09:00 stx12 Thalion72: you and ~10 other team - but not 120

15:09:06 Thalion72 we indeed can debate this for another two hours here ..but I'd rather discuss this in anoher round

15:09:08 louis_to Thalion72: but we do not need all the builds everywhere--?

15:09:13 stx12 Thalion72: and no - not even de, fr, ...

15:09:35 Thalion72 stx12: I disacree ;)

15:09:39 _Nesshof_ stx12: there I disagree

15:10:29 louis_to Given that we have limited time, I suggest we a) establish the prcise problem, b) some solutions, besides just more servers and c) reviisit this to conclude next meeting

15:10:48 louis_to and that we do this onlist.

15:10:53 Thalion72 louis_to: +1

15:11:09 Thalion72 leaves the question "Who on what list"

15:11:20 CorNouws Who takes care that all people that need to be involved really are present?

15:11:28 louis_to I would think here l10n

15:11:37 louis_to and I would suggest sophi

15:11:52 sophi louis_to: ok :)

15:11:55 Thalion72 I can help with this

15:11:58 CorNouws +1

15:12:01 louis_to it seems to me that _Nesshof_ and stx12 would have to be involved, Thalion72, too :-)

15:12:15 louis_to thanks, sophi

15:12:19 louis_to thanks Thalion72

15:13:11 Thalion72 plus Joost, Florian, HR

15:14:00 Thalion72 next Agenda item?

15:14:30 sophi 2. Growing the project

15:14:58 louis_to AI, Sophie and Andre, with Joost, Florian, HR, possibly Stefan T. and Martin H. to address l10n sever issue on l10n list, present to CC for discussion next meeting (add to agenda) recommendations

15:15:05 louis_to yes, next item on agena

15:15:38 CorNouws Remeber not to forget reliabillity

15:15:57 louis_to ?

15:16:12 louis_to CorNouws: I am not sure what you mean

15:16:25 CorNouws louis_to: (20:46:19) CorNouws

15:16:35 louis_to Item 2: Growing the project, as sophi stated: Growing the project

15:16:35 louis_to 1. see mail list

15:16:35 louis_to 2. discussion

15:16:35 louis_to 3. to go or not to go

15:17:12 louis_to See (this time): http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2000

15:18:27 sophi CorNouws: do I understand well that you need detail pages linked to the items on what is needed and proposed to further the project?

15:18:55 CorNouws sophi: as detail in working out, yes

15:19:08 CorNouws but that is probably a next step

15:19:33 mhu louis_to: the link above is "cc coordinator" but not "growing the project ?

15:19:44 sophi CorNouws: ok, thanks

15:19:58 CorNouws what do people find of the idea?

15:20:13 CorNouws mhu: Yes, Louis already said he needs a course ;-)

15:20:26 CorNouws it is #1999

15:20:32 _Nesshof_ CorNouws: I'm not sure if I really got the idea

15:20:40 mhu I think, it is a good idea

15:20:56 louis_to was just oince again making a mistake.

15:20:57 louis_to sigh

15:21:07 louis_to http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1999

15:21:18 louis_to (am in another meeting, alas)

15:21:19 stx12 and it links to

15:21:20 stx12 http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Project_Improvements

15:21:29 _Nesshof_ CorNouws: all points are valid, but what is expected who is doing what ?

15:22:09 _Nesshof_ which of the items should have which importance ?

15:22:28 CorNouws _Nesshof_: good point ... But you understand the idea now? Or do you think that I want us to apoint people to do all the work?

15:22:38 sophi _Nesshof_: this why I think that some details are requested to give some priorities

15:22:38 _Nesshof_ how do we see these items in comparsion to bugfixes/feature for the product ?

15:23:04 CorNouws _Nesshof_: You are thinking about priority, fixing?

15:23:20 CorNouws I see it more (now) as making items visible to all

15:23:23 mhu it is about the project not the product, I think I understood

15:24:04 sophi CorNouws: who is 'all'?

15:24:51 CorNouws the whole global (OOo) community

15:25:37 _Nesshof_ sophi: to leverage most of the items on the list we would need development resources, so we need to make clear how we see the priority of these items in comparsion to bug fixes or new features

15:25:48 _Nesshof_ at least this applies to patch handling

15:26:01 _Nesshof_ further improvement for support developes

15:26:08 _Nesshof_ localization process

15:26:39 sophi _Nesshof_: yes, I agree and you can add marketing tasks too

15:26:52 _Nesshof_ sophi: yes

15:27:23 CorNouws _Nesshof_: sophi: when it comes to prioritizing

15:27:28 CorNouws and decissions

15:27:35 sophi CorNouws: so you want the community to add items on furthering the community first, before entering the details?

15:27:41 CorNouws there may be a moment that the CC is going to discuss it

15:27:55 CorNouws but before we know what we have to discuss, we must see it

15:28:10 CorNouws and this page invites people to let it know

15:28:29 CorNouws and also it makes them understand that we try to be aware of what is pleaying around

15:28:54 CorNouws and to see where we can help (and be clear if we cannot - sorry Obama)

15:29:15 louis_to CorNouws: all this presumes that the "community" will use this service

15:29:17 CorNouws sophi: Sorry, was typing, not reading ;-)

15:29:33 louis_to my guess is that .. maybe

15:29:44 CorNouws sophi: Yes, but as stated on the page: after tallking to a cc member, to prevent to much cluttering

15:29:57 louis_to but isn't it also the project lead's responsibility to inform the council of issues, problems, etc.?

15:30:03 louis_to (or shoudln't it be?)

15:30:25 CorNouws louis_to: so that is a good route for imput

15:30:46 mhu so we discussed as first agenda topic today

15:31:20 CorNouws Plsu that I think when people see that the list exists and that we pay attention (might it be limited due to planning contraints ;-) ) it motivates to use it

15:31:23 mhu s/so/as/

15:31:28 sophi louis_to: some issue are transversal and may be not seen or project leads are too invested in there project to get the distance

15:31:35 CorNouws mhu: Yip

15:31:50 CorNouws sophi: indeed.

15:32:17 _Nesshof_ http://ooo.services.openoffice.org/~mh93703/OpenOfficePlanning.odt may be the link to step into planning

15:32:26 CorNouws plsu: also ' ordinary ' community members may have ideas / needs, and maybe do not knwo a route via a project lead

15:33:31 louis_to CorNouws: so this wd. replace the (already replaced agenda@ list) the agenda wiki?

15:33:51 louis_to which, we all know, is open to all to add items to? (we know this, others probably do not)

15:33:53 CorNouws _Nesshof_: Thanks!

15:34:27 CorNouws louis_to: No, not as agenda for our council meetings pls.

15:34:38 CorNouws A permanet place for ...

15:35:32 CorNouws Cause: we know we have to work on recources for development (to mention just one) but do not need to discuss that every fourth noght

15:35:34 CorNouws do we ?

15:35:46 louis_to no

15:35:56 louis_to pointless; time moves in jerks

15:36:15 louis_to so, what would be the relation then between the wiki agenda and this site?

15:36:26 louis_to ie, how do we place things there on the agenda?

15:36:35 CorNouws Thalion72: Any opinions on the page, idea?

15:36:44 louis_to historically, all items could find their way on the agenda

15:36:59 Thalion72 CorNouws: No - not at themo moment

15:37:03 louis_to for community submissions, most were acceptable; the few that were not were obviously not

15:37:04 CorNouws louis_to: when we think it is time to discuss it, we use our brains (try to ;-) )

15:37:30 CorNouws Thalion72: Thanks

15:37:39 Thalion72 CorNouws: I just think, the page is usefull

15:37:42 louis_to so you see this then as a kind of mix between a forum (community discussion) and raw material for agenda items?

15:37:49 CorNouws May I propose that I pick it up, after what this discussion has brought us?

15:37:59 louis_to wait..

15:38:05 CorNouws louis_to: I'll try to wxplain on list, OK

15:38:07 louis_to why not just revive the agenda list?

15:38:16 louis_to it's agenda@council

15:38:22 louis_to open to all (spammers, too!)

15:38:23 CorNouws types fast, but lots of errors - sorriee

15:38:39 Thalion72 louis_to: I see the wiki page mor as a place for strategic palnning, while tha agenda is for ad-hoc discussion

15:38:44 louis_to we simply grab as before items suggested by those who post there

15:39:01 louis_to how does that differ, besides being easier, from the suggestion?

15:39:08 mhu thinks, agenda has much shorter time scale than what Cor is thinking of

15:39:09 CorNouws louis_to: As said: i propose to continue on the list first, and return to this the next time... OK?

15:39:20 CorNouws mhu: go it :-)

15:39:23 louis_to very well:

15:39:28 louis_to okay

15:39:33 mhu :-)

15:39:37 Thalion72 louis_to: you do not really ask, how strategic planning differs from ad-hoc discussion?

15:39:43 sophi CorNouws: the more you wait, the more I'll complete it :)

15:39:47 louis_to then AI to continue to refine idea on the list, taking in to account discussions here

15:40:01 CorNouws sophi: I count you in :-)

15:40:03 louis_to Thalion72: no> I am thinking of what vehicles we have to reach the community

15:40:09 CorNouws thanks all..

15:40:32 louis_to thanks, CorNouws

15:40:47 mhu has to leave in about 5 min (or at least switch back to read-only mode)

15:40:52 louis_to oooh, booy, finally, #3, coordinator

15:40:59 louis_to I too have another meeting coming up

15:41:11 CorNouws louis_to: :-)

15:41:29 louis_to shall we move to #3 or discuss it onlist and then revisit it next meeting?

15:41:44 louis_to I would prefer that option but await others' views

15:41:45 CorNouws We had a discussion on the lis already

15:41:49 sophi +1 for the idea however

15:41:51 louis_to I kow...

15:42:38 CorNouws well, discussion maybe is a bit to much said

15:43:22 louis_to Given the time, I propose that we table (postpone) discussions on #3 and subsequent items and visit these onlist and discuss / resolve next meeting

15:43:42 louis_to please indicate your approval/ disapproval to adjourn with above obligation

15:43:49 mhu +1

15:43:52 sophi +1

15:43:58 CorNouws You mean that each who says: next meeting

15:44:05 Thalion72 next item is easy .. MArtin revised his wording on releases@ooo

15:44:07 CorNouws will also join the list for discussion?

15:44:55 louis_to CorNouws; I do not understand. I'm asking to adjourn and discuss as needed on the list and then have these items to conclude next meeting

15:45:58 CorNouws Yes, and I ask that everyone who agrees, promises not to sleep when there is a mail on the list ;-)

15:46:03 louis_to indeed.

15:46:19 sophi CorNouws: I promise :)

15:46:19 louis_to once again, I thank Cor for being... Cor

15:46:24 louis_to :-)

15:46:28 mhu :-)

15:46:32 CorNouws louis_to: ;-)

15:46:33 louis_to so, any objections to adjourning the meeting now?

15:46:48 CorNouws Any urgent matters in AI??

15:47:03 Thalion72 hmm .. no

15:47:03 louis_to yes; as stated, the AI re l10n server

15:47:12 Thalion72 uhh .. stop - yes

15:47:13 louis_to and yours regarding growth

15:47:20 louis_to and one other.k

15:47:20 sophi Andre: Louis: could you give an update about upcoming meetings on trademarks and budget ?

15:47:26 Thalion72 we should prepare the elections ;)

15:47:34 louis_to yes. these must be done.

15:47:42 *** paveljanik (n=Pavel@unaffiliated/paveljanik) has joined the channel

15:47:43 CorNouws louis_to: No I mean the AI? from the last meeting

15:47:45 louis_to these are lingering AIs that have not been resolved

15:47:58 paveljanik Hi

15:47:59 louis_to Ah; yes, that is one, electons; trademarks is another

15:48:04 CorNouws Thalion72: nearly forgot that one :-\

15:48:10 paveljanik Sorry for being late, I just came back :-(

15:48:11 louis_to hi paveljanik: we are close to concluding meeting

15:48:17 CorNouws paveljanik: good morning ;-)

15:48:36 Thalion72 elections: I can start with a wiki page this weekend (what we need to prepare, what the timeline should be ..)

15:48:45 louis_to AI: louis to send to CC list elections call

15:48:58 CorNouws Worries about security event in Amsterdam an d publicity!

15:48:59 louis_to and I guess work with Thalion72:

15:49:05 louis_to ?

15:49:14 sophi Thalion72: ok, I'll monitor and add my remarks :)

15:49:33 louis_to trademark: I think sending to CC list an update is best.

15:49:33 CorNouws Worries about release and issue ??? (lack of speed with Fontwork) and our marketing goals ..

15:49:42 louis_to I note that we are progressively getting more public on the issues

15:50:12 sophi CorNouws: we all have our own issues on the next release ;)

15:50:25 louis_to So: Thalion72: to create informative wiki this weekend, aided by Sophie and Louis and louis and Thalion72 and others to commence the elections next week.

15:50:28 louis_to is next week okay?

15:50:51 louis_to We (Sophi? Louis) to update CC list on trademark discussions

15:50:51 sophi louis_to: yes

15:50:57 Thalion72 louis_to: we can plan to do it next week ;)

15:51:19 louis_to finally, lingering MH AI re trademark meeting ...? MH can update onlist with status

15:51:22 sophi louis_to: Thalion72 has to have the meeting first with QA leads

15:51:28 louis_to okay

15:51:52 _Nesshof_ louis_to: i will post a summary on the tm list

15:51:54 Thalion72 sophi: huh? Me has to have a meeting? Speaking of Trademark?

15:52:07 louis_to oh, good, I wasn't the only one confused :-)

15:52:26 louis_to _Nesshof_ thanks

15:52:26 _Nesshof_ Thalion72: our yesterdays meeting

15:52:49 sophi Thalion72: Martin said that you should discuss with QA leads about TestTool and so as reliable for trademark, did I miss something?

15:53:10 Thalion72 sophi: ok - discussed this yesterday with Martin and Helge

15:53:14 _Nesshof_ sophi: no QA leads but QA automation lead

15:53:26 sophi Thalion72: _Nesshof_: ok :)

15:53:35 Thalion72 I think, Martin has now a better idea what is possible with testtool and what not

15:54:48 sophi _Nesshof_: great, so an update to trademark list on you opinion and wishes would be good :)

15:56:48 louis_to so, summary, we (minus paveljanik, mhu) have things to do; onlist, for next meeting

15:57:26 mhu still has budget AIs that he is slowly working on ...

15:57:33 louis_to again, unless anyone has objections, I'd like to adjourn this meeting. IRC log to be posted

15:57:44 louis_to (sorry mhu, didn't mean to leave you out :-) )

15:57:50 mhu :-)

15:58:51 mhu yes, please lets finish; I need to leave now anyway ...

15:58:53 louis_to meeting adjourned

</pre>

Community Council/Minutes

2009-03-27T19:17:36Z

LouisSuarez:

=Minutes of Meetings=

== 2009-03-26==
* [[Community Council Log 20090326]]

* Minutes TBD, along with AIs.
* For now: Louis to schedule a conference call with CC members for next week regarding budget issues
* Louis to review with André and John trademark proposals; also to revisit the list
* Cor to send to CC list proposals on CC function, structure and community growth

Full AIs and minutes TBD.

== 2009-03-12 [[Community Council Notes 20090312]] ==

=== Agenda of that meeting ===
# Minutes of previous meeting for approval and action items
# 2008 Financial Statement
# 2009 Budget
# Proposal for role of Community Co-ordinator (Cor)
# Update on Trademarks (Sophie)

=== Attendees ===
* Sophie Gautier (sophi)
* Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
* John McCreesh (jpmcc)
* Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
* André Schnabel (Thalion72)
* Stefan Taxhet (stx12)

** absent: Pavel Janik (paveljanik)
** absent: Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_)

=== Minutes ===
====New and Familiar Action Items====
* Elections: to commence this week with candidate nominations (Louis and Sophie).
*Announcements related to new charter and elections:
1. For new charter (André and John, ''completed'')
2. for nominations and election news, 3 days after the first announcement
* Trademark update (In lawyer's hands; update: Sophie, John, Louis): "in progress"
* Budget procedures clarification (John and probably others): ''in progress''
* LSP: Louis to re-send to CC list original emails related to SPI

===Summary/Minutes===
* Prior minutes were approved

===Old Action Items and actions and summary of discussion===
* André: review plebiscite on Community Council Proposal, ask the council to formally accept the proposal and publish as new version of the charter - complete - on agenda -''completed''
* John: make budget procedures more visible - ''completed''
* Sophie: prepare a short note about trademark proposal for the next meeting - complete -'' on agenda''
* Sophie: resend mail on SPI to the council list for comments - on agenda
* Louis / Matthias: get treasurers of Team OOo e.V. and SPI in contact - Action: Matthias to ping Louis for contact details - ''completed''
* Charter change (André) see email - Agreed Proposal formally accepted by Council, updated on Web, ''completed''.
Trademark (Sophie) draft_0.6 is ready, waiting comments from Marketing - Action: under legal review, ''continuing''
* Budget (Cor) we intended to decide on the budget for 2009. Is info available? Martin said this was scheduled for March.
* Budget (Cor) Proposal for clear routing of funding request: see email. Agreed. Action - Cor --''completed''
* Budget (Cor) Proposal to ask the l10n-team at Sun, if new hardware is badly needed see mail. Action Stefan to see if we can improve quality of service by spending CC budget on infrastructure: ''completed'':
** ST spoke with Rafallea Branconi and she "feels comfortable with the current setup with 2 pootle servers.'we will monitor these more closely to see whether they are as reliable as we need it. Sophie argued that language partition is inefficient and that we should partition by region instead. ''Discussion to continue''
* Budget (Sophie) SPI Info needed see mail – Action: Louis/Sophie contacted SPI and Louis is sending MHU notifications of donations; link to SPI repository on donation page (http://contributing.openoffice.org/donate.html). L/S attended last Board meeting as observers and will participate more actively to run for office. (Why SPI? Because makes it easier for US residents to pay via cheque or credit card.)
* Growing the project (Cor) see mail Action Cor to put on the wiki- completed: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Project_Improvements : ''Discussions to be conducted on list'' '''Action remaining: Louis to re-send to CC list original emails'''.
* This year's GSoC (John) Action Stefan to see if we are likely to be accepted- ''discussed''
* Proposals for OOoCon and the Community consultation process (John). John stated that after discussions on the lists, the Marketing Project had decided to change the process to award OOoCon one year in advance. This would give teams more time to prepare and to allow them to learn from the previous team. This means this year the MP will be awarding OOoCon 09 and 10, then next year OOoCon 11, etc. As time was short, John agreed to continue this conversation on the CC list. Action John--''completed''

== 2009-02-19 (IRC) ==

===Attendees===
* Sophie Gautier (sophi)
* Pavel Janik (paveljanik)
* Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_)
* Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
* John McCreesh (jpmcc)
* Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
* André Schnabel (Thalion72)
* Stefan Taxhet (stx12)

* missing:
** Louis Suarez-Potts (absent)

===Minutes===
16:45 Meeting opened
# Minutes of previous meeting - approved
# Action items
## André: review plebiscite on Community Council Proposal, ask the council to formally accept the proposal and publish as new version of the charter - complete - ''on agenda''
## John: make budget procedures more visible - ''complete''
## Cor: draft a proposal for a more clear workflow - ''on agenda''
## Sophie: prepare a short note about trademark proposal for the next meeting - complete - ''on agenda''
## Sophie: resend mail on SPI to the council list for comments - ''on agenda''
## Louis / Matthias: get treasurers of Team OOo e.V. and SPI in contact - '''Action''': Matthias to ping Louis for contact details
# Charter change (André) [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1944 see email] - '''Agreed''' Proposal formally accepted by Council
# Trademark (Sophie) draft_0.6 is ready, waiting comments from Marketing - '''Action''': John to review
# Budget (Cor) we intended to decide on the budget for 2009. Is info available? Martin said this was scheduled for March.
# Budget (Cor) Proposal for clear routing of funding request: [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1923 see email]. '''Agreed'''. '''Action''' - Cor to add to wiki
# Budget (Cor) Proposal to ask the l10n-team at Sun, if new hardware is badly needed [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1843 see mail]. '''Action''' Stefan to see if we can improve quality of service by spending CC budget on infrastructure
# Budget (Sophie) SPI Info needed [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1854 see mail] - already discussed
# Growing the project (Cor) [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1946 see mail] '''Action''' Cor to put on the wiki
# This year's [http://code.google.com/opensource/gsoc/2009/faqs.html GSoC] (John) '''Action''' Stefan to see if we are likely to be accepted
# [http://marketing.openoffice.org/ooocon2009/cfl/index.html Proposals for OOoCon] and the Community consultation process (John). John stated that after discussions on the lists, the Marketing Project had decided to change the process to award OOoCon one year in advance. This would give teams more time to prepare and to allow them to learn from the previous team. This means this year the MP will be awarding OOoCon 09 and 10, then next year OOoCon 11, etc. As time was short, John agreed to continue this conversation on the CC list. '''Action''' John
# AOB - none
17:49 UTC Meeting closed

==2009-01-22 (IRC)==

===Attendees===
* Sophie Gautier (sophi)
* Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof_)
* Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
* Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
* André Schnabel (Thalion72)
* Stefan Taxhet (stx12)

* missing:
** Louis Suarez-Potts (excused)
** Pavel Janik

===New Action Items===

* André: review plebiscite on Community Council Proposal, ask the council to formally accept the proposal and publish as new version of the charter

* John: make budget procedures more visible
* Cor: draft a proposal for a more clear workflow

* Sophie: prepare a short note about trademark proposal for the next meeting

* Sophie: resend mail on SPI to the council list for comments
* Louis / Matthias: get treasurers of Team OOo e.V. and SPI in contact

===Agenda===

# Minutes of previous meeting for approval
# Approval of provisional budgets for 2009
# Endorsement of "Developer's Manifesto 2009"
# AOB

===Minutes===

* budget holders can start with the same budgets as for 2008. Budgets for 2009 will be reviewed end of Feb. (after Team OOo e.V. finished finanzial review, budged holders are asked to prepare a more detailed budget plan, if possible)

* a "Developer's Manifesto 2009" will be published on the OOo website, as porposed on the [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1922 council mailing list]

* Other business
** the new Charter Proposal has passed all steps that are necessary to become final. The results of the plebiscite need to be reviewed and the proposal needs to be published at the council website as new version of the charter.
:: AI for André: review plebiscite, ask the council to formally accept the proposal and publish as new version of the charter

:* André suggested to move the budget and funding procedures to the council website. Proposal was rejected, as the procedure is likely to be reworked.
:: AI for John: make budget procedures more visible
:: AI for Cor: draft a proposal for a more clear workflow

:* CorNouws asked what the status of the trademark proposal is
:: AI for Sophie: prepare a short note about trademark proposal for the next meeting

:* Sophie asked for more information about SPI
:: AI for Sophie: resend mail on SPI to the council list for comments
:: AI for Louis / Matthias: get treasurers of Team OOo e.V. and SPI in contact

=== Log ===
[[Community Council Log 20092201]]

==2008-11-04 (in-person meeting, Beijing OOoCon)==
===Attendees===
*Sophie Gautier, Stefan Taxhet, Louis Suarez-Potts (note taker), Cor Nouws, Martin Hollmichel, Matthias Huetsch, André Schnabel

*Pavel Janík and John McCreesh were unable to attend and were replaced by their deputies, Christian Lohmaier (lead, Website Project) and Jacqueline Rahemipour (lead, Germanophone Project)

===New Action Items===

* Louis to post new trademark policy synthesizing comments to trademark list by Monday.
**(not done: in process. Sophie and Louis will do this by end of Friday 14 November)
* (Louis or if not by end of Wed. someone else) OOoCon Agenda: to publish it as soon as possible, deadline (made now) Wednesday evening (-0400). Resolution: we used the agenda from the minutes; see below.
* Louis/whoever: contact Peter Junge to see if we can have a 1-1.5 hour session on last day where public can either ask questions raised previously or raise them there, as was done in Barcelona (done)

===Agenda (proposed items)===

*engagement/leadership: promoting it, with actual specifics to be detailed
**Hamburg meeting points to be included either in the above or as separate items
**Statement clarifying the CC's abilities, power, scope, ambition
*Elections: we need to go ahead with this, and can be discussed at Beijing. (It could also be discussed before then)
*Issues around 3.0 (more on this later); may be resolved prior to OOoCon and so may not be on the final agenda.

*The actual agenda as discussed followed a path that differed slightly from the scheduled one, and accommodated pertinent but unscripted points.

===Agenda (actual)===
*CC response to the public critique of the Project and of the OpenOffice.org 3.0 release
*Approval/disapproval of charter proposal drafted by André
*Trademark: policy and issues related to it
*Elections: initiate elections as soon as possible
*Engagement / leadership of community

*CC Response to public critique: Resolved, and the CC has endorsed that:
*Martin Hollmichel drafted a strong response; John and Louis will edit it and contact a journalist to publish it in a suitable journali
*MatthiasHuetsch (MHU) to ask Meeks what is he doing on the ESC as his public comments are destructive to the community and project and make it difficult for collaboration. The intent is to request that Meeks either change his behaviour or ask that he be replaced as the Novell representative, if indeed that is his role on the ESC.
*Collabnet issue under discussion. Sun, which pays for hosting with CollabNet, has a contract with that company and the consequences of the prolonged failure of CollabNet's servers during the release of 3.0 are still under discussion.

*Charter revisions: Unanimously approved charter changes and to send as soon as we can to the project leads, per protocol, allowing one week of discussion at most then send on to discuss, where it will also be allotted one week of discussion.

*Trademark:
**Review it–sophie and louis and produce by end of next week a synthesized document highlighting key points.

**Implications with major distributors. Work with Linux distributors who currently use or who are planning on using “OpenOffice.org” so that they may efficiently distribute the vanilla OpenOffice.org binaries and code (ie, that which is QA'd and downloaded from the site via our mirror network.)
**Trademark ownership in the US: CC unanimously requested Team OOo e.V for the the transfer of trademark to Sun Microsystems. After brief discussion, Team OpenOffice.org agreed. The funds from the sale to go to the community.

*Elections: Propose to have special election: Sophie and André to stand for election at soonest 23 November (after charter approval process is completed) and then two to three weeks later two more candidates.
**CC members to seek out nominees via the usual mail lists. Nominees are for the CC.

*Leadership/participation. Issues to consider:
**That we look out at as CC/community what can we expect and what is needed in the coming year.
**That we have a good idea of what areas of interest in the CC
**That we provide a community vision for the future of the project and its doings

*Thursday: CC to sketch out some questions and that we do need participation of others to make some effect. (done)

==2008-10-23 (Regular meeting)==

===Agenda===

* Louis: to publish the draft for trademarks
* Matthias and Sophie : to send the AB letter
* (work on charter - see further on on the agenda): became: OOoCon Agenda
* ESC query

===Attendees===

*Pavel Janík
*Sophie Gautier
*Cor Nouws
*André Schnabel
*Matthias Huetsch
*Martin Hollmichel
*Louis Suarez-Potts

* Absent: Stefan Taxhet, John McCreesh

New AIs:
*Louis to post new trademark policy synthesizing comments to trademark list by Monday.
*(Louis or if not by end of Wed. someone else) OOoCon Agenda: to publish it as soon as possible, deadline (made now): by Wednesday evening (-0400)
*Louis/whoever: contact Peter Junge to see if we can have a 1-1.5 hour session on last day where public can either ask questions raised previously or raise them there, as was done in Barcelona (done)

===IRC log===

*See [[Community_Council_Notes_20081023]]

===Discussion===

* Trademark: Discussion ongoing on trademark list. It has not reached such a point where we can publish it. Deadline was set for Monday 27 Oct. for Louis to send in a synthesized version. Louis also will send version to Sun legal for their opinions on the issue.

* Advisory Board update. Jim Parkinson, VP at Sun, sent a letter to the Advisory Board members disbanding the AB. The contents of the letter are below. We publish the letter with Mr Parkinson's permission.

<pre>
<quote>
Sun has decided to no longer pursue the instantiation of an Advisory Board for the following reasons:

-- I have learned that the Community Council will be discussing possible changes to its charter with the intention
of strengthening its relation to the OpenOffice.org Community and look forward to the outcome.

-- Many of the motivations driving the need for an Advisory Board no longer exist.
-- New LGPL v3 license is in place
-- A much better SCA that supports the communities needs
-- A much enhanced web experience and build environment with better tools

-- Overall a much better developer, contributor and user experience

-- The issue of a foundation has been tabled for at least 3 years, which was a major driver of the
Advisory Board Members.

My original concerns and the concerns of the board have been addressed, I strongly believe the right
course of action is to support the Community Council and Engineering Steering Committee.

Regards,

jp
</quote>
</pre>

* We will surely discuss the consequences of the letter's import at the OOoCon meeting in Beijing.

* ESC issue: "stand in" for Meeks. Matthias Huetsch raised the question if the CC needs to intervene (take a stand) regarding Meeks' "stand-in" in Beijing. Regular members of the ESC need to be confirmed by the CC but in temporary cases, no.

* OOoCon Agenda: We need to publish before OOoCon the agenda for CC meeting. Some discussion on wording of a key point, but the main point being to put into place strategies that promote community engagement and leadership.

*Items proposed:

**engagement/leadership: promoting it, with actual specifics to be detailed
***Hamburg meeting points to be included either in the above or as separate items
***Statement clarifying the CC's abilities, power, scope, ambition
**elections: we need to go ahead with this, and can be discussed at Beijing. (It could also be discussed before then)
**Issues around 3.0 (more on this later); may be resolved prior to OOoCon and so may not be on the final agenda. AI: Martin said he'd get a draft out by Friday evening.

*No other points raised and the meeting adjourned. (The summary of the points above does not reveal their complexity.)

==2008-10-03 (informal face2face meeting)==

===Agenda===

Informal meeting to discuss the current situation and the future of the council.

===Attendees===
* Martin Hollmichel
* Matthias Huetsch
* Cor Nouws
* Andre Schnabel
* Stefan Taxhet

===Minutes===
Only notes have been taken, see [[Community_Council_Notes_20081003]]

==2008-09-25==

===Agenda===

See the [[The OpenOffice.org Community Council Agenda]]

===Attendees===
# André Schnabel
# Martin Hollmichel
# Stefan Taxhet
# Cor News
# Matthias Huetsch
# Pavel Janick
# Sophie Gautier

===Minutes===
* Approval of the last meeting minutes

* Trademarks
Skipped because Louis was not present and the draft has not yet been sent

* Community year plan
Cor proposed to stall the plan until other urgent matters (trademark, council memberships and voting) are solved, and in the hope that this item will get enough real support later on. All agreed about this request.

* Update on Ask the AB to define clearly its role in OOo
The letter will be sent by Matthias and Sophie on behalf of the CC.

*Update on modifications of the CC charter
**Council Proposal is done.
**Election proposal has still two open points:

- 1st - electorate for Code Contributors. This will be discussed during the face 2 face meeting in Hamburg next week

- 2nd - better description of the "Schulze voting method". Andre will submit the question on dev@de and will provide a summary of the discussion with pros and cons explained more deeply. We will then take some weeks to prepare and we must be able to explain to non-mathematical people the process.

*Face2face meeting in Hamburg
October the 3rd, 17h00 is the date of the Council members meeting to work on the CC charter.

===IRC log===
See the [[Community_Council_Minutes_20080925]]

==2008-09-11==

===Agenda===
(missing)

===Attendees===

# André Schnabel
# Martin Hollmichel
# Stefan Taxhet
# Cor Nouws
# Matthias Huetsch (partly)

===IRC log===
See the [[Community_Council_Minutes_20080911]]

==2008-08-28==

===Agenda===
See the [[The OpenOffice.org Community Council Agenda]]

===Attendees===
*Stefan Taxhet
*Sophie Gautier
*Pavel Janík
*Matthias Huetsch
*John McCreesh
*Louis Suarez-Potts
*André Schnabel
Excused
*Martin Hollmichel
*Cor Nows

===Minutes===

*'''Trademarks'''
Louis and Sophie are working on since last week and are near to a final draft. There is still the issue that trademark for OOo is owned by Team OOo e.v. in the US and Sun is obtaining it elsewhere on a country by country basis.

'''AI''' for Louis : the draft will be sent and discussed by the CC (may be on GoogleDocs) before to be sent to the trademark list.

*'''Community Innovation Program'''
Over the last couple of weeks (if not longer) the committee went over the project lead suggestions, compiled, reviewed, discussed, and have finished today the final list of winners. This list will be sent to Sun, and they will do PR. Louis has to find out what sort of PR and how it will articulate with any PR we do here.

Winners and those who are not awards will be informed by Louis and Stefan in the next days but ask them not to publicize it until the time of the Sun PR.

Stefan said during a talk with peter junge about OOoCon we came up with the idea to ask the winners whether they are in Beijing (or why not) and would like to enter the stage. The members supported this idea and Stefan will go further with it.

'''AIs''' for Stefan and Louis: to notify the winners and losers and coordinate the PR with Sun.

*'''Elections'''
Louis needs help on this organization and Sophie proposed to help him. But we need to finish the Charter modifications before proceeding to new elections. A face 2 face meeting will be organized as soon as possible.

'''AI''' for Andre to finish the draft on the new charter proposal.

===IRC log===
See the [[Community_Council_Minutes_20080828]]

==2008-08-14==
===Agenda===
See the [[The OpenOffice.org Community Council Agenda]]

===Attendees===
* Sophie Gautier
* André Schnabel
* Martin Hollmichel
* Cor Nouws
===Excused===
* Pavel Janík
* Louis Suarez-Potts
* Stefan Taxhet
* John McCreesh
* Matthias Huetsch

===From the last meeting===
* Minutes of previous meeting for approval
* Actions from previous meetings

===Old Business===
* Election
* Trademark

===Minutes===
As we were only 4 members, we decided to do not vote during the session.

Minutes and agenda are approved.

*'''Community Year Plan'''
The [[Community_Council/Items/YearPlan|content]] is now on the wiki and details for the various items are set up.

'''AI''': Cor to send a mail to find who will work on what.

*'''Role of the AB in OOo'''
We do agree on the existence of the AB, so the letter will be worked out again with Cor and Sophie.

'''AI''': Sophie to send a new draft to Cor.

*'''Work on modification of the CC charter'''
The [[Community_Council/Items/Charter_Proposal|draft for the proposal]] is now on the wiki.
Martin will bring the discussion on the charter to the dev@ list in order to get more feedback from developers (core and non core developers) about the interest of that group to get involved in issues not related to source code.

A face to face meeting is proposed by Martin in order to improve the ideas proposed and find something better or newer. A subset of CC members concerned by the item will attend.

It has been decided that we continue to work on the actual proposal and that the meeting will be discussed on the discuss@council list.

'''AI''': Martin to bring the discussion on dev@

*'''Infrastructure budget'''
Positive replies from Florian Effenberger and Christian Lohmaier, this is adopted.

===IRC Log===
See the [[Community_Council/Minutes/20080814]]

==2008-07-24==
===Agenda===
See the See [[The OpenOffice.org Community Council Agenda]]

===Attendees===
*Hirano Kazunari
*Stefan Taxhet
* Sophie Gautier
* Pavel Janík
* Matthias Huetsch
* André Schnabel
* Martin Hollmichel
Excused
* Cor Nouws
* John McCreesh
* Louis Suarez-Potts

===From the last meeting===
* Minutes of previous meeting for approval
* Actions from previous meetings

===Old Business===
* Election
* Trademark

===Minutes===
'''Community year/growth plan'''

AI for Cor (with help by khirano and others): publish Community year/growth plan at the wiki and start working on details.

'''ask the AB to define clearly its role in OOo'''

AI for Sophie: resend the draft to all members.

'''Michael Meeks suggestion for CC charter modifications'''

Ai for Andre: summarize the discussion about CC charter modification.

'''Budged holders / approvers'''

AI for Stefan and Martin: propose a team for the infrastructure budget.
AI for Louis: propose approvers for common administration and Capital Budget.

'''Review and approve OpenOffice.org Community Council Payments Procedure'''

The procedure has been adopted as is with the remark that the CC will review the system after a year.

'''Update on CIP'''

28 submissions have been received with very different quality.
* Feedback from project leads will be gathered this week
* Vote will take place next week
* Final decision will then be published

AI for the committee: to update the pages to reflect the new deadline.

'''Community Contributors (mailing lists)'''
This was a request from Hirano in order to reach the moderators of the discuss and users lists of OpenOffice.org.

Stefan has explain how to reach those moderators.

===IRC Log===
See the [[Community_Council_Minutes_20080724]]

==2008-07-10==
===IRC Log===
See the [[Community_Council_Minutes_20080710]]

==2008-06-12==
===Agenda===
See the See [[The OpenOffice.org Community Council Agenda]]

===Attendees===
*Stefan Taxhet
*Sophie Gautier
*Pavel Janík
*Matthias Huetsch
*Martin Hollmichel
*Cor Nows
*John McCreesh
*Louis Suarez-Potts
*Absent: André Schnabel

===From the last meeting===
* Minutes of previous meeting for approval
* Actions from previous meetings

===Old Business===
*Louis to do elections: will go out for Council members review
*Summary of last time's discussion on trademark: to be done
*AI on expanding the elligibility list of project leads to include the actual managers of Incubator and NLC: to be done
*Sophie to write the minutes: done

===Minutes===
'''Update to OooCon 2008'''

*Done by John on the list: [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1646]

*In addition the private sponsor alias will be used again for sponsor discussions.
*Change of deadline and use of financial services are approved.

'''Community growth plan'''
Due to lack of feedback the draft is not ready yet.

Plan is:

*1. Cor to put the idea of the community growth plan to the council list for discussion
*2. that we (members) contribute our ideas, etc. over the next two weeks
*3. that we then bring the draft to the next meeting for vote (+1/-1)
*4. that someone who does not reply, is counted as + 1

'''Ask the AB to define clearly its role in OOo'''
*i.e what is the AB, what is its role, and how can we (or should we) inform the world of it.
*Sophie to send the draft of the letter asap.

'''Michael Meeks suggestion for CC charter modifications'''
*Louis and Cor to package the discussion that has took place in several lists and pursue it on discuss@openoffice.org only.
*Vote will take place on next meeting or if not ready on a subsequent one.

==2008-05-22==

===Agenda===
See the See [[The OpenOffice.org Community Council Agenda]]

'''From the last meeting:'''
* Minutes of previous meeting for approval
* Actions from previous meetings

'''Old Business:'''
* Election
* Trademark

'''New Business:'''
* Update on OOoCon 2008
* Community Growth Plan ("year plan")
* Ask the AB to define clearly its role in OOo

===Attendees===
* Stefan Taxhet
* Sophie Gautier
* Pavel Janík
* Matthias Huetsch
* André Schnabel
* Martin Hollmichel
* Cor Nows
* John McCreesh
* Absent: Louis Suarez-Potts

===Activity Items===
*'''AI''': Sophie to write the minutes
*'''AI''': All: read LS-P's proposal again; debate on list; come to next meeting ready to vote
*'''AI''': LS-P: organize the elections asap
*'''AI''': LS-P: circulate a trademark proposal for consideration on the list by the CC in time for the next meeting
*'''AI''': Cor,John, Stefan, Sophie or Pavel,Louis to work on a community growth plan
*'''AI''': Sophie to draft a letter asking for terms of reference to the AB

===Minutes===
*'''Approval of last minutes'''
** There was no minutes to approve

* '''Elections'''
** Louis proposed to add the leads of the category to the people eligible for a CC seat (beyond the project leads).
** We have agreed to defer Louis' proposal to change the rules to the next meeting to let members give it proper consideration.
** We agreed that elections now have to be done with the present rules

*'''Trademark'''
** As there is no proposal written yet to take in consideration, this item is reported to the next meeting

*'''Update on OOoCon 2008'''
** The CfP has gone out
** The AB won't be solicited any more as a sponsor and Peter will be contacting potential sponsors directly
** The team have come up with cool OOoCon logo including a cute panda
** Number of received proposals will be check off line

*'''Community Growth Plan'''
** The proposal is to have a team look at this and develop a proposal. Core members are Louis, John, Stefan, Sophie, Cor, plus any other community members they choose to involve

*'''AB to define clearly its role in OOo'''
** We action Sophie to draft a letter on the list so we can formally vote on it next meeting

===IRC Log===
See the [[Community_Council_Minutes_20080522]]

==2008-04-17==
See the [[Community_Council_Minutes_20080417]]. IRC log.

==2008-03-27==
See the [[Community_Council_Minutes_20080327]]. IRC log; minutes in the works.

==2008-03-11==
See the [[Community_Council_Minutes_20080311]]. It's an IRC log; minutes have not been posted yet.

==2008-01-31==
See the [[Community_Council_Minutes_20080131]]. It's an IRC log; minutes have not been posted yet.

==2008-01-24==
See the [[Community_Council_Minutes_20080124 IRC log]]; minutes have not been posted yet.

==2008-01-09==
See the [[Community_Council_Minutes_20080109 | IRC log]]; minutes have not been posted yet.

==2007-12-06==
===Agenda===
See [[The OpenOffice.org Community Council Agenda]]

* from last meeting:
* reviewing action items assigned
* status of criteria for certification
* adding nonvoting members
* trademark
* Fosdem 2008 funding
::at project leads List, LSP suggested to assign travel funds for fosdem 2008
::Eric Bachard asked for funding (in case his presentation is accepted). Cost for travel and will lodging be around 300 EUR (400 if booked short before the event)
* account of AB meeting
* new mission statement

===Attendees===
* Sophie Gautier (sophi)
* Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof__)
* André Schnabel (Thalion72)

Absent:
* Pavel Janík
* Matthias Huetsch
* Laurent Godard
* Louis Suarez-Potts
* John McCreesh

===Activity Items===

* Sophie: give more detailed update about certification criteria activities on the mailing list at the weekend
:: done: see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=1349 Sophie's mail]
* Andre: publish the Advisory Board meeting minutes (with comment that Zaheda did not comment the minutes yet) by the weekend
:: done: see [http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ProjectDocumentList?folderID=727&expandFolder=727&folderID=727 Documents & Files] - [http://council.openoffice.org/files/documents/126/4135/OOoAdvisoryBoard_01Nov2007_MeetingNotes_v4.pdf AB meeting minutes]
* Martin: send proposal for a budget to the council list by the weekend

===Minutes===

The IRC log for the last meeting is at [[Community_Council_Minutes_20071206]].

* because we had trouble to agree on a time for the meeting only three members were present. Present members agreed to go through the Activity Items and some of the Agenda Items.

* status of criteria for certification (Sophie)
** the work has just begun this week at the certification list
** we have first contributions at the certification issue (several people including Leif Lodahl and Franz Jakob are working on that)
** Sophie will report more details via council mailing list at the weekend

* account of AB meeting
** Sophie got the 4th version of the minutes today. Not all attendees have commented the minutes (Zaheda is missing)
** We are going to publish the minutes at the council website (AI for André)
** Info from Sophie: OOoSCA addendum draft should be available next week for review by the AB
** Info from Sophie: for information next AB meeting is on 17th of December

* funding / budget of Team OOo (AI from last meeting)
** Martin is working on a draft for a budget (income / spendings of Team OOo and how to use it within OOo)
** Martin will post the draft by the weekend to the council list

* new mission statement
** the new [[Mission Statement]] is actively discussed at the wiki.

* other agenda items (adding nonvoting members, trademark, Fosdem 2008 funding) have been postponed, as this would need more input from other council members

===Next Meeting===

Tentatively scheduled for Wednesday 2008-01-09

==2007-11-22==
===Agenda===
see [[The OpenOffice.org Community Council Agenda#2007-11-22]]
===Attendees===
* Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof__)
* Stefan Taxhet (stx12)
* Sophie Gautier (sophi)
* Pavel Janík (paveljanik)
* Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
* Laurent Godard (lgodard)
* Louis Suarez-Potts (louis_to)

* Absent: John McCreesh
* André Schnabel

===Action Items===

===Minutes===
The IRC log for the last meeting is at [[Community_Council_Minutes_20071122]]. Minutes to follow, to be located on the same page. Not all the agenda items were dealt with the time allotted, 1.5 hours. These items will be addressed the next meeting.

===Next Meeting===

==2007-10-17==
===Agenda===

===Attendees===

===Activity Items===

===Minutes===
Nothing significant happened on 17 October during the meeting: absentees. Work was done via mail list

===Next Meeting===
November 22, 14:00 UTC or some other friendly time

==2007-09-18==
Barcelona in-person meeting
===Attendees===
* Stefan Taxhet
* Sophie Gautier
* Pavel Janík
* Matthias Huetsch
* André Schnabel
* Marin Hollmichel
* Michael Meeks (stand-in for Laurent Godard)
* Louis Suarez-Potts (note taker)
* Absent: John McCreesh (conflicting event)

===Activity Items===
* '''AI''': Sophie to contact candidates for creating the support/certification criteria. Discussions can be held on the public certification list in documentation project.
* '''AI''': LSP: start elections for CCR
* '''AI''': LSP: ask at trademark list for reasons to actively defend trademark (would we loose trademark, if we do not defend it?)

===Minutes===
* Note: We used—or tried to—the wiki for the agenda this meeting. That did not work out.
* '''Elections'''
** Proposal: To start them immediately after OOoCon, beginning with the Community Contributor followed shortly (two weeks later) with other CC elections. As usual, we will announce elections to all the major lists.
** Action: accepted
* '''Trademark'''
** Synopsis of the issues regarding the trademark: status quo of team OpenOffice.org e.V. Owning US trademark and Sun the defending it elsewhere.
** question about reasons to sell trademark to sun arose. Possible reason: we would loose trademark if we do not defend it (Team OOo who actually owns the TM in US does not have the ressource to defend it)
** Proposal: to vote to continue discussions on the above point—status quo.--on the trademark list.
** Action: let's discuss it more on the list and find out precisely from Sun the legal issues at stake.
*'''Training and certification''' yes, this again.
** Proposal: to clarify the issue. ECDL and others want to certify users of OOo and the issue is, how do we participate. Drafting criteria has not worked out: no one wants to do it. But if we want to postion OpenOffice.org so that it s relevant, it seems needed.
** AI Sophie inquire about funding someone to drive the criteria for payment. The CC would provide the funds via Team OpenOffice.org.

===Other items===
* Do we need to change the structure and charter?
** Action: There was a fair amount of discussion on the issue and the answer was no. Of the things that were suggested (see below) the changes were procedural, not substantive. The issue was that we need to enjoin participation by the council members. It's too easy for things to go slack. Regarding a change of the Council due to new companies joining the community, it was discussed, that this would rather imply a new board instead of adding companies to the concil.
* After discussion, in which we even re-read the Charter, we agreed on the following:
** Timeframe must be stipulated in the message to [mailto:discuss@concil discuss@council] (if a council member fails to vode within the timeframe she is considered as "Absent from Council Participation" as written at pt. VI n of the Council Charter)
** We keep with consensus (if one member continously blockes votes, this might be considered as misconduct and dealt wiht according pt. IV, b, iv, iii of the coincil charter)
** Use wiki to post agenda, minutes
** Drop [mailto:agenda@council agenda@council] and use a wiki page, the last week's minutes; minutes would also be posted to the date titled page and linked to from the usual places, such as the OOo logon page.
* We also more tentatively agreed to have standard agenda items:
** finances
** community events
** And we agreed, provisionally to hold meetings once a month at minimum but also whenever there are pressing issues
* We also discussed the possibility of including new permanent members, in the same capacity as Stefan, but the conclusion was that though this may be in fact what occurs, it's at the moment hypothetical occasion,.